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07-06-2017, 12:45   #31
 
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If Labour win tomorrow, the UK and the pound will be in trouble. Corbyn and his student union politics would be the laughing stock of the western world. The only reason Abbott is where she is, is because she and corbyn were bumping uglies.


Anyway we can't chuck stones, we have Wallace and co.......
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07-06-2017, 12:51   #32
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Anyway we can't chuck stones, we have Wallace and co.......
No we can't.

How about something far more recent.

Fitzgerald and O'Sullivan said that Ireland is more than prepared for any terrorist attack. Cut to an interview on RTE yesterday with leading members of the AGSI and other Garda groups who have said that Gardaí are wholly unprepared and have not got the necessary equipment and training to deal with it.

The interview also went on to say that no meetings/briefings had occurred since the London attacks back in 2007. The exact words from the AGSI is "we're working in an information vacuum".
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07-06-2017, 12:58   #33
 
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Relax will ya Cass, charlie Flanagan says nothing like london or Manchester will happen here. It'll be grand.
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07-06-2017, 13:11   #34
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Well in that case, phew, what was i fretting over.

I mean it's not like we allow convicted criminals with terrorist links who came into the country on fake documents to stay here, just "keep an eye" on known terrorists.

I mean that has never been a problem.
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07-06-2017, 13:19   #35
 
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Rich boy Barrett want to open the borders and let them all in, that way they will love us and not commit atrocities. I wonder what the healy-raes have to say on the matter, God help us.
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07-06-2017, 14:20   #36
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So, about Abbot, firstly she's just resigned because of serious illness (no details yet, this is just on the wires now); secondly, read this:
https://twitter.com/MxJackMonroe/sta...19798017245184

She's had some bad moments in the last few weeks, but honestly she's had a solid career and the other side have had nothing but worse performances all day long and twice everything there's a TV debate (who the **** as a sitting PM doesn't go to a leader's debate but sends a representative whose father died three days earlier?). We're laughing at her grasp of the figures, but the Tories haven't provided any figures at all.

I kinda lean towards the impression myself that the BBC has shafted her completely because (a) female, (b) black and (c) Labour. And I'm not even sure which of those three raised the most BBC ire. I don't know if the BBC even know the answer to that one.

Yeah, I wouldn't agree with her on, well, a shed-load of things, but I can't think of a single politician I would agree with on many things. And most of them are incompetent ****-heels I wouldn't trust with the TV remote. Or just straight-up dog-whistling racists. A competent politician who will listen to data and arguments against something (as opposed to just letting you talk without bothering to listen to the words because they have no intention of changing their mind) - that's the acme, you won't ever get better than it. And you very rarely find even that.

And the BBC is a long way from clean-handed here; they just had a terrorist attack in London, and one of the ****s who did it was a follower of a fairly well-known extremist imam in the UK. Well-known if you actually watch the BBC that is. You wouldn't know the guy if you were muslim because he's been banned from mosques up and down the country for years and has been actively chased out of them if he tried to show up (seriously, it's been caught on youtube a few times, it's like watching what would happen if Gerry Adams had tried to speak during mass in Christchurch during the mid-80s). But stuff like that never makes the media because it's not simple and if it's not simple, you can't sell ad space near it. So they've had some extremist gobdaw on the Beeb for years and now one of the people they let him broadcast to has murdered eight people. And it's hardly the first time you could say that about the beeb.

As to Labour, well, they're not fantastic, but they're nowhere near as bad as the Tories, who are hell-bent on economic suicide and stand a good chance of taking us down with them. They get in and we're going to go from the UK and Ireland to Wangland, Scotland, NI and Ireland, there'll be pressure to reexamine the border up North (there already is some now) and that's economic suicide for us to try a taste of (anyone remember East and West Germany reunifying? Now imagine that if West Germany's economy had been on life support, because that'll be us). We're already in enough fun and games with that with the prospect of the return of a hard border up north, the GDPR meaning we'll have some serious work to do just to keep the internet pipes on (and that's a large chunk of our working economy right now) because they go via the UK, and the logistics of imports driving everything up the price on everything that doesn't come via Europe directly right now (meaning everything from oil to wood to paper) and that has knock-on effects across the board (want a new house? the wood has to be imported because we don't grow enough, and it currently comes from the UK because we're too small to go to the continent so we buy it off importers in the UK - they don't grown enough themselves either - and that goes to the wall with brexit so the lumber price spikes along with all the other materials, so the house price spikes, so the rent prices spike to keep track... it's all one interconnected mess).

For us, selfishly speaking, the best possible course would be for an SNP-Labour government that reran the brexit vote over there, and for that to see the whole idea scrapped. It wouldn't necessarily be something we'd enjoy, but the choice appears for us at the moment to be between being shot in the foot or shot in the stomach.
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07-06-2017, 14:21   #37
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Cut to an interview on RTE yesterday with leading members of the AGSI and other Garda groups who have said that Garda? are wholly unprepared and have not got the necessary equipment and training to deal with it.
Ah, here. Did they read that from PULSE? Are we sure they didn't think we were asking them about 7,000 stolen firearms or how many breathalyser tests they ran?
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07-06-2017, 14:39   #38
 
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Ah, here. Did they read that from PULSE? Are we sure they didn't think we were asking them about 7,000 stolen firearms or how many breathalyser tests they ran?
Or the very healthy float (400,000 + euro) in the till at the bar in Templemore, they must charge 50 euro for a pint !
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07-06-2017, 14:53   #39
 
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Abbott has had a solid career ? True, including the job the BBC gave her on the programme with Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo, so how biased towards her can they be ? She is no stranger to racist statements herself, including the critisism of white nurses being hired for a hospital in Hackney, and saying that black mothers are much better than white ones, but of course only white people can be racist.

If you want to see what the UK was like during the 70's, then Abbott, Corbyn, and openly Marxist John Mc donnell will soon show us.
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07-06-2017, 15:13   #40
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So, about Abbot, firstly she's just resigned because of serious illness (no details yet, this is just on the wires now); secondly, read this:
https://twitter.com/MxJackMonroe/sta...19798017245184
It has been reported on SKY and pretty much every newspaper that she was "stood down". That to me is not her resigning but being told to go away for a bit.

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She's had some bad moments in the last few weeks, but honestly she's had a solid career
Coming up to an election is not the time for "bad moments". In more than one interview, and not all the Beeb, she has been accused of booking her own interviews against the party request/demand she run it through the party leaders first.

If she is having a bad time of it then she should have stepped away. She must have a staff. Could none of them say "Hey Diane, you're going a little off script, perhaps take some time, clear your head and come back at it again"?

Politics is all about soundbites, remember Finian McGrath, but her career thus far is for nothing if she continues to cause calamity after calamity now.

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and the other side have had nothing but worse performances all day long and twice everything
I won't pretend to understand the ins and outs of the English political machine, but deflecting blame by saying the other side are no better is not an excuse for the actions of her. IOW saying yeah i'm bad, but they're as bad or worse is not a proper response.
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We're laughing at her grasp of the figures, but the Tories haven't provided any figures at all.
Again blaming the other side for being as incompetent is not a valid argument. Also hard to feck up numbers if you simply don't give them.

Seriously she said she had given 6 interviews before that. Would that not have driven home the figure. If it was a simple slip of the tongue then fair enough, but it was a Labour major policy announcement. not something you'd want to get wrong. Also she didn't correct herself, she went on to give two or three more figures that were also wrong.

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I kinda lean towards the impression myself that the BBC has shafted her completely because (a) female, (b) black and (c) Labour.
The Labour one, i'd agree with, but the other two. No. If you use your race or gender (and yes there are only two) as a reason to explain poor performances or incompetence then you'll never be held to account as they never change.

Emily Thornberry tried the same thing with Dermot Murnhagan when she couldn't answer his question. She said "it's because i'm a woman". So now it's not only the BBC, but SKY that are sexist?

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And the BBC is a long way from clean-handed here;
I have no doubt such interviews make for great TV, but with SKY now included you cannot claim conspiracy.

It's also still no excuse for coming onto an interview completely unprepared.

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As to Labour, well, they're not fantastic, but they're nowhere near as bad as the Tories,
But in the last few elections the Tories have won, and even in the last one in 2015 when they called the vote "too close to call" between the Tories and Labour, the Tories won by a majority.

Polls, exit polls and all other such stats are meaningless. Why? People will not tell the truth because they are afraid of being labelled. You said it above that if they are not X, Y, or Z, then they are flat out racists.

If people have views on certain things that others don't agree with then so be it, but why force that view on others and label them as racist, facist, etc, etc. for not accepting it. So because of this the minority view seems to be the majority until the results come in. Brexit, Trump elected, LePen coming close all show that polls are obsolete and people are not truly free to speak their mind. Look to the Antifa riots int he US. Kathy Griffin blaming Trump for her f**k up.

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For us, selfishly speaking, the best possible course would be for an SNP-Labour government that reran the brexit vote over there, and for that to see the whole idea scrapped.
Why?

Not why run it again, why should anyone get a second bite of the apple? Scottish independent vote went for 55-45 to remain within the UK. Now less than 2 years later they are demanding their vote again cause they don't like the result.

Brexit won by a slim margin, but won none the less. If the majority didn't like it then why did it pass/win?

To keep voting until you get the result you want is not a free election and stinks of the same crap the EU pulled on us with the Lisbon treaty. It also is an insult to the people that cast their vote with the implication they didn't know what they were voting for. IOW they are/were stupid.
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07-06-2017, 15:17   #41
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If you want to see what the UK was like during the 70's
Beats the thatcher years...

And what I *want* to see is the UK not try to relive the 50s by getting out of the EU. Because that'll do us some significant economic harm. The rest, I'm academically interested in. I've no real skin in the game (apart from some in-laws who are over there).
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07-06-2017, 15:29   #42
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Both of them appear to have gotten where they are either by weight [Ms Abbott] or by guile [the other one].

Neither of them appear to have clue. Both are world-class hypocrites.

As for the openly-supportive of the IRA person, Corbyn, a good buddy of Mr Adams and well-known in republican circles here in UK for his support for the likes of the late Bobby Sands, who thinks that hamas is hard done-by, and that terrorists in action should not be shot where they stand, but reasoned with, I really can't think of anything more to say.

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07-06-2017, 15:46   #43
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It has been reported on SKY and pretty much every newspaper that she was "stood down". That to me is not her resigning but being told to go away for a bit.
The tabloids are full of that, but they're usually full of something. She announced she was stepping down temporarily because she was ill and Labour appointed someone to fill in for her.

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Coming up to an election is not the time for "bad moments".
True. Lots more pressure on, lots more people watching.
Still though. Have you seen the people she's running against? If the choice was only her or them, I wouldn't need to think about it for longer than it took to confirm I couldn't emigrate.

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If she is having a bad time of it then she should have stepped away.
I thought that was exactly what just happened.
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Politics is all about soundbites, remember Finian McGrath, but her career thus far is for nothing if she continues to cause calamity after calamity now.
Yup. Not defending the gaffes - she definitely made them and definitely could have avoided them and she's not been a great asset to her party for weeks or months now. It's just that if the same level of criticism had been levelled against May as has been against Abbot, they would just have shot May live on air as an act of humane dispatch.
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I won't pretend to understand the ins and outs of the English political machine, but deflecting blame by saying the other side are no better is not an excuse for the actions of her. IOW saying yeah i'm bad, but they're as bad or worse is not a proper response.
It's not a defence - I'm just pointing out that it's not a level playing field. By quite a margin.
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Also hard to feck up numbers if you simply don't give them.
Yes, but they kindof have to give those numbers. Otherwise they're just saying "trust us". And that's... well, you don't run an election that way outside of the DPRK and North Carolina.
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Emily Thornberry tried the same thing with Dermot Murnhagan when she couldn't answer his question. She said "it's because i'm a woman". So now it's not only the BBC, but SKY that are sexist?
Sky... who are owned by Murdoch?
I'm half surprised their female presenters aren't required to appear in lingerie, given that under-bridge trolls' proclivities.
It's the BBC that surprise me, not Sky.
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But in the last few elections the Tories have won, and even in the last one in 2015 when they called the vote "too close to call" between the Tories and Labour, the Tories won by a majority.
Yup.
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Polls, exit polls and all other such stats are meaningless. Why? People will not tell the truth because they are afraid of being labelled. You said it above that if they are not X, Y, or Z, then they are flat out racists.
Well, what else do you call UKIP?
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If people have views on certain things that others don't agree with then so be it, but why force that view on others and label them as racist, facist, etc, etc. for not accepting it.
Because the people I'm talking about go around saying that the problem is all these foreign types... while talking about people who've been in the country as long as they have?
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So because of this the minority view seems to be the majority until the results come in. Brexit, Trump elected, LePen coming close all show that polls are obsolete and people are not truly free to speak their mind.
So Brexit, yup, polls were useless. And in the previous UK election. Trump was going to lose right up until the last day or two and then Comey virtually broke the Hatch Act with his press release and that sank Clinton (who still went on to win the second largest popular vote in US history). I'd lay that one on the russians rather then the pollsters.
And the result in Macron/LePen was within 0.1% of the polls' predictions.

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Kathy Griffin blaming Trump for her f**k up.
She didn't blame him for the sketch, she owned that mistake and apologised in public completely. She blamed the Trump family for going after her and effectively ending her career, because they objectively did, it's been reported on fairly widely. That's a sitting US president targeting a US citizen and hounding her out of a job because of something she said that he found distasteful... in a country where the first amendment says that's a protected act.
I didn't think the joke was funny (I thought it didn't go far enough and the special effects weren't up to snuff), but chucking your constitution into the plastic shredder because you have a thin skin, that's the sort of thing that should bar you from public office...

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Not why run it again, why should anyone get a second bite of the apple?
Lots of reasons:
- the UK doesn't have a referendum commission that puts out independent unbiased information about the vote, it's all partisan. So when you drive a bus round the country saying you'll give 320 million to the health service if you vote to leave and do a dozen other things equally blatantly false, you haven't actually run a campaign, you've just been lying to people.
- since the vote, far more information and analysis has hit the public domain so that people understand today far better the two options they had to vote on.
- since the vote, the natural process of aging and death means that even if absolutely nobody changes their vote and you just recount all the valid votes today, Remain wins.
- Remain had 16 million votes. Leave had 17.4 million. Did not vote had 13 million. Was not registered to vote (and thus couldn't) had 18 million. If you're just going to have one vote and say you captured the will of the people in that vote, you at least need to have more people voting than not voting.
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Scottish independent vote went for 55-45 to remain within the UK. Now less than 2 years later they are demanding their vote again cause they don't like the result.
I think they're more arguing that they voted to remain within the UK on the basis of assurances given and those assurances have not been met in the interim; and given the economic damage Brexit would do to them, they don't see the point in continuing to wait for those assurances to be fulfilled while the economy goes down the plughole until the day that Westminster breaks the news that the assurances were lovely aspirations but there just isn't a magical money tree to shake to pay for them.

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Brexit won by a slim margin, but won none the less. If the majority didn't like it then why did it pass/win?
Same reason a lie gets first class flights to the antipodes while the truth is digging through the back of the airing cupboard swearing under its breath about missing socks and broken laces.
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It also is an insult to the people that cast their vote with the implication they didn't know what they were voting for. IOW they are/were stupid.
Or, as lots of them have since said rather loudly (and proven, because it's hard to hide the side of a bus), they were lied to.
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07-06-2017, 16:04   #44
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Coming up to an election is not the time for "bad moments". In more than one interview, and not all the Beeb, she has been accused of booking her own interviews against the party request/demand she run it through the party leaders first.

If she is having a bad time of it then she should have stepped away. She must have a staff. Could none of them say "Hey Diane, you're going a little off script, perhaps take some time, clear your head and come back at it again"?

Politics is all about soundbites, remember Finian McGrath, but her career thus far is for nothing if she continues to cause calamity after calamity now.
That depends if you are a leader,or an autocrat and you actually listen to people you have as advisors,or you have a circle of Yes men and women and sycopantic monkeys and ass kissers.Who are at each others throats in efforts to curry your favour.Or are you man enough to accept that you are fu%king things up and need to change course?
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07-06-2017, 16:15   #45
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As for the openly-supportive of the IRA person, Corbyn, a good buddy of Mr Adams and well-known in republican circles here in UK for his support for the likes of the late Bobby Sands, who thinks that hamas is hard done-by, and that terrorists in action should not be shot where they stand, but reasoned with, I really can't think of anything more to say.
What a load of cobblers.
That photo you've swallowed is from 1995, by which time your government was in full-blown talks that led to the good friday agreement, so McGuinness wasn't just talking in the same room as Corbyn on one occasion, he was actively negotiating with number ten at the time.



I'll grant you I'm more likely to poke out my eyes with the pencil in the booth than vote sinn fein, but if it was a choice between them and johnson, at least I'd know I was being asked to choose between two peas in a pod.

On top of which, "terrorists should be shot where they stand" is not what the Shoot-to-kill policy means; "suspects should be shot where they stand" is what it means, and while the Met got it right this time, they've gotten it incredibly, tragically wrong in past instances, whether it's unloading ten shots into an innocent man's head on the underground or shooting a grandfather carrying a chair leg in the suburbs.

On top of which is the point that Corbyn and Johnson voted the same way on anti-terror laws in the last few years. An interviewer pointed out the written houses of parliment voting record on this to Johnson the other day. So you're not getting any different policy no matter which of them you choose anyway.
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