Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

lapua20grain · 13-10-2020 8:11am

sparrowcar wrote: »

Years?
It was only closed for a few months

He said that the first commercial plane came over his house in years not that the runway was closed for years read the post.

sparrowcar · 13-10-2020 9:59am

lapua20grain wrote: »

He said that the first commercial plane came over his house in years not that the runway was closed for years read the post.

I read the post thanks. Its down to interpretation but its a fair assumption to make that he was suggesting a commercial plane had not come over his house in years due to 16/34 being closed for that time.

lapua20grain · 13-10-2020 10:03am

sparrowcar wrote: »

I read the post thanks. Its down to interpretation but its a fair assumption to make that he was suggesting a commercial plane had not come over his house in years due to 16/34 being closed for that time.

Not how I interpreted it but each to their own i suppose

sparrowcar · 13-10-2020 10:03am

lapua20grain wrote: »

Not how I interpreted it but each to their own i suppose

Exactly

Brendan Bendar · 13-10-2020 2:01pm

sparrowcar wrote: »

I read the post thanks. Its down to interpretation but its a fair assumption to make that he was suggesting a commercial plane had not come over his house in years due to 16/34 being closed for that time.

That’s how I saw it.

Jack1985 · 13-10-2020 10:27pm

Anyone know of any updated satellite imagery for Dublin Airport? Looking to have a look at the progress over the last few months.

Gaoth Laidir · 13-10-2020 10:36pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Anyone know of any updated satellite imagery for Dublin Airport? Looking to have a look at the progress over the last few months.

This seems to be fairly recent.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=3271b7a5-f9ad-43c8-ac56-b1fc10f16d1b&cp=53.436068~-6.264971&lvl=15&style=h&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

Rojomur · 13-10-2020 11:44pm

Apologies for any confusion on my post. I could offer this by way of explanation. I live just off malahide Road under flightpath of runway 34. That post was written seconds after id heard the first plane..a ryanair b737 flying overhead and i suppose i was just rreacting unexpectedly. I had no idea despite following this thread that the runway was now open. My reference to 'years' was just an initial reaction to what felt like that. When RW 10/28 was being resurfaced a few years ago the planes were coming thick and fast from 11pm until the US first flights landed sometimes as early as 4.30am. It operated when the wind dictated after that and then the north runway construction commenced...it now seems lime an age since i heard regular night flights flying over the house....subsitute "years" from my initial post with a "while" and youll catch my drift...

HTCOne · 14-10-2020 12:02am

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

This seems to be fairly recent.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=3271b7a5-f9ad-43c8-ac56-b1fc10f16d1b&cp=53.436068~-6.264971&lvl=15&style=h&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

You can still see a EI 757 parked remotely off pier D, so 6 months old at least!

Jack1985 · 14-10-2020 12:06am

HTCOne wrote: »

You can still see a EI 757 parked remotely off pier D, so 6 months old at least!

Lot's of aircraft moving too :P, still a little progress visible!

sparrowcar · 14-10-2020 12:15am

Jack1985 wrote: »

Anyone know of any updated satellite imagery for Dublin Airport? Looking to have a look at the progress over the last few months.

Have you seen these?

Jack1985 · 14-10-2020 12:17am

sparrowcar wrote: »

Have you seen these?....

Fantastic thanks for that, great to see this progress.

Jack1985 · 14-10-2020 12:25am

I wonder what the reasoning was as to why the parallel taxiway needed to diverge off to south before reconnecting with the old Taxiway G?

sparrowcar · 14-10-2020 12:29am

Jack1985 wrote: »

I wonder what the reasoning was as to why the parallel taxiway needed to diverge off to south before reconnecting with the old Taxiway G?

I think I heard it was an EASA requirement. To do with pilots line of sight while crossing 16/34.

BonnieSituation · 14-10-2020 1:14am

sparrowcar wrote: »

I think I heard it was an EASA requirement. To do with pilots line of sight while crossing 16/34.

Yeah. Was discussed up thread. Much safer to cross/hit runways at a right angle.

Here's a nice video on the blindspot phenomenon on angled roads:

https://youtu.be/SYeeTvitvFU

14-10-2020 6:44am

Jack1985 wrote: »

I wonder what the reasoning was as to why the parallel taxiway needed to diverge off to south before reconnecting with the old Taxiway G?

There’s a EUROCONTROL document, the European Action Plan for the Prevention of Runway Incursions. Whilst its recommendations are not mandatory, when the word “Should” is used then the recommendation is considered ‘best practice’.

The relevant recommendation is contained in APPENDIX K AERODROME DESIGN GUIDANCE FOR THE PREVENTION OF RUNWAY INCURSION

Air crews need an unobstructed view of the runway, in both directions to the thresholds, to confirm that the runway and its approach are clear of conflicting traffic before proceeding to enter onto this runway. To provide this clear view, runway entrances should be perpendicular to the runway as far as practicable.

Clearly, this recommendation also applies for aircraft crossing a runway, in this case 16/34.

Captain_Crash · 14-10-2020 8:38am

Deleted User wrote: »

There’s a EUROCONTROL document, the European Action Plan for the Prevention of Runway Incursions. Whilst its recommendations are not mandatory, when the word “Should” is used then the recommendation is considered ‘best practice’.

The relevant recommendation is contained in APPENDIX K AERODROME DESIGN GUIDANCE FOR THE PREVENTION OF RUNWAY INCURSION

Clearly, this recommendation also applies for aircraft crossing a runway, in this case 16/34.

Its kind of ironic that the same runway has 3 angled crossings just a few hundred meters down from the new diverged crossing.

14-10-2020 8:54am

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Its kind of ironic that the same runway has 3 angled crossings just a few hundred meters down from the new diverged crossing.

Very true. But in a new build situation, you pretty well have to follow the (newer) guidance.

Captain_Crash · 14-10-2020 9:13am

Deleted User wrote: »

Very true. But in a new build situation, you pretty well have to follow the (newer) guidance.

Oh I agree absolutely, just pointing out the irony of it all haha. Those crossings were long built before EASA issued any such guidance.

Jack1985 · 14-10-2020 4:53pm

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Its kind of ironic that the same runway has 3 angled crossings just a few hundred meters down from the new diverged crossing.

Yeah, a few years back a Monarch entered 16, a Ryanair was able to reject just before V1 and came to a safe stop.

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/A321_/_B738,_Dublin_Ireland,_2011

xper · 16-10-2020 1:02am

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

This seems to be fairly recent.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=3271b7a5-f9ad-43c8-ac56-b1fc10f16d1b&cp=53.436068~-6.264971&lvl=15&style=h&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

That's quite a few months old, possibly a year old. Google Map's current image is even older - construction proper hasn't begun on that. Apple Maps, if you have one of their devices, has high-res imagery from this summer with work well under way on the new runway and existing taxiway intersections of 16/34 which has multiple closed 'X' markings (plus lots and lots of parked up aircraft).

And if you want a look at what it (or anything else) looks like now-ish, albeit at low-res, there's always Sentinal Hub EO Browser. Here's a link to the clearest image from the last week ... 7th October 2020 Link ... give it a minute to load the satellite imagery over the map

BonnieSituation · 16-10-2020 1:12am

What's with the requirements to narrow the runways?

Seems counterintuitive to remove landing area?

Is it just a case of bring lights in narrower rather than trimming the tarmac?

NH2013 · 16-10-2020 8:00am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What's with the requirements to narrow the runways?

Seems counterintuitive to remove landing area?

Is it just a case of bring lights in narrower rather than trimming the tarmac?

Indeed its just bringing in the white lines and lights on the side of the runway.

Main reason, particularly with 16/34, was due to the optical illusion it induced for pilots on approach of feeling low on the profile, due to the short length of 16/34. This in turn would mean some might be liable to approach the runway from a slightly higher angle to make the picture look more correct or normal, and the result being you're then more liable to land long or further down an already quite short runway by modern standards.

16 and 34 in particular was always well known as having strange illusions on approach, particularly at night where its short length, wide width and lack of centerline lights gave it a real black hole effect on the approach and made it quite hard to judge your relative position of the aircraft vs the runway while on the final stages of the approach.

Brendan Bendar · 16-10-2020 8:02am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What's with the requirements to narrow the runways?

Seems counterintuitive to remove landing area?

Is it just a case of bring lights in narrower rather than trimming the tarmac?

Basically to standardise runway width as disparate widths could lead pilots to the impression they were lower in approach than they actually were.

It’s narrowing and embedding the lights.... t

Ohh ohh...... sorry didn’t see above post

Sorreeeee

HTCOne · 16-10-2020 10:23am

NH2013 wrote: »

16 and 34 in particular was always well known as having strange illusions on approach, particularly at night where its short length, wide width and lack of centerline lights gave it a real black hole effect on the approach and made it quite hard to judge your relative position of the aircraft vs the runway while on the final stages of the approach.

Particularly when the lighting on the Holiday Inn (or whatever it is called now) in Ballymun used to make it look exactly like a runway!

http://avherald.com/h?article=3fa877c1/0001

Hope Simon doesn’t mind me linking to his site if he is around......

Shedite27 · 16-10-2020 10:51am

HTCOne wrote: »

Particularly when the lighting on the Holiday Inn (or whatever it is called now) in Ballymun used fo make it look exactly like a runway!

http://avherald.com/h?article=3fa877c1/0001

Hope Simon doesn’t mind me linking to his site if he is around......

It does too

L1011 · 16-10-2020 11:01am

Its the Metro, was the Days.

BonnieSituation · 16-10-2020 1:21pm

NH2013 wrote: »

Indeed its just bringing in the white lines and lights on the side of the runway.

Main reason, particularly with 16/34, was due to the optical illusion it induced for pilots on approach of feeling low on the profile, due to the short length of 16/34. This in turn would mean some might be liable to approach the runway from a slightly higher angle to make the picture look more correct or normal, and the result being you're then more liable to land long or further down an already quite short runway by modern standards.

16 and 34 in particular was always well known as having strange illusions on approach, particularly at night where its short length, wide width and lack of centerline lights gave it a real black hole effect on the approach and made it quite hard to judge your relative position of the aircraft vs the runway while on the final stages of the approach.

Thanks so much for that.

I actually thought ALL runways were being narrowed.

Great explanation.

And I can completely visualise the issue you describe occuring.

BonnieSituation · 16-10-2020 1:22pm

HTCOne wrote: »

Particularly when the lighting on the Holiday Inn (or whatever it is called now) in Ballymun used to make it look exactly like a runway!

http://avherald.com/h?article=3fa877c1/0001

Hope Simon doesn’t mind me linking to his site if he is around......

That's a fantastic article. Cheers for the link.

Shedite27 wrote: »

It does too

The zoomed in photo is actually pretty haunting when you think of the potential catastrophe.

What lights are in place now to stop this happening?

theguzman · 16-10-2020 4:18pm

Has anyone flown into Dublin airport domestically from either Kerry or Donegal this year in Covid times or else in recent years. I myself last flew Kerry to Dublin in 2010 with Ryanair and I really can't remember at the time but I think there was no checkpoint.

I think it is truly horrendous that you have to clear immigration and get your passport scanned to fly domestically despite it being an internal flight domestically within the Republic of Ireland, it has a real big brother feel to it. Is this domestic immigration checkpoint something new resulting from Covid or what? E.g. we can fly to the UK and waltz through with no checks but fly to Dublin (same country) and you get checked and interrogated.

AnRothar · 16-10-2020 4:45pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What's with the requirements to narrow the runways?

Seems counterintuitive to remove landing area?

A bit more info.
Runways are designed with the typically expected aircraft types who will use it in mind.

Most historic runways were designed when the DC8/B707 were still common.
These 4 engine types then drove the runway design.
Specifically the 2 outer engines.
They were closer to the ground than the newer 4 engine designs (B747/A340) hence the need for "wide" runways.
Some older runways had an additional "shoulder" facilitate this.

Bar the legacy 4 engine types all new build large passenger aircraft are twin engines.

EASA recognised this and it was part of the recommendations in its recent document on runway design.
Why build extra unnecessary pavement.

Kevski · 16-10-2020 5:05pm

theguzman wrote: »

Has anyone flown into Dublin airport domestically from either Kerry or Donegal this year in Covid times or else in recent years. I myself last flew Kerry to Dublin in 2010 with Ryanair and I really can't remember at the time but I think there was no checkpoint.

I think it is truly horrendous that you have to clear immigration and get your passport scanned to fly domestically despite it being an internal flight domestically within the Republic of Ireland, it has a real big brother feel to it. Is this domestic immigration checkpoint something new resulting from Covid or what? E.g. we can fly to the UK and waltz through with no checks but fly to Dublin (same country) and you get checked and interrogated.

There’s no segregation between passengers coming from domestic and non-domestic flights on landing so all have to pass through immigration.

Locker10a · 16-10-2020 5:53pm

Kevski wrote: »

There’s no segregation between passengers coming from domestic and non-domestic flights on landing so all have to pass through immigration.

You can flash your boarding pass to avoid digging out ID

LXFlyer · 16-10-2020 6:30pm

theguzman wrote: »

Has anyone flown into Dublin airport domestically from either Kerry or Donegal this year in Covid times or else in recent years. I myself last flew Kerry to Dublin in 2010 with Ryanair and I really can't remember at the time but I think there was no checkpoint.

I think it is truly horrendous that you have to clear immigration and get your passport scanned to fly domestically despite it being an internal flight domestically within the Republic of Ireland, it has a real big brother feel to it. Is this domestic immigration checkpoint something new resulting from Covid or what? E.g. we can fly to the UK and waltz through with no checks but fly to Dublin (same country) and you get checked and interrogated.

It is not a new thing. It was exactly the same back in 2010 and prior years.

There has not been a segregated domestic arrivals corridor.

Idbatterim · 22-10-2020 7:45pm

if this has already been discussed elsewhere, I apologise. What do you lads think the future outlook is for airport?s Will the larger ones like dublin etc with a critical mass, will bounce back quite a bit, if as I expect, ryanair etc, will cull large amount of routes from cork, shannon , belfast etc, when we come out of this **** show, as demand will take a long time to return?

cork should have flights to our own dublin hub here, its ridiculous that passengers route via london etc, when dublin has a colossal amount of the popular routes.

Hotblack Desiato · 23-10-2020 10:50am

Been done to death. Cork-Dublin motorway has killed off any prospect of that route returning.
Once the Cork-Limerick motorway is built, ORK should close really :eek:

The idea that this island could sustain six or seven international airports was ridiculous before the crisis never mind after.

MJohnston · 23-10-2020 11:57am

How much control do we have over security theatre on internal flights?

If you could minimise that for those flights, reduce the preflight process so that you’d only have to arrive a few minutes before, as you do for the train, and make it quicker to exit afterwards. If you could do all that, internal flights might have a chance of flourishing again.

Of course, even post-Covid the airline industry is going to have to reckon with decarbonisation very soon

Stephen Strange · 23-10-2020 12:31pm

MJohnston wrote: »

How much control do we have over security theatre on internal flights?

If you could minimise that for those flights, reduce the preflight process so that you’d only have to arrive a few minutes before, as you do for the train, and make it quicker to exit afterwards. If you could do all that, internal flights might have a chance of flourishing again.

Of course, even post-Covid the airline industry is going to have to reckon with decarbonisation very soon

Given that pax would mix with international passengers, absolutely no control at all.

Chris_5339762 · 23-10-2020 1:00pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Been done to death. Cork-Dublin motorway has killed off any prospect of that route returning.
Once the Cork-Limerick motorway is built, ORK should close really :eek:

The idea that this island could sustain six or seven international airports was ridiculous before the crisis never mind after.

They were actually considering reinstating it before COVID.

MJohnston · 23-10-2020 1:08pm

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Given that pax would mix with international passengers, absolutely no control at all.

But say there was separation, hypothetically — I presume there are bare minimum rules set by the EU, even on internal flights?

VG31 · 23-10-2020 1:42pm

MJohnston wrote: »

But say there was separation, hypothetically — I presume there are bare minimum rules set by the EU, even on internal flights?

I might be mistaken but I think some of the Scottish island flights have no security.

cgcsb · 23-10-2020 1:51pm

A new high speed rail study will look at providing Cork and Belfast with high speed links to Dublin City and Airport. If such a link is built then certainly one of Belfast's airports would close, likely Aldergrove. Cork and Belfast City airports would still have an important regional function. Internal flights Dub to Cork cannot compete with existing rail journey times or ticket prices so in a future with high speed rail there's no chance of this, the Dub to Kerry flight will likely be gone too in the future leaving Dub to Donegal the last internal flight.

Decarbonisation policy will eventually target air travel and the first tool in that struggle is to replace it with rail where possible, not just here but across Europe. In Spain their newly built high speed rail network was struggling to attract pax, a 2 birds with one stone solution is banning most internal flights with exceptions for the islands.

As an island we depend on air travel a lot and that's unlikely to change but new internal flights is a counter productive idea

LXFlyer · 23-10-2020 3:17pm

VG31 wrote: »

I might be mistaken but I think some of the Scottish island flights have no security.

Correct - the PSO flights from Kirkwall to the strips on the Orkney islands don't go through security.

LXFlyer · 23-10-2020 3:19pm

MJohnston wrote: »

But say there was separation, hypothetically — I presume there are bare minimum rules set by the EU, even on internal flights?

I cannot imagine that any flight from an international airport, even with fully segregated passageways would not involve a full security check.

The risk of someone getting onto the ramp alone would be too great.

Hotblack Desiato · 23-10-2020 3:25pm

The naivete that an internal flight could not be targeted by terrorists is somewhat disturbing.

and having two airports in the Belfast region is crazy, it ensures neither can develop.

MJohnston · 23-10-2020 3:33pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The naivete that an internal flight could not be targeted by terrorists is somewhat disturbing.

Meh, it's not disturbing at all nor is it naïveté, I just think 90% of airport security is pure theatre, largely foisted upon us by America, and nothing more.

Shedite27 · 23-10-2020 3:47pm

What's the Aran Islands - Galway flight like?

Idbatterim · 23-10-2020 4:27pm

high speed rail FFS! Its comedy! cant even build a few km metro in dublin, where the population will probably grow by as much as cork city in the next decade...

Where is the sustainability, in having a cork to dublin route for high speed rail , I really dont get this nonsense of huge commutes, when you actually just provide a proper transport system in dublin and cork , DU and MN primarily and have people walking, cycling, working from home etc or travelling 2km, not 200 :rolleyes:

bk · 23-10-2020 5:39pm

Yes, the idea of Cork to Belfast true high speed rail * simply isn't going to happen in the next 40 to 50 years. Far too expensive (12 billion+), with far too little demand and far more important projects to work on in the meantime.

It is a nice dream, but we simply don't have big enough cities to justify the high cost of high speed rail and our cities are relatively too close for it and as Idbatterim says above, the really useful projects that need building are the likes of DU, Metros, etc.

If a route between two cities doesn't even have enough demand for an air route, it certainly doesn't have enough demand for much more expensive HSR.

* Note I'm talking about true HSR here, which requires an entirely new routing/track. Of course we should be making sensible upgrades to the existing tracks and services to get better and faster journey times out of the existing infrastructure and trains.

Metrolink will be much more useful to Dublin Airport then a HSR.

Idbatterim · 23-10-2020 6:08pm

dublins transport network is so appalling, why cant they have a large park and ride around m50 etc, that you could park your car for very little or nothing, and then take a bus down to cork etc... getting into heuston station on the transport here is a joke, simply takes too long.

because at the moment, people just wont or cant travel to there etc say red cow area park and ride, in dublin with the appalling transport network, with any reasonable journey time... You would wonder, with battery technology, would they start running electric buses down motorway at even 130/140kmph?

as an extra incentive to get people out of cars or even reduce car speed limit, probably way off topic..

Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Comments