Heavyweight Boxing

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wlad didn't fight Aj like he did Fury,
He said himself before the fight he was changing his style as he got so much stick for not letting his hands go against Fury and that he was no longer champ and felt more free to attack, , The Wlad that fought AJ was the way he fought 10 years previous  the front foot,
Not taking anything away from AJ at all but he 100)% changed back to the old Wlad for the AJ fight ,|

But that is the kind of spoof about both fights....

Wlad was as cautious in both fights. Just that AJ, being  more offensively committed compared to Fury, (who did a lot of messing and posing and ducking and diving), made Wlad look a whole lot better on offense. Wlad was forced to either commit and fight, or get knocked out. Plenty of lull moments vs. AJ.

AJ stood right in front of Wlad and forced the pace and action. Fury did nothing of real offensive substance. Kind of spooked his way to a win, and spooked Wlad in the process. Plus they both cancelled each other out with their ridiculous hugging and holding inside. AJ didn't let that happen.

Just google it you'll see loads of pre fight interviews of Wlad saying his whole camp is about being way more aggressive, says he feels free because of losing the belt and will no longer be boring and safe as he has for years, Its straight from the horses mouth,

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Just google it you'll see loads of pre fight interviews of Wlad saying his whole camp is about being way more aggressive, says he feels free because of losing the belt and will no longer be boring and safe as he has for years, Its straight from the horses mouth,

That's fine....

I prefer to actually watch the action as opposed to automatically believe and listen to the boxers...

Parker a prime example....I am going to chase you around the ring, AJ...:rolleyes:

Wlad was still very cautious in that AJ fight. It cost him the fight. Had he more desire and fire to go for it he may well have gotten AJ out of there.

You need to consider and factor in AJ and Fury and their styles and ways of fighting when assessing Wlad's performances.

Fury made the fight and AJ made the fight. Two polar opposites. Wlad was going to look different in both fights. But he still was the same old cautious safety first scared to really go for it Wlad.

Punch stats as regards punches thrown were very similar for both fights.

I disagree with you ,
Power punch's thrown in a 12 round v Fury was 69
Power punchs throw in 1  rounds v AJ 137
That's 1 short of double in less rounds , so he was double as a aggressive like he said all build up he would be ,
Wald 100% changes his style, again like he promised before hand ,

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I disagree with you ,
Power punch's thrown in a 12 round v Fury was 69
Power punchs throw in 1  rounds v AJ 137
That's 1 short of double in less rounds , so he was double as a aggressive like he said all build up he would be ,
Wald 100% changes his style, again like he promised before hand ,

A power punch is any punch other than a lead jab....

Big deal.....

Overall he was still boxing very cautiously.....

Just that against Fury it was so bloody messy and scrappy that it gives the impression that against AJ he was a completely different animal. He absolutely was not.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Again is disagree , I think Wlad took the handbrake off against AJ but you entitled to your opinion ,

I have no issue with this view....I can understand it. I am merely trying to explain it, to better my position....:)

yourdeadwright wrote: »

His last lost was 10 years before it and it made him change style, With his new style of fighting he was unbeaten and looking unstoppable for a decade when he lost to Fury ,

who decided Wlad was the lineal champion though - the last lineal champion was Lewis, who retired.

Vitali was then described as the lineal champion as he was the last guy Lewis fought and was winning the fight when it was stopped; but obviously Wlad never fought Vitali. Fury's claim to be the lineal champ is pretty flimsy.

walshb wrote: »

That's just it as regards lineal....

Different people and bodies etc have their interpretation of lineal, and who may be lineal...

With all these titles and champions and super champions and interim champions no wonder it's flimsy...

I guess he's going by the Ring Magazine title - they went with Vitali then Wlad but even they say Fury is no longer the champ because of inactivity.

So Wlad thinks Joshua beats Fury easily. I can't agree with that, if Fury has not lost a step it will a tough task. Joshua will struggle as he has little to no head movement, against a bigger man who is quite agile for his size and can bob and weave. Joshua's power maybe enough to decide it, but if it were to go to points i think Fury wins a wide decision.

But you also have to factor in what Wlad experienced in the ring vs. Fury and AJ. He barely got touched by Fury the whole fight, but got hit a fair bit, and badly hurt vs. AJ. It shouldn't come as a surprise to see him believe that Fury won't beat AJ.

Yes, he may be saying this to stir it, but he may be genuine. It makes sense to me.

He likely believes that AJ absolutely gets to Fury, and has next to nothing to worry about as regards Fury's firepower.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

At the same time Wlad was afraid to let his hand go against Fury but not against AJ , Wlad didn't get near Fury but got to AJ and nearly finished AJ so it works both ways,
See it can be done boith ways ,

It can work both ways, but let's be real, it's boxing and the hurt game, and vs. Fury he didn't get one bit hurt. He experienced it against both,and nothing Fury did bothered him in the physical sense of being hurt.

Plus, I really doubt Wlad is thinking (because he had AJ hurt and ready to go) that somehow feather fisted Fury could do the trick...

The real likely way he could see Fury win is via a spoiling points win, but Wlad knows that AJ is not scared to commit and press and throw meaningful and spiteful punches for 12 rds, unlike him, which would really lessens Fury's chances at repeating the Wlad trick against AJ.

And he did let his hands go vs. Fury, at least as much, or close to the amount he let go vs. AJ (yes, we have been through the whole jabs/power punches lark).

Is it not possible that he is basing this off styles and how he sees Fury and AJ matching up?

I think I would be the exact same if I had the two fights that Wlad had.....

Wlad is likley kicking himself that he didn't show a little more courage vs. Fury.

He was gunshy, and it was not because he was getting hurt. He was simply boxing the way he always does, but this time it was against a taller and rangier man who was moving and making it very difficult for him. That is all it was.

Also how do you not understand the difference is Jabs and power punch's and calm Wlad fought the same way against AJ .,
Everyone who seen the fight could see Wlad was way more aggressive, as I said before double the power punch's is a huge difference ,If you can't recognise this there not much point speaking even a boxing newbee could see the difference,

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Also how do you not understand the difference is Jabs and power punch's and calm Wlad fought the same way against AJ .,
Everyone who seen the fight could see Wlad was way more aggressive, as I said before double the power punch's is a huge difference ,If you can't recognise this there not much point speaking even a boxing newbee could see the difference,

We discussed this. Came to a kind of agreement...

We all know the differences between a jab and a non jab. A power punch is any non lead jab...

So, I completely understand the difference. That is twice now I have explained that.

The issue here is Wlad's picks....

Simple: Makes sense to me that he would pick AJ based off what I saw. And I am sure he is basing it of what he saw/experienced and felt when facing both...

Nothing overly complicated here...

And maybe it is pointless to discuss seeing as one person is making up stuff that is just not there or true.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He's a veteran but you  think he just decided to fight in his shell for no reason give me a break ,

I have to pull you on this 'untruth' as well.....

Where are you pulling this from as regards me?

I just can't even see what angle your coming form to think he fought Fury and Aj in the same style,
Its just simply not true its not even an opinion he said so himself before and after he was way more aggressive,
 I'm not margining for the sake of it but I just don't get how you don't see it was different game plan and a way more aggressive style when he fought AJ,
You say power punches are anything but a jab ok fair enough , But he still threw double the amount of these shots in less rounds  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Surely that alone shows he changed his style ???? How can you even argue that, he has fought the guy with a different approach thus changed his style its very simple

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I just can't even see what angle your coming form to think he fought Fury and Aj in the same style,
Its just simply not true its not even an opinion he said so himself before and after he was way more aggressive,
 

Where did I say he fought them in the same "style?"

He was Wlad in both fights.....

Of course both fights were not the same as regards the aesthetics. That is because he was facing very different opponents.

BUT, it's clear to me that he was still the same Wlad. Still quite negative and cautious in both bouts....

Sure, he threw more in against AJ, but let's not make out that he was some kind of whirlwind. He had many many lull moments in the AJ fight.

Like I said, it probably cost him the AJ fight, and the Fury fight.

I think you are putting far too much emphasis on this compu box description of power punch......It gives the impression or visual of a man intent on KOing his opponent with mean intentions with every power punch....

Sprinter Sacre wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

But you also have to factor in what Wlad experienced in the ring vs. Fury and AJ. He barely got touched by Fury the whole fight, but got hit a fair bit, and badly hurt vs. AJ. It shouldn't come as a surprise to see him believe that Fury won't beat AJ.

Yes, he may be saying this to stir it, but he may be genuine. It makes sense to me.

He likely believes that AJ absolutely gets to Fury, and has next to nothing to worry about as regards Fury's firepower.

You do raise a good point and it's likely a big part of his reasoning. Reminds of lads who fought Floyd said things like it didn't feel like you were even in a fight. Andre Berto gave a great interview about saying when it was over he thought "wait was that it?" and that Floyd almost 'conned' his way to the win.

Fury did the same sort of thing against Wlad, just did enough and made sure no hostile exchanges would happen. He frustrated the life out of Wlad and Wlad felt the fight with Joshua was an actual proper fight. We could all think of certain parts of the Joshua fight, whereas I'd struggle to remember something significant from the Fury fight.

That Berto interview is very good ,really highlights that boxing is not a "fight" to Floyd, 
He has his little system and ways to win rounds and he does it to perfection , he has little interest in actually hurting his opponent he simply wants to win the round ,He thinks about every way to get the 10  ,

Hard to know. Despite what's been said about Wilder anyway read a short biography about him I got on amazon. Tough oul life did well to get to the level where he's talked about in this thread.:D

Larsso30 wrote: »

peter fury not being in tysons corner will be a big factor for me. Ben Davidsons corner work in saunders corner was appauling!

I heard he may still be in the corner come fight night,

Larsso30 wrote: »

really?? strange i had took it there was something of a falling out there?

Tyson said back in December there was no falling out, It was along the lines of he needed to branch out a little and needed a new voice for motivation to get the weight off, He finished the interview saying he'd do anything for Peter ,

squinn2912 wrote: »

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Any predictions for Haye v Bellew,
Bellew has had a great few years for someone who really isn't that good at all ,Eddie Hearn has done a great job promoting him,
Haye should have never came back to the sport he just doesn't have it anymore,

I was certain Haye would demolish him last time, but even before the injury his timing looked awful.

Perhaps he was injured all along, and was gambling on an early knockout as a result. If I remember rightly, the very injury he ended up with was rumoured 2-3 days before the fight, and he denied it. Regardless, all the talk of "the best Hayemaker ever" has been used too many times before without coming to fruition. I'd call a scrappy points win either way, leaning towards Haye.

It's a shame how Haye at heavyweight turned out. I always liked him but he was too small for HW at first, at least for the Klitschkos. He spent his best years out of the ring, then seemed to come back artificially big to compensate for his lack of natural size, which didn't suit him at all. I can't see him doing much more, I think he's banking on doing enough to get in with AJ for £££.

Like you’re reading my mind!!! I think another overhyped snorefest.

Not a fan of either but Haye on his day was a far more impressive boxer so for that reason alone I hope he win's , Nice to have one final show of what he was capable of,

Larsso30 wrote: »

nothing to do with eddie ffs

look Ortiz v Whyte been mandated today, it excludes Breazle which lends me to think rightly that wilder breazle is already done

the numbers are stupid that has been talked about, 100m fight my arse. 60/40 split my arse. wilder getting 12-15mill is imo good offer.

You sound like you work for Eddie
I have no doubt AJ wants wilder but it's Eddie who doesn't want to rush his cash cow IMO. He has to be seen to want to make the Wilder fight so gets around it by talking mandatories and making offers he knows wilder's team will refuse.
He's a skilled operator no doubt.