Heavyweight Boxing

squinn2912

Read that book. Fantastic. Larry Holmes seemed to have a bit of a chip!

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

Read that book. Fantastic. Larry Holmes seemed to have a bit of a chip!

Always had I felt. Tried to disguise it here and there with backhanded compliments. Just jealous I guess.

Foreman was the genuine one who really loved and admired Ali..

Frazier just flat out disliked him...kind of understand that.

Cooper was praising, but he, like Holmes I always felt liked to get digs in...

squinn2912

While since I read it but am I right in saying there’s a great section from Ernie Shavers?

Cooper comes across so well. Understandable popularity.

He tortured poor Frazier I’m happy he had that unmerciful left hook on 2 counts. Deserved vengeance for Frazier and the way GOAT just rolled around and up. What a hit.

Yea on foreman I think it took him some time but he reflected so well on it.

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

While since I read it but am I right in saying there’s a great section from Ernie Shavers?

Cooper comes across so well. Understandable popularity.

He tortured poor Frazier I’m happy he had that unmerciful left hook on 2 counts. Deserved vengeance for Frazier and the way GOAT just rolled around and up. What a hit.

Yea on foreman I think it took him some time but he reflected so well on it.

Yeh, the Shavers and Lyle sections are excellent...

Mother of god, Leon Spinks is some tragedy...

squinn2912

I loved the opening on Tunney Hunsaker. I was about 16 when I read it and was obsessed by Ali (and Elvis curiously!). I vividly remember reading about TH and his wife and he sounded like a lovely old granda. It was the first reference I remember to the notion of ‘fighting weight.’ TH was apparently not far away from his even at that age.
Working as an Irish teacher I often do quizzes on trips etc. I’m always tempted to put the question of who was Ali’sfirst pro opponent... then I think again... I couldn’t bare to read answers like Tyson or mcgregor!

FTA69

Great show. George Chuvalo is some lad to talk as well, great character and it’s awful how he suffered in later life.

walshb

Chuvalo is so articulate.

squinn2912

Right prediction time. I’m saying Price with the shocker in round 4 and AJ to have a little too much round 9.

TheChosenOne_

Parker to stop Joshua in round number 11.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Always had I felt. Tried to disguise it here and there with backhanded compliments. Just jealous I guess.

Foreman was the genuine one who really loved and admired Ali..

Frazier just flat out disliked him...kind of understand that.

Cooper was praising, but he, like Holmes I always felt liked to get digs in...

Do you really believe that about Holmes? Always came across as a genuine, sincere friend and fan of Ali to me. Maybe I'll reconsider when I watch that doc.

As regards Ali, have just finished Jonathan Eig's Ali: A Life and while I wasn't sure there was much more to say on the subject, it's an engrossing and inspiring read. Not sure if there's much or anything new in it, but Eig writes beautifully and brings the whole incredible story together really well. Recommended.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Do you really believe that about Holmes?

From all I have read and heard, yes I believe it...

Sure, he probably liked him somewhat, but there was jealousy and resentment there, and he didn’t hide it from me..

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

From all I have read and heard, yes I believe it...

Sure, he probably liked him somewhat, but there was jealousy and resentment there, and he didn’t hide it from me..

Ah so you had the advantage of looking into his eyes as he explained it to you, that explains it so

Nah, seriously, to me Holmes was always one of the good no bullsh!t boxing guys, i believe it was genuinely very upsetting for him to have to have beaten Ali up that night in Vegas. Maybe i'm giving him too much credit, but i'll watch that doc with an open mind.

On a related subject, one of my favourite ever sports articles was about a guy who, while trying to get the autograph of every Ali opponent (about 50 in all I think) managed to get them all except for that of Sweet Jimmy Robinson who was a late stand in for one of Ali's early fights. They tracked him down to Miami but never found him, Sweet Jimmy had just disappeared off the face of the earth. Great story and I think they made a doc about it, though have never seen it myself.

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Do you really believe that about Holmes?

From all I have read and heard, yes I believe it...

Sure, he probably liked him somewhat, but there was jealousy and resentment there, and he didn’t hide it from me..

I agree on Holmes. I think he respected Ali but couldn’t stand that he lived in his shadow, even after beating him. I think Holmes was a victim of a lull era in boxing even though he reigned supreme. In ways it is a point that he never got the recognition merited.

Joe_ Public

squinn2912 wrote: »

I agree on Holmes. I think he respected Ali but couldn’t stand that he lived in his shadow, even after beating him. I think Holmes was a victim of a lull era in boxing even though he reigned supreme. In ways it is a point that he never got the recognition merited.

I think you've put that very well. I think he both respected and genuinely loved Ali, but did have issues with how he himself was portrayed. Would hardly be human if he didn't. Was he jealous? Possibly, but I dont think that begins to describe the complexity of the feelings he had.

The Nal

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Do you really believe that about Holmes? Always came across as a genuine, sincere friend and fan of Ali to me. Maybe I'll reconsider when I watch that doc.

squinn2912 wrote: »

I agree on Holmes. I think he respected Ali but couldn’t stand that he lived in his shadow, even after beating him. I think Holmes was a victim of a lull era in boxing even though he reigned supreme. In ways it is a point that he never got the recognition merited.

Holmes hates the fact that he is so underrated, which he is. But the guy that came after Ali was never going to be liked. He reigned in an era that was low on real quality and a lot of the top quality guys he beat were well past their prime.

He was 48-0 though at one stage, 20 title defenses and he didn't lose a fight until he was 36. Certainly one of the top 10 heavyweights ever. A top 10 that doesn't include Tyson btw....;)

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Ah so you had the advantage of looking into his eyes as he explained it to you, that explains it

Well, for me I didn’t didn’t see a real genuine love and respect and admiration..

It always came across to me as a bit disingenuous, forced and loath.

He didn’t have to look into my eyes. I’m a pretty good judge of character and body language, and can interpret words quite well...

Johner

pac_man wrote: »

I see Wilder is up to his old tricks again trying to stay relevant by "wanting a body" on his record. A gob****e.

Just saw the interview there, sickening talk from him. :mad:

Naos

walshb wrote: »

Not flabby per se, just a little “I don’t know,” soft?

Soft? He has a visible six pac weighing in.

squinn2912

Poor Price. He was doing well in that fight but the quality of Povetkin’s work was very evident. He was standing stunned for an age before that ko. Feel sorry for him no doubt the online backlash will be brutal

squinn2912

Right guys what you think? Firstly Parker had much more than most expected. AJ was better he had more attributes but Parker did much more than avoid the ko. I thought the scorecards were a bit wide but convincing victory.

Henno30

Parker did next to nothing. There's only so much credit you can give him for not getting knocked out. But more disappointed with AJ. Not a lot going on upstairs on tonight's evidence. Had no ideas at all.

Morrison J

squinn2912 wrote: »

Right guys what you think? Firstly Parker had much more than most expected. AJ was better he had more attributes but Parker did much more than avoid the ko. I thought the scorecards were a bit wide but convincing victory.

As long as Parker came in fit he was never going to get banged out in a few rounds. He's a smart fighter who moves very well. Been underrated all week by many.

Scores were wide but clear correct winner I agree.

Fury will be loving what he was seeing there though. Head movement, faints and a snappy jab beats Joshua.

squinn2912

Joshua won that because he had it all in his favour. He’s far bigger and stronger and could hold the ring. Parker did get to him and when it wasn’t a blast out he did look short of ideas but always in command.
There’s a certain type of fan who thinks it’s ko or sh*t. There’s more to it than that for me. Parker fought his fight and the game plan worked to an extent. He could’ve gone for broke though as a champion he allowed the belt go a bit easy.
A fit fury wins that type of fight every day of the week.

miocicmma

I had AJ winning the fight on my score card but not by as wide a margin as the judges at ringside. It was good boxing bout, Not a particularly exciting fight but a good technical contest, The Judges clearly felt that Parker wasn't doing enough in the rounds to win them and, AJ was on the front foot, and with the home town element, I can see how the judges would give most of the 50/50 rounds to AJ.

Apparently Wilder was going to travel if he could get in the ring with AJ after the fight. Something that would have been exciting, Matchroom turned down his request, probably a power move, bur still a missed opportunity to promote the super fight.

squinn2912

Totally. Eddie was spoofing about that as well. When Wlad could do it surely wilder is entitled. Now the only other man with a title.
Here’s a question; how would wilder and Povetkin do vs Joshua?

normanoffside

squinn2912 wrote: »

Totally. Eddie was spoofing about that as well. When Wlad could do it surely wilder is entitled. Now the only other man with a title.
Here’s a question; how would wilder and Povetkin do vs Joshua?

Just like Klitschko was, AJ would be all wrong for Povetkin. Not sure why Eddie is avoiding that one.

squinn2912

Just like Klitschko was, AJ would be all wrong for Povetkin. Not sure why Eddie is avoiding that one.[/quote]

You think? I’m not so sure. I had Povetkin down as a washed up roid head. His konof price tonight was brutal. Serious power. He’s very quick too. Joshua has the jab for him though. Price barely threw it

normanoffside

squinn2912 wrote: »

You think? I’m not so sure. I had Povetkin down as a washed up roid head. His konof price tonight was brutal. Serious power. He’s very quick too. Joshua has the jab for him though. Price barely threw it

Clean Povetkin is not really all that powerful. Joshua would Jab his head off all night and catch him with the big right hand when he tries to come in.
I'd see a complete rematch of the Klitschko vs Povetkin fight.

squinn2912

Then he should take it to get a good ko win

normanoffside

squinn2912 wrote: »

Then he should take it to get a good ko win

It looks like Eddie now wants the Wilder fight.
Last week Whyte was calling out Wilder, this week Povetkin

thierry14

squinn2912 wrote: »

Just like Klitschko was, AJ would be all wrong for Povetkin. Not sure why Eddie is avoiding that one.

You think? I’m not so sure. I had Povetkin down as a washed up roid head. His konof price tonight was brutal. Serious power. He’s very quick too. Joshua has the jab for him though. Price barely threw it

You could be right as Povetkin is decent and caused a not too far out of prime Wlad problems

I think myself it's the similar sized giants like Wilder and Fury that will do Joshua

Wlad had the power, size, skills but was 10 years too old fighting Joshua, would have ko'd him in his prime

Wouldn't mind seeing Whyte vs Parker or Parker vs Povetkin

The man in red and black

squinn2912 wrote: »

Here’s a question; how would wilder and Povetkin do vs Joshua?

Do you mean in a WWE style triple threat match?

normanoffside

walshb wrote: »

Bit off topic but if any of you have an hour or two to spare get and watch Facing Ali, a 2009 doc. Really interesting, with a lot of info and clips even Ali fans (like myself) wouldn’t have seen/known...

Thanks for that, a great recommendation. Watched it tonight.
I always thought that Frazier was a kind hearted yet sensitive soul. I actually thought Holmes comes across well too.

Found this online: http://www.veoh.com/watch/v19615574nDFa9ynM

squinn2912

The man in red and black wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Here’s a question; how would wilder and Povetkin do vs Joshua?

Do you mean in a WWE style triple threat match?

Hahahaha well done! I think he beats Povetkin in 6 and as argued above; the big guys with movement are likely to get to AJ. No one out there to frighten him though

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

Hahahaha well done! I think he beats Povetkin in 6 and as argued above; the big guys with movement are likely to get to AJ. No one out there to frighten him though

If Povetkin lasts 6 surely he has a “chance” to KO AJ, bearing in mind that AJs chin is still up for debate. Povetkin can surely at least get to it in 6 rds?

squinn2912

THE way he throws yea that’s a fair assumption. He’s excellent at those overhand shots so heavy got (my least favorite phrase) a puncher’s chance. But within 6 could be round 2. I honestly don’t see him bothering AJ but I’d like to see that fight

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Hahahaha well done! I think he beats Povetkin in 6 and as argued above; the big guys with movement are likely to get to AJ. No one out there to frighten him though

If Povetkin lasts 6 surely he has a “chance” to KO AJ, bearing in mind that AJs chin is still up for debate. Povetkin can surely at least get to it in 6 rds?

How would you see that fight unfold yourself?

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

How would you see that fight unfold yourself?

AJ by KO In 3-4 rds by keeping AP on the back-foot and just out of KO range..

I think APs chin is good, but not good enough to withstand AJs attacks.

But an AP surviving and attacking back to get a KO would not really surprise me...

AP with couple more inches height and reach and he is a potential winner..

normanoffside

Wilder has apparently agreed terms for the Joshua fight in the summer

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

How would you see that fight unfold yourself?

AJ by KO In 3-4 rds by keeping AP on the back-foot and just out of KO range..

I think APs chin is good, but not good enough to withstand AJs attacks.


But an AP surviving and attacking back to get a KO would not really surprise me...

AP with couple more inches height and reach and he is a potential winner..

Very similar prediction to my own. Early to mid stoppage for AJ

ebbsy

Fury being out of action for 3 years...I believe he will only take one warm up fight before AJ.

A few years ago it would have been a great fight. Now ? I think AJ would stop him.

normanoffside

selectamatic wrote: »

Where dya see that? Twitter?

Not a done deal yet but....https://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2018/04/02/exclusive-deontay-wilder-accepts-anthony-joshua-challenge-ready/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

selectamatic

normanoffside wrote: »

Not a done deal yet but....https://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2018/04/02/exclusive-deontay-wilder-accepts-anthony-joshua-challenge-ready/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

Ay just seen that now. Cheers

walshb

normanoffside wrote: »

Not a done deal yet but....https://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2018/04/02/exclusive-deontay-wilder-accepts-anthony-joshua-challenge-ready/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

Ah, fook it...

You mean we’re not gonna’ get AJ-Chisora now?

normanoffside

walshb wrote: »

Ah, fook it...

You mean we’re not gonna’ get AJ-Chisora now?

Chisora to fight the winner?

walshb

normanoffside wrote: »

Chisora to fight the winner?

Yes! Ali-Frazier eat your heart out.....

Morrison J

https://twitter.com/EddieHearn/status/980888318299770880

Reading between the lines I reckon that means we get Wilder-Breazeale next. IBF called Pulev-Breazeale last week so assume Breazeale turned that down to fight Wilder and Whyte is next man up.

I reckon we get:

Whyte v Pulev
Wilder v Breazeale
Joshua v Miller

squinn2912

Morrison J wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EddieHearn/status/980888318299770880

Reading between the lines I reckon that means we get Wilder-Breazeale next. IBF called Pulev-Breazeale last week so assume Breazeale turned that down to fight Wilder and Whyte is next man up.

I reckon we get:

Whyte v Pulev
Wilder v Breazeale
Joshua v Miller

I think you might just be right. First two look likely. Miller I’m not so sure about. Povetkin could come back to England/Wales to fight AJ. Miller gets wiped off the floor in that fight for me. He won’t want to travel either. I certainly wouldn’t pay to see that unless the undercard was insane. Aj Povetkin though would be another story. At 38 I think he would be easy enough to talk to about purse

Morrison J

squinn2912 wrote: »

I think you might just be right. First two look likely. Miller I’m not so sure about. Povetkin could come back to England/Wales to fight AJ. Miller gets wiped off the floor in that fight for me. He won’t want to travel either. I certainly wouldn’t pay to see that unless the undercard was insane. Aj Povetkin though would be another story. At 38 I think he would be easy enough to talk to about purse

Miller in NYC I reckon. Get more US eyes on Joshua to build the Wilder fight.

If Joshua stays fighting in the UK I'd say Povetkin is likely alright.

yourdeadwright

Aj beats AP easy, early Ko ,
I for a second didn't buy that Hearn or Aj really want the Wilder fight, I noticed AJ didn't say once he wanted the fight, When directly asked he froze for a second and then tried to make a joke by shouting what Whyte did last week, I know he said he'd knock him spark out but that was in reference to IF the fight happens,
Anyone else find it odd Hearn keeps going on that Wilders camp haven't approached us, Surely Hearn should be approaching them if they really want that last belt ?