Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

18-04-2021 9:14pm

But if we just want the fastest cars at the front and not to be held up then why not just do time trials? There's far too little risk in giving up track position now.

SureYWouldntYa · 18-04-2021 9:30pm

Then it would become a race for the undercut since cars, despite being able to go faster, often cant overtake

I think Crofty said you'd needed was it a 1.4 second advantage to be able to pass someone without DRS, which on a circuit with laps coming in under 1.15 in quali is a bit mad

barryribs · 18-04-2021 10:02pm

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Then it would become a race for the undercut since cars, despite being able to go faster, often cant overtake

I think Crofty said you'd needed was it a 1.4 second advantage to be able to pass someone without DRS, which on a circuit with laps coming in under 1.15 in quali is a bit mad

'Crofty' talks out of his hole a lot, I wouldn't take anything he says as truth. The extra 200 metres added onto the DRS zone for the race this year meant that almost all the passing was done before braking. Lando was the only driver capable of defending for more than a lap from Hamilton as far as I recall

Killinator · 18-04-2021 10:10pm

I may be wrong going by comments here and elsewhere online but was DRS not available for all drivers both in this race and every race for the last several years?
Also it is a thing where lapped cars are allowed unlap themselves under safety car, another thing that has been around for yonks.

Hamilton benefits from the same rules that are there for everyone else and everyone goes crazy!

DRS has helped Lando, Max, Charles,etc.. in many occasion with few complaints.
Same for the overtaking to unlap themselves.
Perez and Gasly won last year with plenty of DRS assistance but nobody bemoaned them that!

When the rules punish Hamilton people are delighted and it's justified but when they favour him it's an outrage and everything that's wrong with the sport

I get it, plenty of people don't like, nay, even hate Hamilton, but it doesn't hurt to occasionally looked at things from a slightly less biased view against him.

klose · 18-04-2021 10:27pm

barryribs wrote: »

'Crofty' talks out of his hole a lot, I wouldn't take anything he says as truth. The extra 200 metres added onto the DRS zone for the race this year meant that almost all the passing was done before braking. Lando was the only driver capable of defending for more than a lap from Hamilton as far as I recall

They were saying DRS is designed to get the driver into position to overtake in the braking zone, then Lewis proceeded to blitz everyone before they even got to the breaking zone when he had DRS on then. Props to lando though, kept him at bay for 3 to 4 laps with, but its kind of sad that with DRS being so powerful that it was always a matter of when Lewis would pass lando instead of it

18-04-2021 10:34pm

Killinator wrote: »

I may be wrong going by comments here and elsewhere online but was DRS not available for all drivers both in this race and every race for the last several years?
Also it is a thing where lapped cars are allowed unlap themselves under safety car, another thing that has been around for yonks.

Hamilton benefits from the same rules that are there for everyone else and everyone goes crazy!

DRS has helped Lando, Max, Charles,etc.. in many occasion with few complaints.
Same for the overtaking to unlap themselves.
Perez and Gasly won last year with plenty of DRS assistance but nobody bemoaned them that!

When the rules punish Hamilton people are delighted and it's justified but when they favour him it's an outrage and everything that's wrong with the sport

I get it, plenty of people don't like, nay, even hate Hamilton, but it doesn't hurt to occasionally looked at things from a slightly less biased view against him.

"Everyone goes crazy"? Talk about hyperbole.

I've been saying for about 18 months at least that DRS should be gotten rid of. It's not just because Hamilton benefitted today.

As for unlapping oneself, I've also been criticising this for years and years.
When it was first introduced Brundle pointed out that it meant not only did a 20 second gap that was fought for and earned disappeared as before but any lapped cars in between would be gone, further reducing the advantage the leader had earned.

Sorry for going crazy, I'll try to take a deep breath. I hope I haven't scared you.

Killinator · 18-04-2021 10:37pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Everyone goes crazy"? Talk about hyperbole.

I've been saying for about 18 months at least that DRS should be gotten rid of. It's not just because Hamilton benefitted today.

As for unlapping oneself, I've also been criticising this for years and years.
When it was first introduced Brundle pointed out that it meant not only did a 20 second gap that was fought for and earned disappeared as before but any lapped cars in between would be gone, further reducing the advantage the leader had earned.

Sorry for going crazy, I'll try to take a deep breath. I hope I haven't scared you.

Who said anything about scaring? What a weird comment

18-04-2021 10:40pm

Killinator wrote: »

Who said anything about scaring? What a weird comment

Well I'm just going so crazy like surely it would be making you wonder what I might do next!? Since I'm going oh so crazy. What with my repeating my consistent opinions that I've held for years and all.
I'm going so crazy who knows what I'm gonna do!?

Killinator · 18-04-2021 10:42pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well I'm just going so crazy like surely it would be making you wonder what I might do next!? Since I'm going oh so crazy. What with my repeating my consistent opinions that I've held for years and all.
I'm going so crazy who knows what I'm gonna do!?

Riiiight, don't take everything so literally maybe.
I won't engage any further because you appear to possibly be having a stroke

18-04-2021 10:45pm

Killinator wrote: »

Riiiight, don't take everything so literally maybe.
I won't engage any further because you appear to possibly be having a stroke

I dunno, you're the one with repeating key presses, I'd be more worried about yourself having a stroke.

Come along posting plain incorrect hyperbole, get shown that you're wrong with some sarcastic out-doing hyperbole, refuse to engage. Classic.

Killinator · 18-04-2021 10:47pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I dunno, you're the one with repeating key presses, I'd be more worried about yourself having a stroke.

Come along posting plain incorrect hyperbole, get shown that you're wrong with some sarcastic out-doing hyperbole, refuse to engage. Classic.

Yes, classic. You won the internet, have a cookie. (HINT: it's an internet cookie and not a real one!)

donspeekinglesh · 19-04-2021 8:57am

Killinator wrote: »

I may be wrong going by comments here and elsewhere online but was DRS not available for all drivers both in this race and every race for the last several years?
Also it is a thing where lapped cars are allowed unlap themselves under safety car, another thing that has been around for yonks.

I've hated those rules since they were first mooted.
DRS has spoiled the racing so much for me I rarely ever watch a race any more. You'd see more interesting overtaking from a motorway overpass.

The lapped car rule is the stupid NASCAR Lucky Dog rule which takes away from the advantage the leading car has built, even more than the SC/red flag has.

AMKC · 19-04-2021 10:13am

So would anyone here like to explain how a William's was in a position it really should not have been and nearly overtook a Mercedes except for that crash it would have. Is George Russell just that good a driver but not quiet there yet because he touched the white line or is Bottas just that bad? Also If George had of done it would he have passed other cars and maybe got on the podium do you think? I guess we will never really know. Was it just that George had better tyres than Bottas maybe?

klose · 19-04-2021 10:19am

AMKC wrote: »

So would anyone here like to explain how a William's was in a position it really should not have been and nearly overtook a Mercedes except for that crash it would have. Is George Russell just that good a driver but not quiet there yet because he touched the white line or is Bottas just that bad? Also If George had of done it would he have passed other cars and maybe got on the podium do you think? I guess we will never really know. Was it just that George had better tyres than Bottas maybe?

Williams (latifi in particular) looked much improved in practicing and with both qualifying for Q2 so it seems they've gained some pace, bottas only qualified in 8th 4 places ahead of Russell, if turkey last season was anything to go by bottas doesn't really enjoy the wet conditions either.

recyclebin · 19-04-2021 11:27am

Bottas was having a stinker of a weekend even before Russell took him out. Williams look to have gained a bit of pace too, as both made it to second phase of qualifying.

If I was Mercedes, I would have been fuming with Russell for crashing into Bottas and also for making Hamilton go onto to the wet line to lap him.

Joeface · 19-04-2021 11:29am

Latifi looks like he spend his first year learning and applying it in his second. He has looked faster. He had a good qualifying session.
one certain rookie this year could do with following that example instead of spinning up a storm .

I had not included Ricciardo the list of moving drivers that would need time to adjust but seems like he does need more time ( my list in my head ).
For myself I was giving Perez , Sainz , Vettel and Alonso 3 races to get to grip with the car they have and then Race 4 was no excuses given how short the winter season for testing was this year.

Sainz for me has adapted the best. he was well on Charles pace yesterday
Ricciardo is ok but given the very clear pace difference between him and Lando he does need a bit more.
Vettel is cursed (or Aston Martin is ) but he has progressed some bit . Qualifying was better from him and he looked smoother , and Stroll has shown it is a Top ten car, so he really should be in Q3 next time out .

Perez is a little unknown as well , he can drive the car and had a good qualification but was no where really in the race. He actually looked no better than Albon at his worst yesterday.

Alonso , I am not sure if it is the car or him . Ocon looks fast some times and then it's just gone a few laps later. its not a perfect car . I find his the hardest to judge whether he is improving in the car or not.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-04-2021 12:19pm

Joeface wrote: »

Latifi looks like he spend his first year learning and applying it in his second. He has looked faster. He had a good qualifying session.
one certain rookie this year could do with following that example instead of spinning up a storm .

I had not included Ricciardo the list of moving drivers that would need time to adjust but seems like he does need more time ( my list in my head ).
For myself I was giving Perez , Sainz , Vettel and Alonso 3 races to get to grip with the car they have and then Race 4 was no excuses given how short the winter season for testing was this year...

I think Latiffi is probably surprising people with his performance this weekend. Much closer to Russell. And even ahead in practice. But he was significantly behind Russel last weekend so we'll have to see how it goes.

Similarly, Sainz and Perez were well off Leclerc and Max's pace last weekend but much closer this weekend.

The older, more experienced drivers are taking longer to adapt. You would think that ability to adapt is a skill which develops with time, bit it actually seems like a disadvantage to the older guys in this case. Vettel did a terrible job of adapting to the Ferrari for the last 2 years and isn't doing much better this year so far. Norris seems to be on great form but his first half of last year was stronger then the second half so we'll have to see how it works out. He's certainly getting more out of the McLaren so far.

Alonso isn't looking sharp at all. Time might have caught up with him.

muckwarrior · 19-04-2021 2:08pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Alonso isn't looking sharp at all. Time might have caught up with him.

Despite being a big Alonso fan I really didn't want him to return. Even if he was still at his best (unlikely), I knew Renault hadn't a hope in hell of providing him with a winning car.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-04-2021 2:18pm

muckwarrior wrote: »

Despite being a big Alonso fan I really didn't want him to return. Even if he was still at his best (unlikely), I knew Renault hadn't a hope in hell of providing him with a winning car.

How long is he contracted for?

Joeface · 19-04-2021 2:33pm

2 years , He is really hoping for Next years car

muckwarrior · 19-04-2021 3:05pm

Joeface wrote: »

2 years , He is really hoping for Next years car

Unless they find a loophole, like Brawn did, then the chances of them out-developing teams like Mercedes and Red Bull are practically zero IMO.

Joeface · 19-04-2021 3:07pm

Aston are now content with the Rule changes , at least that is one less PR battle . maybe focus on the current car could see improvement.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/aston-martin-now-pretty-satisfied-in-f1-rule-change-row/

Adamocovic · 19-04-2021 5:16pm

What a great start to the year compared to other seasons.

Loads of drama up and down the field. If this is a taste of things to come for next year we are going in the right direction.

Can’t wait for the next round!

Adamocovic · 19-04-2021 5:17pm

Joeface wrote: »

Aston are now content with the Rule changes , at least that is one less PR battle . maybe focus on the current car could see improvement.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/aston-martin-now-pretty-satisfied-in-f1-rule-change-row/

They really need to sort themselves out.

So many errors by the team. Hard to really tell how competitive the car is pace wise since they don’t seem to be able to get it to run problem free.

Killinator · 19-04-2021 5:23pm

I thought Aston were supposed to be providing the safety/medical cars yet it was Mercs this weekend.
Was that a one off thing?

Adamocovic · 19-04-2021 5:28pm

Killinator wrote: »

I thought Aston were supposed to be providing the safety/medical cars yet it was Mercs this weekend.
Was that a one off thing?

Could be wrong but I believe they said they are providing them next race again.

Captain_Crash · 19-04-2021 5:53pm

Killinator wrote: »

I thought Aston were supposed to be providing the safety/medical cars yet it was Mercs this weekend.
Was that a one off thing?

They rotate with Merc, odd numbered weeks are Aston with even numbers being Merc.!

Jordan 199 · 20-04-2021 12:13am

Adamocovic wrote: »

What a great start to the year compared to other seasons.

Loads of drama up and down the field. If this is a taste of things to come for next year we are going in the right direction.

Can’t wait for the next round!

Hopefully reliability won't play a factor in the championship.

20-04-2021 12:28am

Norris Russell seeing the replay.

https://gfycat.com/spiffycourteousamericankestrel-sportsarefun

flazio · 20-04-2021 10:15am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Norris seeing the replay.

https://gfycat.com/spiffycourteousamericankestrel-sportsarefun

Did you mean Russell?

Anyway he's "reflected" (talked to pr) and released this statement.
https://twitter.com/GeorgeRussell63/status/1384183159567241223?s=19

20-04-2021 10:19am

flazio wrote: »

Did you mean Russell?

I did. :P

Would've rathered Russell just answering questions at the next race. Really hate the PR nonsense of putting out statements like that.

eviltimeban · 20-04-2021 11:11am

I'd more surprised if F1 drivers *didn't* react like that when they are angry. They are people, specifically guys, more specifically young guys, so of course they are going to boil over sometimes.

weisses · 20-04-2021 11:25am

Adamocovic wrote: »

What a great start to the year compared to other seasons.

Loads of drama up and down the field. If this is a taste of things to come for next year we are going in the right direction.

Can’t wait for the next round!

Imo the reason for the exiting season so far are the relative minor rule changes compared to last year ... Next year will be a completely different field again with the bigger teams having the better car

This is it · 21-04-2021 1:39am

https://whendidmazepinspin.com/

eviltimeban · 21-04-2021 9:42am

LIGHTNING wrote: »

They all get media training as part of the role so they know how to react. Although in extreme cases human nature takes over.

Yeah but he wasn't on front of the media. On front of the media they are all "for sure it's a great result for the team" but in the heat of the moment in the middle of the noise and confusion of a race track, all that probably goes away.

Russell was hardly gonna go up to Bottas and say "what ho old boy, bit of argy bargy!" Nor as Bottas gonna let him get away with anything.

In a way I'd have preferred to not have had to read the "will take time to reflect" type apologies. And just let them get on with being competitors. Could you imagine someone like Irvine, or Montoya, or Senna himself, issuing this kind of statement after an outburst.

duploelabs · 21-04-2021 9:58am

eviltimeban wrote: »

Yeah but he wasn't on front of the media. On front of the media they are all "for sure it's a great result for the team" but in the heat of the moment in the middle of the noise and confusion of a race track, all that probably goes away.

Russell was hardly gonna go up to Bottas and say "what ho old boy, bit of argy bargy!" Nor as Bottas gonna let him get away with anything.

In a way I'd have preferred to not have had to read the "will take time to reflect" type apologies. And just let them get on with being competitors. Could you imagine someone like Irvine, or Montoya, or Senna himself, issuing this kind of statement after an outburst.

Or storming into their pit box, ready to puck the head off them ala Schumacher

Jordan 199 · 21-04-2021 10:01am

duploelabs wrote: »

Or storming into their pit box, ready to puck the head off them ala Schumacher

I wouldn't mind seeing more of that kind of thing to be honest.

mickdw · 21-04-2021 10:06am

Im thinking russell is abit of a dick.
I listened to audio from all the drivers the day of the grosjean crash. Maybe heavily edited but each and everyone except russell came on the radio asking is he ok and saying massive fire ball etc.
Russell came on complaining about his start - asking what went on with it.

Glico Man · 21-04-2021 11:23am

It's all well and good for us to want to drivers to be human and express themselves how we would expect them to a la "heat of the moment", but that's not the look their teams or sponsors want. It's a different age to Senna, Schumi pelting down the pitlane after Coulthard and Montoya saying what he wants.

Everyone is micromanaged and media trained to be corporate speakers. It's sh!te and dilutes their personalities so they're all essentially the same driving robot, but with different accents. At least in front of the screens we see.

Was a breath of fresh air when they first started doing their online race streams last year when they were able to show the world how they really are, before the teams, F1 and sponsors got their fingers in the pie of course.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-04-2021 12:22pm

McLaren has agreed a sale and lease back of it's factory. It's probably necessary given the financial trouble McLaren was in before the covid pandemic. But I think it's sad to see teams divest from the sport like this.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclaren-agrees-factory-sale-leaseback-deal/6365441/

recyclebin · 21-04-2021 1:47pm

Yeah, doesn't look great. You can only sell the family jewels once. Next financial crash you won't have that privelege.

quokula · 21-04-2021 2:27pm

Speaking of drivers showing their human side, this piece from Pierre Gasly is a must read:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/pierre-gasly-formula-one-racing

It's from a few weeks ago so maybe it's been posted here, but I only just came across it.

cherryghost · 21-04-2021 2:29pm

Spat out my tea, classic Crofty

F1 Simpsons FB group

mickdw · 21-04-2021 2:35pm

recyclebin wrote: »

Yeah, doesn't look great. You can only sell the family jewels once. Next financial crash you won't have that privelege.

Ya, its worrying really. They have already borrowed against their historic car collection. No sure if that has been changed recently.

Would be funny if the new owners sold the building on to Ron Dennis or a Dennis controlled business.

barryribs · 21-04-2021 2:43pm

Only Zak could spin this yarn. Sells for 170 million, having spent almost double that to build. Genius!

Adamocovic · 21-04-2021 3:56pm

weisses wrote: »

Imo the reason for the exiting season so far are the relative minor rule changes compared to last year ... Next year will be a completely different field again with the bigger teams having the better car

I hope you’re wrong. By all account next year should produce even more competitive racing (on paper) in an attempt to shorten the gap from the big teams.

I’ve been viewing this season as a precursor of things to come.

They’ve been focusing on closing out loopholes from the new technical regulations to avoid one team having a dominant car.

The aero changes see the least successful cars getting more aerodynamic testing in another aim to help bridge the gap.

That along with budget caps and new car designs has me optimistic.

It was due to be this year but Covid delayed it, and I believe they’ve have introduced some of the changes slightly to test them.

Only time will tell but from the drivers it seems like they believe there will be much closer racing next year, hence why a lot are signing deals to be in the car next year and seem to have one eye on it.

Adamocovic · 21-04-2021 3:58pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I am fairly sure that Russell was the only driver to call Romain when he lost his drive.

100%. Romain confirmed as much.

I think George is probably a nice guy, but like most racers they can act like assholes at times. Nature of the sport. Every driver moans and has their moments.

mickdw · 21-04-2021 4:01pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I am fairly sure that Russell was the only driver to call Romain when he lost his drive.

Id didnt know that.
His comments were still odd - its possible he didnt see alot of the incident i guess.

duploelabs · 21-04-2021 4:08pm

barryribs wrote: »

Only Zak could spin this yarn. Sells for 170 million, having spent almost double that to build. Genius!

I'd say 50m of that was Norman Foster's fee

Adamocovic · 21-04-2021 4:56pm

Was thinking recently about the drivers. Lewis in particular.

Always respected Lewis as a driver but the reason I wasn't one of his fans hoping he'd win all the time was because I always found him a bit boring and scripted. Don't know why it took me this long to realise that it's something that is probably even more critical for him than any of the other drivers.

We see when drivers lash out and speak their minds at times how they are treated by fans and the media, no doubt for Lewis these reactions would be multiplied. I was recently reading and watching some stuff on him and I understand that despite F1 having this image of a gentleman's sport him being a person of colour coming into the sport has definitely made his journey different.

Since he is the only one, he has had to be careful how he presents himself to avoid kneejerk reactions from the media. It's not fair but I believe it's true. It's a bit unfair that he's had to take this mantle of being the hero or voice for those not represented as much in the sport, it is unfortunately the case. I think he spoke previously about how it took him time to even feel comfortable wearing the clothes he does now, or just his style as it would be plastered all over the papers.

It's strange, but watching Bird and Magic documentary at the weekend had me thinking of Lewis a bit more too. Larry Bird had all those fans and hope pinned on him entering the league as, at the time the only really top level white basketball player. It's completely different times, circumstances and fans but it still made me think of the added pressure.

Factor in the British media to it all as well. They love nothing more than to jump on their own stars whenever they have a stumble. The added scrutiny at any chance.

This year I'm warming to Lewis, he seems to be a bit more friendly (or how I'm seeing it) to the current crop of drivers as compared to back in the days. I don't even think it's anything he's done differently just my viewing of him.

Yes I don't find him the most interesting or entertaining driver off the track but finally can understand why. On the track great to watch. Maybe that's all that should matter.

I actually feel embarrassed that it's taken me this long to final cop that the very thing I criticise the most about him is something he is doing to make his life a little more stress free. He's in the position where he doesn't really have the luxury to be unscripted, and at this point of his career he's so used to thinking over his replies before commenting. If he came in with a Max attitude he'd have received a lot of hate I think.

Again just my opinion really, others probably don't agree.

Either way, I'm going to enjoy his battle this year, would love to see him and Max go the distance, the greediness in me wants Lando to somehow challenge too!

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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