RSA ad on unaccompanied L drivers

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2019 1:39am

splinter65 wrote: »

Can you not tell us what you think is a suitable no-mercy punishment for this girl?

Custodial sentence and a lifetime driving ban.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2019 1:40am

road_high wrote: »

There’s no cronies- I just find your whole attidude horrible, cruel and unnecessarily spiteful. If other posters feel the same too then I think that says a lot. Not that you’ll listen or take anything from it.
You come across as wanting revenge and blame at all costs with not an ounce of compsssion or understanding. You’re to be pitied tbh

Wanting revenge? What am I being accused of going to do now?

Maybe you mean the TONE of revenge, just to clear it up early this time round like.

road_high · 06-01-2019 1:42am

Patww79 wrote: »

Wanting revenge? What am I being accused of going to do now?

Maybe you mean the TONE of revenge, just to clear it up early this time round like.

There’s no difference- we are on an Internet forum- are you saying we aren’t supposed to take you literally or something?

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2019 1:43am

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Could go on all night but it’s like talking to a wall.

You sound very sad & bitter. Enjoy your night

I’ll leave this quote for you again: “Hopefully she wakes up to the first thought of the two people she killed every single morning though, that would be the very least she deserves”

Vile

Why do you keep "leaving it for me"? I said it in the first place?

You'd almost imagine (especailly when you edited it in this time) that you're trying to put it on every page. Surely the cronies could coordinate that better between you all?

splinter65 · 06-01-2019 1:45am

road_high wrote: »

There’s no cronies- I just find your whole attidude horrible, cruel and unnecessarily spiteful. If other posters feel the same too then I think that says a lot. Not that you’ll listen or take anything from it.
You come across as wanting revenge and blame at all costs with not an ounce of compsssion or understanding. You’re to be pitied tbh

It is disturbing though. I’d be quite right wing and conservative myself but I can empathize because everyone of us has made mistakes especially when you’re young and most of us get away with it and there but for the grace of God go I would be a motto of mine.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2019 1:46am

road_high wrote: »

There’s no difference- we are on an Internet forum- are you saying we aren’t supposed to take you literally or something?

No I'm saying that you all trying to imply that I'm going to hunt down this person and exact vengeance or revenge on her is pretty vile in my book. Looks like you all like to get the knickers in a twist when it suits but aren't very good at practicing what you're preaching when it comes to the dirty stuff.

road_high · 06-01-2019 1:47am

Patww79 wrote: »

Why do you keep "leaving it for me"? I said it in the first place?

You'd almost imagine (especailly when you edited it in this time) that you're trying to put it on every page. Surely the cronies could coordinate that better between you all?

You sound very paronoid as well as completely devoid of understanding.

splinter65 · 06-01-2019 1:48am

Patww79 wrote: »

Custodial sentence and a lifetime driving ban.

How long of a sentence. Bear in mind her actions resulted in 2 lives lost and you want to show no mercy.

AndrewJRenko · 06-01-2019 1:49am

road_high wrote: »

She could have had her test and still been involved in that accident. Where’s there’s humans there’ll always be human error regardless of what plastic is in their wallet

They're not 'accidents'. They are collisions.

It's amazing how conditioned we are as a society to let motorists off the hook.

Breaking the law is not 'human error'.

road_high · 06-01-2019 1:49am

Patww79 wrote: »

No I'm saying that you all trying to imply that I'm going to hunt down this person and exact vengeance or revenge on her is pretty vile in my book. Looks like you all like to get the knickers in a twist when it suits but aren't very good at practicing what you're preaching when it comes to the dirty stuff.

But you’d sooner she lived a daily living nightmare. That way you wouldn’t have to do the dirty work. Nice

iguana · 06-01-2019 1:51am

Tbh, I think some of the fault is in the learning and licensing system. A year after I did my theory test I did 20 minutes or so of what I can honestly say was some the very worst driving I had done in months and I suddenly had the right to take a car full of squabbling children on the motorway on a daily basis. It just seems really unbalanced somehow. You go from passing a theory test to being allowed to just drive on the roads as long as someone with a license sits next to you. Without any practical lessons whatsoever you could be out on the N7 in a large van with no rear view and 3 screaming kids in the back, alongside your granny who hasn't actually driven in 15 years. Or after 12 lessons, 6 months and 20 minutes of quiet, suburban driving on a nice day was over, just you and the screaming kids can do loops of the M50 on an icy morning or drive the Gap of Dunloe in a storm.

It's just all so uneven a system and the reality is that it allows people on the road who are often not remotely prepared for the type of driving they are doing. While the nearly 6 month wait for test dates just magnifies the pressure for excellent drivers who crumble under the pressure of a test. Should a young woman who had a few months of 'driving' and 9 lessons under her belt have been out alone in a car? Absolutely not. Is there a strong possibility that had her parent or a responsible older sibling been in the car with her that they would have told her to slow down before the bend? Almost certainly. But was the law enough of a preventative measure? Not necessarily. She could have been accompanied by a similarly young friend who was a licensed driver of 2+ years but not confident enough to correct her driving and still have been within the law. She could have been accompanied by the type of adult driver who is cockily blasé about the risks of driving on our rural roads and didn't tell her to slow in time. And our rural roads are full of those drivers so the odds of that aren't low. She could have been accompanied by an excellent driver who is a crap teacher who could have agitated her and made her driving worse. I honestly think that the RSA should be focussing on changing the whole learning to drive process rather than attempting to scare and shame people into complying with a very flawed system.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2019 1:53am

road_high wrote: »

But you’d sooner she lived a daily living nightmare. That way you wouldn’t have to do the dirty work. Nice

Do the dirty work? Listen to what you're saying for Gods sake.

You've gone from being holier than thou to an absolute raving lunatic in about ten minutes. What exactly are you accusing me of going to do? Or how are you mixing this all up as something Im going to do? You haven't a clue what you're at but your standards are so two faced at this stage that I don't think you ever will.

06-01-2019 1:53am

Victor wrote: »

RSA have indicated that approximately 12 fatalities per year involve leaner drivers, 10 of which are unaccompanied.

The vast majority of collisions involved fully licensed drivers are because the vast majority of drivers are fully licensed drivers and they do the most driving.

Thanks, sort of found where I had the stats from before....
On your last point, of course that’s correct. 94% of fatalities come from the 91% of drivers that hold a full license.

Victor · 06-01-2019 2:06am

splinter65 wrote: »

How long of a sentence. Bear in mind her actions resulted in 2 lives lost and you want to show no mercy.

If you go out on a Saturday night and end up in a fight and kill someone, you are likely to end up with a manslaughter conviction and a sentence of about 7 years.

If one drives dangerously and breaks the law, one should at least expect actual prison time.

gctest50 · 06-01-2019 2:10am

When the RSa do an advert like that they should publish all the engineer reports relating to it etc

road_high · 06-01-2019 2:17am

Patww79 wrote: »

Do the dirty work? Listen to what you're saying for Gods sake.

You've gone from being holier than thou to an absolute raving lunatic in about ten minutes. What exactly are you accusing me of going to do? Or how are you mixing this all up as something Im going to do? You haven't a clue what you're at but your standards are so two faced at this stage that I don't think you ever will.

Pot kettle and black defo spring to mind. Your earlier posts sort of make more sense to me alright.

North Cork Star · 06-01-2019 2:21am

Patww79 wrote: »

And he's dead right too. She should never be let forget.

She killed his family, what's he meant to do? Invite the family round for tea and a hug every day? Wise up and join the real world.

Did she set out to kill them that day? You think that the man is right to keep reminding this girl of her wrongdoings? This man needs to move on and leave that girl alone. I've no problem him campaigning about Learner Drivers Law.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2019 2:22am

road_high wrote: »

Pot kettle and black defo spring to mind. Your earlier posts sort of make more sense to me alright.

Yours make no sense to me if I'm honest. From coming across highly offended to the absolute maximum and then to be able to come out with some of the things you have and then just start making stuff up. I don't get it at all. You either have morals or you're in the gutter, you're pretending to be one and being the other.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2019 2:23am

North Cork Star wrote: »

Did she set out to kill them that day? You think that the man is right to keep reminding this girl of her wrongdoings? This man needs to move on and leave that girl alone. I've no problem him campaigning about Learner Drivers Law.

Leave her alone? Yeah she's the victim and he's the big bad one in all this :rolleyes:

North Cork Star · 06-01-2019 2:28am

lbc2019 wrote: »

He’s makibg her life a misery? Oh the irony

There was no intention in the girl's actions though. It was unfortunate and she admitted her wrongdoings in court, accepted her punishment and wished it never happened. The man has to realise that.

eviltwin · 06-01-2019 2:44am

I didn't like the ad either and felt it was overkill. It's misery porn at this stage. I understand the family pushing for this but I feel the ads, news reports, newspaper articles were too much and felt exploitative.

I feel for the driver of the other car and her family.

My dad was hit by a drunk driver and thankfully survived but was left permanently disabled. The driver had been out the night before and thought he was fine but was still over the limit. It wasn't intentional, he was distraught. I can't feel any anger towards him.

The girl has paid her price and will carry the guilt around forever. I think she should be left alone now.

Charles Babbage · 06-01-2019 2:56am

The only issues in this ad are whether it actually affects people's behaviour and whether the family of the victims are happy to be in it. The culprit should be neither here nor there in this decision.

Mind you spending the same amount of money having guards stop cars anywhere these culprits hang out might be better.

punisher5112 · 06-01-2019 2:59am

Gardai are now the biggest tax collector of the state the way things are going.

gctest50 · 06-01-2019 3:18am

Here's another beauty from down there ( 2009 g-earth though so might be fixed by now )

Fixing the likes of this up would be better than a misery porn ad

right across from the entrance to a co-op or something :

https://goo.gl/maps/FjCwBsJEGEv

square ball · 06-01-2019 3:33am

The driver has already been punished. I understand she broke the law regarding driving unaccompanied but even at that time it wasn't enforced or adhered to by the majority of drivers. She wasn't't speeding, on her phone or intoxicated while driving. She made a mistake while driving. Something the vast majority of us have done except this one had the worst possible outcome. She has shown remorse and the campaign is very harsh. I do feel extremely sorry for the victims family and understand how difficult it must have been.

Honestly how many accidents or near misses have we all had when our mind was on something else? We all like to think we are better drivers than we are. I would say the majority of us in the last few months have either caused or been the victim of someone else's bad driving been involved in a 'near' miss. Even if that is just avoiding a minor collision in a car park.

The testing system in this country is a sham. 20 minutes spent ticking boxes in a town testing gear changes and looking in your mirrors and competency going from stationary to 30 miles an hour is hardly worth the time it takes to do it.

On Monday how many 'experienced' drivers do something unsafe or illegal in your commute to work. Some of the driving see on my daily commute is crazy. I have to go through 6 2-lane roundabouts to get onto the motorway every morning and at least 2 out of 5 days every week someone forgets there are two lanes on at least onr roundabout even though there is plenty of room if they were paying attention. There are road markings on approach and exiting the roundabouts but not on the roundabouts themselves for some reason. The guards are only worried about catching driver's speeding within 50 metres either side of a change in speed limits rather than use of indicators, lane changes, etc.

On another note do people here agree that the experienced driver in the passenger seat can be convicted for being intoxicated and disqualified from driving even though they weren't behind the wheel?

punisher5112 · 06-01-2019 3:35am

Reminds .e of the n4 near Sligo.

Lethal ditch or drain and it claimed lives.

RSA needs to look at actual road safety at this level more.

Charles Babbage · 06-01-2019 3:36am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Gardai are now the biggest tax collector of the state the way things are going.

This isn't in any sense true and is a ridiculous thing to say.

punisher5112 · 06-01-2019 3:39am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This isn't in any sense true and is a ridiculous thing to say.

Joking aren't you. They are tax collectors.

It's the biggest money intake.

If they were interested in road safety they would be actually happy to prosecute.

I've reported numerous very dangerous issues only one went to court.

TheChizler · 06-01-2019 4:08am

I'm not convinced an accompanying passenger present would have avoided this incident. It would have avoided this thread and legislation though. They might have had some luck and warned the girl to slow down at this junction or something, in practice how often do accompanying passengers intervene? It's not like they're trained as instructors.

lbc2019 · 06-01-2019 4:38am

TheChizler wrote: »

I'm not convinced an accompanying passenger present would have avoided this incident. It would have avoided this thread and legislation though. They might have had some luck and warned the girl to slow down at this junction or something, in practice how often do accompanying passengers intervene? It's not like they're trained as instructors.

Well if your not convinced then lets wind it up so!

speckled_park · 06-01-2019 5:20am

Feel so sorry for the farmily. This accident could have happened to a full licensed driver, i read in an article that her mind was occupied on an upcoming appointment and wasnt concentrating before pulling out of the junction. The new rules may lessen deaths among learner drivers ( are there many per year?) but think they could go about it differently. Dont think the new rules are practical especially for rural ireland.

AndrewJRenko · 06-01-2019 6:25am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Gardai are now the biggest tax collector of the state the way things are going.

If only there was some easy way to avoid those pesky 'taxes'.

Victor · 06-01-2019 6:41am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Joking aren't you. They are tax collectors.

It's the biggest money intake.

If they were interested in road safety they would be actually happy to prosecute.

I've reported numerous very dangerous issues only one went to court.

https://www.audit.gov.ie/en/Find-Report/Publications/2018/vote-20.pdf

Receipts from Road Traffic Act fines €3,073,000.

Total receipts from fixed charge notices in 2017 was €17.27 million.

https://www.finance.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/FINANCE-ACCOUNTS-2017-FINAL-1.pdf

Total government receipts of about €55,511,484,000. So motoring fines are about 0.03% of government receipts.

That needs to be set against fees to the GoSafe consortium of about €16 million per year.

road_high · 06-01-2019 11:27am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Reminds .e of the n4 near Sligo.

Lethal ditch or drain and it claimed lives.

RSA needs to look at actual road safety at this level more.

That costs a lot of money, cheaper do ads that apportion blame.

lbc2019 · 06-01-2019 11:31am

If they have a sign warning of exposed verges etc the onus is on the driver to be aware of them

AndrewJRenko · 06-01-2019 11:35am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Reminds .e of the n4 near Sligo.

Lethal ditch or drain and it claimed lives.

RSA needs to look at actual road safety at this level more.

How does a ditch claim lives?

Did it jump out on the road and drag the drivers into the ditch or what?

road_high · 06-01-2019 11:35am

lbc2019 wrote: »

If they have a sign warning of exposed verges etc the onus is on the driver to be aware of them

And supposing an animal or pedestrian suddenly jump out in front of you- you have to brake hard and swerve on a wet, greasy road to avoid them- do you think a sign is sufficient to stop them hitting the obstacle or dyke?

road_high · 06-01-2019 11:36am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How does a ditch claim lives?

Did it jump out on the road and drag the drivers into the ditch or what?

Have you ever driven a car?

punisher5112 · 06-01-2019 12:08pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How does a ditch claim lives?

Did it jump out on the road and drag the drivers into the ditch or what?

You're having a laugh right.....

Collisions happen just exactly like what this thread is about.

There shouldn't be exposed drains, ditches or rivers without protection barriers to help prevent a vehicle entering such a thing.

AndrewJRenko · 06-01-2019 12:46pm

road_high wrote: »

Have you ever driven a car?

Only for about 35 years - cars, vans, minibuses, ambulances - and never once felt intimidated by a ditch.

punisher5112 wrote: »

You're having a laugh right.....

Collisions happen just exactly like what this thread is about.

There shouldn't be exposed drains, ditches or rivers without protection barriers to help prevent a vehicle entering such a thing.

Yeah, it's such a laughable topic, right?

Collisions happen because drivers drive too fast for the road conditions, or ignore the weather forecast, or are thinking about their upcoming appointment instead of their driving, or are updating WhatsApp or Facetiming while driving.

lbc2019 · 06-01-2019 1:22pm

road_high wrote: »

And supposing an animal or pedestrian suddenly jump out in front of you- you have to brake hard and swerve on a wet, greasy road to avoid them- do you think a sign is sufficient to stop them hitting the obstacle or dyke?

Expect the unexpected

DeadHand · 06-01-2019 2:19pm

An unnecessary, ugly and inappropriate ad.

This achieves absolutely nothing beyond the public torture of those involved and beaming further misery into people's homes so the RSA can feel useful and the shower who made it can pretend to be Martin Scorsese. Few young people watch television, fewer watch ads, fewer still are going to watch that horrible dirge and suddenly be converted. All it does is depress a load of people while improving none.

Look at how this thing is shot, all broody lighting and arty contrivances. Like an ugly little movie. This is the work of frustrated, failed film-makers who see a chance to indulge themselves through human suffering, secure in the knowledge they won't be criticised as the "work" is sacrosanct.

It's a grotesque vanity project.

AndrewJRenko · 06-01-2019 2:21pm

DeadHand wrote: »

An unnecessary, ugly and inappropriate ad.

This achieves absolutely nothing beyond the public torture of those involved and beaming further misery into people's homes so the RSA can feel useful and the shower who made it can pretend to be Martin Scorsese. Few young people watch television, fewer watch ads, fewer still are going to watch that horrible dirge and suddenly be converted. All it does is depress a load of people while improving none.

They publish the ads online too, where the young people do be hanging out.

punisher5112 · 06-01-2019 2:34pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Only for about 35 years - cars, vans, minibuses, ambulances - and never once felt intimidated by a ditch.

Yeah, it's such a laughable topic, right?

Collisions happen because drivers drive too fast for the road conditions, or ignore the weather forecast, or are thinking about their upcoming appointment instead of their driving, or are updating WhatsApp or Facetiming while driving.

What is the fascination that all crashes are caused by speed.

If you have that much experience then you should know anything can happen.

The mother and daughter would be here today if things like I suggested were put in place. They weren't speeding, the girl in the other car t bones them sending them off the road.

There are so many factors and of course I agree with what you say many are doing anything but concentrating on driving.

I wasn't speeding when my car went off the road, I wasn't speeding the numerous other collisions I was in either as I drive every day and drive large vehicles it happens quite a lot.

There are so many places that could be made safer for such freak collision and anything can happen.

Graham · 06-01-2019 2:56pm

DeadHand wrote: »

An unnecessary, ugly and inappropriate ad.

This achieves absolutely nothing beyond the public torture of those involved

The purpose of the ad is to initially raise public awareness and ultimately change behaviour.

The fact this thread exists and you are participating appears to suggest it's at least effective on the first point.

06-01-2019 3:01pm

Just for those "the test is 20 mins and a joke" people,here is the actual steps in getting a licence.

This is the Graduated Driver Licensing system operated by the RSA http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Driver-Training/Graduated-Driver-Licensing/About-GDL/

Also, it should be noted that 10-15 years ago, it was a farce, but the situation now is very, very different with a lot of changes made since 2007. See here for more details http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Driver-Training/Graduated-Driver-Licensing/GDL-rollout/

Theory Test
First up, the driver theory test checks your knowledge of:

The rules of the road
Risk perception
Eco-driving
Hazard awareness
Good driving behaviour

You cannot operate a vehicle at the this stage

Permit

Apply for the learner permit which includes an eye test report and medical report if you fall into certain categories

You can operate a vehicle when accompanied by a authorised driving instructor or a fully licensed driver. Note that you must be insured.

The vehicle you are driving must have L plates

EDT

Essential Driver Training(EDT) is a training course teaching fundamental driving skills to learner car drivers. EDT is mandatory to all learners who received their first driving permit on or after 4 April 2011

The Essential Driver Training course is made up of 12 one-hour lessons, which you must complete before taking your Driving test

LESSON 1: CAR CONTROLS AND SAFETY CHECKS
LESSON 2: CORRECT POSITIONING
LESSON 3: CHANGING DIRECTION
LESSON 4: PROGRESSION MANAGEMENT
LESSON 5: CORRECT POSITIONING
LESSON 6: ANTICIPATION AND REACTION
LESSON 7: SHARING THE ROAD
LESSON 8: DRIVING SAFELY THROUGH TRAFFIC
LESSON 9: CHANGING DIRECTION (MORE COMPLEX SITUATIONS)
LESSON 10: SPEED MANAGEMENT
LESSON 11: DRIVING CALMLY
LESSON 12: NIGHT DRIVING

You can operate a vehicle when accompanied by a authorised driving instructor or a fully licensed driver. Note that you must be insured.

The vehicle you are driving must have L plates

The driving test

The driving test lasts approximately 30 to 40 minutes and includes a number of different elements:
The driver tester will ask you questions on the Rules of the Road.
You will be taken to the vehicle where you must complete a number of roadworthiness checks.
You will be asked how you would carry out technical checks – for example, on tyres, engine oil, lights, and so on.
You will be asked questions on the vehicle controls, and you will be asked to demonstrate the use of secondary controls, such as the windscreen wipers, demisters, rear window heater, and so on.
You will then be asked to drive and to follow directions given by the driver tester. If you are unclear about any direction, please ask the tester to clarify.

During the test you must:
Maintain proper control over the vehicle at all times.
Show anticipation and awareness.
Take proper precautions when moving off, stopping, overtaking, changing direction and meeting other traffic.
Make safe and reasonable progress when driving and when meeting and crossing the path of other vehicles.

The test will end back at the test centre and the tester will give you the result with some brief feedback on how you performed in the test.

The vehicle you are driving must have L plates

Novice

A person granted a first full driving licence on or after 1st August 2014 must display N-plates on the vehicle for a period of 2 years, and during that period display N-plates on any other vehicle in respect of which they get a driving licence.

There is no requirement for novice drivers to have an accompanying driver – this is still only the case for learner drivers. However, a novice driver may not act as an accompanying driver for someone who holds a learner permit

AndrewJRenko · 06-01-2019 3:32pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

What is the fascination that all crashes are caused by speed.

If you have that much experience then you should know anything can happen.

The mother and daughter would be here today if things like I suggested were put in place. They weren't speeding, the girl in the other car t bones them sending them off the road.

There are so many factors and of course I agree with what you say many are doing anything but concentrating on driving.

In fairness, I listed three or four other typical causes, along with speed.

punisher5112 wrote: »

I wasn't speeding when my car went off the road, I wasn't speeding the numerous other collisions I was in either as I drive every day and drive large vehicles it happens quite a lot.

Isn't it strange how the headlines and these stories make it sound like it was one of those autonomous cars, controlling its own destiny; "Car overturns on the M50".

Why do we avoid the truth, which is: "Driver overturns car on the M50"?

magicbastarder · 06-01-2019 4:05pm

Graham wrote: »

The purpose of the ad is to initially raise public awareness and ultimately change behaviour.

apparently though we can't have ads using actual fatalities, involving the factor we're actually trying to highlight, because it'll hurt someone's feelings.

gctest50 · 06-01-2019 4:19pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How does a ditch claim lives?

Did it jump out on the road and drag the drivers into the ditch or what?

Since cyclists don't always pay attention :

they might end up in a drain all by themselves

(or in this case "helped" by an outside force ) :

eagle eye · 06-01-2019 4:36pm

lbc2019 wrote:

It will teach others not to drive alone unless fully qualified

It won't because it's not on Netflix or Amazon Prime or the BBC or Sky/BT sports.
It's on RTE which feck all young people watch.

RSA ad on unaccompanied L drivers

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