EU draft directive to be presented on wed 19th Dec

Anyone

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

how exactly are the UKIP far right?

Not going to link a load of articles, but a search on Google should provide enough info for you.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i know their basic policies. far right isn't the term unless you happen to be an #occupy protestor.

they support gay marriage/gay adoption ffs

Anyone

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

i know their basic policies. far right isn't the term unless you happen to be an #occupy protestor.

they support gay marriage/gay adoption ffs

Do they? Anything I have seen suggests otherwise. Anyway, we clearly differ on what the UKIP represent and this isnt a political forum. My own personal views are that aligning or associating yourselves with the UKIP will be shooting yourself in the foot.

Vaperus

Nobody has said anything about associating ourselves with them, I certainly wont be.
Any public figure that gets the public attention on this isnt a bad thing
A hand full of people on here sending a letter isnt going to make a lot of difference we need lots of people to be doing it.
If Vendors dont want to contact customers then they are only shooting themselves in the foot.
If people cant be arsed to send letters and talk to whoever they can, its no good complaining when this thing goes through.
Yeah it might anyway but we have to fight it anyway we can

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Anyone wrote: »

Do they? Anything I have seen suggests otherwise. Anyway, we clearly differ on what the UKIP represent and this isnt a political forum. My own personal views are that aligning or associating yourselves with the UKIP will be shooting yourself in the foot.

it most likely will, everybody hates them but mainly because people believe what they hear from third party sources or their political enemies

I dont like the ukip but to suggest that they're far right by any reasonable definition of left/right is just wrong

stevenmu

Are people maybe thinking of the BNP? (who are really far right)

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

stevenmu wrote: »

Are people maybe thinking of the BNP? (who are really far right)

well the bnp are pretty leftie ecnomically

socially though they're just slightly to the left of the nazis... just ever so slightly

kiffy

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

well the bnp are pretty leftie ecnomically

socially though they're just slightly to the left of the nazis... just ever so slightly

Thread moved to the Political Debate Category

grindle

We should all be submitting our views to this email address:

tobaccodirective@health.gov.ie

As stated on this page.

The more they receive, the more they'll hear us, so everybody should be sending them a mail.

kiffy

grindle wrote: »

We should all be submitting our views to this email address:

tobaccodirective@health.gov.ie

As stated on this page.

The more they receive, the more they'll hear us, so everybody should be sending them a mail.

Done & done

Vaperus

Done mine, need to pass this link on to everybody we know and everybody that they know

kiffy

Vaperus wrote: »

Done mine, need to pass this link on to everybody we know and everybody that they know

Should be put up on the Irish vapours facebook group as a lot of them don't use this forum and might not see it.
And consultation period finishes on Wednesday 16th January, 2013.

Vaperus

You got a link for it Kiffy

kiffy

Vaperus wrote: »

You got a link for it Kiffy

Yeah tiz this one, copied off Grind's last post
http://www.dohc.ie/consultations/open/TobaccoProductsDirective/

Have put it on the FB page

Vaperus

No The face book group I cant find it

tommy2bad

http://www.facebook.com/groups/irishvaping/367542163342028/?ref=notif&notif_t=group_activity
Their you go;
Is it just me or dose the link lead to a russian site?

Vaperus

Nice one thanks
I didnt get a Russian site

kiffy

tommy2bad wrote: »

http://www.facebook.com/groups/irishvaping/367542163342028/?ref=notif&notif_t=group_activity
Their you go;
Is it just me or dose the link lead to a russian site?

You looking for a Russian Internet bride too Tommy

tommy2bad

Only if they let me move their if this goes through

krissovo

Just got a a mail from e-smoke Ireland , I must say I am really motivated now and my partner has read it and finally understood the effect of such a directive which could mean I may end up on fags again as we'll as some of her and my friends who have recently converted.

Can someone with some time on their hand take the lead here or a group of venders? I would be willing donate up to €300 right now upfront and a €100 a month for 6 months to purchase whatever resources we need to promote our cause. Be it web space or design for a site with signatures or just for a solicitor even whatever!

I will gladly commit in advance by PayPal or bank transfer. After my GP telling me my lungs on Wednesday were as clear as they were when I was 20 (now 41) this is worthy very penny.

Lucutus

Saw ESI's email and I've sent this now, curious to see if I get a single reply:

TO: tobaccodirective@health.gov.ie
CC: nessa.childers@europarl.europa.eu, patthecope.gallagher@europarl.europa.eu, phil.prendergast@europarl.europa.eu, gay.mitchell@europarl.europa.eu, mairead.mcguinness@europarl.europa.eu, jim.higgins@europarl.europa.eu, marian.harkin@europarl.europa.eu, liam.aylward@europarl.europa.eu, nessa.childers@votelabour.ie
SUBJECT: Vaping and the EU Tobacco Directive

Greetings!

I had been a smoker for twenty years. I have tried to quit numerous times without success, often with the useless 'assistance' of expensive NRT's like patches and gum.

I have been searching for a solution to a twenty year old problem for at least the last ten.

Three months ago, I started using a vaping kit from one of several Irish retailers who have embraced this truly unique advancement in tobacco harm reduction. I have not put a light to a cigarette since.

Vaping solves the problem by alleviating the cravings due to the relatively harmless nicotine in the product, however, it also emulates the act of smoking, (the habit), gives me a range of flavours much nicer than cigarettes, a throat hit from the nicotine and heat generated from the device and crucially, the sensation of filling my lungs!

Vaping 'gives substance to air', much in the same way food satisfies hunger. If you have enjoyed smoking ever in your lifetime, you will understand what I mean.

Today, it is easier for me to breathe, I have more energy, I am tasting food properly for what feels like the first time ever and, most importantly, I am not inhaling a range of harmful chemicals, as well as tar and carbon-monoxide into my body.

Vaping is the solution I have been searching for.

The proposal for a revision of the tobacco products directive puts out that the nicotine containing products (NCP) I use to keep me from smoking tobacco should be limited to 4mg of nicotine and anything which is above this level should be classified as a medicine.

This would not only be disastrous for me, as the cost of the products I use would likely skyrocket and availability would be limited, but it would also discourage existing smokers from taking up vaping as a harm reduction therapy.

4mg is nothing compared to most popular brands of cigarettes, if EU governments legislate on this directive along these limits, the benefits of this technology will be utterly lost on smokers who, when/if they try it for themselves will not follow it though as it would be useless to them compared with smoking.

It has long been my considered opinion that anything which stops people endangering their health from the burning and smoking of tobacco is a good thing.

Many will claim that vaping is untested, more research needs to be done etc, however, I can tell you from my experience with several products that it is far, far safer than actually smoking.

Although nicotine is a tobacco derivative, I trust that you will make a distinction between the dangers of smoking and the relative harmlessness of vaping vegetable glycerin with nicotine, ensuring that these products are affordable and readily available to all smokers as an alternative.

Thank you for taking the time to read my email and I hope you can give me an additional few moments to reply and share your own thoughts and opinions on my concerns raised above.

kiffy

Here are a couple of ways for some of us to increase the volume of emails to try and get the maximum out of our protests over the directive.

I already have sent 13 emails off (12 to the MEP’s & 1 to the tobaccodirective@health.gov.ie)

Today I got my 3 of my kids to email the 13 over their fears and concern for the heath of their dear old dad’s imminent return to smoking if this e-cig disaster directive is passed.

I phoned my doctor who kindly agreed to email all 13 over the improvement of my health and lack of chest infections since I switched to vaping (used to get a couple a year through smoking and bad chest)

I also contacted the head nurse at work and she has emailed all 13 as well and also uploaded my last 3 medical reports clearly showing the huge improvements specifically in my lung capacity results and also mentioning my past failures at quitting fags with pharma crap devices which the company provide for free to employees trying to quit fags.

So that was an extra 65 emails sent on top of my 13.

And then to put my points across better to the 13, I sent another 26 emails using 2 old email accounts I rarely use and using different names of course and wording them differently.

So that has been 8 different people (well 6 real ones but it’s for a good cause) making their point to 13 addresses so have managed to get off 104 emails.

So maybe some of you could get your kids (those who have them and they have email addresses) and maybe doctors or friends voicing their concerns. It all could make a difference (says he in hope)

Anyway I’ve done all I can just have to wait to see if any of our efforts make a blind bit of difference.

Vaperus

Good Job Kiffy, thats exactly the kind of stuff we need.
Everybody Else needs to do the same.

Ive sent one to the MEP's A few TD's and posted it on my Face book pages and so is my Girlfriend and her friends

I also sent an email to every vendor I could find yesterday

krissovo Dont be giving your money away. Everybody needs to do their bit. Anybody that you can get to send a letter

A lot is making the public aware as well, this isn't being posted through the door, most people wont even know it is happening until its happened

colly10

Just sent on there, I won't put it up here cause everyone on here should be writing their own. It's now or never so do all you can

UsedToWait

Just sent this, and will adapt it and send to all MEP's this morning too

A Chara,

I wish to strongly object to the proposed Directive on Tobacco Based Products.

Having managed to stop smoking cigarettes after over 20 years of addiction, it now seems that the EU plan to restrict the usage of the only method I, and thousands of others, have found to be an effective, and actually enjoyable way to make a positive step towards good health.

I refer specifically to electronic cigarettes.

I am certain that, if this Directive is passed, the effect of only permitting extremely low levels of nicotine will be to drive myself, and many others who have given up cigarettes, to fall back into smoking, with all the consequent health risks that involves.

Electronic cigarettes are generally only used by ex-smokers - they are not going to encourage children or anyone else to take up smoking - the only thing they will do is take strain off the health service as more and more people are discovering that they really work.
The effect on my own heath has been remarkable - I had been suffering regular chest infections, but since quitting cigarettes, they have gone, and my general health has improved immeasurably.

I urge you to oppose this Directive.

Is mise, le meas,

xxx

kiffy

One other thing I have come up with which maybe worth a 2nd thought is a petition of sorts, but not an out and out petition, but likes through our Facebook pages, if we all agree on a standardised write up and get all our FB friends to like it we can also send our FB links to the ppl we have already written to? Any thoughts on this?

I am sure many of you have gazillions of buddies, alas being a big bollix and an old fart I only got exactly 100 so maybe one of us who is eloquent to come up with a template for the rest of us to use and then get buddies to like, one that is not a plea for help like we have sent, but one to appeal to friends and family to support us in it’s the only other concept I can think of that can help our cause.

Any of you who want to be buddies with me and to like the article I will put up can send a request to
https://www.facebook.com/tony.kiff.1?

Or maybe start an online petition and notify our buddies of it and get them to sign the petition, but don’t think that would be as effective as most ppl wouldn’t take the time to do it.

CORRECTION 101 buddies Vaperus had already sent a friend request

Vaperus

Yeah a petition could be good, need somebody who has already done one, seems to be lots of places to create a petition but need the right place and it needs to reach the right people

Thought we had a petition on here once for something similar

Vaperus

A Few key points posted on the UK Forum

1. Write your own – authenticity counts, so describe what it means to you and what you want to happen
2. Don’t worry that you have to use technical or legal language. You don’t – just put it in your own words
3. Always be polite and work on the assumption that the person you are writing to will want to do the right thing – ie. give them the benefit of the doubt
4. Short is good, but keep to a couple of pages max
5. Always ask for a reply insisting they give their position and respond to your suggestions
6. Ask for a meeting or say you will be going to their surgery (and go). Explain what vaping is and why it has made a difference to you and what would happen if banned
7. Try to make a constructive proposal. Obvious things you could ask for:
+ remove the provisions on e-cigarettes from the directive completely because there is no evidence they are doing any harm and plenty that for you they are doing some good
+ a 2-3 year delay in bringing the provisions on e-cigs into effect (at present greater than 4mg/ml products would come under medical regulation immediately – a delay would give the manufacturers some time to get medical approval (if that was possible);
+ more study of the potential for tobacco harm reduction taking into account the people that are using e-cigs to get off cigarettes;
+ labels that really inform people that these products are nothing like as dangerous as cigarettes, rather than try to scare people off them.
+ assessment of the consequences of applying medicinal regulation and effectively banning e-cigs (ie. bad things that might happen).
8. Use writetothem.com to work out who to write to… MPs and MEPs should be your main targets
9. Start with MEPs – the directive will be scrutinised in the European Parliament at a session on 25 February – so that is an important date to work towards (see brief).
10. Directives also have to be agreed by the European Council (ie. national governments). So write to your MP and ask them to take the matter up with the Secretary of State for Health (Jeremy Hunt). This is better than writing directly to the Secretary of State or civil servants, or just to your MP. Not all MPs will contact the Secretary of State, but many will do that on your behalf.

kiffy

Vaperus wrote: »

Yeah a petition could be good, need somebody who has already done one, seems to be lots of places to create a petition but need the right place and it needs to reach the right people

Thought we had a petition on here once for something similar

Well I think the 13 we nearly have all sent our emails too would have the most effect, and maybe to party leaders (if we can find their emails) to get them aware as their pressure on the colleagues would be 2nd to none?
Only draw back is it will only have a major effect on the tobacco directive crowd until January 16th

Just had a brainwave :eek: we need someone to write to Joe Duffy explaining our potential plight, needs to be someone who can talk live and not freeze up like a kipper (like me) what better coverage than national radio listened to by hundred's of thousands each day, I'm sure it would be raised on his show with a possible phone link up and bound to be someone from the other side to put their points against, we could stitch them up well and good.

Look at the effect it had on bank guarantees when it was aired on his show, the minimum was raised from around €10,000 to €100,000 just because of the coverage on his show.

superneat

Just sent off an email to tobaccodirective@health.gov.ie there.

As someone who just started this week using a vaping kit, this would be devastating to me, if it were to go through!

I hope the government can pull the finger out and make an informed and educated decision on the choice they make.