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EU draft directive to be presented on wed 19th Dec

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    #2
    Tony Soprano.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 298 ✭✭Tony Soprano.


    Yet shops will still be allowed to sell cancer sticks containing over 4,000 chemical compounds.


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    #3
    kiffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭kiffy


    Tony Soprano. wrote: »
    Yet shops will still be allowed to sell cancer sticks containing over 4,000 chemical compounds.
    Money, money, money, must be funny, in the dickheads world.


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    #4
    donkey oatey
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭donkey oatey


    Did anything get decided at the vapemeet last week as to how we could form with an opposing voice/peer group/rabble to legislation?


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    #5
    Vaperus
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Vaperus


    Yes its something thats being worked on


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    #6
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    You got 3 days cos once this is passed it becomes binding on all member states to enact legislation reflecting the directive within 2 years.
    I think this is done and dusted tbh, after Dallis resignation I thought this directive was dead in the water, the fact that it has been fast tracked again shows how determined they are.
    Pharma and make no mistake pharma has the most to loose, are very powerful lobbies (ask Enda who has his personal phone number)
    They want nic as a medicine and any availability outside their control is not in the interest of big business owning it.
    Phizer spent millions lobbying for the snus ban and still say that snus is no competition for their products, don't believe a word.


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    #7
    Calibos
    Registered Users Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭Calibos


    If this comes to pass, we'll be the lucky ones. We'll have enough time to either stockpile or start on the road to moving down the nicotine levels to prepare ourselves for 4mg or to give up nicotine altogether. The people I feel for are those that could have been helped by e-cigs as they currently exist but who won't have all the incentives we had to make the transition so easy.

    ie. They'll have a choice between cheap 4mg 'recreational' e-cigs that just won't scratch that nicotine itch making the transition from real cigs much worse than it needs to be.

    or

    They'll have to pay rip off Pharmacy prices for higher mg 'NRT' e-cigs but without the financial savings incentive. A lot of us persevered through the transition period before we learned to love vaping more than smoking by reminding ourselves of the fortunes we were saving.


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    #8
    kiffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭kiffy


    Calibos wrote: »
    If this comes to pass, we'll be the lucky ones. We'll have enough time to either stockpile or start on the road to moving down the nicotine levels to prepare ourselves for 4mg
    Aaarrrggghhh the very idea of having to vape 4mg is a real nightmare thought, I found going down from 24 to 18 a big drop and took a good few bottles to adjust, now facing a drop of only vaping 22% of what I'm on now. Can't see me stockpiling much, will just go to the dail, shoot the teashook and his wardrobe colleagues get sent down for life and vape Phizers 18mg ecigs in Mountjoy for nothing on a free prescription with a medical card "simples" :D


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    #9
    Lucutus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭Lucutus


    12mg was my sweet spot from transitioning away from 20 a day silk cut purple.

    Moving to 1/3 of that is not something I am interested in at present.

    heavier smokers or smokers of john player, rothmans, major etc. will not move away from cigarettes using 4mg juices.

    4mg appears to be an arbitrary number decided by people who are likely aware of nicotine levels and their affects, handed over to EU bureaucrats who know nothing about the subject matter about which they're drafting directives for member state legislation.

    I guess the sale of high nic juices will have to be through those boys on street corners with their burner phones in future...

    thewire01.jpg


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    #10
    kiffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭kiffy


    Lucutus wrote: »
    heavier smokers or smokers of john player, rothmans, major etc. will not move away from cigarettes using 4mg juices.
    Isn't that the real reason this legislation is coming out in the first place, the powers that be don't give a f.u.c.k about the likes of you and me (were just statistics to them), or the horrors our families would go through watching us gasping for each and every breath as we die of smoking related cancer. It's all about tax revenue, tax revenue, tax revenue.

    Ecigs are probably the most innovative invention in saving lives since penicillin IMO as Tobacco must be one of the biggest causes of death, It's a good job this lot were not around when the horseless carriage was first invented or we would still be sat behind horse n cart's. This was progress being stamped out for the sake of money and money men. As Abe Simpson would say "forshame"
    Rant over :(


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    #11
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    No I don't think it's tax revenue, tax is easily replaceable by just adding it to the ecig price.
    This is about eliminating competition for the medical nicotine. Pharma companies make billions from gum, patches and all the rest not even counting the value of treatments for smoking related illness.
    If a safe form of nic delivery comes along and replaces the pharma products while stopping the revenue stream of cures then they stand to loose billions. Pharma wants a monopoly on clean nic, as I said they campaigned against snus despite the evidence, ecigs threaten that position in a way that cig don't.
    Having said all that the Blog linked in the op may be a bit hysterical, if their using pharma grades of nic then 2mg and 4mg should be 20mg and 40mg to match the gum, patches levels. I'm going by the 'above that requiring a medical cert' thing as Intelicig have gotten certs for a 45mh ecig.
    Also the plasma level is wrong in the blog so who knows what other errors have crept in.


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    #12
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    what's to stop vendors slipping 20mg into 4mg bottles?,if ya get me ;)


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    #13
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    what's to stop vendors slipping 20mg into 4mg bottles?,if ya get me ;)

    Jail time ;)


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    #14
    Vaperus
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Vaperus


    If you read it it says "4mg per ml" which doesnt make sense as that would be pretty lethal


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    #15
    Green Hornet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭Green Hornet


    No, 4mg per ml is standard concentration, albeit on the low side. When you buy 11mg that's actually 11mg per ml.


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    #16
    Vaperus
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Vaperus


    http://ukvapers.org/Thread-EU-draft-directive-to-be-presented-on-wed-19th-Dec?page=5

    post44 I just noticed seems to think the same


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    #17
    Vaperus
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Vaperus


    Plasma concentration


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    #18
    kiffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭kiffy


    tommy2bad wrote: »
    Jail time ;)
    Very good Tommy like your wit :D

    Fek it ordered a 30ml bottle of my favourite Mom & Pops juice (my favourite any juice) from the states at 5mg (no not 5ng's pi$$ off with your ng's and plasma's ur doing my head in :p) to try it at that low.

    Maybe the less nicotine in the juice might enhance the the flavour more and compensate for lack of a fix (but f.u.c.k.i.n.g doubt it very much) :(


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    #19
    krissovo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    kiffy wrote: »
    Maybe the less nicotine in the juice might enhance the the flavour more and compensate for lack of a fix (but f.u.c.k.i.n.g doubt it very much) :(

    The right devices can give a lot kick at low nicotine levels and may surprise you.

    A boge SR carto with a provari at 4.8 volts gives a small throat hit with 0mg DKS juices. 6mg juices is the equivalent of 12mg with this setup I find compared to a ego c or similar. Ok you may need to vape a bit more initially but it does not take long to comfortably reduce your nic.


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    #20
    was.deevey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭was.deevey


    The right devices can give a lot kick at low nicotine levels and may surprise you.

    Unfortunatly the right devices tend to be a lil bigger than your regular 650mah ego's :-S which will turn new vapours off using them altogether.

    And incidentally I only had enough Nicotine solution the whole of last week to ration it between a few bottles of about 2mg juice.

    Throat hit: bleah
    Flavour: warm and fluffy as opposed to Yeah that hits the spot
    My Body and Brain said:This ain't working go-on have a real one

    Which I did eventually, It was like an alcoholic trying to get a fix off a Club Shandy and that was on a Genesis.


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    #21
    kiffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭kiffy


    krissovo wrote: »
    The right devices can give a lot kick at low nicotine levels and may surprise you.

    A boge SR carto with a provari at 4.8 volts gives a small throat hit with 0mg DKS juices. 6mg juices is the equivalent of 12mg with this setup I find compared to a ego c or similar. Ok you may need to vape a bit more initially but it does not take long to comfortably reduce your nic.
    I tried Boge's in my long and expensive search for the right set up, but I never found the flavour as good from carto's as from tanks.
    You might be right when you say "but it does not take long to comfortably reduce your nic." but I'd rather have a choice than have it shoved on me by clueless mindless plicks in Brussels.

    Just dawned on me that maybe the powers that be in the EU are the same as our lot here, meaning: We keep hearing pre budget time that fags will go up by €1 or €2 a packet, then feel relieved when they only go up by 50 cents. Wonder if this directive will be something similar, will the 4mg which is pi$$ing ppl off might actually come out as 8mg or similar and ppl will then be delighted at the 8mg threshold. just a thought (or a grab at desperation :()


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    #22
    kiffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭kiffy


    was.deevey wrote: »
    And incidentally I only had enough Nicotine solution the whole of last week to ration it between a few bottles of about 2mg juice.

    Wes why didn't you order some bottled juice then to fill the gap, you would have got it the next day rather than ration what you had, and revert back to the dreaded weed killer?


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    #23
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    Mechanical mods, stacked batteries and four coils'll almost fix a 4-8mg limit for me.
    It'll be a step down, but not as bad as I was imagining.


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    #24
    kiffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭kiffy


    grindle wrote: »
    Mechanical mods, stacked batteries and four coils'll almost fix a 4-8mg limit for me.
    It'll be a step down, but not as bad as I was imagining.
    And a drop of Vodka for extra hit ;)
    We'el go from Nic addicts to alcoholics :eek:


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    #25
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    Start being an alcoholic?

    I thought we were born this way.


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    #26
    kiffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭kiffy


    grindle wrote: »
    Start being an alcoholic?

    I thought we were born this way.
    Not what you mean Grind's, my wife keeps telling me I have a drink problem, but I keep telling her I don't have a problem I like it.


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    #27
    was.deevey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭was.deevey


    Wes why didn't you order some bottled juice then to fill the gap, you would have got it the next day rather than ration what you had, and revert back to the dreaded weed killer?

    Mainly because its more expensive to vape than smoke over here, decent juice will run you 5-6euro a 10ml bottle (Reason why I DIY) and totally hit and miss on the flavour unless you try before you buy, Smoking is 40 cents a pack of 20.

    Felt horrible though I might add. Anyhow I'm covered with enough juice for a few months now.


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    #28
    kiffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭kiffy


    was.deevey wrote: »
    Smoking is 40 cents a pack of 20.
    Bloody hell Wes where do you live? the 1920's :D


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    #29
    was.deevey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭was.deevey


    Bloody hell Wes where do you live? the 1920's

    Asia Currently :)

    Might add that if I was to buy local brand fags they'd be around 30 cents :P


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    #30
    kiffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭kiffy


    was.deevey wrote: »
    Asia Currently :)

    Might add that if I was to buy local brand fags they'd be around 30 cents :P
    What the foreign one's cost 33% extra, Jesus I would never pay that much more for fags, bloody scandalous price :(
    So which country you in Wes?


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    #31
    was.deevey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭was.deevey


    The Philippines :) .. and yep pretty much anything foreign is way higher priced double, triple or Quadruple the price if its made in: Europe, USA, Japan, Korea (anywhere except china rly).

    No joke, one could probably import Primark trainers (thats Penny's own brand for you snobs) and sell em for 50 or 60 euro here :-O

    Whats that compared to Irish prices on the fags these days anyhow - around 1200% difference ? Mind you Rumor has it they'll be going up to around 60cent a pack in the new year though. Even still Vape shops are Booming due to them being kinda "white collar status symbols".


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