Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Coolfresian · 12-04-2021 11:46am

Doing 4.3 butterfat and 3.7 protein on last collection. Cows offered silage and straw after milking. Spring cows averaging 32 litres and winter cows averaging 28 litres. Feeding 3-4 kg of 14% nut on feed to yield. Will increase to 5 kg on fty when starting breeding for the top yielders. Would that cover cows doing over 40 litres or am I missing out on litres by not feeding more? Cows in very good BCS.

mahoney_j · 12-04-2021 11:48am

Acquiescence wrote: »

What kind of production is the 5 and 6kg sustaining, if ye don't mind me asking?

Nudging over 33 ltrs fty averaging 6 kg ,2/2.5 kgdm Maize silage pre evening milking butterfat also dropping but not to levels of the past ,3.90
Proteins mid 3.50s

mahoney_j · 12-04-2021 11:50am

Say my name wrote: »

I'm at 3.8 bf here. Grazing unfertilized ground too. Looking at the ground you'd think there's feck all there. But they're skinning the ground better than sheep.
No silage. 4kgs 16% nut.
I was complaining about low bf to a good grassland manager one time...response - graze tighter. :pac:
There must be something to it.

Second round grass 1400 LG cover tested at 19.5% dm last Monday at 10 am

mahoney_j · 12-04-2021 11:52am

Coolfresian wrote: »

Doing 4.3 butterfat and 3.7 protein on last collection. Cows offered silage and straw after milking. Spring cows averaging 32 litres and winter cows averaging 28 litres. Feeding 3-4 kg of 14% nut on feed to yield. Will increase to 5 kg on fty when starting breeding for the top yielders. Would that cover cows doing over 40 litres or am I missing out on litres by not feeding more? Cows in very good BCS.

Cows over 37 kg milk on 8 kg here max feed set at that

Coolfresian · 12-04-2021 12:08pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Cows over 37 kg milk on 8 kg here max feed set at that

Haven't fed that heavy here before, usually set the fty to 2-4/5 kgs when at grass. Have been getting good results but I'd say I'm leaving litres behind.

Another point imo on lads going to ai earlier for glanbia, I don't see how that will make much difference to peak volume. All our winter cows will milk.up to first week July and always tough to get them dry. September and October calvers doing 27 litres atm and not been pushed. Really don't see how people think starting calving 2 weeks earlier will make a difference?

Timmaay · 12-04-2021 12:13pm

Coolfresian wrote: »

Haven't fed that heavy here before, usually set the fty to 2-4/5 kgs when at grass. Have been getting good results but I'd say I'm leaving litres behind.

Another point imo on lads going to ai earlier for glanbia, I don't see how that will make much difference to peak volume. All our winter cows will milk.up to first week July and always tough to get them dry. September and October calvers doing 27 litres atm and not been pushed. Really don't see how people think starting calving 2 weeks earlier will make a difference?

Agreed, will make zero different, if your lucky enough to have the ideal late Jan and feb grazing conditions, then your going to graze way too much area too early, if its a wet spring you got one hell of a feed bill to keep the cows going while still inside.

Mooooo · 12-04-2021 12:16pm

Only way around it imo would be more March calving not Jan calving, would push the peak out a bit. Agree, winter cows get a second peak when at grass they would give as much as most spring calving cows in April and May so calving earlier unlikely to help the situation much
Edit still would be hard to pull cows back even at that. Everyone would have to do there own sums.

Acquiescence · 12-04-2021 12:21pm

Is there anything to be said for leaving the few litres behind.

That's kind of where my head is at. I'm trying to feed less ration and hopefully avoid 'artifically' increasing peak and knocking the **** out of the cows for the sake of a few extra litres, but I still want to feed them to maintenance obviously.

Feeding 4kg @ around 30L just over 4bf and 3.5-6 protein

But I've a decent % of heifers so maybe I'm just not feeding the mature cows properly while convincing myself it's for their own benefit.

kevthegaff · 12-04-2021 12:23pm

Will there be a reference going forward for the likes of Arrabawn in a few years

Coolfresian · 12-04-2021 12:30pm

Acquiescence wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for leaving the few litres behind.

That's kind of where my head is at. I'm trying to feed less ration and hopefully avoid 'artifically' increasing peak and knocking the **** out of the cows for the sake of a few extra litres, but I still want to feed them to maintenance obviously.

Feeding 4kg @ around 30L just over 4bf and 3.5-6 protein

But I've a decent % of heifers so maybe I'm just not feeding the mature cows properly while convincing myself it's for their own benefit.

That's what I'm not sure of yet. Last year I only realised I was feeding a bit low when the ai man asked what kgs I was feeding. Some lads were feeding 2kgs a day more at the time and I was still getting higher litres and solids. It all depends on the type of cow on farm and grass ahead of them to an extent. I'm feeding less kgs than a friend who has jersey crossbreds so I'm starting to think I should be feeding higher and push them on.

Coolfresian · 12-04-2021 12:33pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Only way around it imo would be more March calving not Jan calving, would push the peak out a bit. Agree, winter cows get a second peak when at grass they would give as much as most spring calving cows in April and May so calving earlier unlikely to help the situation much
Edit still would be hard to pull cows back even at that. Everyone would have to do there own sums.

I can't see too many ways that there is a solution to doing the sums. I'm calving 40 per cent in winter and even calving more then instead of spring isn't going to help me much at all.

whelan2 · 12-04-2021 12:35pm

Coolfresian wrote: »

Haven't fed that heavy here before, usually set the fty to 2-4/5 kgs when at grass. Have been getting good results but I'd say I'm leaving litres behind.

Another point imo on lads going to ai earlier for glanbia, I don't see how that will make much difference to peak volume. All our winter cows will milk.up to first week July and always tough to get them dry. September and October calvers doing 27 litres atm and not been pushed. Really don't see how people think starting calving 2 weeks earlier will make a difference?

I started ai last week as I didn't fill my winter contract in January and I was penalised. Just doing 20 and stopping then fir 3 weeks as we have loads of birthdays here in mid Jan &#55357;&#56832;

Mooooo · 12-04-2021 12:49pm

Acquiescence wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for leaving the few litres behind.

That's kind of where my head is at. I'm trying to feed less ration and hopefully avoid 'artifically' increasing peak and knocking the **** out of the cows for the sake of a few extra litres, but I still want to feed them to maintenance obviously.

Feeding 4kg @ around 30L just over 4bf and 3.5-6 protein

But I've a decent % of heifers so maybe I'm just not feeding the mature cows properly while convincing myself it's for their own benefit.

Feeding shouldn't knock anything out of the cows, unless you are feeding the wrong stuff. They should maintain or gain condition as well as put out what they can in terms of milk. At that performance you are more than likely getting the grass right, I'd be down at 4 if it wasnt for the poor growth of the last 2 weeks as well. Have a way to go to get to a mature herd as well

Say my name · 12-04-2021 12:51pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Second round grass 1400 LG cover tested at 19.5% dm last Monday at 10 am

Any info on the third round? :pac:

Ah no it's basically like straw atm.

Pinsnbushings · 12-04-2021 1:17pm

Coolfresian wrote: »

I can't see too many ways that there is a solution to doing the sums. I'm calving 40 per cent in winter and even calving more then instead of spring isn't going to help me much at all.

Robot on an indoor system calving cows in late May and June..? Is it a totally mad idea..?feed high quality silage and meal.. apart from the much higher costs what other issues might there be calving cows that time of year..? Obviously you'd need serious cows that would respond to feeding and make use of the additional milking you might get with the robot..

Grueller · 12-04-2021 1:18pm

5 kg of 14% nut and grass ad lib. 25.5 litres at 3.59 protein and 3.83 butterfat. Butterfat has fell from 4.15 in the last week. 40% first calvers and 60% second calvers.

Coolfresian · 12-04-2021 1:25pm

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

Robot on an indoor system calving cows in late May and June..? Is it a totally mad idea..?feed high quality silage and meal.. apart from the much higher costs what other issues might there be calving cows that time of year..? Obviously you'd need serious cows that would respond to feeding and make use of the additional milking you might get with the robot..

Isn't it crazy that we have to look at such drastic changes to make any expansion work. It d be a lot more palatable to take if the board/mgt took some responsibility. If it was a case of poor planning and taking on new entrants if they knew this was coming down the line then a few resignations would not go a miss.

GrasstoMilk · 12-04-2021 1:28pm

Say my name wrote: »

I'm at 3.8 bf here. Grazing unfertilized ground too. Looking at the ground you'd think there's feck all there. But they're skinning the ground better than sheep.
No silage. 4kgs 16% nut.
I was complaining about low bf to a good grassland manager one time...response - graze tighter. :pac:
There must be something to it.

Get them to eat the stem for fibre

29.2l 3.83 p 4.03bf 5 kg meal. On second round since the 1st

Pinsnbushings · 12-04-2021 1:41pm

Coolfresian wrote: »

Isn't it crazy that we have to look at such drastic changes to make any expansion work. It d be a lot more palatable to take if the board/mgt took some responsibility. If it was a case of poor planning and taking on new entrants if they knew this was coming down the line then a few resignations would not go a miss.

Well it certainly would be a dramatic change here, goin from about as low input system that is out there, small herd milked oad with everything owned and payed for..but I suppose this 5000 a year minimum payment to retire has me looking at the thing again. I will be very limited in how much i can produce if this thing lasts more than a couple of years so I'm weighing up whether I should take that and do something else with the farm,if we're likely to exit in a couple of years anyway. Hard to know what to do.

trixi2011 · 12-04-2021 1:42pm

Xbreed herd here 28l here 3.93 p and 4.57 fat on second round and 2.5kg of meal .

Mooooo · 12-04-2021 1:57pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

Xbreed herd here 28l here 3.93 p and 4.57 fat on second round and 2.5kg of meal .

What's the age profile of the herd? Will they hold peak long? Good going

cute geoge · 12-04-2021 2:21pm

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

Well it certainly would be a dramatic change here, goin from about as low input system that is out there, small herd milked oad with everything owned and payed for..but I suppose this 5000 a year minimum payment to retire has me looking at the thing again. I will be very limited in how much i can produce if this thing lasts more than a couple of years so I'm weighing up whether I should take that and do something else with the farm,if we're likely to exit in a couple of years anyway. Hard to know what to do.

You sound just like myself ,just wondering what age you are and have you many milking .I am 47 with 47

trixi2011 · 12-04-2021 2:25pm

Mooooo wrote: »

What's the age profile of the herd? Will they hold peak long? Good going

Fully mature herd only bringing in 15% heifer last 2 years . Not sure how long they will hold on to peak as it's a new herd and farm to.me . I'm hoping there's a bit more in them

straight · 12-04-2021 2:43pm

Coolfresian wrote: »

Doing 4.3 butterfat and 3.7 protein on last collection. Cows offered silage and straw after milking. Spring cows averaging 32 litres and winter cows averaging 28 litres. Feeding 3-4 kg of 14% nut on feed to yield. Will increase to 5 kg on fty when starting breeding for the top yielders. Would that cover cows doing over 40 litres or am I missing out on litres by not feeding more? Cows in very good BCS.

Teagasc say .111 kgs per litre is the recommendation.

mahoney_j · 12-04-2021 4:15pm

straight wrote: »

Teagasc say .111 kgs per litre is the recommendation.

Then a cow doing 40 litres gets 4.4 kg meal .....they should stick to grass and leave feeding cows to proper nutritionists

Pinsnbushings · 12-04-2021 5:19pm

cute geoge wrote: »

You sound just like myself ,just wondering what age you are and have you many milking .I am 47 with 47

Early 30s with 40. I'm working full time but not mad about the day job..kept on the dairy at home over the years with the father hoping a land opportunity might arise and look at going home full time then..kinda put up or shut up time for me now I think ha.

Are you considering taking the retirement package? Have you looked at alternatives? Are you farming full time?

K.G. · 13-04-2021 9:22am

Just wondering how many of ye have upped the value of your dairy for your accounts on the back of current dairy stock boom

dar31 · 13-04-2021 9:35am

K.G. wrote: »

Just wondering how many of ye have upped the value of your dairy for your accounts on the back of current dairy stock boom

Easier to ask than stress my brain, what's the advantage?

K.G. · 13-04-2021 9:44am

dar31 wrote: »

Easier to ask than stress my brain, what's the advantage?

None other than at some point we have to decide is this where we at or is this temporary. I ve always kept it in order in numbers terms but valuations would be on the Conservative side,animals are probaly worth 30 to 40 %higher at the moment.an auditor strolls down the borreen and says you have 100 cows which you say are worth 80k but they say are 120k, that's 40 k of under declared income

Mooooo · 13-04-2021 9:48am

Cows at 1500 here, have always been.

K.G. · 13-04-2021 9:50am

Mooooo wrote: »

Cows at 1500 here, have always been.

1000 here i think

dmakc · 13-04-2021 10:03am

Is grass coming slowly for anyone else of late? We're going to have to go back on silage next week

Mooooo · 13-04-2021 10:09am

K.G. wrote: »

1000 here i think

Will there be a tax hit if you raised it? One advantage was when we were hit with TB valuations averaged out around that

Mooooo · 13-04-2021 10:11am

dmakc wrote: »

Is grass coming slowly for anyone else of late? We're going to have to go back on silage next week

Growth is slow alright. If things are that tight prob best to go in now with some silage so you can pull it out sooner, and not have to feed as much of it next week and it closer to breeding

Timmaay · 13-04-2021 10:49am

Timmaay wrote: »

Nothing will ever beat march 2018 in fairness, we were facing mid April with zero fodder leftover, this year there is a reasonable bit kept over. Last summer I was in full summer 2018 drought mode in mid June here, and overnight it all changed, and we basically had the most ideal wet and humid summers. Plan for the worst and hope for the best, and so far we are certainly ahead of ourselves from 2018.

Ash before Oak, we are in for a soak? Hopefully the trees are correct this spring anyways lol.

Mooooo · 13-04-2021 10:53am

Timmaay wrote: »

Ash before Oak, we are in for a soak? Hopefully the trees are correct this spring anyways lol.

Feck off!

Morris Moss · 13-04-2021 11:02am

Anybody feeding straw to cows, a few have acidosis here and was told to put some in a round feeder.

mahoney_j · 13-04-2021 11:11am

Morris Moss wrote: »

Anybody feeding straw to cows, a few have acidosis here and was told to put some in a round feeder.

That’s why I’ve came round to keeping silage in diet ,despite what some so called experts say it dosnt drop your protein and dosnt affect clean outs providing going into correct covers ...kept 1/2 kg dm silage in here till mid June last year solids and yields never better .lush second round grass despite been excellent quality in ways isn’t a balanced feed ,long fibre of some sort needed to keep stomach function right

Morris Moss · 13-04-2021 11:38am

mahoney_j wrote: »

That’s why I’ve came round to keeping silage in diet ,despite what some so called experts say it dosnt drop your protein and dosnt affect clean outs providing going into correct covers ...kept 1/2 kg dm silage in here till mid June last year solids and yields never better .lush second round grass despite been excellent quality in ways isn’t a balanced feed ,long fibre of some sort needed to keep stomach function right

I've silage here but quality isnt good enough for milkers unfortunately, I definitely agree they need some source of fibre, grass is very lush.

K.G. · 13-04-2021 11:44am

Mooooo wrote: »

Will there be a tax hit if you raised it? One advantage was when we were hit with TB valuations averaged out around that

Yeah but if values should drop you revise downwards and put losses against income

Mooooo · 13-04-2021 1:02pm

K.G. wrote: »

Yeah but if values should drop you revise downwards and put losses against income

Be a question for the accountant really. Would put 1k as a low value really, regardless of this years prices

Sacrolyte · 13-04-2021 1:04pm

K.G. wrote: »

Yeah but if values should drop you revise downwards and put losses against income

It can be a useful tax management tool. But you need to be in some way realistic. Your not putting a valuation on your best or worst cow but the average. Funnily enough on the back of a good year the values may go down due the returns been filed a year later and you may have slipped into a bad year and cash might be tight for a already high tax bill. @1000 here too. Don’t think it’s unreasonable.

Wildsurfer · 13-04-2021 1:27pm

Morris Moss wrote: »

Anybody feeding straw to cows, a few have acidosis here and was told to put some in a round feeder.

I put out a bale of straw along barrier last week and they wont touch it. Dry silage a better option I'd say

whelan2 · 13-04-2021 1:58pm

Anyone get the allocation for the glanbia milk supply thing? Very happy here

13-04-2021 2:07pm

Very happy here also
Didn't get it in the post yet but its up on glanbia connect in the my docs section

Mooooo · 13-04-2021 2:23pm

Not in glanbia but I assume biggest issue is lads that have borrowed and need the extra cows to cover it

straight · 13-04-2021 4:41pm

Wildsurfer wrote: »

I put out a bale of straw along barrier last week and they wont touch it. Dry silage a better option I'd say

Or good hay maybe

Mooooo · 13-04-2021 4:57pm

Anyone else in that bracket of development needing to be done but possible changes from nitrates/ Europe etc could feck the show? Regardless of increase or decrease in numbers I need to do work on the yard, and can increase numbers to help cover it in current circumstances also in terms of cost adding for extra wouldnt be out of the way. But for example if dero was to go, I'd still need to do work but would have less cows to cover it, and be half a man down as would have to let go of the fella here part time. Milk price wont increase as in a season our drop in the ocean will be covered by anyone else

straight · 13-04-2021 10:09pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Anyone else in that bracket of development needing to be done but possible changes from nitrates/ Europe etc could feck the show? Regardless of increase or decrease in numbers I need to do work on the yard, and can increase numbers to help cover it in current circumstances also in terms of cost adding for extra wouldnt be out of the way. But for example if dero was to go, I'd still need to do work but would have less cows to cover it, and be half a man down as would have to let go of the fella here part time. Milk price wont increase as in a season our drop in the ocean will be covered by anyone else

The future is very uncertain for sure. Am trying to buy a bit of land here to deal with lower stocking rates.

Mooooo · 14-04-2021 8:38am

Yeah. Unsure of what will happen. In my case I dont think buying/ renting land would help much if dero goes as wont be able to stock it enough to utilise or pay for it. Perhaps just a case of planning what I need to do and go when/ if there is more certainty there. Carrying a bit of debt already and can manage relatively high levels but when the milk out the gate pays for everything if that is pulled from under you it's a different kettle of fish. Would feel for any glanbia suppliers who are in that position

Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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