New Worldwide Handicap System

KevH1984 · 23-10-2020 12:33pm

SSS was 72 on old system

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 12:36pm

KevH1984 wrote: »

Rating is 71.9, Par 72 and slope is 124

On that basis, yes, you're cut to 2. Slope rating isn't high enough to give you an extra shot. On a slope rating of 135 or above (all the way to the limit of 155) you'd have a playing handicap of 3.

For the record, the calculation is HI * SR/113

gypsy79 · 23-10-2020 12:37pm

KevH1984 wrote: »

Rating is 71.9, Par 72 and slope is 124

So you are going to be playing off 2 (2.1 *(124/113) * 0.95)

You must have been playing well. The tiny difference between the par, ratings and SSS means that you will be losing compared to other similar handicaps

But it also indicates you been playing better than a 4 and old system was too slow in cutting you

Poker Face · 23-10-2020 12:48pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

By email apparently. He should check the club's main email address.

txs

newport2 · 23-10-2020 1:13pm

KevH1984 wrote: »

Just received my new handicap under WHS, I'm on the competition committee so handicap sec sent it to me. Gone from 3.9 to 2.1 so 2 shots gone. Kind of anticipated that but still mad to see.

Where will these appear first when they are issued to members? Change will just appear in Golfnet?

Seve OB · 23-10-2020 1:21pm

newport2 wrote: »

Where will these appear first when they are issued to members? Change will just appear in Golfnet?

You see this is just it. Roadrunner was correct above. Prawnsambo has an inside track and thinks they are ready.
But if they are, they are doing a bloody terrible job and keeping us updated, they don’t answer questions and we don’t know where it will be, golfnet? HDID, masterscoreboard, golf Ireland? I think it’s supposed to be on golf Ireland, but there is supposed to be an app also. Its not ready and no info on the site.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 1:48pm

Seve OB wrote: »

You see this is just it. Roadrunner was correct above. Prawnsambo has an inside track and thinks they are ready.
But if they are, they are doing a bloody terrible job and keeping us updated, they don’t answer questions and we don’t know where it will be, golfnet? HDID, masterscoreboard, golf Ireland? I think it’s supposed to be on golf Ireland, but there is supposed to be an app also. Its not ready and no info on the site.

All your questions (I think

) are answered in this PDF. On the Master Scoreboard/HowDidIDo question, the primary source of handicap information will now be the Golf Ireland portal. It will also (I think) be in the relevant software, but they're still being developed afaik, so can't confirm that they have it implemented.

Make sure you have your GUI/ILGU card because without your PIN, you won't be able to log in. If you've lost it, get onto your hcap sec or secretary asap so that they can order a new one for you.

Edit: Actually, they can look up your PIN on GolfNet, so you can shortcut the delay in getting a new card by just asking your Secretary or Hcap Sec

newport2 · 23-10-2020 2:11pm

"When will my Club have access to the WHS Platform to view handicaps?
Clubs will be issued with a letter containing access credentials during the week
commencing 19th October."

This happened last night, over a month late?

Does not inspire confidence in the following:

"When will members have access to the WHS Platform?
Members will be provided with access during the week commencing 26th October."

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 2:16pm

newport2 wrote: »

"When will my Club have access to the WHS Platform to view handicaps?
Clubs will be issued with a letter containing access credentials during the week
commencing 19th October."

This happened last night, over a month late?

Does not inspire confidence in the following:

"When will members have access to the WHS Platform?
Members will be provided with access during the week commencing 26th October."

What month do you think this is?

newport2 · 23-10-2020 2:18pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

What month do you think this is?

OK, major brain f$%t there

I must be wishing my lockdown away!

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 2:20pm

newport2 wrote: »

OK, major brain f$%t there

I must be wishing my lockdown away!

That's why I did actually laugh. Because for a moment there (and probably for the same reason) I was in November.

Shanee. · 23-10-2020 2:27pm

Stupid question sorry if it has been asked, but do the competitions have to be qualifying or do non qualifying competitions count towards this new handicap system?

gary29428 · 23-10-2020 2:47pm

Shanee. wrote: »

Stupid question sorry if it has been asked, but do the competitions have to be qualifying or do non qualifying competitions count towards this new handicap system?

As far as I am aware qualifying, but was wondering about RSA & RSH scores. You can get cut for these comps so I taught they would be included...

Seve OB · 23-10-2020 2:51pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

All your questions (I think ) are answered in this PDF. On the Master Scoreboard/HowDidIDo question, the primary source of handicap information will now be the Golf Ireland portal. It will also (I think) be in the relevant software, but they're still being developed afaik, so can't confirm that they have it implemented.

Yes I believed that the primary source for your handicap would shift from golfnet to golf Ireland.
But you said it yourself, it is still being developed.......... so they aren’t ready.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 2:52pm

gary29428 wrote: »

As far as I am aware qualifying, but was wondering about RSA & RSH scores. You can get cut for these comps so I taught they would be included...

RSA and RSH competitions are qualifying. The only reason they are reduction only is because CSS is too low. They will be included in your record, non-qualifying comps won't. Non-qualifying by definition involves the suspension of some of the rules of golf.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 2:56pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Yes I believed that the primary source for your handicap would shift from golfnet to golf Ireland.
But you said it yourself, it is still being developed.......... so they aren’t ready.

That's not what I said. Third party software isn't the responsibility of Golf Ireland. If those aren't ready, it doesn't actually matter because dot golf allows for competition score entry directly. Having said that, I see that Handicap Master have had a beta of their new software available for download and test for a while now.

Seve OB · 23-10-2020 3:01pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's not what I said. Third party software isn't the responsibility of Golf Ireland. If those aren't ready, it doesn't actually matter because dot golf allows for competition score entry directly. Having said that, I see that Handicap Master have had a beta of their new software available for download and test for a while now.

With respect, as a golfer I don’t care who is responsible for completing tasks. Ultimately the GUI is responsible to make sure that us as members and players are well informed, that they answer our questions, that they have everything ready. If someone is not pulling their weight, they are the ones who need to sort it out.

As it is, we are looking like switching off one system on the night of Nov 1st and waking up to a brand new system. Any business worth their salt would never do that, both systems should be live for a trial period.

Golfer365 · 23-10-2020 3:03pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's not what I said. Third party software isn't the responsibility of Golf Ireland. If those aren't ready, it doesn't actually matter because dot golf allows for competition score entry directly. Having said that, I see that Handicap Master have had a beta of their new software available for download and test for a while now.

Can you send the url to create an account for Golf Ireland Clubhouse. The link I got only gets me to a login page.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 3:06pm

Golfer365 wrote: »

Can you send the url to create an account for Golf Ireland Clubhouse. The link I got only gets me to a login page.

They're all specific to each club afaik. If you're getting a login page, you're either using the base url without the keys or somebody from the club has already set up the account.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 3:11pm

Seve OB wrote: »

With respect, as a golfer I don’t care who is responsible for completing tasks. Ultimately the GUI is responsible to make sure that us as members and players are well informed, that they answer our questions, that they have everything ready. If someone is not pulling their weight, they are the ones who need to sort it out.

As it is, we are looking like switching off one system on the night of Nov 1st and waking up to a brand new system. Any business worth their salt would never do that, both systems should be live for a trial period.

You do realise that Handicap Master and other software vendors are suppliers to unions outside Ireland as well? And this isn't like changing accounting systems, the entire basis for calculation is changing. Keeping the old system in parallel would be as useful as a chocolate fireguard. We're done with CONGU on 2nd November, there will be no going back.

GreeBo · 23-10-2020 3:13pm

HandicapMaster wrote:

Full release will be combined with the introduction of World Handicap System in the UK and Ireland, currently scheduled for 2nd November 2020.

Still waiting for these guys.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 3:16pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Still waiting for these guys.

You can download the preview here: https://www.handicapmaster.org/preview/index.php

If you use the cloud version(s), you obviously won't be able to import your database (I really don't like that you can't do this), so will have to work with made up data.

slingerz · 23-10-2020 9:31pm

Is golfnet and golf Ireland not going to be the same thing

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 10:03pm

slingerz wrote: »

Is golfnet and golf Ireland not going to be the same thing

No. GolfNet will be retired I presume. GUI and ILGU merge next year into Golf Ireland, so eveything will presumably move over.

dan_ep82 · 24-10-2020 10:20am

I wonder if there will be a trend up or down when they are released.

Looking at a few responses on twitter in england it seems most low guys have went down.

Mantis Toboggan · 24-10-2020 11:14am

When are the new handicaps being released released on golf Ireland?

prawnsambo · 24-10-2020 11:32am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

When are the new handicaps being released released on golf Ireland?

This week to the clubs, next week to the members.

Here's a sample of what you might see in your handicap record.

prawnsambo · 24-10-2020 12:20pm

dan_ep82 wrote: »

I winder if there will be a trend up or down when they are released.

Looking at a few responses on twitter in england it seems most low guys have went down.

I don't think you can expect a trend like that really. Each individual's scores will be reflective of their form and their index will be up or down depending on that. Since (based on that sample above) no PCC is being included, rounds with a high CSS will not be adjusted and cuts that may have happened because of that will not now be reflected. As an example, I had a one shot cut earlier this year because CSS on the day was 32 points and I had 35 points. So that will probably be one of my best rounds, yet will have an AGS of one over par. Conversely if the CSS was low, a buffer might now turn into an increase in your index.

Seve OB · 24-10-2020 1:20pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

This week to the clubs, next week to the members.

Here's a sample of what you might see in your handicap record.

Prawn this is exactly what I mean by the GUI not being ready. This is exactly like us reading in the bloody daily mirror that golf got the chop. It should not be you giving us example like this (which is great by the way thanks) but it should have been all done by the GUI well before now.

newport2 · 24-10-2020 1:46pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't think you can expect a trend like that really. Each individual's scores will be reflective of their form and their index will be up or down depending on that. Since (based on that sample above) no PCC is being included, rounds with a high CSS will not be adjusted and cuts that may have happened because of that will not now be reflected. As an example, I had a one shot cut earlier this year because CSS on the day was 32 points and I had 35 points. So that will probably be one of my best rounds, yet will have an AGS of one over par. Conversely if the CSS was low, a buffer might now turn into an increase in your index.

Thanks for the sample. Is it yours or just a sample? Just want to be certain the CSS is not going to be included in the initial calculation, it was supposed to be

prawnsambo · 24-10-2020 3:06pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Prawn this is exactly what I mean by the GUI not being ready. This is exactly like us reading in the bloody daily mirror that golf got the chop. It should not be you giving us example like this (which is great by the way thanks) but it should have been all done by the GUI well before now.

Thanks for the thanks

I'm a bit mystified though. That sample is pretty much what we've been fed from day one. Like there's loads of videos and other informational material out there that give exactly the same data. Not in the same format, but all the numbers are there to help you understand how it works. We've had the same stuff on thread here going back to the beginning of this year iirc. The only difference (that I can see) is in presentation.

PS I agree about the comms on the lockdown. Absolutely predictable that they'd leave it to the last minute when it was bad news.

prawnsambo · 24-10-2020 3:40pm

newport2 wrote: »

Thanks for the sample. Is it yours or just a sample? Just want to be certain the CSS is not going to be included in the initial calculation, it was supposed to be

It's an actual screengrab I picked up somewhere. Not sure CSS was supposed to be included, I know it was suggested here as an option, but I haven't seen anything official.

newport2 · 24-10-2020 4:09pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's an actual screengrab I picked up somewhere. Not sure CSS was supposed to be included, I know it was suggested here as an option, but I haven't seen anything official.

It says here that CSS will be included. Can't see anything in official material gui made available though

https://www.mapperleygolfclub.org/whs-transition-handicaps

prawnsambo · 24-10-2020 4:14pm

newport2 wrote: »

It says here that CSS will be included. Can't see anything in official material gui made available though

https://www.mapperleygolfclub.org/whs-transition-handicaps

Yeah, that's a very old (relatively) interpretation. Was one of the best resources at the time. But there were a few assumptions made that weren't borne out.

Russman · 26-10-2020 3:32pm

Not sure if this has been asked or brought up before, but I was just looking at the series of videos linked by HowDidiDo, explaining the WHS, its done by Golf England and it’s their head of handicapping and course ratings. Maybe I misunderstood but she mentioned that to get the new handicaps, they went back as far as January 2018 and converted all scores to give the new adjusted ones and also, to me anyway, seemed to imply that the low handicap and cap on increases would also be applied from then. Does that mean that they effectively re-ran everyone’s handicaps through 2018, 2019 & 2020 under the WHS to come up with our indices rather than just going back through our current last 20 scores ?
Not sure I’ve explained that fully, but I almost took it to mean that there was even less chance of big jumps because your underlying ability is captured through 3 years of scores.

prawnsambo · 26-10-2020 4:03pm

Russman wrote: »

Not sure if this has been asked or brought up before, but I was just looking at the series of videos linked by HowDidiDo, explaining the WHS, its done by Golf England and it’s their head of handicapping and course ratings. Maybe I misunderstood but she mentioned that to get the new handicaps, they went back as far as January 2018 and converted all scores to give the new adjusted ones and also, to me anyway, seemed to imply that the low handicap and cap on increases would also be applied from then. Does that mean that they effectively re-ran everyone’s handicaps through 2018, 2019 & 2020 under the WHS to come up with our indices rather than just going back through our current last 20 scores ?
Not sure I’ve explained that fully, but I almost took it to mean that there was even less chance of big jumps because your underlying ability is captured through 3 years of scores.

No, it's last 20 only for handicap purposes, but they have imported older scores as well. Not sure why, but possibly because they are going back three years for those who don't have enough scores in the current and last year combined and it's easier to do it for everybody than just the few who don't play many comps.

finglashoop · 26-10-2020 4:18pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

No, it's last 20 only for handicap purposes, but they have imported older scores as well. Not sure why, but possibly because they are going back three years for those who don't have enough scores in the current and last year combined and it's easier to do it for everybody than just the few who don't play many comps.

I wonder that will give a historic look to the changes in handicap over that period as well when it goes live so people can see them

prawnsambo · 26-10-2020 4:39pm

finglashoop wrote: »

I wonder that will give a historic look to the changes in handicap over that period as well when it goes live so people can see them

It will. Although it will start as if you first got a handicap in early 2018, so won't really be accurate until 20 qualifying rounds after that.

finglashoop · 26-10-2020 5:16pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

It will. Although it will start as if you first got a handicap in early 2018, so won't really be accurate until 20 qualifying rounds after that.

Will be good to see how it works looking back i suppose

Russman · 26-10-2020 5:19pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

No, it's last 20 only for handicap purposes, but they have imported older scores as well. Not sure why, but possibly because they are going back three years for those who don't have enough scores in the current and last year combined and it's easier to do it for everybody than just the few who don't play many comps.

Thanks for that. That’s what I originally thought too. I must re look at that video and pay more attention to what she said exactly !

Rikand · 26-10-2020 5:44pm

Handicap sec issued a distribution of what our handicaps are set to be. I'm getting 7.8 which will give me a playing handicap around 9. Happy days! Cant wait to get back on the course for turkey and hamper comps playing off 9

slingerz · 26-10-2020 5:55pm

Rikand wrote: »

Handicap sec issued a distribution of what our handicaps are set to be. I'm getting 7.8 which will give me a playing handicap around 9. Happy days! Cant wait to get back on the course for turkey and hamper comps playing off 9

Fair play to your handicap secretary.

Will these new details appear on golfnet?

Rikand · 26-10-2020 6:40pm

slingerz wrote: »

Fair play to your handicap secretary.

Will these new details appear on golfnet?

To my understanding, there wont be an update to golfnet until the handicap secretaries have had a chance to review what has been sent to them incase any revisions are deemed necessary. The list is official, but not officially official

prawnsambo · 26-10-2020 6:55pm

Rikand wrote: »

To my understanding, there wont be an update to golfnet until the handicap secretaries have had a chance to review what has been sent to them incase any revisions are deemed necessary. The list is official, but not officially official

Won't be on GolfNet though. It'll be under a new portal on the Golf Ireland domain.

slingerz · 27-10-2020 12:15am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Won't be on GolfNet though. It'll be under a new portal on the Golf Ireland domain.

Do you’ve an idea when this is to be communicated?

dan_ep82 · 27-10-2020 12:27am

Rikand wrote: »

Handicap sec issued a distribution of what our handicaps are set to be. I'm getting 7.8 which will give me a playing handicap around 9. Happy days! Cant wait to get back on the course for turkey and hamper comps playing off 9

I'm guessing you were lower?

Wonder will we see more + handicap golfers now. I've come across and played golf we a good percentage of 0-3 HC but never a + HC. I know of two but I'm sure theres a lot more

Rikand · 27-10-2020 2:07am

dan_ep82 wrote: »

I'm guessing you were lower?

Wonder will we see more + handicap golfers now. I've come across and played golf we a good percentage of 0-3 HC but never a + HC. I know of two but I'm sure theres a lot more

My lowest ever handicap was 4, but I've been slowly moving out ever since then. I'm currently 6.6 but I'm not a genuine 6 or 7 anymore. I would be a 9 or 10 around Athlone being honest with myself, so I'm delighted to see me getting 9. i think its a truer reflection of my current ability.

We only have 2 guys in Athlone who are lower than 1. With the update, we are going to have 4. Two guys are going to come in from 1 and 2 respectively to scratch

prawnsambo · 27-10-2020 8:52am

slingerz wrote: »

Do you’ve an idea when this is to be communicated?

Member access to the new portal will be rolling out this week according to Golf Ireland. Likely the end of the week seeing as it's a short one. I think I pointed this out earlier in the thread, but bears repeating. You will need your GUI/ILGU number and your PIN - your PIN is on your GUI/ILGU card. If you've lost your card, you can find your PIN on your dashboard on GolfNet. If you've never logged into GolfNet, ask your handicap secretary for it.

Mushy · 27-10-2020 9:12am

Will an email be sent out by the club with the HI in it, or how are they to communicate with us?

Russman · 27-10-2020 9:23am

You’d wonder will the scores needed to win your Saturday singles change much, or will there just be a greater spread of winners. It’ll be interesting come the springtime.

New Worldwide Handicap System

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