Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [ POSSIBLE SPOILERS ]

odyssey06 · 26-07-2019 1:34pm

Evade wrote: »

I think that might further neuter the Borg. Now it's not only the Federation that can hold them off but the Romulans too. There's a perfectly logical reason for the Borg to prioritise assimilating the Federation over the Romulan Star Empire, biological distinctiveness. Assimilate the Empire and you've got one extra species, assimilate the Federation and you've got hundreds.

Or maybe two, depending on where the Remans are now or perhaps the Remans are being confined to the box in ST Nemesis

pixelburp · 26-07-2019 2:38pm

Evade wrote: »

The energy seen on the outside of the cube isn't the traditional Romulan colour.

I think that might further neuter the Borg. Now it's not only the Federation that can hold them off but the Romulans too. There's a perfectly logical reason for the Borg to prioritise assimilating the Federation over the Romulan Star Empire, biological distinctiveness. Assimilate the Empire and you've got one extra species, assimilate the Federation and you've got hundreds.

I had thought the Borg just assimilate whatever they find, if it's of sufficient enough threat; and that the Federation were more seen as a broader threat to the species as a whole. And given the Romulans' would have a much more flexible sense of morality, they were probably faster in dealing aggressively with the first incursions of the Borg - again, necessitating a response from the 'invaders'.

Evade · 26-07-2019 3:13pm

pixelburp wrote: »

And given the Romulans' would have a much more flexible sense of morality, they were probably faster in dealing aggressively with the first incursions of the Borg - again, necessitating a response from the 'invaders'.

Militarily the Romulans seem to be roughly on par with the Federation (possibly due to a mirroring of the IJN's doctrine during WWII) and brute force rarely seems to work on the Borg, see Wolf 359 and the Battle of Sector 001 before the Enterprise showed up.

pixelburp · 26-07-2019 3:17pm

Evade wrote: »

Militarily the Romulans seem to be roughly on par with the Federation (possibly due to a mirroring of the IJN's doctrine during WWII) and brute force rarely seems to work on the Borg, see Wolf 359 and the Battle of Sector 001 before the Enterprise showed up.

Well I just mean in the sense that first contact with the Federation likely went a little different to the Romulans, especially if they came across the Tal Shiar. More likely to have shot first n' all.

Given the time-frames, the Borg may not have developed the kind of evolution against Alpha Quadrant weapons; heck perhaps Wolf 359 went as bad as it did because the Cubes had already figured out Romulans weaponry. *shrug*

Stark · 26-07-2019 3:21pm

Admiral Janeway in Endgame gave the impression that the Borg in her time period hadn't yet adapted to transphasic torpedoes and Voyager would have brought transphasic technology back with it from the Delta quadrant so assuming no-one ****s something up, they should have some defences against the Borg.

pixelburp · 26-07-2019 3:22pm

"Transphasic"

LOL, sometimes you just gotta stop, and admire the technobabble bullshít of this franchise

That's all, carry on!

Rawr · 26-07-2019 3:33pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Given the time-frames, the Borg may not have developed the kind of evolution against Alpha Quadrant weapons; heck perhaps Wolf 359 went as bad as it did because the Cubes had already figured out Romulans weaponry. *shrug*

I also often imagined that the noticeable advance-ahead in Romulan ship technology might have been due to the necessity to develop new tech to deal with the Borg.

A TOS-era Warbird hadn't a hope against NCC1701. When they emerge again in the 2360's, they had gigantic Warbirds one of which probably could destroy the new Galaxy Class. Beyond a possible war with someone like the Klingons or Cardassians, a Borg incursion into the Romulan Star Empire might have prompted this advance in tech, despite their isolation from the other powers.

Also, in many maps of the Alpha / Beta Quadrants the Empire itself is very large. However we only ever seem to visit the Neutral Zone or Romulus (which is not that far away from the Zone). It's possible that their conflict with the Borg devastated a huge chunk of that territory we've never seen. The interior of the Empire might be full of dead worlds and the scars of war with the Borg. We might only ever see an image of the Empire that they themselves want others to see.

Evade · 26-07-2019 3:34pm

pixelburp wrote: »

"Transphasic"

LOL, sometimes you just gotta stop, and admire the technobabble bullshít of this franchise

That's all, carry on!

They're torpedoes that are out of phase with the universe like the Pegasus' cloak or Geordi and Ro in the Next Phase, it's pretty succinct as far as Voyager technobabble goes.

Stark · 26-07-2019 3:36pm

Rawr wrote: »

Also, in many maps of the Alpha / Beta Quadrants the Empire itself is very large. However we only ever seem to visit the Neutral Zone or Romulus (which is not that far away from the Zone). It's possible that their conflict with the Borg devastated a huge chunk of that territory we've never seen. We might only ever see an image of the Empire that they themselves want others to see. The interior of the Empire might be full of dead worlds and the scars of war with the Borg.

Well we definitely know that Romulan colonies along the neutral zone were destroyed by the Borg. And Romulan space in the Beta quadrant is closer to the Delta quadrant than the Alpha quadrant.

pixelburp · 26-07-2019 3:43pm

Evade wrote: »

They're torpedoes that are out of phase with the universe like the Pegasus' cloak or Geordi and Ro in the Next Phase, it's pretty succinct as far as Voyager technobabble goes.

Ah, so presumably even the Borg can't adapt against that; seems like to make the Borg work those have to go into the bin.

Oh, and just to get it out of the way; I know we're all as bad as each other but ... ...

26-07-2019 3:57pm

Evade wrote: »

They're torpedoes that are out of phase with the universe like the Pegasus' cloak or Geordi and Ro in the Next Phase, it's pretty succinct as far as Voyager technobabble goes.

And explode across multiple phases at once, bypassing all but one phase of shields.

Evade · 26-07-2019 4:00pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Ah, so presumably even the Borg can't adapt against that; seems like to make the Borg work those have to go into the bin.

They probably would eventually but the destruction of the Unicomplex, Transwarp Hub, and the Queen probably set them back a bit.

It's possible that after Endgame Lucsly and Dulmur confiscated Voyager and the future tech on board.

Evade · 26-07-2019 4:02pm

Does anyone else sometimes wish they could replace some of the Star Trek trivia in their brain with something a little more useful?

pixelburp · 26-07-2019 4:36pm

Evade wrote: »

Does anyone else sometimes wish they could replace some of the Star Trek trivia in their brain with something a little more useful?

Yes, albeit replace 'Star Trek' with:

Doctor Who
Farscape
The Simpsons
Babylon 5
Parks and Recreation
...

And about a dozen other other pop culture entities that have no business taking up as much space in my brain as they do

My brother's birthday is tomorrow and were it not for my smart-phone I'd have completely forgotten

AMKC · 26-07-2019 4:44pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I had thought the Borg just assimilate whatever they find, if it's of sufficient enough threat; and that the Federation were more seen as a broader threat to the species as a whole. And given the Romulans' would have a much more flexible sense of morality, they were probably faster in dealing aggressively with the first incursions of the Borg - again, necessitating a response from the 'invaders'.

The Borg only assimilate any species they see as a threat or maybe unique biologically, with something to add to the Borg to make them better or stronger and with technology worth assimilating. Don't forget they totally ignored the Kazon as they seen them as too stupid and no threat to them.

I am sure there is a few other species they have ignored to but I think must of the Alpha Quadrant and some of the Gamma Quadrant species we know of would be or are of huge interest to the Borg and they would and have no problem assimilating them.

26-07-2019 10:45pm

Evade wrote: »

Does anyone else sometimes wish they could replace some of the Star Trek trivia in their brain with something a little more useful?

Absolutely not :-)

Mean Laqueefa · 26-07-2019 10:52pm

Evade wrote: »

Does anyone else sometimes wish they could replace some of the Star Trek trivia in their brain with something a little more useful?

Im still best friends with one barber and was super close to another growing up knowing who this guy was was better that knowing any other useless poop like

Plenty is haircuts, never a need to find X imo

Slydice · 26-07-2019 10:55pm

Evade wrote: »

Does anyone else sometimes wish they could replace some of the Star Trek trivia in their brain with something a little more useful?

nope!

AMKC · 29-07-2019 5:55pm

Can't believe how quiet its gone in here. So I seen that Robert Picardo IE The Doctor is looking to get a part in it too. Makes sense.

fixXxer · 29-07-2019 6:01pm

AMKC wrote: »

Can't believe how quiet its gone in here. So I seen that Robert Picardo IE The Doctor is looking to get a part in it too. Makes sense.

I enjoyed his little cameo in 1st Contact

AMKC · 29-07-2019 6:10pm

fixxxer wrote: »

I enjoyed his little cameo in 1st Contact

Me too. I was actually his idea. So far he has been in Voyager, DS9 and First Contact so it makes sense for him to be in this to be it on a ship or in Starfleet head quarters somewhere.

Evade · 29-07-2019 6:43pm

AMKC wrote: »

Me too. I was actually his idea. So far he has been in Voyager, DS9 and First Contact so it makes sense for him to be in this to be it on a ship or in Starfleet head quarters somewhere.

He could potentially be in STD. Either by still being online or the backup from Living Witness would get back to Federation Space sometime in the early/mid 32nd century

AMKC · 29-07-2019 7:37pm

Evade wrote: »

He could potentially be in STD. Either by still being online or the backup from Living Witness would get back to Federation Space sometime in the early/mid 32nd century

That could work alright if he wanted to get a part in STD as well.

What about the Borg in Picard? Do we think they are all destroyed or just changed maybe?
I hope there is still Borg maybe just with a more modern advanced look.

Stop moaning ffs · 29-07-2019 8:15pm

I somehow didn’t see Picard talking to Data at the very very end of the trailer.

Now I’m WTF?????

Smiles35 · 29-07-2019 9:15pm

Your not the only person that's happened too.

Rawr · 30-07-2019 9:48am

AMKC wrote: »

Me too. I was actually his idea. So far he has been in Voyager, DS9 and First Contact so it makes sense for him to be in this to be it on a ship or in Starfleet head quarters somewhere.

We also had "Neelix" in First Contact too.

Uncredited as the holodeck night club guy, if I remember right :P

AMKC · 30-07-2019 7:51pm

Oh no don't bring Neelix back that would be production Suicide before it has even started. Give it a chance at least and then maybe.

Justin Credible Darts · 30-07-2019 10:09pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

That actually looks rather nice, Medoc Bordeaux red ... if anyone sees it in ROI please shout!

star trek wines

https://startrekwines.com/

Smiles35 · 31-07-2019 10:57am

I'm wondering about the lack of of uniforms on this new crew. I know firstly it was one of the big draws, if not the biggest single draw to all the Star Trek shenanigans. I can foretell Picard suddenly insisting on them.

Inviere · 31-07-2019 11:07am

Smiles35 wrote: »

I'm wondering about the lack of of uniforms on this new crew. I know firstly it was one of the big draws, if not the biggest single draw to all the Star Trek shenanigans. I can foretell Picard suddenly insisting on them.

They seem to be a civilian crew though no? Ie, not a Starfleet one...

31-07-2019 11:11am

Stewart point blank refused to have them in the show. He's sick of uniforms

Apparently he had to do a self climb down on that, realising that he would have to wear a uniform for flashback scenes.

marcbrophy · 31-07-2019 11:15am

They're all Maquis :P

Smiles35 · 31-07-2019 11:37am

Inviere wrote: »

They seem to be a civilian crew though no? Ie, not a Starfleet one...

Ok, It might be a hard sell. But then again maybe the majority of civilian crews in Trek have uniforms. We barely ever see them.

Stark · 31-07-2019 11:37am

AMKC wrote: »

Oh no don't bring Neelix back that would be production Suicide before it has even started. Give it a chance at least and then maybe.

Thankfully he's on a random planet in the Delta Quadrant* so that makes it difficult to casually work him in.

* Lot of debate over whether Voyager was actually in the Delta quadrant towards the end of the series or whether it had crossed the border into the Beta quadrant and the writers kept referencing the Delta quadrant to avoid confusing viewers.

Brian? · 31-07-2019 12:37pm

Smiles35 wrote: »

I'm wondering about the lack of of uniforms on this new crew. I know firstly it was one of the big draws, if not the biggest single draw to all the Star Trek shenanigans. I can foretell Picard suddenly insisting on them.

Whatever it is, it better not be Section 31. I’m absolutely sick of that plot device. It worked well in DS9 for a bit. But by the time Discovery rolled around, in the past, they had entire fleets to call on. Some super secret organization that no one knows about.

31-07-2019 12:40pm

Brian? wrote: »

Whatever it is, it better not be Section 31. I’m absolutely sick of that plot device. It worked well in DS9 for a bit. But by the time Discovery rolled around, in the past, they had entire fleets to call on. Some super secret organization that no one knows about.

Like the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Orders secret fleets (secret even to the Romulans and Cardassians. Two rather suspicious races, at the nest of times)

Not that I am happy with the S31 super involvement (smaller is better, from the shadows, with them) but Star Trek has been chock full of rogue Admirals and conspiracy. Ever since Undiscovered Country.
Starfleet even developed a warship and no one knew a thing.

Space is a big place.

Brian? · 31-07-2019 1:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Like the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Orders secret fleets (secret even to the Romulans and Cardassians. Two rather suspicious races, at the nest of times)

Not that I am happy with the S31 super involvement (smaller is better, from the shadows, with them) but Star Trek has been chock full of rogue Admirals and conspiracy. Ever since Undiscovered Country.
Starfleet even developed a warship and no one knew a thing.

Space is a big place.

The Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order were just as bad at being top secret as S31, maybe worse. I am not a fan of them either.

I simply don't like the way they are used, it's annoying. Especially in Discovery.

31-07-2019 1:16pm

Brian? wrote: »

The Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order were just as bad at being top secret as S31, maybe worse. I am not a fan of them either.

I simply don't like the way they are used, it's annoying. Especially in Discovery.

While I agree, the ST universe has set it's internal rules and S31 is consistent with this.
What I have issue with is people using it to hit DSC over the head, while giving DS9 a free ride on the same issue (I'm not accusing you of this BTW)

Justin Credible Darts · 31-07-2019 1:16pm

Smiles35 wrote: »

Ok, It might be a hard sell. But then again maybe the majority of civilian crews in Trek have uniforms. We barely ever see them.

actually you sort of do.

In Enterprise all the freight cargo fleet of the ECS like the Fortunate have a sort of a uniform if only overalls with a patch

Inviere · 31-07-2019 1:16pm

Brian? wrote: »

I simply don't like the way they are used, it's annoying. Especially in Discovery.

Couldn't agree more, it's one of the things Discovery got woefully wrong.

31-07-2019 1:17pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

actually you sort of do.

In Enterprise all the freight cargo fleet of the ECS like the Fortunate have a sort of a uniform if only overalls with a patch

Whereas Cassidy Yates crew does not

Stark · 31-07-2019 1:17pm

I liked S31 in DS9. Agreed about Discovery, especially in season two. I thought the couple of teases in Season One (the black badges, the hint in the registry number) were quite good though. It probably would have worked better had Lorca turned out to be a S31 operative and they left it at that.

31-07-2019 1:19pm

Stark wrote: »

I liked S31 in DS9. Agreed about Discovery, especially in season two. I thought the couple of teases in Season One (the black badges, the hint in the registry number) were quite good though. It probably would have worked better had Lorca turned out to be a S31 operative and they left it at that.

Even then, prefer is Lorca was just a regular every day dickhead.
Discovery's version of Jellico

Inviere · 31-07-2019 1:21pm

Ds9 got S31 right, very sparingly used, massively unknown, weirdly advanced tech, & importantly, you're left asking more questions that are answered. Discovery did to S31 what Voyager did o the Borg. Awful stuff altogether.

31-07-2019 1:29pm

Inviere wrote: »

Ds9 got S31 right, very sparingly used, massively unknown, weirdly advanced tech, & importantly, you're left asking more questions that are answered. Discovery did to S31 what Voyager did o the Borg. Awful stuff altogether.

Totally agree.
I'm just disagreeing with people thinking that they would not have their own fleets, when it's been shown in DS9 that other races's agencies do

Justin Credible Darts · 31-07-2019 1:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Whereas Cassidy Yates crew does not

she is an independent ship, where as fortune, horizon etc were all part of the ECS fleet.

Inviere · 31-07-2019 1:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Totally agree.
I'm just disagreeing with people thinking that they would not have their own fleets, when it's been shown in DS9 that other races's agencies do

I'd imagine the 'real' S31, ie, the DS9 version, has plenty of ships...all cloaked, possibly phase-cloaked, and very very few people ever set foot aboard one, let alone see one.

The Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order were less secretive I feel, and were used as a form of intelligence and intimidation of militarily oppressed civilians, than anything else. I don't think any Romulan or Cardassian civilians were not aware of either organisation. S31 was different, because it was supposed to lie outside of the realms of acceptability, and could not be acknowledged, therefore that's why nobody was supposed to know about it.

Archermit · 31-07-2019 1:42pm

Inviere wrote: »

I'd imagine the 'real' S31, ie, the DS9 version, has plenty of ships...all cloaked, possibly phase-cloaked, and very very few people ever set foot aboard one, let alone see one.

The Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order were less secretive I feel, and were used as a form of intelligence and intimidation of militarily oppressed civilians, than anything else. I don't think any Romulan or Cardassian civilians were not aware of either organisation. S31 was different, because it was supposed to lie outside of the realms of acceptability, and could not be acknowledged, therefore that's why nobody was supposed to know about it.

I would be quite surprised if s31 didn't keep the spore drive tech for their own needs. Would they still be bound by the rules of secrecy that the others were?

I personally cannot wait for the new show and with Seven being in it, will be see more of the Voyager crew (my fav show of the lot...closely followed by TNG)

H3llR4iser · 31-07-2019 1:42pm

I've always had the vision that both the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order were "top secret" in terms of the depth of their operations, not in their existence. As a matter of fact pretty much all of their political power and influence rested on the fact EVERYONE knew they existed and that they were not afraid to make a show of force. They were pretty much designed around the KGB/CIA/MI6 concepts.

Section 31, on the other hand, is downright illegal according to UFP laws - so by default forced to operate underground and with a limited availability of assets in order not to arise the suspicion of some upstanding citizen.

Then Discovery writers arrived with a hefty dose of 21s century ADHD and Section 31 became a joke.

TheValeyard · 31-07-2019 2:41pm

It would make sense if S31 did have spore drive tech. How they were able to bounce around the place carrying out Operations. Still incredibly stupid to make them so mainstream in Discovery though.

Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [** POSSIBLE SPOILERS **]

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Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [ POSSIBLE SPOILERS ]