Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Chris_5339762 · 12-04-2021 9:35pm

The problem with this virus is twofold.

1) There is no decent middle ground where you can have an acceptable amount of virus, with an acceptable amount of economic opening. You either have an unacceptably high amount of virus, or an unacceptably low amount of economy due to lockdown.

2) Yes, it has a 99.7% survival rate, or whatever the exact figure is. It's high. But long-covid is a huge issue which means you can't just let it rip and in any case, the bigger issue is a relatively high percentage of people need ICU. ICU capacity is the bottleneck everywhere.

I think the vaccine will help, definitely. It'll certainly help with 1).

I really hope it will end it, but the longer this goes on for, the more I worry about it. Unless we're all like Israel, we'll have to keep with restrictions of some form because of (2), which will mean the death of tourism, aviation and any mass events. People don't want to accept that, but will they just have to? I don't know.

WoollyRedHat · 12-04-2021 9:35pm

Dressoutlet wrote: »

Yes I do think it's good to offer it in this way, but it should be made clear that this is an opt in vaccine, in a sense. And not have people under 60 say no and then get nothing because the criteria is they can have it if they're aware of the risks.

That's not how it's going to pan out, it's for down the line and presuming recommendation doesn't change. In the short term, under 60s will not be offered AZ vaccine, it will be used only on the Over 60s cohort and they will no longer get offered other two available vaccines, if they have yet to receive first dose.. You may see the possibility of people under 60 down the line getting chance to opt to take AZ one if there was a surplus of that one and shortage of others.

Calahonda52 · 12-04-2021 9:36pm

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The advice is for nobody under 60 to get the astrazeneca vaccine

Based on the expected kill rate from Covid

If you are over 60, she said, then you are 85 times more likely to die from Covid than suffer a clotting event and that is taking the most cautious use of the data.

For people aged 20 to 34, that falls to twice as likely to die from Covid.

12-04-2021 9:36pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Sorry, I forgot it’s not politically correct to love your country. Wouldn’t stop me though.

You don't need to explain yourself, I've already seen all that I need to.

Dressoutlet · 12-04-2021 9:36pm

Strazdas wrote: »

I heard her say that too - they may need to give further clarification on this just to stop any confusion.

Thank you. They seem have left it open for the people who want it can still get it. When the time comes that there's surplus AZ I assume. Jesus Christ I hate being contradicted

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-04-2021 9:37pm

Parachutes wrote: »

All this talk of masks and distancing forever are very worrying to me as a concerned citizen.

Remember. We are talking about a virus with a 99.7% survival rate and is basically a non-issue to the vast majority of the population.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. If things don’t return to normality soon, like minded patriots like myself will have no other option but flexing our God given rights.

Oh please do expand on this, what are your "god given rights" and what will you be "flexing"?

francogarbanzo · 12-04-2021 9:37pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Eww.

I know right? Ick!

Can’t wait to get my vaccines!

Parachutes · 12-04-2021 9:37pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The problem with this virus is twofold.

1) There is no decent middle ground where you can have an acceptable amount of virus, with an acceptable amount of economic opening. You either have an unacceptably high amount of virus, or an unacceptably low amount of economy due to lockdown.

2) Yes, it has a 99.7% survival rate, or whatever the exact figure is. It's high. But long-covid is a huge issue which means you can't just let it rip and in any case, the bigger issue is a relatively high percentage of people need ICU. ICU capacity is the bottleneck everywhere.

I think the vaccine will help, definitely. It'll certainly help with 1).

I really hope it will end it, but the longer this goes on for, the more I worry about it. Unless we're all like Israel, we'll have to keep with restrictions of some form because of (2), which will mean the death of tourism, aviation and any mass events. People don't want to accept that, but will they just have to? I don't know.

As a nation we have survived famines, wars, disasters. We’ll get through this as well.

Turtwig · 12-04-2021 9:39pm

hmmm wrote: »

By make it "open access" I mean if we get to a situation where the 60+ group are vaccinated, and we are getting deliveries of AZ vaccine which is going unused. The benefits from my perspective significantly outweigh the miniscule risk, and I'm sure many others would feel the same.

To a point. If you're talking about a very low risk group then you need consider the implications of a mass vaccination programme. How likely is everyone in Ireland that is, say, 25 years age to get COVID 19? It's reasonable to assume they wouldn't all get COVID. Only a very small % of those who would get infected would die from the disease. If you did a mass vaccination of the 25 year olds you could end up with more dead from the vaccine than would have died from COVID. Even if to each individual their risk of an adverse reaction from AZ was astronomically low. The population pool of those vaccinated would likely be thousands of times greater than those infected with COVID. It's possible that not everyone should be given the open access choice: the odds would be in the individual's favours but not in the population's.

stephenjmcd · 12-04-2021 9:39pm

Dressoutlet wrote: »

Thank you. They seem have left it open for the people who want it can still get it. When the time comes that there's surplus AZ I assume. Jesus Christ I hate being contradicted

She may have misspoken perhaps. The statements are out on government websites now etc and it's pretty clear to be honest that nobody under 60 will be offered dose 1 of AZ at the moment.

Perhaps she means at some point in the future or if medical advice for that person dictated they couldn't have mRNA?

Rebelbrowser · 12-04-2021 9:39pm

The whole thing is so confused. Watched the press conference. Clear priority was reassuring the over 60s that its safe to get. Loads of stats to prove that. But all it did was raise the question of why they were banning it for under 60s then? They didn't seem to get that with every word of reassurance they were completely undermining that decision. On the stats they gave themselves banning it for 55 to 59 cohort is barmy. Only possible explanation is if they think the second jabs and over 60s jabs will use up all the AZ, but is that the case - I thought not?

hmmm · 12-04-2021 9:39pm

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

That's not how it's going to pan out, it's for down the line and presuming recommendation doesn't change. In the short term, under 60s will not be offered AZ vaccine, it will be used only on the Over 60s cohort. You may see the possibility of people under 60 down the line getting chance to opt to take AZ one down the line, it there was a surplus and shortage of other vaccines.

That sounds very reasonable. A slight delay in vaccinations, we should catch up quickly, and unused vaccines can be made available to those who want to get vaccinated faster and accept the risk.

And over the next few weeks hopefully we'll know more about the risk and the cause of it, and possibly a way to identify who is at risk.

Parachutes · 12-04-2021 9:40pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Oh please do expand on this, what are your "god given rights" and what will you be "flexing"?

Political protest and protest through non-compliance. I make no apology, freedom is a god given right, not something that can be taken away at a whim by the likes of Michael Martin, Varadkar and their cronies.

12-04-2021 9:40pm

There definitely was a comment about how AZ could be given to someone under 60 if the balance of benefit to risk warranted it in their individual situation. I'd interpret that as allowing someone at high risk of covid to get AZ if for some reason another vaccine was not available.

stephenjmcd · 12-04-2021 9:41pm

Flying Fox wrote: »

There definitely was a comment about how AZ could be given to someone under 60 if the balance of benefit to risk warranted it in their individual situation. I'd interpret that as allowing someone at high risk of covid to get AZ if for some reason another vaccine was not available.

That would make sense for allergies etc or if someone is unable to take an mRNA vaccine on medical grounds etc

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-04-2021 9:42pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Political protest and protest through non-compliance. I make no apology, freedom is a god given right, not something that can be taken away at a whim by the likes of Michael Martin, Varadkar and their cronies.

Ah right, so nothing really? Waving a placard around and then running away when the guards show up :pac:

I thought with the tough talk you were being a bit more serious, ah well.

Parachutes · 12-04-2021 9:43pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ah right, so nothing really? Waving a placard around and then running away when the guards show up :pac:

I thought with the tough talk you were being a bit more serious, ah well.

Grand so, well look you have the freedom to #standfirm. You do you and I’ll do me.

12-04-2021 9:44pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Political protest and protest through non-compliance. I make no apology, freedom is a god given right, not something that can be taken away at a whim by the likes of Michael Martin, Varadkar and their cronies.

That'll teach em

Miike · 12-04-2021 9:45pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

That Vox piece made sense to me in relation to the efficacy of all the vaccines in the trials in preventing hospitalisation and worse.

Yeah I thought it was a very succinct way of explaining it. It would take me 5 thousand words and I'd leave the readers more confused than when they started!

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-04-2021 9:45pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Grand so, well look you have the freedom to #standfirm. You do you and I’ll do me.

I went for a pint today, I'm not worried about my freedom!

Beasty · 12-04-2021 9:46pm

Threads merged

Parachutes · 12-04-2021 9:47pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I went for a pint today, I'm not worried about my freedom!

Certainly not in Ireland.

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-04-2021 9:47pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Certainly not in Ireland.

I never claimed I was in Ireland.

12-04-2021 9:48pm

Ronan Glynn has just said on Claire Byrne that the new advice should not unduly affect the rollout.

Parachutes · 12-04-2021 9:48pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That'll teach em

Take of that mask and get some oxygen before you lose your last brain cell.

Miike · 12-04-2021 9:48pm

What does this lads pint have to do with vaccines?

Parachutes · 12-04-2021 9:49pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I never claimed I was in Ireland.

You are aware this is an Irish message board?

funnydoggy · 12-04-2021 9:49pm

This whole thing about more people dying long term from the vaccine than from the virus.. anything to back this up?

Miike · 12-04-2021 9:50pm

funnydoggy wrote: »

This whole thing about more people dying long term from the vaccine than from the virus.. anything to back this up?

Which whole thing? You'll need to be more specific :pac:

Strazdas · 12-04-2021 9:50pm

Flying Fox wrote: »

Ronan Glynn has just said on Claire Byrne that the new advice should not unduly affect the rollout.

Claire Byrne says there are 400,000 sixty to 69 year olds in the country, so that could easily use up the full quota with the two doses.

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-04-2021 9:50pm

Parachutes wrote: »

You are aware this is an Irish message board?

I've been posting here for over a decade, yes I know it's an Irish message board :rolleyes:

12-04-2021 9:52pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Take of that mask and get some oxygen before you lose your last brain cell.

:

Jeez....you'll go far in the debating society.....I take it you're just trolling?????

Miike · 12-04-2021 9:52pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'll buy citizenship somewhere, Portugal for example if you buy a property or invest in a business will give citizenship for your whole family for the price of a 3 bed semi in Dublin.

I'll go anywhere without mandatory vaccinations or mandatory facemasks.

You're aware face masks are mandatory in Portugal?

Strumms · 12-04-2021 9:53pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Political protest and protest through non-compliance. I make no apology, freedom is a god given right, not something that can be taken away at a whim by the likes of Michael Martin, Varadkar and their cronies.

Freedom isn’t a god given right...

We don’t have freedoms to....

1. Drive through a red light

2. Walk out of a supermarket without paying for what’s in our trolley

3. Play loud music at 3am

4. Attend and enroll in a college course without the necessary qualifying factors.

5. Assault people we dislike or disagree with or who have hurt us.

We are in this situation and we need to suck it up and continue on the pathway of safety and health for all. Tough times, tough measures, be a team player.

Economics101 · 12-04-2021 9:53pm

The NIAC recommendation seems to be a panic reaction. Instead of re-assuring people it will give further credence to anti-vaxxers. Remember that previously the AZ vaccine was ruled out for the over-70s: why? Now ruled out for the under-60s: why? The implication is that it's OK just for the 60-69s. Crazy stuff.

The EMA, which is the authorising/regulating body we rely on, has said the vaccine is basically OK for all age groups. An interesting study from the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at Cambridge gives a good summary of the risks and benefits: https://wintoncentre.maths.cam.ac.uk/news/communicating-potential-benefits-and-harms-astra-zeneca-covid-19-vaccine/ This has also been published by the UK regulatory agency, the MHRA. Between them I reckon this lot know much more than our follow-the-herd types.

The only group for which there might be a real case for restriction is the under-30s, and then only if the prevalence of the disease is very low.

josip · 12-04-2021 9:53pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I've been posting here for over a decade, yes I know it's an Irish message board :rolleyes:

Re-reg

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-04-2021 9:54pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'll buy citizenship somewhere, Portugal for example if you buy a property or invest in a business will give citizenship for your whole family for the price of a 3 bed semi in Dublin.

I'll go anywhere without mandatory vaccinations or mandatory facemasks.

You might want to do a bit.more research before you jump ship

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-04-2021 9:54pm

josip wrote: »

Re-reg

Yup had 1st account for a few years then closed that and opened this one

funnydoggy · 12-04-2021 9:55pm

Miike wrote: »

Which whole thing? You'll need to be more specific :pac:

The stat itself, is it accurate? :pac:

Beasty · 12-04-2021 9:55pm

vienne86 wrote: »

Why slow down the over 60s .......they're getting Astra Zeneca and there's lots in stock. Give it to them

Agreed

vienne86 wrote: »

and get rid of them.

:eek:

12-04-2021 9:55pm

Strazdas wrote: »

Claire Byrne says there are 400,000 sixty to 69 year olds in the country, so that could easily use up the full quota with the two doses.

We're getting 480k doses of AZ in April and May, so all over 60s could receive a first dose in that time. It's really not so bad. Maybe the 50-59 groups could be opened up before the 60-69s finish, so we can keep the supply of Pfizer and Moderna moving.

Parachutes · 12-04-2021 9:55pm

Strumms wrote: »

Freedom isn’t a god given right...

We don’t have freedoms to....

1. Drive through a red light

2. Walk out of a supermarket without paying for what’s in our trolley

3. Play loud music at 3am

4. Attend and enroll in a college course without the necessary qualifying factors.

5. Assault people we dislike or disagree with or who have hurt us.

We are in this situation and we need to suck it up and continue on the pathway of safety and health for all. Tough times, tough measures, be a team player.

That’s the argument now. We have to continue lockdown because we don’t have complete freedom to murder people or drive through a red light :rolleyes:

Miike · 12-04-2021 9:57pm

funnydoggy wrote: »

The stat itself, is it accurate? :pac:

It's about as accurate as Bill Gates injecting us with 5G modems. What ever happened to that utter twat spouting about how COVID tests give you cancer? Must have been a Daily Mail reporter.

Tea drinker · 12-04-2021 9:58pm

Yonce wrote: »

I very much doubt it.
There's too many unknowns with this virus.
Do we even know how long the vaccines work for?
I'd say masks etc will be around for a good while, and packing out places, I could be just negative but I can't see it

We don't know how long they work for, but the antibodies decline after 6 months.
What does that mean for protection... might as well ask a taxi driver

Miike · 12-04-2021 9:59pm

Tea drinker wrote: »

We don't know how long they work for, but the antibodies decline after 6 months.
What does that mean for protection... might as well ask a taxi driver

You know the immune system is slightly more complex than antibodies, yes?

vienne86 · 12-04-2021 10:00pm

Beasty wrote: »

Agreed

:eek:

I'm in that cohort!

vienne86 · 12-04-2021 10:04pm

Kingston Mills on Claire Byrne saying 60-69 year olds might be wondering how come under 60s get mrna, over 69s get mrna, why the hell are 60-69s only being given AZ.....:eek:

Marty Bird · 12-04-2021 10:05pm

Beasty what did you do to the thread ? I was on one are vaccines the way out and it’s gone now

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-04-2021 10:07pm

Marty Bird wrote: »

Beasty what did you do to the thread ? I was on one are vaccines the way out and it’s gone now

Vaccine threads get merged into this one big megathread, it saves having 20 different threads about the same subject.

12-04-2021 10:07pm

Marty Bird wrote: »

Beasty what did you do to the thread ? I was on one are vaccines the way out and it’s gone now

Phew....thought it was just my phone gone a bit rogue

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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