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Belfast Disturbances

  • 03-04-2021 10:52am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 48 ✭✭✭ Lougho


    So approaching a disjointed marching season in North of Ireland for a second year running, Sandyrow and The waterside in Derry have now erupted with violent clashes.

    Sandyrow seen officers injured and it is being blamed on the Irish sea border, within the community it seems the Royal bar leadership were arching up the tensions the past few weeks with banners at the front of the bar.

    Is the LCC committed to non violent means or is it more Smoke and mirrors from the UDA and UVF. Donegal pass under the UVF and Sandyrow both came to a standstill last night.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,266 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    The LCC have imo been quite strident in their threats and actions regarding violence if there is no removal of the Irish Sea Border.
    Their "commitment" to peace is tenuous at best and the fact that Unionism now finds itself at odds with her majesty's government and with the PSNI is quite telling of how precarious a position they have backed themselves into.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 48 ✭✭✭ Lougho


    David Campbell of the LCC reaffirmed the No violence was the only way forward to Good morning ulster one month and a half ago.

    But there is footage doing the rounds with UVF south Belfast top man Eddie Rainey's son dean involved in the trouble.

    So I would be questioning where the UVF are with this if a senior figures family are openly involved and with the Royal being a UDA bar and the mantra being peddled from there.

    It is worrying developments coming close to silly season.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭ McMurphy


    banie01 wrote: »
    The LCC have imo been quite strident in their threats and actions regarding violence if there is no removal of the Irish Sea Border.
    Their "commitment" to peace is tenuous at best and the fact that Unionism now finds itself at odds with her majesty's government and with the PSNI is quite telling of how precarious a position they have backed themselves into.

    Sums up exactly what I've been asking for years ref a "threat of violence" from unionists in any UI.

    What, they're going to attack us because the Brits withdrew because of a democratic vote and international agreement?

    What will their aim be, to make a united Irish govt withdraw? To where?

    Will they attack HMG and security services in the perceived hope of reinvading, and partitioning the isle again?

    Fcuk sake, the dopes voted for what they have now, they were paramount in cheerleading Brexit, and despite everyone and their dogs warning they'd be shafted by Boris and co, they championed it anyway.

    Now they're kicking up a fuss about it because the Brits left them swinging?

    Eejits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,266 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    The LCC letter of early march warning of the destruction of the NI peace process if the protocol isn't rescinded is a clear and obvious threat to return to violence.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/04/brexit-northern-ireland-loyalist-armies-renounce-good-friday-agreement

    The actions last night, and in the earlier threats to port staff and infrastructure are a ramping up of that rhetoric.
    It's quite clear that this was going to be the result of Brexit as it was presented and pursued.
    The D.U.P and other unionist parties campaigned for Brexit and the only way I can see any upside at all for a Brexit as they envisioned it?
    Would be that the ROI/NI border returned and it was a Republican threat that they hoped would solidify unionism against that "threat".

    Instead, the EU held the UK to their obligations, the UK threw unionism under the bus and now it's the Loyalists that are agitating and threatening.

    The LCC made quite clear their stance in the March letter.
    Their implicit threat is quite clear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭ Montage of Feck


    Nobody with any bit of class or ambition could possibly be proud to consider themselves a loyalist. The last angry tantrum of a class of people who have found themselves at the dead-end of history.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭ FTA69


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Sums up exactly what I've been asking for years ref a "threat of violence" from unionists in any UI.

    What, they're going to attack us because the Brits withdrew because of a democratic vote and international agreement?

    What will their aim be, to make a united Irish govt withdraw? To where?

    Will they attack HMG and security services in the perceived hope of reinvading, and partitioning the isle again?

    Fcuk sake, the dopes voted for what they have now, they were paramount in cheerleading Brexit, and despite everyone and their dogs warning they'd be shafted by Boris and co, they championed it anyway.

    Now they're kicking up a fuss about it because the Brits left them swinging?

    Eejits.

    I try and understand Unionism and where it’s coming from but your analysis is spot on really. At the end of the day Unionism is a reactionary ideology predicated on a largely outdated ‘siege mentality’. The Orange state is gone, the economic privilege has gone along with the industry. What was once a key part of the British state has long been a backwater and with Brexit the strategic vision of the British state has changed. What started out as a populist gamble by a section of the Tory Party has now led to a massive diversion of political and national priorities for the UK.

    The irony was that under the GFA a few years ago the union was largely secure for a couple of generations to come, now the writing on the wall is almost inevitable and Loyalism is doing the only thing that it’s capable of doing - reacting and kicking off. As a political ideology it’s incapable of vision or seeing the bigger picture. It’s a throwback these days and it is being completely sidelined by the forces that initially fostered it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭ Patrick2010


    Imagine how this would kick off in the situation of a United Ireland, best leave them to sort it between themselves. We have enough problems ourselves to sort out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,245 ✭✭✭✭ briany


    Imagine how this would kick off in the situation of a United Ireland

    They could F off with that and even the threat of it. They wouldn't even have moral equivalence for it, as the vast majority of Irish Nationalists and Irish Republicans have accepted that NI is part of the UK, as things stand, since the GFA and a decent degree of economic and social parity has come into being between the communities. If the constitutional status of NI changed through an agreed-upon democratic mechanism, they have no righteous cause to take up arms simply because of that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,023 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    On the plus side on the RTE News report just now all those throwing petrol bombs and fireworks were wearing face masks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,666 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    What are the 13 and 14 year olds arrested angry about?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭ Normal One


    This is what Arlene & Co have been fanning the flames for over the last couple of months. I hope she's proud of herself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,490 ✭✭✭ igCorcaigh


    What are the 13 and 14 year olds arrested angry about?

    Trade relations.
    The stuff that fires up every young teenager.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,666 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    Send in the gardai...


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,490 ✭✭✭ igCorcaigh




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,490 ✭✭✭ igCorcaigh


    Unionists in NI, sold out by Brexiteers and disinterested Tories.
    How else could it have been?

    A hard border was never acceptable to ROI or EU.
    What a mess :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,490 ✭✭✭ igCorcaigh


    On the Unionist resistance to the NI protocol:

    Is it more of a symbolic problem rather than a practical one?
    Because they were all in support of some technology to get over the hard border issue.

    Is it a problem of a perceived weakening of the link with GB, or one that poses real risk to businesses?
    Or both?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭ maccored


    Normal One wrote: »
    This is what Arlene & Co have been fanning the flames for over the last couple of months. I hope she's proud of herself.

    thats the norm in unionism. fan the flames - and then (im pretty sure) she'll be condemning it whilst saying more of it will happen. Paisley was at the same lark in the Ulster Says No! days


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭ maccored


    Imagine how this would kick off in the situation of a United Ireland, best leave them to sort it between themselves. We have enough problems ourselves to sort out.

    Loyalists have relied on the likes of the PSNI and the British Army. Without their help, I doubt the loyalists could do much. They got away with a lot in the north over the years because blind eyes were turned and support, information (and government arms) were freely given - by the same people they are now rioting against. Death throes of a grouping going extinct


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,490 ✭✭✭ igCorcaigh


    maccored wrote: »
    Loyalists have relied on the likes of the PSNI and the British Army. Without their help, I doubt the loyalists could do much. They got away with a lot in the north over the years because blind eyes were turned and support, information (and government arms) were freely given - by the same people they are now rioting against. Death throes of a grouping going extinct

    A dangerous illusion.
    The conflict will never be solved by oppression.

    A community of people with a history they see worth fighting for is not 'a grouping'.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 72,023 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    On the Unionist resistance to the NI protocol:

    Is it more of a symbolic problem rather than a practical one?
    Because they were all in support of some technology to get over the hard border issue.

    Is it a problem of a perceived weakening of the link with GB, or one that poses real risk to businesses?
    Or both?
    I think it only hit home to those on the street when they found odering stuff online from UK was going to be problematic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭ maccored


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    A dangerous illusion.
    The conflict will never be solved by oppression.

    A community of people with a history they see worth fighting for is not 'a grouping'.

    who is oppressing the loyalists? 'loyalists' - who exist only to be loyal to the crown ... which is now shafting them. they need to rebrand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,490 ✭✭✭ igCorcaigh


    maccored wrote: »
    who is oppressing the loyalists? 'loyalists' - who exist only to be loyal to the crown ... which is now shafting them. they need to rebrand.

    Well, exactly.

    Those loyal have never really trusted the government of the UK.
    Hence the siege mentality.

    Remember the strikes in the 70s?
    (the ones that brought down Stormont)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,619 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes


    Yep. And nothing about it in the UK press. Its as if its not going on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,619 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    A dangerous illusion.
    The conflict will never be solved by oppression.

    A community of people with a history they see worth fighting for is not 'a grouping'.
    They are not fighting for a history they are fighting for their history of privilege.

    And in reality they are REALLY just fighting over the fact that goods coming from the uk have to go through customs checks before entering the north. Which is ridiculous.
    Hence the siege mentality.

    They need to wake up and realize most of the people on this island are not going away and learn to live with the reality of the situation.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭ Nqp15hhu


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Sums up exactly what I've been asking for years ref a "threat of violence" from unionists in any UI.

    What, they're going to attack us because the Brits withdrew because of a democratic vote and international agreement?

    What will their aim be, to make a united Irish govt withdraw? To where?

    Will they attack HMG and security services in the perceived hope of reinvading, and partitioning the isle again?

    Fcuk sake, the dopes voted for what they have now, they were paramount in cheerleading Brexit, and despite everyone and their dogs warning they'd be shafted by Boris and co, they championed it anyway.

    Now they're kicking up a fuss about it because the Brits left them swinging?

    Eejits.

    Have some empathy. We’re ALL suffering from trade barriers. It’s not one community.

    The NI Protocol was thrown on us. Nobody here voted for it or asked for it, no matter what you say.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭ Nqp15hhu


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Unionists in NI, sold out by Brexiteers and disinterested Tories.
    How else could it have been?

    A hard border was never acceptable to ROI or EU.
    What a mess :(

    It is a mess you’re right. NI is a nation of compromises and taking a hard one sided approach was always going to end badly.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭ Nqp15hhu


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    On the Unionist resistance to the NI protocol:

    Is it more of a symbolic problem rather than a practical one?
    Because they were all in support of some technology to get over the hard border issue.

    Is it a problem of a perceived weakening of the link with GB, or one that poses real risk to businesses?
    Or both?

    I am resistent to it because I don’t believe in trade barriers with the rest of my country. Some would definitely believe that it’s an attack on the British identity and Union.

    - We didn’t get to vote on it.
    - Unionist people weren’t consulted.
    - Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.
    - There are more checks between NI and GB than anywhere else at EU borders.
    - Many feel resentful at the smug remarks from nationalists and others. The current rhetoric is to talk this down. So basically to lie that the protocol has no impact. Well I have seen evidence working in retail, ordering online and shopping. I don’t like politicians who lie.

    I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all. Despite the humgungous amount of trade.

    They will ignore this violence, but have used Irish nationalist violence to support this idea.

    I think many just feel that this has been brought in under our feet without any compromise or consultation from the community.

    I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,619 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »

    The NI Protocol was thrown on us. Nobody here voted for it or asked for it, no matter what you say.
    I think you need to take some responsibility for half the community voting for a party that was selling brexit snake oil though namely the DUP. (along with corruption and homophobic snake oil).

    The DUP NEVER even attempted to explain NI and the situation to the UK nor the politicians there. And the unionist community need to realize they are now a part of the problem.

    You want to know why the NI protocol was forced on you?

    Because the DUP swallowed it whole for you as they did brexit.

    Its difficult to have empathy with a party like the DUP and people who vote for them.

    They are very much responsible for what is happening now. EVERYONE told them it would happen. They said brexit would be great.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭ Nqp15hhu


    Eugh people outside NI don’t look at this the way we do. They don’t think about the real world impact of the protocol, the loss of jobs, the loss of choice, the tariffs, the constant forms, the checks etc.

    They see it as a competition between Unionism and Nationalism and the U.K. and Europe.

    Real people on the ground are affected by this protocol.

    Continual blame and forcing the entire population of NI to suffer is wrong, and not the right approach. If you want to punish us, what does that say about you?

    That you HATE Unionism and want to cripple Northern Ireland.

    I’m sick of hearing about the DUP did this, the DUP did that. Enough about them. And work to help the people in NI


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