New Worldwide Handicap System

PabloAndRoy · 22-10-2020 1:12pm

Seve OB wrote: »

agree we gone off topic, so last point. course management is also about playing the shot you can execute and control. if you have problems executing the shot, play the ones you have a better chance of executing/controlling.

I'm confident I can break 200 with my putter.

Russman · 22-10-2020 1:33pm

Sometimes bad shots happen to good people

TBH I think most of our (ie club players) bad golf is a mix and match of various reasons. As said earlier course management doesn't always mean laying up or being more conservative. We've a 90 degree dog leg par 4 around some OOB. Depending on the conditions a good thump with the driver will clear the corner, whereas its still a relatively tight shot to the corner with a hybrid or fairway wood. Sometimes for me the conservative play is actually take the driver - if I get any sort of a strike on it at all I've got a target that's 120 yards wide by carrying the corner which can sometimes be easier than fiddling a 5w up to the angle.

Anyway, to get back OT, personally I would consider course management part of a golfer's "ability". Hopefully the WHS will be much more current in reflecting that. If the players improves one aspect of his play, his handicap should show that pretty quickly, whether it be driving, putting, chipping, strategy, whatever. CONGU can be pretty penal if someone loses their game completely.

chalky_ie · 22-10-2020 3:18pm

willabur wrote: »

https://www.calculator.net/golf-handicap-calculator.html

How does this calculator work? I put my 8 best gross scores from the last 20 I've had in the score columns, also filled in the info on my local course from http://ncrdb.usga.org/ (course rating 69.1, slope rating 123), and it's telling me my new hcap is 8.6, I play off 14.7 at the moment and have never broken 80

prawnsambo · 22-10-2020 3:25pm

conor-w wrote: »

How does this calculator work? I put my 8 best gross scores from the last 20 I've had in the score columns, also filled in the info on my local course from http://ncrdb.usga.org/ (course rating 69.1, slope rating 123), and it's telling me my new hcap is 8.6, I play off 14.7 at the moment and have never broken 80

You probably should put all 20 in. The calculation changes until it gets to 20, like three is calculated at best 2 plus 2 (iirc) and it goes on from there. So putting in your best eight is skewing the result. Also you need adjusted gross score (net double bogey).

chalky_ie · 22-10-2020 3:36pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

You probably should put all 20 in. The calculation changes until it gets to 20, like three is calculated at best 2 plus 2 (iirc) and it goes on from there. So putting in your best eight is skewing the result. Also you need adjusted gross score (net double bogey).

my 8 best scores are all between 83-85 gross, do you reckon it would make that much of a difference in that case? Are you saying it's counting the empty cells or something?

Edit: I figured it out, I was using a 9 hole comp score, but I had the 18 hole course/slope ratings filled in, so I was getting a hcap of -27 for one of my entries haha. I've adjusted it and got 12.7, pretty happy with that!

prawnsambo · 22-10-2020 3:47pm

conor-w wrote: »

my 8 best scores are all between 83-85 gross, do you reckon it would make that much of a difference in that case? Are you saying it's counting the empty cells or something?

I don't know how that website calculates the handicap index. But the actual calculation changes as you add rounds. It's best eight of twenty when you have twenty rounds recorded. But it's best seven when it's 18 rounds and it's the average of the two lowest rounds when there are eight rounds played. So if the site calculates correctly as per WHS rules, your handicap index is being calculated on the basis of just eight rounds played as I outline there (average of best two).

PabloAndRoy · 22-10-2020 5:14pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't know how that website calculates the handicap index. But the actual calculation changes as you add rounds. It's best eight of twenty when you have twenty rounds recorded. But it's best seven when it's 18 rounds and it's the average of the two lowest rounds when there are eight rounds played. So if the site calculates correctly as per WHS rules, your handicap index is being calculated on the basis of just eight rounds played as I outline there (average of best two).

If less than 20 Qualifying Scores posted in the last 2 years

3 scores: lowest score -2
4 scores: lowest score -1
5 scores: lowest score
6 scores: average of lowest 2 scores -1
7 to 8 scores: average of lowest 2 scores
9 to 11 scores: average of lowest 3 scores
12 to 14 scores: average of lowest 4 scores
15 to 16 scores: average of lowest 5 scores
17 to 18 scores: average of lowest 6 scores
19 scores: average of lowest 7 scores
20 scores: average of lowest 8 scores

prawnsambo · 22-10-2020 5:46pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't know how that website calculates the handicap index. But the actual calculation changes as you add rounds. It's best eight of twenty when you have twenty rounds recorded. But it's best seven when it's 18 rounds and it's the average of the two lowest rounds when there are eight rounds played. So if the site calculates correctly as per WHS rules, your handicap index is being calculated on the basis of just eight rounds played as I outline there (average of best two).

I checked it. It just calculates the average differential from each of the rounds entered. It doesn't follow the WHS progression. It's accurate if you enter eight or more. Not accurate for less than eight.

GreeBo · 22-10-2020 10:05pm

blue note wrote: »

The bad scores are too consistent to be unlucky. I think my game doesn't suit my course, but it's not luck.

2 were lost balls. 1 I found in the thick rough, but it took me two shots to get it out. I then made a solid up and down for nada. And three were bunker balls. I got a new lob wedge so decided to try it out of bunkers - I'm wondering if the bounce isn't suitable for them as I took 8 shots out of those three bunkers. And didn't even get out of one of them. So there's obviously a bunker problem too, but that's factored into my handicap. Not getting out of them is uncharacteristic of me, but they are a problem for me. For example, I'd consider not dropping a shot after going into a bunker to be getting out and taking two putts. Getting up and down from a bunker is extremely rare.

You probably dont have enough bounce on your LW, you want 12+ really, otherwise you end up digging and the ball will not come out (well it can, but you need to know how to play it!)

If hitting a bunker means at least 3 more shots and often more, then you need to manage your way to avoid bunkers at all costs. That may sound crazy (why would I lay up with an 8i or why am I not aiming for the green) but just look at whats its costing you!
How many times does hitting the green lead to a birdie vs how many times does hitting a bunker lead to a scratch?

What handicap are you and what do you expect to be under the new system?

GreeBo · 22-10-2020 10:09pm

blue note wrote: »

The wedge being long on 2nd was down to my difficulty controlling distance with non full wedge shots. The two that went in the bunker were pushed 10 yards to the right. Distance was good on those two.

The shot selection was right on those three shots. Execution was the problem.

Anyway, we've gone off topic so let's move on from my game!

Leaving yourself a distance that you are not good at is bad course management!!!
The previous shot selection was the issue.
I played with a guy last week who thought course management was just not hitting a driver off the tee. He couldnt understand why hitting a 4 iron and then trying to hit the green with his 3 wood wasnt a sensible approach on index 1 par 4

Higher handicaps should take more club when hitting to the green 90% of the time because 95% of the time the trouble is short. I know you had one scenario where there was trouble over the back but if you analyse most holes on most courses, all the trouble is short or at most halfway up the green.

mighty magpie · 22-10-2020 10:59pm

Seen on twitter that England Golf have added their handicap index to members accounts in the last few days. When are we expecting it?

gary29428 · 22-10-2020 11:11pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah, they're reduction only scores. Kind of a half way house between non-qualifying and qualifying.

So is that yeah they are taken into account, hopefully it is, I have 2 decent scores but in RSA comps....

prawnsambo · 22-10-2020 11:36pm

mighty magpie wrote: »

Seen on twitter that England Golf have added their handicap index to members accounts in the last few days. When are we expecting it?

Clubs have access as of this evening. Mainly to check that everything is correct and there are no glaring anomalies. But also to set up users and do other housekeeping as well. I don't think there will be any issues come 2nd November. Except for not being able to play golf of course.

Seve OB · 23-10-2020 12:45am

mighty magpie wrote: »

Seen on twitter that England Golf have added their handicap index to members accounts in the last few days. When are we expecting it?

reckon we'll get it sometime next year

Poker Face · 23-10-2020 9:18am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Clubs have access as of this evening. Mainly to check that everything is correct and there are no glaring anomalies. But also to set up users and do other housekeeping as well. I don't think there will be any issues come 2nd November. Except for not being able to play golf of course.

How did your club receive access to this? Speaking to our Handicap Sec he has got nothing yet

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 12:02pm

Poker Face wrote: »

How did your club receive access to this? Speaking to our Handicap Sec he has got nothing yet

By email apparently. He should check the club's main email address.

KevH1984 · 23-10-2020 12:25pm

Just received my new handicap under WHS, I'm on the competition committee so handicap sec sent it to me. Gone from 3.9 to 2.1 so 2 shots gone. Kind of anticipated that but still mad to see.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 12:26pm

KevH1984 wrote: »

Just received my new handicap under WHS, I'm on the competition committee so handicap sec sent it to me. Gone from 3.9 to 2.1 so 2 shots gone. Kind of anticipated that but still mad to see.

It seems like you're confusing handicap index with playing handicap. I'm only saying that because course and playing handicaps are integers and not decimals.

gypsy79 · 23-10-2020 12:29pm

Agree that information means very little without the rating, slope, par of your course and old SSS when making a comparison between the new and old

KevH1984 · 23-10-2020 12:32pm

Rating is 71.9, Par 72 and slope is 124

KevH1984 · 23-10-2020 12:33pm

SSS was 72 on old system

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 12:36pm

KevH1984 wrote: »

Rating is 71.9, Par 72 and slope is 124

On that basis, yes, you're cut to 2. Slope rating isn't high enough to give you an extra shot. On a slope rating of 135 or above (all the way to the limit of 155) you'd have a playing handicap of 3.

For the record, the calculation is HI * SR/113

gypsy79 · 23-10-2020 12:37pm

KevH1984 wrote: »

Rating is 71.9, Par 72 and slope is 124

So you are going to be playing off 2 (2.1 *(124/113) * 0.95)

You must have been playing well. The tiny difference between the par, ratings and SSS means that you will be losing compared to other similar handicaps

But it also indicates you been playing better than a 4 and old system was too slow in cutting you

Poker Face · 23-10-2020 12:48pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

By email apparently. He should check the club's main email address.

txs

newport2 · 23-10-2020 1:13pm

KevH1984 wrote: »

Just received my new handicap under WHS, I'm on the competition committee so handicap sec sent it to me. Gone from 3.9 to 2.1 so 2 shots gone. Kind of anticipated that but still mad to see.

Where will these appear first when they are issued to members? Change will just appear in Golfnet?

Seve OB · 23-10-2020 1:21pm

newport2 wrote: »

Where will these appear first when they are issued to members? Change will just appear in Golfnet?

You see this is just it. Roadrunner was correct above. Prawnsambo has an inside track and thinks they are ready.
But if they are, they are doing a bloody terrible job and keeping us updated, they don’t answer questions and we don’t know where it will be, golfnet? HDID, masterscoreboard, golf Ireland? I think it’s supposed to be on golf Ireland, but there is supposed to be an app also. Its not ready and no info on the site.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 1:48pm

Seve OB wrote: »

You see this is just it. Roadrunner was correct above. Prawnsambo has an inside track and thinks they are ready.
But if they are, they are doing a bloody terrible job and keeping us updated, they don’t answer questions and we don’t know where it will be, golfnet? HDID, masterscoreboard, golf Ireland? I think it’s supposed to be on golf Ireland, but there is supposed to be an app also. Its not ready and no info on the site.

All your questions (I think

) are answered in this PDF. On the Master Scoreboard/HowDidIDo question, the primary source of handicap information will now be the Golf Ireland portal. It will also (I think) be in the relevant software, but they're still being developed afaik, so can't confirm that they have it implemented.

Make sure you have your GUI/ILGU card because without your PIN, you won't be able to log in. If you've lost it, get onto your hcap sec or secretary asap so that they can order a new one for you.

Edit: Actually, they can look up your PIN on GolfNet, so you can shortcut the delay in getting a new card by just asking your Secretary or Hcap Sec

newport2 · 23-10-2020 2:11pm

"When will my Club have access to the WHS Platform to view handicaps?
Clubs will be issued with a letter containing access credentials during the week
commencing 19th October."

This happened last night, over a month late?

Does not inspire confidence in the following:

"When will members have access to the WHS Platform?
Members will be provided with access during the week commencing 26th October."

prawnsambo · 23-10-2020 2:16pm

newport2 wrote: »

"When will my Club have access to the WHS Platform to view handicaps?
Clubs will be issued with a letter containing access credentials during the week
commencing 19th October."

This happened last night, over a month late?

Does not inspire confidence in the following:

"When will members have access to the WHS Platform?
Members will be provided with access during the week commencing 26th October."

What month do you think this is?

newport2 · 23-10-2020 2:18pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

What month do you think this is?

OK, major brain f$%t there

I must be wishing my lockdown away!

New Worldwide Handicap System

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