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Cork - Light Rail [route options idenfication and initial design underway]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,802 ✭✭✭timmyntc




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The NTA at this stage. TII are more of a build/maintain body



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    if Dublin has a more extensive Luas network in the city centre, buses of any kind would become rare in the centre, solving the problem a different way...

    Yep, Amsterdam city bus fleet is just 160 vehicles, while Dublin is like 1,200! Both cities roughly the same size, the difference being Amsterdam as an extensive Tram and Metro network instead of heavily using buses.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Irish gauge is metric at 1.600 Metres. Dublin to Kingstown line was converted to Irish gauge in 1854 from the Std gauge of 4 ft 8.5 inches to allow integration with the Bray to Harcourt st line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,403 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    They were 900 mm, chosen to be interoperable with the nearby Blackrock and Passage Railway at 3 ft 🤷🏻‍♂️ We've made some strange choices over the years.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Not fully accurate info from NTA: the councilors are hostile, but the council themselves and engineering teams etc are not.

    They do appear to be hostile on Bus Connects though from what I've seen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Yes I'd expect that's the case. They're probably used to dealing with Dublin councilors who might be also hostile but also well used to change amd perhaps a little more pragmatic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I don't think it's over yet in Cork, some councilors are being won over to the mindset of "infrastructure could be a good thing".

    A lot of old-fashioned thinking around the place still unfortunately. Its taking time to turn things around.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Anyone who knows what the Councillors in Cork are like would not be at all surprised!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Too late now I'd say, the NTA have moved resources off the project and there's currently no plan to continue working on a preferred route option or public consultation in the short term, its dead. Luas Finglas will likely benefit from this, community groups in finglas have been hassling their TDs to get it built quicker than the post 2030 timeline and there's no local or political opposition to the project. The NTA is choosing its battles. Its simply not worth fighting people to give them something, just move on from it. Revisit when the stakeholders mature and after the budget has been spent on infrastructure elsewhere and jealousy rears its head.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,557 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    If that’s true, it’s beyond astounding. Cork City Council, both elected and administrative, have managed to block €3 billion worth of national investment into public infrastructure in Cork City? There hasn’t even been any meaningful community or public objections to it yet, if anything the public and local media have broadly supported the project. I understand that could all change when the route is announced but I can’t get over the council scuppering the project at this stage. Ann Doherty was asking for businesses to buy into the project just this month, to be simultaneously filibustering behind the scenes would be the biggest scandal in local politics in a generation. I am still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor, I hope someone like Eoin English or Tripe and Drisheen are reading this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    It's not Ann and her colleagues though, it's the elected representatives. Some of them are doing unbelievable damage to the council's own projects. Some of them are actively organising the public to block almost anything that's sustainable transport oriented. It's the same few names all the time and some of them even have vested business interests in selling car related stuff. They're fairly brazen about it too, not quite Mannix Flynn level stuff but not far off it.

    I used to criticise Ann and her colleagues a lot previously, but I think they're working really hard now and are singing broadly the right songs.

    Very disappointing to hear the NTA are moving on though, even if it is understandable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    There are local elections coming up. If you see a politician out campaigning, make your opinions on this project known to them.

    Their biggest vested interest is staying in a seat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭gooseman12


    I do agree that there are a large number of vocal councilors fighting active and public transport projects.

    But, I do believe these councilors have some very strong public support in this regards.

    We have seen it everywhere with BusConnects, local groups of residents and businesses fighting tooth and nail on everything. Those councilors are just riding the wave of this opinion. The councilors are chasing votes and ultimately don't care where they are coming from.

    There are still enough people out there around cork who live and die by their cars and looking at how cork is being developed this cohort is probably not getting any smaller anytime soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    That's partly true, some Councilors are very reasonable in explaining what you're saying.

    However some Councilors in private are also just downright backwards: they are themselves the ones who live and die by their cars and are very much leading, rather than being led. The council meetings show them intervening in schemes which have little to no public pushback.

    As KrisW1001 says, it's very worthwhile to actually discuss with them during canvassing. It doesn't even break down along party lines, which is interesting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb




  • Registered Users Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    ?? Dublin buses run under Luas wires all the time, no problem.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    “This is a real killer for one-off housing in rural Ireland,” said Cllr Carroll.

    Tiny violins at the ready... 🎻

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    The Cork Tramway system was a 2'11" gauge. The Cork, Blackrock & Passage line, while originally the standard 5'3" gauge was converted to the narrow gauge 3'0" when it was extended to Crosshaven. The Muskery Railway was also a narrow gauge system 3'0". The Tram to Sundays Well traveled successfully on the Muskery line along Western Road as far as Victoria Cross Road, where it left the Muskery line and turned north to Wellington Bridge (now named Thomas Davis Bridge).

    While there are metric equivalents to the original gauges, I don't see The Board of Trade of the UK, speaking in metric measurements in The Regulating the Gauge of Railways Act 1846

    The 4'8½" is still the UK standard gauge which is equal to the 1435mm, or thereabouts, found throughout Europe. We're an outlier with our 5'3" (1600mm) gauge which is why we need special custom-made bogies on any rolling stock ordered.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I do not want to drag this thread off topic by discussing railway gauge.

    More info here.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭lostinsuperfunk


    Would greatly appreciate if specific instances of councillors stalling and slowing down improvement projects could be posted here, e.g. links to public statements, council debates or tweets (I can think of one particular suspect but there must be more). It's time to put pressure on them while the elections are approaching. The city is grinding to a halt with car traffic, we need better bus routes and cycle lanes in the short term and some kind of mass transit as soon as possible.



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