Heavyweight Boxing

megadodge

I'm not sure Wilder could make cruiser. That's another stone he has to lose. And he's always in excellent shape, so I fail to see where he could lose that much weight and have any kind of strength.

megadodge

Morrison J wrote: »

I can't understand why that fight is happening at all. All seems a bit fishy. Ortiz is a good fighter with great pedigree that is a genuine threat at the elite level but brings zero money to the table and thus no upside to fighting him. Wilder who has been protected his whole career and is 1 or 2 fights off the life changing payday a Joshua fight brings, had every chance to avoid him with the failed drug test but is for some reason giving him another chance. Wilder's camp must surely know something.

I think Ortiz is easily the better boxer but just think he must be absolutely shot to bits and Wilder's team must know it. There's no other way this fight happens. Don't think I'll be betting tbh.

I really agree with almost all this post, except I don't think Ortiz is shot to bits.

It makes no sense for someone so protected on the verge of getting an enormous payday to take on a possibly dangerous opponent for relatively small money. From the moment it was announced I was scratching my head. It's strange.

As I've been so critical of Wilder for so long I'll have to go with Ortiz on this, simply because he has good fundamentals, especially compared to Wilder. A quick counter left cross inside a Wilder jab at any stage could have Wilder in big trouble, that's assuming he doesn't catch Ortiz in the first place. I actually am interested in seeing this, though the above suspicions will be in the back of my mind.

Morrison J

megadodge wrote: »

I really agree with almost all this post, except I don't think Ortiz is shot to bits.

It makes no sense for someone so protected on the verge of getting an enormous payday to take on a possibly dangerous opponent for relatively small money. From the moment it was announced I was scratching my head. It's strange.

As I've been so critical of Wilder for so long I'll have to go with Ortiz on this, simply because he has good fundamentals, especially compared to Wilder. A quick counter left cross inside a Wilder jab at any stage could have Wilder in big trouble, that's assuming he doesn't catch Ortiz in the first place. I actually am interested in seeing this, though the above suspicions will be in the back of my mind.

I don't think he's shot to bits but it does make you wonder.

Could Ortiz be simply paid off and take a dive? I did think the Malik Scott KO looked very dodgy when it happened. I'm not one for conspiracy theories like but I've never felt so suspicious about a fight before. I'd be shocked if Wilder loses but I fully believe Ortiz is better than him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jws9K_RTCy4

megadodge

Morrison J wrote: »

I don't think he's shot to bits but it does make you wonder.

Could Ortiz be simply paid off and take a dive? I did think the Malik Scott KO looked very dodgy when it happened. I'm not one for conspiracy theories like but I've never felt so suspicious about a fight before. I'd be shocked if Wilder loses but I fully believe Ortiz is better than him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jws9K_RTCy4

Jesus, I forgot about that Malik Scott 'ko'. That's in the phantom punch territory.

squinn2912

Interesting points here.

CWs top or otherwise cannot beat the top HWs. One or two could perhaps win a "version" but that's the height of it.

Ortiz taking a payday wouldn't shock me either but I feel wilder has more about him. If Ortiz was going to do it then I'd have expected him to do it before 38.

On the subject of suspicions I felt some watching Wlad lose to AJ.

squinn2912

Ortiz has the same management company as AJ isn't that correct? That could be where the encouragement is coming from as it heightens the Wilder AJ fight for both if wilder looks good. We will know more tomorrow but yea looks very fishy

squinn2912

pac_man wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

On the subject of suspicions I felt some watching Wlad lose to AJ.

What suspicions? The fact that Joshua was able to get up from that right hand would debunk suspicions.

The suspicions that I felt the entire time in the build up and Wlad going easy when AJ was there to be taken out. He did well to get up but some remain. HW boxing is rife for cheating and who knows to where it extends

squinn2912

pac_man wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Ortiz has the same management company as AJ isn't that correct? That could be where the encouragement is coming from as it heightens the Wilder AJ fight for both if wilder looks good. We will know more tomorrow but yea looks very fishy

Ortiz was on a short term deal with matchroom but am nearly sure that's not the case now.

I think you're right on that. Eddie would be all over this if that were still the situation. I suppose if Ortiz takes an obvious dive etc then it reflects badly on his representatives too. Funny talk this since nothing of that type has happened just yet

yogi37

What time is this fight likely to get started? Sleep first & set an alarm or just stay up drinking cans and probably forget it all anyway?

squinn2912

Fair enough we differ a little bit on it.

squinn2912

Sounds about right. Bit of a nap at 10 then up round 3 and another nap 6-8 when it's all over. I'll probably be reading the reports and watching back the videos!

akelly02

Is this Ppv? Where can u watch it? Wilder is very light it’s unbelievable he hits so hard

megadodge

squinn2912 wrote: »

The suspicions that I felt the entire time in the build up and Wlad going easy when AJ was there to be taken out. He did well to get up but some remain. HW boxing is rife for cheating and who knows to where it extends

If you even thought about what you're saying for any length of time you'd realise how ridiculous you sound.

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why didn't he stay down in the fifth round when he was first floored. Why did he get up?

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why did he immediately hurt Joshua upon getting up. Why not take a few more punches and go down again for a straightforward loss?

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why didn't he 'calm down' after the fifth and tell himself "oops I nearly blew it there by hurting AJ, I better ease off". Why did he go out and poleaxe him the very next round?

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why did he keep throwing puches at AJ for the rest of the fight. What if he connected again like the 6th. AJ mightn't get up next time!

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why did he wait until the bloody 11th round to go down again? He could have saved himself a hell of a lot of hassle by staying down in the 5th.

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why did he get up twice in the 11th? Why not stay down and not take any more punishment?

And most of all, if Vlad was to be accused of throwing a fight why not accuse him of throwing the Fury fight, where he hardly threw a punch for 12 bloody rounds? How come that didn't arouse your suspicions? And if it did, why haven't you mentioned them before now? You'd have a much, much better case there.

walshb

Wlad was never a killer, at least not in the latter part of his career. There was no going easy. Wlad was being Wlad. Ultra cautious in his attacks...

titan18

I tell you this though: Ortiz definitely had more fundamental skills than Wladimir Klitschko. Wladimir may be a bit stronger, but it's hands down, Luis Ortiz has much more boxing skills than he did," Wilder told Sky Sports.

Wilder has taken a few too many punches if he honestly believes that.

Urindanger

Not a crazy statement at all. Wlad was a one two merchant who destroyed lads with his size, power and battering jab. Ortiz has fine boxing in him, puts his punches together well, he's a fantastic counter puncher and has smart movement. He's probably the most polished all round boxer in the division in all honesty.

The man in red and black

Morrison J wrote: »

I don't think he's shot to bits but it does make you wonder.

Could Ortiz be simply paid off and take a dive? I did think the Malik Scott KO looked very dodgy when it happened. I'm not one for conspiracy theories like but I've never felt so suspicious about a fight before. I'd be shocked if Wilder loses but I fully believe Ortiz is better than him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jws9K_RTCy4

Maliks Scotts head doesn't even seem to jolt backwards from the impact. Plus his eyes don't look glazed over like you might expect from a man that just got knocked down. He seems to remain lucid watching Wilder back up. Bizarre!

squinn2912

megadodge wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

The suspicions that I felt the entire time in the build up and Wlad going easy when AJ was there to be taken out. He did well to get up but some remain. HW boxing is rife for cheating and who knows to where it extends

If you even thought about what you're saying for any length of time you'd realise how ridiculous you sound.

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why didn't he stay down in the fifth round when he was first floored. Why did he get up?

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why did he immediately hurt Joshua upon getting up. Why not take a few more punches and go down again for a straightforward loss?

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why didn't he 'calm down' after the fifth and tell himself "oops I nearly blew it there by hurting AJ, I better ease off". Why did he go out and poleaxe him the very next round?

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why did he keep throwing puches at AJ for the rest of the fight. What if he connected again like the 6th. AJ mightn't get up next time!

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why did he wait until the bloody 11th round to go down again? He could have saved himself a hell of a lot of hassle by staying down in the 5th.

If Vlad was going to throw the fight why did he get up twice in the 11th? Why not stay down and not take any more punishment?

And most of all, if Vlad was to be accused of throwing a fight why not accuse him of throwing the Fury fight, where he hardly threw a punch for 12 bloody rounds? How come that didn't arouse your suspicions? And if it did, why haven't you mentioned them before now? You'd have a much, much better case there.

Settle down.

Some compelling points there. Perhaps given that he was over 40 at the time it's not so much a conscious thing that he took his foot off the gas and allowed AJ back into it.

On fury during the build up he was at all sorts of antics with ring ropes etc to try to put Fury off so he'd hardly throw it after that. He fought badly and had an off night at an inopportune time but I don't think he threw his belts away. Don't know if it's in the public interest to head back into that discussion again the lads ironed it out well.

Isn't his name Wlad?

megadodge

squinn2912 wrote: »

Settle down.

Some compelling points there. Perhaps given that he was over 40 at the time it's not so much a conscious thing that he took his foot off the gas and allowed AJ back into it.

On fury during the build up he was at all sorts of antics with ring ropes etc to try to put Fury off so he'd hardly throw it after that. He fought badly and had an off night at an inopportune time but I don't think he threw his belts away. Don't know if it's in the public interest to head back into that discussion again the lads ironed it out well.

Isn't his name Wlad?

So it's not in the public interest to discuss that, but it is in the public interest to bring up completely nonsense claims that literally nobody else on the planet agrees with?

His name is Wladimir. Just as 'AJ's name is Anthony. I didn't realise using abbreviations would confuse you so much. I'll bear it in mind in future.

squinn2912

megadodge wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Settle down.

Some compelling points there. Perhaps given that he was over 40 at the time it's not so much a conscious thing that he took his foot off the gas and allowed AJ back into it.

On fury during the build up he was at all sorts of antics with ring ropes etc to try to put Fury off so he'd hardly throw it after that. He fought badly and had an off night at an inopportune time but I don't think he threw his belts away. Don't know if it's in the public interest to head back into that discussion again the lads ironed it out well.

Isn't his name Wlad?

So it's not in the public interest to discuss that, but it is in the public interest to bring up completely nonsense claims that literally nobody else on the planet agrees with?

His name is Wladimir. Just as 'AJ's name is Anthony. I didn't realise using abbreviations would confuse you so much. I'll bear it in mind in future.

I made that point jokingly after all the discussions already about AJ and Fury's win over Wlad. I acknowledged the points you made. There isn't a lot suspicious about the AJ Wlad fight but I do think Wlad left it behind. You're well charged up tonight. Enjoy the fights.

squinn2912

Didn't make the alarm last night. Big win fir Wilder and it will have done him the world of good to come through a crisis.i think he will fight once more before fighting AJ towards the end of the year or early 2019.

The weight didn't make much difference in the end. Ortiz fought very well and had himself in good shape but ultimately he tired. He's not shot but he could well go back to being avoided. Not too impressed by the boos but that has to be a concern for wilder. What did you guys make of it?

akelly02

Think wilder done well to survive rd7 , then he did what he does to everyone, knock them out , whilst looking sloppy in the process

squinn2912

He looks very untidy when rushing in for the kill (often far too early) but very hard to defend against. If josh got him in trouble you'd have to think it's good night but yea I think it's certainly time now for him to get credit

MD1990

Wilder has a better chin & more power than Joshua.

Joshua is a better boxer though. I would slightly favour Wilder despite his poor boxing skills.

squinn2912

MD1990 wrote: »

Wilder has a better chin & more power than Joshua.

Joshua is a better boxer though. I would slightly favour Wilder despite his poor boxing skills.

It would be an intriguing contest. I agree with your points but I think Joshua has more of a game plan to work with. Wilder would do what wilder does but Joshua can change it up. If he improved his footwork then I'd expect him to win but if wilder could get through then I don't think he's agile enough to get away.

It might not be the 3 round gunslinger people talked about though and if fitness/stamina came into play I'd give wilder the advantage

anthonyjmaher

Ortiz started to tire in the later rounds. Before that Wilder reminded me of Eubank against Groves, just completely out of ideas, all of his weapons being nullified. But when Ortiz tired he wasn't able to nullifiy him as he did earlier in the fight, and Wilder eventually got through. Very enjoyable fight.

Henno30

It looked like a very mature performance from Wilder up until the 7th. Much more patient than usual and had waited out his opportunity nicely. But it descended into the usual Wilder stuff after that. I want to like him but my god is his style ugly to watch.

Proving he has a chin is a big deal. AJ can outbox him for sure, but if he can't knock him out he's going to be defusing a bomb all night. Wilder can get anyone in trouble with that right.

walshb

Wilder’s chin? Was it proved last night? Badly hurt from a decent right hook...Ortiz did not really connect flush and hard on the follow up..

I would not call the chin solid based off last night...

Pluto Planet

Very good fight last night, two top heavyweights, ashamed to say it was my first time watching Ortiz fight.

The fight could have gone both ways (bit like Wlad and AJ), it looked like Wilder was saved by the bell in the seventh. Fair play to him for surviving nonetheless and coming out on top. Let's hope the Wilder Joshua fight gets made asap, will be a great fight.

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

Wilder’s chin? Was it proved last night? Badly hurt from a decent right hook...Ortiz did not really connect flush and hard on the follow up..

I would not call the chin solid based off last night...

Who really knows for sure about the chin but more importantly he showed he has the dog in him to tough it out when it gets difficult which is arguably more important.

Joshua-Wilder is a more difficult fight to call then I initially thought I think. Wilder is clearly the biggest one shot puncher in the sport and Joshua can be hit and hurt. You'd have to favour the superior boxer in Joshua especially given his best punch is the counter right but Wilder is much more live in the fight than I previously thought.