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Belfast Disturbances

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24567…60

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    #32
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Eugh people outside NI don’t look at this the way we do. They don’t think about the real world impact of the protocol, the loss of jobs, the loss of choice, the tariffs, the constant forms, the checks etc.

    They see it as a competition between Unionism and Nationalism and the U.K. and Europe.

    Real people on the ground are affected by this protocol.

    Continual blame and forcing the entire population of NI to suffer is wrong, and not the right approach. If you want to punish us, what does that say about you?

    That you HATE Unionism and want to cripple Northern Ireland.


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    #33
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    On the Unionist resistance to the NI protocol:

    Is it more of a symbolic problem rather than a practical one?
    Because they were all in support of some technology to get over the hard border issue.

    Is it a problem of a perceived weakening of the link with GB, or one that poses real risk to businesses?
    Or both?

    I am resistent to it because I don’t believe in trade barriers with the rest of my country. Some would definitely believe that it’s an attack on us.

    - We didn’t get to vote on it.
    - Unionist people weren’t consulted.
    - Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.

    I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all.

    They will ignore this violence, but have used Irish nationalist violence to support this idea.

    I think many just feel that this has been brought in under our feet without any compromise or consultation from the community.

    I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.


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    #34
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Well, exactly.

    Those loyal have never really trusted the government of the UK.
    Hence the siege mentality.

    Remember the strikes in the 70s?
    (the ones that brought down Stormont)

    the strikes in the 70s were because them fecken taigs might get some form of representation. they're fighting their own support this time because they've been let down by the people they claim want them. i dont know how they can claim to be loyalists if they dont trust the british government


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    #35
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    A dangerous illusion.
    The conflict will never be solved by oppression.

    A community of people with a history they see worth fighting for is not 'a grouping'.

    I agree. But many outside NI see the NI Protocol that way, they think we should all suffer.

    They say “U.K. parliament voted for this”, yes they did. But what use is an MP from Hemel Hempstead to me, they don’t understand NI, and they don’t care about the impacts of this Protocol.

    This protocol is unsustainable in its current form. It’s just too rigid and uncompromising.


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    #36
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    I am resistent to it because I don’t believe in trade barriers with the rest of my country. Some would definitely believe that it’s an attack on the British identity and Union.

    - We didn’t get to vote on it.
    - Unionist people weren’t consulted.
    - Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.
    - There are more checks between NI and GB than anywhere else at EU borders.
    - Many feel resentful at the smug remarks from nationalists and others. The current rhetoric is to talk this down. So basically to lie that the protocol has no impact. Well I have seen evidence working in retail, ordering online and shopping. I don’t like politicians who lie.

    I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all. Despite the humgungous amount of trade.

    They will ignore this violence, but have used Irish nationalist violence to support this idea.

    I think many just feel that this has been brought in under our feet without any compromise or consultation from the community.

    I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.

    I think if there was some efforts to limit the protocol, (not grace periods) and to try to and be more understanding to NI issues people on the ground might be more accepting. I know I would.

    However, at the moment I feel resentful.


    With all due respect I find your post unbelievable.

    You have no say because you are part of the UK that voted on the whole to leave the EU. And you have no say because the DUP fell in line with British nationalism. There was no other unionist voice because you don't vote for another unionist voice. If you feel Ian Paisley and Gregory campbell didn't represent you stop voting for racist corrupt politicians. Generally speaking men like those don't have your best interests at heart.

    As for smugness from Irish nationalists. I am Irish ..not a nationalist and I don't care whether there is a UI or not. It is all the same to me.

    I think you are simply perceiving frustration on behalf of the Irish as smugness.

    Btw the Irish cabinet and the Irish media is NOT ignoring this. Whereas the UK media is as they ignore EVERYTHING that happens in NI.


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    #37
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    They are not fighting for a history they are fighting for their history of privilege.

    And in reality they are REALLY just fighting over the fact that goods coming from the uk have to go through customs checks before entering the north. Which is ridiculous.



    They need to wake up and realize most of the people on this island are not going away and learn to live with the reality of the situation.

    Would you say it’s ridiculous if their was customs checks within the republic? No?

    It sounds as though you don’t respect the British identity in Northern Ireland.

    It’s not ridiculous btw, this protocol has had a big impact on supermarkets and businesses in NI. It’s not a joke.


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    #38
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Eugh people outside NI don’t look at this the way we do. They don’t think about the real world impact of the protocol, the loss of jobs, the loss of choice, the tariffs, the constant forms, the checks etc.

    They see it as a competition between Unionism and Nationalism and the U.K. and Europe.

    Real people on the ground are affected by this protocol.

    Continual blame and forcing the entire population of NI to suffer is wrong, and not the right approach. If you want to punish us, what does that say about you?

    That you HATE Unionism and want to cripple Northern Ireland.

    Did you vote for or against brexit?

    I dont get why - when the north voted against it, and the only people who are forcing this on you are those who voted for it that you can claim its because people hate unionism. the people who know unionism didnt want this. its the people in the rest of the UK - who dont know anything about unionism - that gave you brexit - which is what we're seeing now.


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    #39
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    maccored wrote: »
    Did you vote for or against brexit?

    I dont get why - when the north voted against it, and the only people who are forcing this on you are those who voted for it that you can claim its because people hate unionism. the people who know unionism didnt want this. its the people in the rest of the UK - who dont know anything about unionism - that gave you brexit - which is what we're seeing now.

    But so what about the past. It’s time to move on and work on helping NI.


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    #40
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    With all due respect I find your post unbelievable.

    You have no say because you are part of the UK that voted on the whole to leave the EU. And you have no say because the DUP fell in line with British nationalism. There was no other unionist voice because you don't vote for another unionist voice. If you feel Ian Paisley and Gregory campbell didn't represent you stop voting for racist corrupt politicians. Generally speaking men like those don't have your best interests at heart.

    As for smugness from Irish nationalists. I am Irish ..not a nationalist and I don't care whether there is a UI or not. It is all the same to me.

    I think you are simply perceiving frustration on behalf of the Irish as smugness.

    Btw the Irish cabinet and the Irish media is NOT ignoring this. Whereas the UK media is as they ignore EVERYTHING that happens in NI.

    Nobody had a say. We didn’t get to vote on it.

    And Irish politicians are doing nothing to help limit the impact of the protocol, rather they want a stricter implementation.


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    #41
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    But so what about the past. It’s time to move on and work on helping NI.

    the past? the effects of brexit are happening now - thats not the past. yes you cant cry over spilt milk - but you need to take responsibility for spilling it (thats if you voted for brexit)


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    #42
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    maccored wrote: »
    the past? the effects of brexit are happening now - thats not the past.

    Well duh... it’s called working on the protocol


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    #43
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Would you say it’s ridiculous if their was customs checks within the republic? No?

    It sounds as though you don’t respect the British identity in Northern Ireland.

    Yes I would say it was bloody ridiculous. Because I think Irish nationalists are bloody ridiculous too.

    Do I respect British Identity in NI? I respect some unionists. I don't respect the DUP homophobes or people who riot.

    Please stop pretending this is an issue about which we can justify violence. Its not.

    This is not the 60's and soldiers are not shooting these people in peaceful protests. Not that republican violence was ever justified.

    Its a tough situation for sure. But really this reaction is unjustifiable.


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    I am resistent to it because I don’t believe in trade barriers with the rest of my country. Some would definitely believe that it’s an attack on the British identity and Union.

    - We didn’t get to vote on it.
    - Unionist people weren’t consulted.
    - Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.
    - There are more checks between NI and GB than anywhere else at EU borders.
    - Many feel resentful at the smug remarks from nationalists and others. The current rhetoric is to talk this down. So basically to lie that the protocol has no impact. Well I have seen evidence working in retail, ordering online and shopping. I don’t like politicians who lie.

    I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all. Despite the humgungous amount of trade.

    They will ignore this violence, but have used Irish nationalist violence to support this idea.

    I think many just feel that this has been brought in under our feet without any compromise or consultation from the community.

    I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.

    I think if there was some efforts to limit the protocol, (not grace periods) and to try to and be more understanding to NI issues people on the ground might be more accepting. I know I would.

    However, at the moment I feel resentful.


    Resentful? Your resent seems to be aimed at the EU, and not at the people who dropped the NI population right in it - the British government, and in particular the sexually incontinent pathologically lying blonde bimbo who chairs meetings of the Cabinet in London.


    There are meant to be no trade barriers within the UK, but there are. Why? Mainly because the UK government have failed to implement almost every single measure they told the EU they would implement to make trade flow more freely. They simply haven't implemented the administrative arrangements and system changes they said they would. I'm not speculating as to why, but they have. That's why they had to hand the EU their "road map".


    Once those changes are made two things happen. One is that checks on movement of goods between NI and GB get a lot easier. The other is that we then see the real level of trade friction. The EU believes there will be very little. The official position of the sexually incontinent pathologically lying blonde bimbo is that there will be none. But once we know what it is the British government and the EU Commission can try to fix the problem. The Irish Foreign Minister has said so. The EU Commission Brexit chief has said so.



    Unionists in NI are either being played or being shat on by the Tories. My bet is on the latter.


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    #45
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Yes I would say it was bloody ridiculous. Because I think Irish nationalists are bloody ridiculous too.

    Do I respect British Identity in NI? I respect some unionists. I don't respect the DUP homophobes or people who riot.

    Please stop pretending this is an issue about which we can justify violence. Its not.

    This is not the 60's and soldiers are not shooting these people in peaceful protests.

    Its a tough situation for sure. But really this reaction is unjustifiable.

    I’m sorry? When did I EVER justify violence. How dare you


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    #46
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Well duh... it’s called working on the protocol

    but that was agreed beforehand .... too late to try and change it now


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    #47
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    maccored wrote: »
    but that was agreed beforehand .... too late to try and change it now

    Ok so we all suffer. That’s good that you have cleared that up.

    Totally unsustainable long term.

    I’m out cba talking to people who have no empathy and just want us all suffer. Goodnight.


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    #48
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Well duh... it’s called working on the protocol
    If you think anything is going to be changed or worked on you are naive. this is it.

    The EU is not going to change anything. NI is not in the EU so no you are correct ...they don't really feel responsible for it. You are in the UK ..the UK is responsible for NI in their eyes.

    I get it ..unionists feel humiliated. Let down by their own. Dishonored. Resentful.

    But these are feelings.

    Everyone told the UK that brexit would be terrible economically for the north as well as politically. They knew.
    I’m out cba talking to people who have no empathy and just want us all suffer. Goodnight.

    Everyone here tried to stop the UK from bringing about this situation precisely BECAUSE they didn't want people to suffer in NI.

    This problem DOESNT have a solution.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Ok so we all suffer. That’s good that you have cleared that up.

    Totally unsustainable long term.

    I’m out cba talking to people who have no empathy and just want us all suffer. Goodnight.


    Empathy does not equal rolling over and saying that your position is right. It's not right. Unionists in NI need to start holding the right people accountable, instead of finding "themmuns" to be blaming.


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    #50
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Ok so we all suffer. That’s good that you have cleared that up.

    Totally unsustainable long term.

    I’m out cba talking to people who have no empathy and just want us all suffer. Goodnight.

    aye - thanks arlene and co!

    Im not for a minute saying you have anything to do with the DUP, but if DUP voters are complaining then their angst should be aimed at the leadership of the DUP who walked them (and the north) into this. thats why its happening - not because of any other reason


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    #51
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,947 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    - We didn’t get to vote on it.
    - Unionist people weren’t consulted.
    - Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.
    - There are more checks between NI and GB than anywhere else at EU borders.
    - Many feel resentful at the smug remarks from nationalists and others. The current rhetoric is to talk this down. So basically to lie that the protocol has no impact. Well I have seen evidence working in retail, ordering online and shopping. I don’t like politicians who lie.

    I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all. Despite the humgungous amount of trade.
    1. Yes you did. NI voted against Brexit, but hey "will of the people" and all that. Whether you like it or not, the UK voted for Brexit.

    2. Unionists are represented by the DUP, who were consulted and supported BoJo continually. Their incompetence is the fault of those who elected them.

    3. Irish cabinet look after the people in the republic first and foremost. Violence from organised terrorist groups in the Republic is their main concern, not a bunch of yahoo's on the streets of Belfast.

    4. I'm not sure if that's true, since the mainland UK isn't checking anything coming from Europe right now.

    5. Smug remarks is more an I told you so, from people who are blue in the face saying that Brexit was a mistake from the start and completely unworkable.

    6. Talking things down is the only option right now, since BoJo et al. have completely checked out of helping any communities in post Brexit Britain. They've dropped helping fishing communities, dropped helping small bbusinesses, the whole thing is a mess.

    7. The EU set out it's stall 4 years ago. Brexit is a British project. It's not the responsibility of the EU to sort out British problems, such as respecting it's international agreements and treaties. This was all flagged years ago and written off as Project Fear and Remainer tears.

    The Irish Sea border and NI protocol is the British response to their unique situation, not the fault of the EU.


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    #52
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    I guess you all think NI should burn to the ground.


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    #53
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    I guess you all think NI should burn to the ground.

    i wouldnt - all my family live there


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    #54
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,947 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    I guess you all think NI should burn to the ground.

    The people of NI need to look to their leaders and Westminster. They are the source of your problems.

    Unfortunately it's easier to blame nameless faceless "unelected EU Bureaucrats" so most do that instead.


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    #55
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    I guess you all think NI should burn to the ground.
    No we truly don't. We truly never want the troubles back. We tried to remind the UK constantly of what the GFA meant. The people have been hurt by the troubles. We warned the UK of the economical fall out and that the border ideas they were suggesting would be unworkable.
    You realize any time the troubles ignite it spills over here to the border counties and organized crime EVERYWHERE in the Republic.

    Most of use have friends or family in NI.

    If we didn't care would we have tried to prevent this happening?

    Would the Irish Tsaoiseach be calling for a reset between the UK and the EU today in the papers??

    I mean really would he?

    All the saber rattling is coming from Boris. Our politicians are talking FAR more calmer than is the general feeling towards the uk in Ireland at the moment.

    After NI the republic suffers the most from this we have the most to lose far more than the UK.

    It does seem that the tories don't care if NI burns though. And it seems like the UK press is ignoring it.

    I hope that Unionists start to talk about how being british is MORE than being a tory or a dup supporter so they can hold these two to account over this.


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    #56
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,097 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.

    Either you want to be governed by the UK, or you don't. Tough luck if your chosen system of government does something you don't agree with. That's democracy...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #57
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Either you want to be governed by the UK, or you don't. Tough luck if your chosen system of government does something you don't agree with. That's democracy...

    Yet it's the opposite of it.
    It seems that the government in London cares not a jot for the regions.


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    #58
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Yet it's the opposite of it.
    It seems that the government in London cares not a jot for the regions.
    The people largely do not either. Or are at least blatantly unaware of them.


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    #59
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,947 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Yet it's the opposite of it.
    It seems that the government in London cares not a jot for the regions.

    The Tory's won by a landslide in the last elections. As far as they're concerned, they re doing a great job.

    At least our lads know they're on extremely thin ice.


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    #60
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    I am resistent to it because I don’t believe in trade barriers with the rest of my country. Some would definitely believe that it’s an attack on us.

    - We didn’t get to vote on it.
    - Unionist people weren’t consulted.
    - Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.

    I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all.

    They will ignore this violence, but have used Irish nationalist violence to support this idea.

    I think many just feel that this has been brought in under our feet without any compromise or consultation from the community.

    I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.

    I understand, and agree.
    But Brexit was ultimately a decision of the people of the UK.

    Other nations should not have to bear the pain of that decision.


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    #61
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,097 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    They say “U.K. parliament voted for this”, yes they did. But what use is an MP from Hemel Hempstead to me, they don’t understand NI

    Yet you choose to be governed by them. Scotland is heading for the exit door, and if Wales and NI had any sense they'd be doing the same.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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