Heavyweight Boxing

walshb

AJ far cleaner and far more polished.

Nothing changes for me. Wilder I think finds AJs chin first to win via KO..

If AJ can survive the shot(s) he breaks Wilder down...

If it goes past 3 I’d be surprised..

Ajsoprano

I’d hardly call myself a boxing specialist. I watch a fair bit and have been reading this forum for a while but never had an account.

For some reason I really dislike joshua. I think he is profiting in a time where the only decent heavyweight who would get in with the greats of the last few years was over the hill and the next lad up was having an awful lot of personal problems.

His hype and english sky love in is rediculous. Wilder only arrived on my radar his last few fights and it was good last night to actually see him tested and he came out of it with flying colors.

I don’t think he got the better of the Cuban because Ortiz tired I think Ortiz tired because Wilder boxed in low enough gear to keep Ortiz in the fight. He could have came out throwing bombs but it was far riskier than the tactics he used.

Fair enough round 7 got a bit ropey but that could happen to anyone getting caught by Ortiz.


I’d love to see Wilder smack Joshua around the place but I don’t think it’s the type of fight you can call until it happens.

Exciting time for heavyweight boxing although not the most quality laden time.

walshb

Hardly AJs fault that one lad was nearing the end, and the other fell in love with his only credible win, resulting in him going on the tear and ballooning up in weight, getting smacked out of his head, and getting suspended for cheating..

And you dislike Joshua?

Ajsoprano

walshb wrote: »

Hardly AJs fault that one lad was nearing the end, and the other fell in love with his only credible win, resulting in him going on the tear and ballooning up in weight, getting smacked out of his head, and getting suspended for cheating..

And you dislike Joshua?

Not his fault but he’s not as talented as he gets credit for in my opinion. Is he any better than the likes of Frank Bruno? I think he’s just in the right place at the right time.

Totally not his fault but I find sky have a knack of making me dislike somebody.

Frank Bullitt

Just watched it there.

Wilder was troubled a good bit by the southpaw stance, but his straight rights are hellish.

I'd see AJ beating him though, as someone said he is was more of a refined boxer, cleaner hands and I'd say equal on power at least.

Morrison J

Am I the only one who doesn't see the Parker fight being as straightforward for Joshua as most seem to think? Joshua the favourite for sure but I think Parker will give him plenty of problems. He's better than his last couple of performances suggest.

Morrison J

Gintonious wrote: »

equal on power at least.

I'd have Wilder as the clear bigger puncher of the two personally. Biggest one shot power in the sport by a distance for me. Joshua has similar power to Ortiz imo which is a clear level below Wilder.

Ajsoprano

Morrison J wrote: »

Am I the only one who doesn't see the Parker fight being as straightforward for Joshua as most seem to think? Joshua the favourite for sure but I think Parker will give him plenty of problems. He's better than his last couple of performances suggest.

I find a lot of the time with heavyweight boxers they are exactly as their last few fights suggest.

Morrison J

Ajsoprano wrote: »

I find a lot of the time with heavyweight boxers they are exactly as their last few fights suggest.

Parker was well out of shape in his last few fights though. I'd imagine he'll be fully motivated and in shape for this one.

Parker in shape is a different animal. Lets him use his legs and really fast combinations without blowing out of his arse within a few rounds. I think he's a genuine test for Joshua.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

Am I the only one who doesn't see the Parker fight being as straightforward for Joshua as most seem to think? Joshua the favourite for sure but I think Parker will give him plenty of problems. He's better than his last couple of performances suggest.

It’s one of those style matches that I can’t quite envisage...

All depends on Parker’s chin...if it’s solid he will be a live underdog..

yourdeadwright

Wilder had stomach issues in the lead up to this , i think it serverly slowed him down in there , Also its the reason he came in so light ,
I think AJ beats him hes just to sloppy and has not engouh shot selection , Obviously u cant count hin totaly out due to the oower

Ajsoprano

Morrison J wrote: »

Parker was well out of shape in his last few fights though. I'd imagine he'll be fully motivated and in shape for this one.

Parker in shape is a different animal. Lets him use his legs and really fast combinations without blowing out of his arse within a few rounds. I think he's a genuine test for Joshua.

Sorry I usually just watch the fights and said a few posts back I’m no expert. Was he sick? I just find there’s a time in every heavyweights career where either they’ve been hit in the head too much or don’t mind being hit in the head anymore and they start turning up less fit each time or less fast.
It’s rare they roll their socks up and ever pull it out of the bag from there. I’m not saying it won’t happen I know very little of Parker apart from seeing him over the years beating a lot of lads who themselves seemed to have got to the unmotivated part of their career.

I do stress though I’m not a specialist just enjoy watching the sport. If he had the flu the last two fights I’d have no idea and could be talking through my hat.

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

It’s one of those style matches that I can’t quite envisage...

All depends on Parker’s chin...if it’s solid he will be a live underdog..

I'm sure his chin is fine. He's never been down or hurt. All the elite heavyweights (Fury, Joshua, Wilder) seem to have average chins, nothing glaringly weak but not granite. I doubt Parker's is any worse.

It's more about him now walking into any big shots for 12 rounds. If he's fit enough he should be able to keep at distance with his legs and use his handspeed to pick Joshua off at times, keeping it competitive. I think he'll have his moments at the very least.

walshb

Yes, but fine enough if AJ connects clean? AJ a very good hitter..

I think AJ takes him out within 5. Bullies him, gets to him, hurts him, roughs him up in close and knocks him out...All because whenever AJ lands he hurts Patker, which has Parker retreating and covering up.

Morrison J

Ajsoprano wrote: »

Sorry I usually just watch the fights and said a few posts back I’m no expert. Was he sick? I just find there’s a time in every heavyweights career where either they’ve been hit in the head too much or don’t mind being hit in the head anymore and they start turning up less fit each time or less fast.
It’s rare they roll their socks up and ever pull it out of the bag from there. I’m not saying it won’t happen I know very little of Parker apart from seeing him over the years beating a lot of lads who themselves seemed to have got to the unmotivated part of their career.

I do stress though I’m not a specialist just enjoy watching the sport. If he had the flu the last two fights I’d have no idea and could be talking through my hat.

I don't think he lives the life like Joshua does for example. His second most recent fight was against some random Romania binman who was never going to give him problems so I could see why he wasn't arsed to train that hard.

The Fury fight he should've been in better shape for but I can't answer for why he wasn't. I rate Hughie Fury though, it was an impressive win in the circumstances despite the fight being awful imo.

Parker is only 26 and hasn't really been in a marquee fight yet. He now has his big fight. If he's not motivated for this one then his heart just isn't in it enough. From what I've seen though he looks in shape already which is promising.

It's a bit like Saunders v Lemieux. When I saw Saunders on weight and in shape in a picture like 3 weeks before fight night I was certain he'd win and win easy. A fight he was going to have to use his legs in. It's the same with Parker here. If he can get that same motivation that Saunders did to get into peak shape he's got a chance.

akelly02

Morrison J wrote: »

I'd have Wilder as the clear bigger puncher of the two personally. Biggest one shot power in the sport by a distance for me. Joshua has similar power to Ortiz imo which is a clear level below Wilder.

I have a strong opinion that nobody hits harder than wilder , last night didn’t change my mind

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but fine enough if AJ connects clean? AJ a very good hitter..

I think AJ takes him out within 5. Bullies him, gets to him, hurts him, roughs him up in close and knocks him out...All because whenever AJ lands he hurts Patker, which has Parker retreating and close covering up.

Nobody in the division is going to take AJ's best shots. It's about not getting hit. Takam did a good job shelling up and riding most of Joshua's shots. He didn't have the output to cause Joshua any problems himself though. I think Parker has the handspeed to land eye punching shots on Joshua and win rounds, maybe catch him clean and cause the odd problem.

Don't get me wrong, I make Joshua a big favourite. I just think Parker can make good fight of it whereas most think he's a lay over job.

Pluto Planet

Ajsoprano wrote: »

Not his fault but he’s not as talented as he gets credit for in my opinion. Is he any better than the likes of Frank Bruno? I think he’s just in the right place at the right time.

Totally not his fault but I find sky have a knack of making me dislike somebody.

Yes, he would decapitate Bruno.

Ajsoprano

Pluto Planet wrote: »

Yes, he would decapitate Bruno.

Maybe but Bruno is well past his prime.

squinn2912

Morrison J wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but fine enough if AJ connects clean? AJ a very good hitter..

I think AJ takes him out within 5. Bullies him, gets to him, hurts him, roughs him up in close and knocks him out...All because whenever AJ lands he hurts Patker, which has Parker retreating and close covering up.

Nobody in the division is going to take AJ's best shots. It's about not getting hit. Takam did a good job shelling up and riding most of Joshua's shots. He didn't have the output to cause Joshua any problems himself though. I think Parker has the handspeed to land eye punching shots on Joshua and win rounds, maybe catch him clean and cause the odd problem.

Don't get me wrong, I make Joshua a big favourite. I just think Parker can make good fight of it whereas most think he's a lay over job.

I'm enjoying the debate on AJ vrs Parker. I've said since it was announced that I fancy Parker to surprise a few people. Winning I feel is just a step far for him but good on him for taking this fight and striking while the iron is hot. I agree that he didn't show what he can do in a few fights but he throws very fast and impressive combos. If AJ can bully him or if he tries to cover up then I think it's game over so he needs to go in there with confidence and take the fight to AJ. He has good feet and quick hands so if he can sting a few times early on and keep moving away from AJ then he could frustrate him and do some harm. The trouble is that it's very difficult to see him having the energy to sustain that approach the entire fight. He might have to have one big swing and hope for the best if his tactics aren't working. If he can land then he will hurt AJ.

normanoffside

If Parker comes in in the 230's I think we have a competitive fight.
There is absolutely no reason for him to be carrying the extra 10lbs he has been for the past 3-4 fights especially with Joshua apparently having dropped a stone himself; engine will be key for Parker.

squinn2912

Totally agree. He doesn't carry any more power and to win this he will need to rely on pace. There were a few comments earlier about Bruno.. I only got a glance but to say Joshua would decapitate him seems a bit out for me. Bruno gave Lennox plenty of trouble and got through to Tyson a couple of times when Tyson was a phenomon. Joshua might beat him and that's about it. I think his stamina is better but not hugely. Would he beat Lewis or Tyson?

Ajsoprano

squinn2912 wrote: »

Totally agree. He doesn't carry any more power and to win this he will need to rely on pace. There were a few comments earlier about Bruno.. I only got a glance but to say Joshua would decapitate him seems a bit out for me. Bruno gave Lennox plenty of trouble and got through to Tyson a couple of times when Tyson was a phenomon. Joshua might beat him and that's about it. I think his stamina is better but not hugely. Would he beat Lewis or Tyson?

You can’t say for sure but I doubt we’d regard him anymore than Bruno if he was around at that time.

Sky would have you believe he’d have beaten them both together.
But I heard bellew and haye getting mentioned in the same sentence as Lewis and Holyfield last night.

A lot of people remember Bruno getting beaten by Tyson but he also had a big long win streak at one stage and was hyped up English. Rick Hatton was going to body blow mayweather to death at one stage too.

I just think Joshua is lucky in the fact Tyson or Lewis or a prime klitchko isn’t around to stop the hype.

yogi37

Ajsoprano wrote: »

You can’t say for sure but I doubt we’d regard him anymore than Bruno if he was around at that time.

Sky would have you believe he’d have beaten them both together.
But I heard bellew and haye getting mentioned in the same sentence as Lewis and Holyfield last night.

A lot of people remember Bruno getting beaten by Tyson but he also had a big long win streak at one stage and was hyped up English. Rick Hatton was going to body blow mayweather to death at one stage too.

I just think Joshua is lucky in the fact Tyson or Lewis or a prime klitchko isn’t around to stop the hype.

I think your issue with Sky might be blurring your opinion of AJ. Sure, they get carried away with him (as they do with any UK sports stars) but I think he is a legitimate top class HW. Olympic Champ, HW world champ, unbeaten pro record all with KOs. Everyone said he was unproven, but after Klitschko scrap he has to get the credit he deserves. He seems to be putting his hand up and saying that he wants to fight all of the best thats out there, so he's not avoiding any fights right now. Parker should be another decent test but I think AJ has too much for him. The fight with Wilder if it happens should be a cracker.
When Wilder smells a finish he goes in wild and seems to overwhelm his opponent. He throws those massive windmills and if he lands one it should be enough to finish. The uppercut last night which finally finished Ortiz was pretty devastating but he threw a lot of massive punches before he got that one on the chin. I dont know if he will get the chance to open up like that against AJ.

Ajsoprano

It’s complete speculation and the type of conversation that’s been had in every generation. Tbh he could have bullied Liston for all you can prove without having them fight.
Klitschko was miles off a prime Klitschko. I think (and it’s just my opinion) a prime Bruno would have beat Klitschko at this stage of his career.
Honestly though there’s no point discussing it. He can only beat what’s in front of him.
I don’t think there’s any hope of Parker being allowed win though. The money is in the wilder aj fight. Last night and the next fight are just warm ups for it. I’ll say no more on that matter but the scorecards before wilders knockout I think shine a light on that.
You could imagine if Ortiz and Parker had of won and them trying to get a ppv out of the next match.

Urindanger

Can anyone explain Wilder's power? His legs are like toothpicks, his technique is pretty horrid, he's a big lad but nothing extraordinarily huge for a HW. It makes no sense how he's got such devastating power and in my eyes, quite clearly the best one punch power in the division and probably all of Boxing. You look across all the other divisions with notable knockout artists: Kovalev, Stevenson, Golovkin, Inoue, Spence etc. They all have great technique, some having flawless technique. They're all built very well too, aside from Kovalev who looks average enough but he's not a slob. Their power makes sense. Wilder's makes no sense at all.

megadodge

Urindanger wrote: »

Can anyone explain Wilder's power? His legs are like toothpicks, his technique is pretty horrid, he's a big lad but nothing extraordinarily huge for a HW. It makes no sense how he's got such devastating power and in my eyes, quite clearly the best one punch power in the division and probably all of Boxing. You look across all the other divisions with notable knockout artists: Kovalev, Stevenson, Golovkin, Inoue, Spence etc. They all have great technique, some having flawless technique. They're all built very well too, aside from Kovalev who looks average enough but he's not a slob. Their power makes sense. Wilder's makes no sense at all.

Leverage.

Ajsoprano

megadodge wrote: »

Leverage.

And oponants movement. He’s so wild and unorthodox a lot of the time you are leaning into his punches where normally you are out of danger. I think that’s why he looks so bad techniquewise it’s like his haymakers change direction midflight sometimes

yourdeadwright

I gotta say Ortiz is a fantastic boxer its just such a shame he isn't 10 years younger
I found it funny I was watching the build up and a lot of Sky's experts had Wilder winning due to Ortiz's age (37) same guys who hype up AJ after beating a 40 yearold 

Sebastian Dangerfield

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I gotta say Ortiz is a fantastic boxer its just such a shame he isn't 10 years younger
I found it funny I was watching the build up and a lot of Sky's experts had Wilder winning due to Ortiz's age (37) same guys who hype up AJ after beating a 40 yearold

They did infer multiple times that Ortiz is much older than he claims to be... but yes I agree