EU draft directive to be presented on wed 19th Dec

was.deevey

Consumers must not be cheated: tobacco products should look and taste like tobacco products and this proposal ensures that attractive packaging and flavourings are not used as a marketing strategy.

The proposal foresees a prohibition for cigarettes, roll your own tobacco and smokeless tobacco that have characterising flavours and a prohibition of products with increased toxicity and addictiveness.

Novel products such as electronic cigarettes have entered the market and recent marketing strategies involve the use of attractive packaging and flavours.

The proposed legislation consists of new and strengthened rules on how tobacco products can be manufactured, presented, and sold. More specifically, it bans the use of cigarettes, roll-your-own tobacco (RYO) and smokeless tobacco products with characterising flavours

All smokeless tobacco products must carry health warnings on the main surfaces of the package and products with characterising flavours cannot be sold.

From the Press Release - this could be a MAJOR problem concerning e-juices.

We can only hope that by 2014 they come up with a cost effective way to synthesize nicotine so it no longer comes under the ban whatsoever as it would no-longer be a tobacco product

eeloe

e-juice isn't a tobacco product though, and it shouldn't be labeled as one either.

was.deevey

e-juice isn't a tobacco product though, and it shouldn't be labeled as one either.

Yes it is - nicotine is currently extracted from tobacco leaves as its the cheapest method.

eeloe

But it's not a "tobacco" product, even tho it's extracted from tobacco.

If that's the case, patches, gum, tabs and all that malarky are also considered tobacco?

achieve

There were initial discussions regarding the formation of a group / association to promote vaping as a better alternative to smoking at a regional meetup a couple of weeks back. There is one planned for the East coats early in new year as far as I am aware. Think we need to get motoring on this much sooner rather then later. In the meantime I agree with Vaperus, time for ALL OF US to get letter writing.

illicit007

Fother muckers! First it was the mushrooms, then it was the party pills, now it's the vapes? That's it I'm going to start distilling my own vodka, growing my own tobacco and building my own meth lab. Suck the fystem!

Seriously though... this can't really be happening can it?

We must try to stop it, get a petition going, something. Else we can do huge group buy and pick up all the nicotine liquid available in Ireland and have under ground 'speak easy' style vape parlors going on. I wonder how much it would cost to buy a bucket load of nicotine juice and how long would it last?

was.deevey

But it's not a "tobacco" product, even tho it's extracted from tobacco.

If that's the case, patches, gum, tabs and all that malarky are also considered tobacco

Technically yes they are, however are already covered/approved/regulated as Medical Devices/NRT, a different scenario altogether to E-cigs, Smokeless tobacco products and Regular Cancer sticks.

That's it I'm going to start distilling my own vodka, growing my own tobacco and building my own meth lab. Suck the fystem!

You'd probably do less jail time for the latter soon enough :P

kiffy

Lady's n Gen't do me favour take a butchers hook at this.

I have written up a letter to email to all our MEP's. but not being very good at expressing myself, I would appreciate your feedback before I send them off.
Anything of importance I have missed out, anything irrelivent or sounds daft, please let me know.
Please feel free to say you should add this as well or change that bit to this as I want this to be as convincing as possible my sanity depends on getting the directive shot down.
Thanks.


I am writing to you regarding the new revised European Tobacco Directive that came out on December 19th, most specifically those parts relating to Electronic Cigarettes.

I do not know how much knowledge of this devices for nicotine delivery you have, but as somebody who smoked 30 cigarettes a day and sometimes more when out for an evening for over 39 years and was always unable to quit, in my 39 years I have tried many times to quit tobacco, firstly by going cold Turkey and then when the nicotine devices came in by using them, the longest I was ever able to stay off tobacco was 3 days, I tried patches, gum, inhalator’s and in some cases gum and patches at the same time, even after my father’s death from lung cancer (he was a smoker) in 2010 I was not able to stay off them for longer than 2 days.

Then one evening my wife told me about a nurse she works with who had started using electronic cigarettes and why did I not try them as a means to stop smoking tobacco, I did some research online and made my first order, my kit arrived on May 19th and I smoked my last cigarette before midnight the same evening, and from May 20th (7 months to the day today)I haven’t put another cigarette in my mouth, I found that all my cravings and habits were satisfied with the electronic cigarette’s nicotine delivery and the sensation of inhaling and exhaling water vapour satisfied my habit associated with tobacco smoke. I am amazed that I was able to quit so easily, much to the delight of my wife, four children and friends all who thought I was a lost case where giving up tobacco was concerned, I have not found it hard or had one craving for the deadly cancer stick since that first day.

One very good thing about the device I use is that it will not appeal to under age children to take up the nicotine habit, as my device looks like a small bicycle pump with a mini lighthouse stuck on top, but its appearance doesn’t bother me in the slightest as it is helping prolong my life now that I am not ingesting over 4,000 toxic chemicals into my system over 30 times a day. I no longer lie down at night in bed wheezing and coffin and get breathless doing a small amount of manual labour. I do understand that I am still addicted to nicotine, but what the harm, I drink 5 cups of coffee a day and am addicted to caffeine as well, but as far as I know neither will destroy my lungs and put me in a grave before my time through 4,000 deadly toxins.

The only people I know who use electronic cigarettes are people like me ex-smokers. And now the EU in their wisdom want to make the product that enabled me to quit smoking all but useless to people like me by restricting the amount of nicotine I use. They propose to restrict electronic cigarette liquid strength to 4mg per ml. to me this will be the same as drawing in air and is nowhere near the level myself and 99% of e-cig users intake. I currently use 18mg strength liquid and I know people who use 24mg strength. The amount of nicotine proposed as the maximum permitted in this EU directive would be useless for the majority of electronic cigarette users. An average from talking to fellow users seems to be around 12mg and anything lower than 10mg would just not satisfy the nicotine needs of myself and 99% of users.

I know for a fact if this directive is passed I along with most e-cig users will end up going back to smoking tobacco to satisfy our cravings for nicotine I couldn’t stay off them before I started e-cigs and I can't see myself being able to satisfy my habit with the proposed 2 to 4mg limit, and it will probably cost the HSE a considerable amount of money treating smoking-related diseases, as well as causing many more smoking-related deaths for those us who switch back tobacco use.

I am asking you to vote against this part of the directive, which if it passed and becomes law, will be responsible for illness and death in many people who no longer smoke thanks to e-cigs.

I don’t think I need to go into the pressure and gains the big tobacco companies and pharmaceuticals have to gain by passing this directive or the pressure they have probably exerted already as my new found lease of life and energy has cost them and they want it stopped. Please do the right thing and help save life’s, especially mine.
Yours sincerely
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

Vaperus

Looks pretty good to me better than what ive come up with so far. need to pull my finger out
but I wouldn't Sign it Blah Blah Blah :-)

Also on the UK forum they seem to be saying be careful using the term Electronic Cigarette
http://ukvapers.org/Thread-EU-Tobacco-Directive-out?page=8 post 80

kiffy

Vaperus wrote: »

Looks pretty good to me better than what ive come up with so far. need to pull my finger out
but I wouldn't Sign it Blah Blah Blah :-)

Also on the UK forum they seem to be saying be careful using the term Electronic Cigarette
http://ukvapers.org/Thread-EU-Tobacco-Directive-out?page=8 post 80

Yeah I might just use the term Electronic Ciggy first and only once and make a point of saying that we refer to ourselves as Vapers to distance ourselves from tobacco smokers.

Also think I'll send it all the MEP's and not just the Munster one's.

tommy2bad

Good stuff Kiffy, personal experience and your fears for the future, exactly whats needed.
Send it to all of them, both as an email and traditional post. (I won't recommend a brown envelope so they're guaranteed to open it as that would be just nasty ).

kiffy

I added this extra piece to my letter and think it makes a far better argument than anything else I wrote and totally bloody true.

"A lot of people I have come to know through vaping forums are talking about buying their liquid on the black market which is bound to arise if this directive is passed regarding e-cigarettes. Wouldn't this be a monumental travesty and will probably mark the first time in history anywhere that the public has had to turn to the black market to buy healthier products as a result of a government(s) forcing them to choose a more dangerous product."

Emails sent now to all our MEP's don't know if it will do the slightest bit of good

achieve

Well done Kiffy - great letter!

kiffy

achieve wrote: »

Well done Kiffy - great letter!

Thanks achieve I hope it makes them think a bit, I gave my son a gander at it (recently qualified as a teacher) and he changed a bit here and there to make it read a bit less like someone who was totally useless in school at Ingerlish

tommy2bad

I duno but if the shower we are contacting are anything like this muppet we might as well save our breath to cool our porridge.
http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/13559187462413461.html?
Depressing how bought and paid for thees thickos are.

Still have to try though.

kiffy

tommy2bad wrote: »

I duno but if the shower we are contacting are anything like this muppet we might as well save our breath to cool our porridge.
http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/13559187462413461.html?
Depressing how bought and paid for thees thickos are.

Still have to try though.

Well at least I can't feel bad about voting for anyone as I don't have the vote. Well for local and EU elections (still classed as a Taffy even though been here for 33 years )
But common sense shirley has to prevail :rolleyes:

grindle

"As co-chair of the 'MEPs against Cancer' forum in the European Parliament..."

Mm hmm. Not the brightest bulb on the Xmas tree.

"Yaw, yaw, I totally hate cancer, it's the wors.... What's this? For me? An envelope? And it's brown, and packed with money, how did you know?!? So, anyway, we've gotta keep this cancer train running. Everybody's gotta die of something, might as well be paying us to keep them on life support! And if they don't pay us for life support, they can feck off and smoke themselves to the grave, YawYawYaw."

Vaperus

UKIP have become the first political party, with representatives in the EU, so declare that they are firmly opposed to the electronic cigarette regulation proposed in the Tobacco Products Directive, and the TPD in general.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-fea...criticised

krissovo

Vaperus wrote: »

UKIP have become the first political party, with representatives in the EU, so declare that they are firmly opposed to the electronic cigarette regulation proposed in the Tobacco Products Directive, and the TPD in general.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-fea...criticised

Oh great....NOT! That's the last shower of shoite we want on our side arguing our points.

kiffy

Vaperus wrote: »

UKIP have become the first political party, with representatives in the EU, so declare that they are firmly opposed to the electronic cigarette regulation proposed in the Tobacco Products Directive, and the TPD in general.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-fea...criticised

Good news. That's 12 down 61 to go in the UK. but it's a start
BTW no reply from our 12 mep's yet, probably busy feeding and handing out Xmas gifts to the poor and homeless around the country, bless them :rolleyes:

DirtyBollox

Sure i email my local one a while ago now and got nothing back at all.

Vaperus

Not sure if it is worth sending that guy our letters as well to show our support.
I sent mine anyway I was technically from the UK well Wales so it kinda counts

http://www.paulnuttallmep.com/?page_id=24

kiffy

Vaperus wrote: »

Not sure if it is worth sending that guy our letters as well to show our support.
I sent mine anyway I was technically from the UK well Wales so it kinda counts

http://www.paulnuttallmep.com/?page_id=24

A fellow Taffy (or Wirish as I call myself ) Where abouts?

Vaperus

kiffy wrote: »

A fellow Taffy (or Wirish as I call myself ) Where abouts?

I was born in Swansea and lived in Llanelli for a while so A scarlets fan

Wirish yeah I like that. My kids are Irish thier mother is english but she ***** off back to England

Vaperus

krissovo wrote: »

Oh great....NOT! That's the last shower of shoite we want on our side arguing our points.

Anybody fighting our corner is good news whether we like them or not its not like we have to sleep with the guy or anything

kiffy

Vaperus wrote: »

I was born in Swansea and lived in Llanelli for a while so A scarlets fan

Wirish yeah I like that. My kids are Irish thier mother is english but she ***** off back to England

From Newport myself, well for the first 21 years, then 2 in Israel and the last 32 in Ireland, would still be in Israel if I hadn't met the wife there :mad: and no I wasn't on a spiritual pilgrimage, I was living on a Kibbutz

kiffy

Correct me anyone if I'm wrong but I have read what I could of the directive and nowhere can I see the sale of nicotine in 36/50 mg or any other concentration will not be allowed?

All I can see is that nicotine in e liquid can not be greater than 4mg. if what I said is correct what’s stopping us buying our nicotine online as before and mixing our own with concentrated juice to whatever strength we like? Or buying nicotine and spicing up our 4mg legal juice.

As I said maybe I have missed a part where nicotine sales will not be allowed, but can’t find any reference to sales of nicotine anything I have read???

krissovo

Vaperus wrote: »

Anybody fighting our corner is good news whether we like them or not its not like we have to sleep with the guy or anything

Its a party that cannot make friends or influence people apart from hard core electorate. Not great if its the only Euro MP fighting the corner, no respecting party MEP would side with them whatever the cause:(

Anyone

Vaperus wrote: »

Anybody fighting our corner is good news whether we like them or not its not like we have to sleep with the guy or anything

I think having any association with the far right will damage any point of view anyone wants to express.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

how exactly are the UKIP far right?