EU draft directive to be presented on wed 19th Dec

kiffy

Just came across this on UKV
Heres' the link
http://ukvapers.org/Thread-EU-draft-directive-to-be-presented-on-wed-19th-Dec
Must see which vendors stock 4mg nic juice :eek:

Found another article which gives a bit more detail of the consequences of the propossed directive if it is to be believed http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/eu-wants-to-stamp-out-e-cigarettes.html

Tony Soprano.

Yet shops will still be allowed to sell cancer sticks containing over 4,000 chemical compounds.

kiffy

Tony Soprano. wrote: »

Yet shops will still be allowed to sell cancer sticks containing over 4,000 chemical compounds.

Money, money, money, must be funny, in the dickheads world.

donkey oatey

Did anything get decided at the vapemeet last week as to how we could form with an opposing voice/peer group/rabble to legislation?

Vaperus

Yes its something thats being worked on

tommy2bad

You got 3 days cos once this is passed it becomes binding on all member states to enact legislation reflecting the directive within 2 years.
I think this is done and dusted tbh, after Dallis resignation I thought this directive was dead in the water, the fact that it has been fast tracked again shows how determined they are.
Pharma and make no mistake pharma has the most to loose, are very powerful lobbies (ask Enda who has his personal phone number)
They want nic as a medicine and any availability outside their control is not in the interest of big business owning it.
Phizer spent millions lobbying for the snus ban and still say that snus is no competition for their products, don't believe a word.

Calibos

If this comes to pass, we'll be the lucky ones. We'll have enough time to either stockpile or start on the road to moving down the nicotine levels to prepare ourselves for 4mg or to give up nicotine altogether. The people I feel for are those that could have been helped by e-cigs as they currently exist but who won't have all the incentives we had to make the transition so easy.

ie. They'll have a choice between cheap 4mg 'recreational' e-cigs that just won't scratch that nicotine itch making the transition from real cigs much worse than it needs to be.

or

They'll have to pay rip off Pharmacy prices for higher mg 'NRT' e-cigs but without the financial savings incentive. A lot of us persevered through the transition period before we learned to love vaping more than smoking by reminding ourselves of the fortunes we were saving.

kiffy

Calibos wrote: »

If this comes to pass, we'll be the lucky ones. We'll have enough time to either stockpile or start on the road to moving down the nicotine levels to prepare ourselves for 4mg

Aaarrrggghhh the very idea of having to vape 4mg is a real nightmare thought, I found going down from 24 to 18 a big drop and took a good few bottles to adjust, now facing a drop of only vaping 22% of what I'm on now. Can't see me stockpiling much, will just go to the dail, shoot the teashook and his wardrobe colleagues get sent down for life and vape Phizers 18mg ecigs in Mountjoy for nothing on a free prescription with a medical card "simples"

Lucutus

12mg was my sweet spot from transitioning away from 20 a day silk cut purple.

Moving to 1/3 of that is not something I am interested in at present.

heavier smokers or smokers of john player, rothmans, major etc. will not move away from cigarettes using 4mg juices.

4mg appears to be an arbitrary number decided by people who are likely aware of nicotine levels and their affects, handed over to EU bureaucrats who know nothing about the subject matter about which they're drafting directives for member state legislation.

I guess the sale of high nic juices will have to be through those boys on street corners with their burner phones in future...

kiffy

Lucutus wrote: »

heavier smokers or smokers of john player, rothmans, major etc. will not move away from cigarettes using 4mg juices.

Isn't that the real reason this legislation is coming out in the first place, the powers that be don't give a f.u.c.k about the likes of you and me (were just statistics to them), or the horrors our families would go through watching us gasping for each and every breath as we die of smoking related cancer. It's all about tax revenue, tax revenue, tax revenue.

Ecigs are probably the most innovative invention in saving lives since penicillin IMO as Tobacco must be one of the biggest causes of death, It's a good job this lot were not around when the horseless carriage was first invented or we would still be sat behind horse n cart's. This was progress being stamped out for the sake of money and money men. As Abe Simpson would say "forshame"
Rant over

tommy2bad

No I don't think it's tax revenue, tax is easily replaceable by just adding it to the ecig price.
This is about eliminating competition for the medical nicotine. Pharma companies make billions from gum, patches and all the rest not even counting the value of treatments for smoking related illness.
If a safe form of nic delivery comes along and replaces the pharma products while stopping the revenue stream of cures then they stand to loose billions. Pharma wants a monopoly on clean nic, as I said they campaigned against snus despite the evidence, ecigs threaten that position in a way that cig don't.
Having said all that the Blog linked in the op may be a bit hysterical, if their using pharma grades of nic then 2mg and 4mg should be 20mg and 40mg to match the gum, patches levels. I'm going by the 'above that requiring a medical cert' thing as Intelicig have gotten certs for a 45mh ecig.
Also the plasma level is wrong in the blog so who knows what other errors have crept in.

Celly Smunt

what's to stop vendors slipping 20mg into 4mg bottles?,if ya get me

tommy2bad

pmcmahon wrote: »

what's to stop vendors slipping 20mg into 4mg bottles?,if ya get me

Jail time

Vaperus

If you read it it says "4mg per ml" which doesnt make sense as that would be pretty lethal

Green Hornet

No, 4mg per ml is standard concentration, albeit on the low side. When you buy 11mg that's actually 11mg per ml.

Vaperus

http://ukvapers.org/Thread-EU-draft-directive-to-be-presented-on-wed-19th-Dec?page=5

post44 I just noticed seems to think the same

Vaperus

Plasma concentration

kiffy

tommy2bad wrote: »

Jail time

Very good Tommy like your wit

Fek it ordered a 30ml bottle of my favourite Mom & Pops juice (my favourite any juice) from the states at 5mg (no not 5ng's pi$$ off with your ng's and plasma's ur doing my head in ) to try it at that low.

Maybe the less nicotine in the juice might enhance the the flavour more and compensate for lack of a fix (but f.u.c.k.i.n.g doubt it very much)

krissovo

kiffy wrote: »

Maybe the less nicotine in the juice might enhance the the flavour more and compensate for lack of a fix (but f.u.c.k.i.n.g doubt it very much)

The right devices can give a lot kick at low nicotine levels and may surprise you.

A boge SR carto with a provari at 4.8 volts gives a small throat hit with 0mg DKS juices. 6mg juices is the equivalent of 12mg with this setup I find compared to a ego c or similar. Ok you may need to vape a bit more initially but it does not take long to comfortably reduce your nic.

was.deevey

The right devices can give a lot kick at low nicotine levels and may surprise you.

Unfortunatly the right devices tend to be a lil bigger than your regular 650mah ego's :-S which will turn new vapours off using them altogether.

And incidentally I only had enough Nicotine solution the whole of last week to ration it between a few bottles of about 2mg juice.

Throat hit: bleah
Flavour: warm and fluffy as opposed to Yeah that hits the spot
My Body and Brain said:This ain't working go-on have a real one

Which I did eventually, It was like an alcoholic trying to get a fix off a Club Shandy and that was on a Genesis.

kiffy

krissovo wrote: »

The right devices can give a lot kick at low nicotine levels and may surprise you.

A boge SR carto with a provari at 4.8 volts gives a small throat hit with 0mg DKS juices. 6mg juices is the equivalent of 12mg with this setup I find compared to a ego c or similar. Ok you may need to vape a bit more initially but it does not take long to comfortably reduce your nic.

I tried Boge's in my long and expensive search for the right set up, but I never found the flavour as good from carto's as from tanks.
You might be right when you say "but it does not take long to comfortably reduce your nic." but I'd rather have a choice than have it shoved on me by clueless mindless plicks in Brussels.

Just dawned on me that maybe the powers that be in the EU are the same as our lot here, meaning: We keep hearing pre budget time that fags will go up by €1 or €2 a packet, then feel relieved when they only go up by 50 cents. Wonder if this directive will be something similar, will the 4mg which is pi$$ing ppl off might actually come out as 8mg or similar and ppl will then be delighted at the 8mg threshold. just a thought (or a grab at desperation )

kiffy

was.deevey wrote: »

And incidentally I only had enough Nicotine solution the whole of last week to ration it between a few bottles of about 2mg juice.

Wes why didn't you order some bottled juice then to fill the gap, you would have got it the next day rather than ration what you had, and revert back to the dreaded weed killer?

grindle

Mechanical mods, stacked batteries and four coils'll almost fix a 4-8mg limit for me.
It'll be a step down, but not as bad as I was imagining.

kiffy

grindle wrote: »

Mechanical mods, stacked batteries and four coils'll almost fix a 4-8mg limit for me.
It'll be a step down, but not as bad as I was imagining.

And a drop of Vodka for extra hit
We'el go from Nic addicts to alcoholics :eek:

grindle

Start being an alcoholic?

I thought we were born this way.

kiffy

grindle wrote: »

Start being an alcoholic?

I thought we were born this way.

Not what you mean Grind's, my wife keeps telling me I have a drink problem, but I keep telling her I don't have a problem I like it.

was.deevey

Wes why didn't you order some bottled juice then to fill the gap, you would have got it the next day rather than ration what you had, and revert back to the dreaded weed killer?

Mainly because its more expensive to vape than smoke over here, decent juice will run you 5-6euro a 10ml bottle (Reason why I DIY) and totally hit and miss on the flavour unless you try before you buy, Smoking is 40 cents a pack of 20.

Felt horrible though I might add. Anyhow I'm covered with enough juice for a few months now.

kiffy

was.deevey wrote: »

Smoking is 40 cents a pack of 20.

Bloody hell Wes where do you live? the 1920's

was.deevey

Bloody hell Wes where do you live? the 1920's

Asia Currently

Might add that if I was to buy local brand fags they'd be around 30 cents :P

kiffy

was.deevey wrote: »

Asia Currently

Might add that if I was to buy local brand fags they'd be around 30 cents :P

What the foreign one's cost 33% extra, Jesus I would never pay that much more for fags, bloody scandalous price
So which country you in Wes?

was.deevey

The Philippines .. and yep pretty much anything foreign is way higher priced double, triple or Quadruple the price if its made in: Europe, USA, Japan, Korea (anywhere except china rly).

No joke, one could probably import Primark trainers (thats Penny's own brand for you snobs) and sell em for 50 or 60 euro here :-O

Whats that compared to Irish prices on the fags these days anyhow - around 1200% difference ? Mind you Rumor has it they'll be going up to around 60cent a pack in the new year though. Even still Vape shops are Booming due to them being kinda "white collar status symbols".

kiffy

Some better news on EU draft, but unsubstantiated (as all of it is really)
http://ukvapers.org/Thread-EU-poised-to-ban-e-cigarettes-according-to-leaked-document?page=8
It's the very first post.
Where's my eVic Santa

grindle

The first post is from September. Do you mean this?

Stupid politicians.

kiffy

grindle wrote: »

The first post is from September. Do you mean this?

Stupid politicians.

The first post on page 8 smartarse

If there is three year consultation on ecigs before legislating (bif if), it will be impossible for them to touch it by then as the vaping numbers will be so high by 2016.
But it could be a load of tosh no mention of who it was that sent the ray of hope.

grindle

Ah. I have no page 8. Mine goes up to page 2. Hate short pages.

Hopefully it takes off the way we all hope and imagine. Battery tech should be pretty good in a few years too. The American government has set up a project hoping to make batteries last five times longer and/or become five times cheaper.
I'm down with that.

tommy2bad

The more I look at this the more confusing it is, if theirs to be 3 years consultation before legislating, why have a directive now? Unless it 3 years to implement legislation in member states in line with the directive. Remember an EU directive is binding on members.
Also looking at the reported figures, they make no sense 2% is 2 mg or is it? 2mg is actually 2 parts in 1000, sooooo?
If the % are right then the plasma level is so far wrong it's hard to believe.
I think someone is either misinformed as to what the directive contains or is guessing.
We will know once it's published but of core by then it's too late to do anything but comply.

DirtyBollox

it it comes to pass that vendors arent allowed sell juice containing more then the set amount of nic then i reckon they should give the higher nic juice away for a small donation

Am waiting to read it tomorrow when its published though

kiffy

DirtyBollox wrote: »

it it comes to pass that vendors arent allowed sell juice containing more then the set amount of nic then i reckon they should give the higher nic juice away for a small donation

Couldn't agree more DB, it will only go to waste anyway

kiffy

tommy2bad wrote: »

2% is 2 mg or is it? 2mg is actually 2 parts in 1000, sooooo?

Whoo Hooh 20mg so, that will do me nicely

tommy2bad

kiffy wrote: »

Whoo Hooh 20mg so, that will do me nicely

Exactly so the plasma level quoted should be in nanograms, otherwise it's well above a fatal dose. Also the mention equivalence to existing products, i.e. patches and gum so again it should be 25, 15 and 10.
I think the blog this leak was taken from is a bit alarmist and be stressing a worst case scenario.
We know that nicorette would like to be allowed sell NRT as an ongoing solution and not a time limited treatment. This directive may be part of that strategy as in they hope to level the playing field for all nicotine containing products by linking them to the NRT levels.
But that could be just me caught up in the spirit of the season and thinking the best of my fellow man. I may seek therapy if this continues.

Vaperus

I did say that already but got flamed for it, probably as Im a newbie which is fair enough

tommy2bad

Vaperus wrote: »

I did say that already but got flamed for it, probably as Im a newbie which is fair enough

Think you were just misunderstood mate tbh.
Any excuse for this:D

Vaperus

Yeah granted thats a fair enough excuse for that

kiffy

Think I'll stop beating myself up about the impending EU declaration and just wait until they make it public. Trying to guess what they intend is doing my nut in
But got 500ml of 50mg nicotine in my with list on one of the Irish sites just waiting to for "add to cart" button to be pressed. :eek:

Celly Smunt

kiffy wrote: »

Think I'll stop beating myself up about the impending EU declaration and just wait until they make it public. Trying to guess what they intend is doing my nut in
But got 500ml of 50mg nicotine in my with list on one of the Irish sites just waiting to for "add to cart" button to be pressed. :eek:

good thinking,where would one seek this nicotine?

grindle

Here or here.

The first has cheaper base w/o nic, the second has cheaper nic, but postage might swing either one way or t'other.

kiffy

The first has cheaper base w/o nic, the second has cheaper nic, but postage might swing either one way or t'other.[/QUOTE]
Bought a couple of 5ml bottles of white label juice at 6mg, to try and see what very low nic will? Be like, so chose 2 with mint in them for hopefully a bit of hit.

First one to try is Maeve and very surprised at the hit for a 6mg juice better than anything I've tried at 18mg, and great vapour off it too. So maybe 4mg wont be so bad with it if we have to go down that road

Going to try the Bláthnat after the Maeve 5ml is gone, on sniffing them they both smell the same to me.

Though it wont taste as good as my Mom & Pops favourite juice.

Green Hornet

Actually, I think Blathnad is far nicer than Maeve but probably not an all day vape.

kiffy

Green Hornet wrote: »

Actually, I think Blathnad is far nicer than Maeve but probably not an all day vape.

I'm just looking for a juice that hits the spot throat wise at a low nic content if one excited thats why I have gone for minty juice.
Probably be tomorrow before I get round to the Blathnad, but really impressed with the throat hit off the Maeve considering it's only 6mg strength more like a 24mg TBH, christ the 18mg must really knock yur socks off (vaping it at 4.6v and 2.7 ohms) that's 8 watts

DirtyBollox

Green Hornet wrote: »

Actually, I think Blathnad is far nicer than Maeve but probably not an all day vape.

I found both to be an all day vape!

kiffy

DirtyBollox wrote: »

I found both to be an all day vape!

Does Viktors mix up the juice himself or do they come already mixed at the 3 strengths? also pity they don't come in larger bottles than 10ml.