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Belfast Disturbances

Lougho

So approaching a disjointed marching season in North of Ireland for a second year running, Sandyrow and The waterside in Derry have now erupted with violent clashes.

Sandyrow seen officers injured and it is being blamed on the Irish sea border, within the community it seems the Royal bar leadership were arching up the tensions the past few weeks with banners at the front of the bar.

Is the LCC committed to non violent means or is it more Smoke and mirrors from the UDA and UVF. Donegal pass under the UVF and Sandyrow both came to a standstill last night.

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EDit

BluePlanet wrote: »

Private school boys, not public.

in the UK the terms are interchangeable

BluePlanet

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

It was ignored, just like anything else because Brexit is a parlour game between a bunch of overgrown public school boys and girls.

Private school boys, not public.

GazzaL

Any truth in the rumour that Arlene Foster is in the 'RA? It's the only explanation for her leading the Unionist backing of Brexit.

NeuralNetwork

What's seen from outside the bubble is quite simply that a bunch of English nationalists rode roughshod over one of the most fragile, unstable and, in recent history, one of the most violent regions in Western Europe that had been just about calmed down, in large part due to the EU frameworks and single market making the conflicts irrelevant.

There's no coming back from that. This is entirely on the Brexiteers. They've imperilled the agreements that people put decades of work into to achieve a peace in Northern Ireland.

This was explained, warned about and shouted from the rooftops about by many people on all sides of Northern Irish society and those genuinely involved the peace process over the decades, as well as countless academics, journalists, politicians and observers.

It was ignored, just like anything else because Brexit is a parlour game between a bunch of overgrown public school boys and girls.

Northern Ireland was barely even stable after the 'Troubles'. The sheer stupidity and callousness of what's been done over the last few years just cannot be underestimated.

History will certainly not be kind to any of them. They've undone so much and will quite likely be the undoing of the UK itself.

Junkyard Tom

The Tories have pursued a version of Brexit so economically thick it tries to place Britain further outside the EU's economic ecosystem for goods than New Zealand and the DUP aided them at every turn. Now Unionists want Ireland to take the hit on it? Do they realise how patently arrogant and privileged that sounds to the rest of us?

If Britain cares about the north and unionists it will make agreements with the EU that ease the issues in the Irish Sea.

ILoveYourVibes

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Does unionism really represent your best interests?

It does though. Or it did. Maybe not the interests of the private economy. But for the state economy and civic issues it has always represented the best interests of Unionists a lot of the time over the interests of nationalists. Even leaving tribalism aside that much is true.

When covid is over they will want to march again and other things will crop up and unionism and the UK govt will again represent maybe not their actual BEST interests and needs ..but their base desires and wants.

Hotblack Desiato

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

They say “U.K. parliament voted for this”, yes they did. But what use is an MP from Hemel Hempstead to me, they don’t understand NI, and they don’t care about the impacts of this Protocol.

Put history and tribalism and religion to one side.

Does unionism really represent your best interests?

Since partition NI has spent 100 years going backwards economically.

GB politicians don't care about NI and increasingly resent funding it.

Although I have to say I'm really not looking forward to funding it either... I'd vote no to a unification referendum purely on economic grounds.

ILoveYourVibes

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Nonetheless, taking the UK as a whole, that's democracy.

Of course what renders it even more farcical is that none of the main GB parties run candidates in NI.

They do!

The Tories contested 4 seats in NI last general election.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-2019/northern-ireland-conservatives-to-contest-four-seats-in-general-election-38686719.html

Lab refused to though last elections. But they did in last elections before that.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/labour-document-rules-out-running-candidates-in-ni-as-irresponsible-38515298.html

They never get anywhere though.

Hotblack Desiato

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Yet it's the opposite of it.
It seems that the government in London cares not a jot for the regions.

Nonetheless, taking the UK as a whole, that's democracy.

Of course what renders it even more farcical is that none of the main GB parties run candidates in NI.

ILoveYourVibes

Ireland was just minding its own business ...WHEN ...yet its our fault.

Kermit.de.frog

The north was always going to be a place apart with Brexit.

Unionists say it was a UK vote even though a majority voted to remain.

OK well the flip side of that is that the UK has decided to partially amputate a part of it to get it's way.

Can't complain now. Can't say it was a UK vote and at the same time complain about UK actions.

ILoveYourVibes

Padre_Pio wrote: »

At least our lads know they're on extremely thin ice.

Do they though??

I reckon FF does but they still got in. FG not so much.

Hotblack Desiato

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

They say “U.K. parliament voted for this”, yes they did. But what use is an MP from Hemel Hempstead to me, they don’t understand NI

Yet you choose to be governed by them. Scotland is heading for the exit door, and if Wales and NI had any sense they'd be doing the same.

igCorcaigh

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I am resistent to it because I don’t believe in trade barriers with the rest of my country. Some would definitely believe that it’s an attack on us.

- We didn’t get to vote on it.
- Unionist people weren’t consulted.
- Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.

I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all.

They will ignore this violence, but have used Irish nationalist violence to support this idea.

I think many just feel that this has been brought in under our feet without any compromise or consultation from the community.

I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.

I understand, and agree.
But Brexit was ultimately a decision of the people of the UK.

Other nations should not have to bear the pain of that decision.

Padre_Pio

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Yet it's the opposite of it.
It seems that the government in London cares not a jot for the regions.

The Tory's won by a landslide in the last elections. As far as they're concerned, they re doing a great job.

At least our lads know they're on extremely thin ice.

ILoveYourVibes

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Yet it's the opposite of it.
It seems that the government in London cares not a jot for the regions.

The people largely do not either. Or are at least blatantly unaware of them.

igCorcaigh

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Either you want to be governed by the UK, or you don't. Tough luck if your chosen system of government does something you don't agree with. That's democracy...

Yet it's the opposite of it.
It seems that the government in London cares not a jot for the regions.

Hotblack Desiato

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.

Either you want to be governed by the UK, or you don't. Tough luck if your chosen system of government does something you don't agree with. That's democracy...

ILoveYourVibes

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I guess you all think NI should burn to the ground.

No we truly don't. We truly never want the troubles back. We tried to remind the UK constantly of what the GFA meant. The people have been hurt by the troubles. We warned the UK of the economical fall out and that the border ideas they were suggesting would be unworkable.
You realize any time the troubles ignite it spills over here to the border counties and organized crime EVERYWHERE in the Republic.

Most of use have friends or family in NI.

If we didn't care would we have tried to prevent this happening?

Would the Irish Tsaoiseach be calling for a reset between the UK and the EU today in the papers??

I mean really would he?

All the saber rattling is coming from Boris. Our politicians are talking FAR more calmer than is the general feeling towards the uk in Ireland at the moment.

After NI the republic suffers the most from this we have the most to lose far more than the UK.

It does seem that the tories don't care if NI burns though. And it seems like the UK press is ignoring it.

I hope that Unionists start to talk about how being british is MORE than being a tory or a dup supporter so they can hold these two to account over this.

Padre_Pio

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I guess you all think NI should burn to the ground.

The people of NI need to look to their leaders and Westminster. They are the source of your problems.

Unfortunately it's easier to blame nameless faceless "unelected EU Bureaucrats" so most do that instead.

maccored

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I guess you all think NI should burn to the ground.

i wouldnt - all my family live there

Nqp15hhu

I guess you all think NI should burn to the ground.

Padre_Pio

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

- We didn’t get to vote on it.
- Unionist people weren’t consulted.
- Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.
- There are more checks between NI and GB than anywhere else at EU borders.
- Many feel resentful at the smug remarks from nationalists and others. The current rhetoric is to talk this down. So basically to lie that the protocol has no impact. Well I have seen evidence working in retail, ordering online and shopping. I don’t like politicians who lie.

I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all. Despite the humgungous amount of trade.

1. Yes you did. NI voted against Brexit, but hey "will of the people" and all that. Whether you like it or not, the UK voted for Brexit.

2. Unionists are represented by the DUP, who were consulted and supported BoJo continually. Their incompetence is the fault of those who elected them.

3. Irish cabinet look after the people in the republic first and foremost. Violence from organised terrorist groups in the Republic is their main concern, not a bunch of yahoo's on the streets of Belfast.

4. I'm not sure if that's true, since the mainland UK isn't checking anything coming from Europe right now.

5. Smug remarks is more an I told you so, from people who are blue in the face saying that Brexit was a mistake from the start and completely unworkable.

6. Talking things down is the only option right now, since BoJo et al. have completely checked out of helping any communities in post Brexit Britain. They've dropped helping fishing communities, dropped helping small bbusinesses, the whole thing is a mess.

7. The EU set out it's stall 4 years ago. Brexit is a British project. It's not the responsibility of the EU to sort out British problems, such as respecting it's international agreements and treaties. This was all flagged years ago and written off as Project Fear and Remainer tears.

The Irish Sea border and NI protocol is the British response to their unique situation, not the fault of the EU.

maccored

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Ok so we all suffer. That’s good that you have cleared that up.

Totally unsustainable long term.

I’m out cba talking to people who have no empathy and just want us all suffer. Goodnight.

aye - thanks arlene and co!

Im not for a minute saying you have anything to do with the DUP, but if DUP voters are complaining then their angst should be aimed at the leadership of the DUP who walked them (and the north) into this. thats why its happening - not because of any other reason

[Deleted User]

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Ok so we all suffer. That’s good that you have cleared that up.

Totally unsustainable long term.

I’m out cba talking to people who have no empathy and just want us all suffer. Goodnight.

Empathy does not equal rolling over and saying that your position is right. It's not right. Unionists in NI need to start holding the right people accountable, instead of finding "themmuns" to be blaming.

ILoveYourVibes

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Well duh... it’s called working on the protocol

If you think anything is going to be changed or worked on you are naive. this is it.

The EU is not going to change anything. NI is not in the EU so no you are correct ...they don't really feel responsible for it. You are in the UK ..the UK is responsible for NI in their eyes.

I get it ..unionists feel humiliated. Let down by their own. Dishonored. Resentful.

But these are feelings.

Everyone told the UK that brexit would be terrible economically for the north as well as politically. They knew.

I’m out cba talking to people who have no empathy and just want us all suffer. Goodnight.

Everyone here tried to stop the UK from bringing about this situation precisely BECAUSE they didn't want people to suffer in NI.

This problem DOESNT have a solution.

Nqp15hhu

maccored wrote: »

but that was agreed beforehand .... too late to try and change it now

Ok so we all suffer. That’s good that you have cleared that up.

Totally unsustainable long term.

I’m out cba talking to people who have no empathy and just want us all suffer. Goodnight.

maccored

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Well duh... it’s called working on the protocol

but that was agreed beforehand .... too late to try and change it now

Nqp15hhu

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes I would say it was bloody ridiculous. Because I think Irish nationalists are bloody ridiculous too.

Do I respect British Identity in NI? I respect some unionists. I don't respect the DUP homophobes or people who riot.

Please stop pretending this is an issue about which we can justify violence. Its not.

This is not the 60's and soldiers are not shooting these people in peaceful protests.

Its a tough situation for sure. But really this reaction is unjustifiable.

I’m sorry? When did I EVER justify violence. How dare you

[Deleted User]

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I am resistent to it because I don’t believe in trade barriers with the rest of my country. Some would definitely believe that it’s an attack on the British identity and Union.

- We didn’t get to vote on it.
- Unionist people weren’t consulted.
- Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.
- There are more checks between NI and GB than anywhere else at EU borders.
- Many feel resentful at the smug remarks from nationalists and others. The current rhetoric is to talk this down. So basically to lie that the protocol has no impact. Well I have seen evidence working in retail, ordering online and shopping. I don’t like politicians who lie.

I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all. Despite the humgungous amount of trade.

They will ignore this violence, but have used Irish nationalist violence to support this idea.

I think many just feel that this has been brought in under our feet without any compromise or consultation from the community.

I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.

I think if there was some efforts to limit the protocol, (not grace periods) and to try to and be more understanding to NI issues people on the ground might be more accepting. I know I would.

However, at the moment I feel resentful.

Resentful? Your resent seems to be aimed at the EU, and not at the people who dropped the NI population right in it - the British government, and in particular the sexually incontinent pathologically lying blonde bimbo who chairs meetings of the Cabinet in London.

There are meant to be no trade barriers within the UK, but there are. Why? Mainly because the UK government have failed to implement almost every single measure they told the EU they would implement to make trade flow more freely. They simply haven't implemented the administrative arrangements and system changes they said they would. I'm not speculating as to why, but they have. That's why they had to hand the EU their "road map".

Once those changes are made two things happen. One is that checks on movement of goods between NI and GB get a lot easier. The other is that we then see the real level of trade friction. The EU believes there will be very little. The official position of the sexually incontinent pathologically lying blonde bimbo is that there will be none. But once we know what it is the British government and the EU Commission can try to fix the problem. The Irish Foreign Minister has said so. The EU Commission Brexit chief has said so.

Unionists in NI are either being played or being shat on by the Tories. My bet is on the latter.