How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

BonsaiKitten · 06-08-2020 12:22am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Thanks for the reply . Its just the thoughts of a young child be put in a storage closet scares the hell out of me . Some of them are 4 years old, I can’t wrap my head around it

Yes of course, frightening time for everyone and those words 'isolation room' aren't exactly reassuring. That's a completely understandable response.

No one will be putting kids in the equivalent of the Trunchbull's chokey, I promise you that. I have met some crotchety yokes in staffrooms but never anyone who would be that cruel to a child.

Don't forget that teachers went into the job because we enjoy working with kids and getting to see them grow - that's why we stay and pay for our own class materials, accept different pay scales etc. The Department know they have us over a barrel in that regard really as teachers want to do the best for the kids in their class.

It will be a very unusual start to September and no doubt parents, kids and staff will be nervous - you should see some of the emails I'm getting already - but the desire to do the best for the children is still there.

iamwhoiam · 06-08-2020 12:31am

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Yes of course, frightening time for everyone and those words 'isolation room' aren't exactly reassuring. That's a completely understandable response.

No one will be putting kids in the equivalent of the Trunchbull's chokey, I promise you that. I have met some crotchety yokes in staffrooms but never anyone who would be that cruel to a child.

Don't forget that teachers went into the job because we enjoy working with kids and getting to see them grow - that's why we stay and pay for our own class materials, accept different pay scales etc. The Department know they have us over a barrel in that regard really as teachers want to do the best for the kids in their class.

It will be a very unusual start to September and no doubt parents, kids and staff will be nervous - you should see some of the emails I'm getting already - but the desire to do the best for the children is still there.

Ah I know that they will be be doing their absolute best . But to read that a school is clearing out a closet is terrifying for parents reading that .
I was a paeds nurse , I know we and teachers of the young will fight their cause and do the absolute best for them . Even when we had kids in isolation we would shield them from it as best we could and many a nurse who sat in with them past their shift until they felt safe . There has to be a better alternative than a storage closet for a 4 or 5 year old child

BonsaiKitten · 06-08-2020 12:46am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Ah I know that they will be be doing their absolute best . But to read that a school is clearing out a closet is terrifying for parents reading that .
I was a paeds nurse , I know we and teachers of the young will fight their cause and do the absolute best for them . Even when we had kids in isolation we would shield them from it as best we could and many a nurse who sat in with them past their shift until they felt safe . There has to be a better alternative than a storage closet for a 4 or 5 year old child

Ah there's storage closets and storage closets though...I did a teaching placement in a school which had brilliant storage closets, they were essentially large walk in wardrobes. One of those would be ideal for an isolation room - don't forget that whatever it is, it needs to be big enough/in view for some kind of supervision. That alone means that the kid won't be shut away in the dark. Obviously I can't speak for that poster but I doubt that it's a case of shoving a kid into a cupboard.

Now in my school we are really struggling to figure out where to put an isolation room. At this stage I'd almost take that infamous marquee

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 06-08-2020 12:46am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Thanks for the reply . I can’t even imagine a young child being asked to wait in a storage closet ? It would take a lot of parents time to get to them even with the very best of intentions .

Don't worry that won't happen, huge repercussions for a school even attempting something like that.

If there is no designated room they'll be brought to an area to wait (similar to what happens now anyway just with some extra precautions).

Isolation area needs to be accessible to staff and pupils with disabilities, plus contingency for the fact that there may be several students who require isolation on any given day.

A small storage closet would not be suitable for any of the isolation requirements never mind the fact that it's basically child abuse.

iamwhoiam · 06-08-2020 12:50am

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Ah there's storage closets and storage closets though...I did a teaching placement in a school which had brilliant storage closets, they were essentially large walk in wardrobes. One of those would be ideal for an isolation room - don't forget that whatever it is, it needs to be big enough/in view for some kind of supervision. That alone means that the kid won't be shut away in the dark. Obviously I can't speak for that poster but I doubt that it's a case of shoving a kid into a cupboard.

Now in my school we are really struggling to figure out where to put an isolation room. At this stage I'd almost take that infamous marquee

Actually not being funny but a large tent like the ones they used for testing centres wouldn’t be a bad idea . At least a child might find it fun as opposed to a closet !

Purplewaters · 06-08-2020 1:06am

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

Don't worry that won't happen, huge repercussions for a school even attempting something like that.

If there is no designated room they'll be brought to an area to wait (similar to what happens now anyway just with some extra precautions).

Isolation area needs to be accessible to staff and pupils with disabilities, plus contingency for the fact that there may be several students who require isolation on any given day.

A small storage closet would not be suitable for any of the isolation requirements never mind the fact that it's basically child abuse.

If there are several cases together they should not be kept together as two may turn out to be a cold one and one covid. This is just the start lf all the issues that will arise from this plan.

Purplewaters · 06-08-2020 1:10am

pwurple wrote: »

Why in god's name have you been visiting them up to now, but September is different?

I have kept my distance from my parents since February.

Such a heartless comment. Imagine someone wanting to see their family. This virus cannot mean people being isolated away from their whole family for over a year. Have to say one thing about covid is it definitely shows people's true colours though. Some people aka this kind of post is someone who thrives on all thos negativity. A person is also entitled to want to see their family and do their job. Would you rather they sat at home on the dole and just didn't work and didn't have to face these issues.

BonsaiKitten · 06-08-2020 1:13am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Actually not being funny but a large tent like the ones they used for testing centres wouldn’t be a bad idea . At least a child might find it fun as opposed to a closet !

My friend, if you can find me a tent and an appropriately vetted person to supervise kids in it, my principal will bite your hand off for it! :pac: Tent would probably be entertaining for them alright but the supervision is as much of a problem as the location.

Purplewaters · 06-08-2020 1:13am

WorriedTeacher wrote: »

I have very rarely visited them. Once, in fact through the glass with my 98 yr old gran. She hasn’t held my 10 month old baby since lockdown. So find another reason to troll on.

Point and case why I haven’t posted here.

Sickening what people get their kicks off.

You don't have to explain yourself. You are entitled to work safely and see your family in a safe way without additional risk of knowing you have been in close contact with 30 to 40 kids instead of socially distant contact in a ventilated room spaced out and considered safe with everyone wearing masks. Really wonder about some of the posters on boards. Only joined and wondering why I ever did.

Purplewaters · 06-08-2020 1:16am

I really think the spot a kid waits for their parents is not as much of an issue as the catastrophic spread it will have if the child does have covid. Given they will be in close contact with all 30 kids it will blow up the R number. So 30 times say 4 family members for each child is 120 cases for every child who gets this. And that's not allowing for the fact tbe siblings may also bring it into their classes.

eclipsechaser · 06-08-2020 1:26am

I went into school today to declutter and measure my classroom. I'm lucky to have the biggest classroom by far in a very modern building (post primary). It's probably 50% bigger than an average classroom in the school.

With a 1m gap between desks, I can get 18 pupils into the room. Clearly no regular post primary classroom will be able to do either a 1 or 2 metre gap with a full class.

Are the government supplying teachers with N95 masks?

WorriedTeacher · 06-08-2020 1:27am

Blondini wrote: »

Nice opening post from someone who actually understands how schools work.

Just be prepared to be shot down here at every opportunity by the usual suspects who have never worked in the education sector and know SFA about ... anything really.

Good luck my friend.

WorriedTeacher wrote: »

I’ve been following this degenerate thread since the beginning of lockdown.

I’ve thought long and hard about the worthiness of posting here.

I think both sides have lost the run of themselves, running down a rabbit hole of endless vitriolic point scoring comments. Mixed in with trolls that just want to stir sh1t. Honestly speaking, after reading some of the comments here, it has made me question why I should stay in my profession if this is the level of hatred that exists towards teachers, when I give so much of my own life to educate yours while I neglect my own.

I think in the heat of the arguments we have lost sight of the bigger picture.

I don’t know the credibility of this journalism but according to Reuters, one person is dying every 15 seconds in the world from Covid. I can’t post a link but just Google it.

I wish all sides would just take a single minute to really think of the the human cost involved before they continue in their ‘debates’. One person is dying every 15 seconds, due to Covid.

There are a myriad of programs on RTÉ, BBC and Channel 4 to name but a few to educate us about the actual hard hitting, utterly heart wrenching reality of the lonely and horrifying death our loved ones face with Covid.

I don’t know how many of you reading this tonight have unfortunately had to deal with the real cost of this virus. The cost of losing a loved one.

Fortunately , I have not, yet, lost someone I love to the virus. But I have stood by while close friends and neighbours bade farewell to their own Daddies and Mammies, brothers and sisters. Unable to say goodbye, unable to give them a reassuring hug. Unable to mourn in a way that gave them closure.

I love my job. I long for and crave my silly morning singing and dancing phonics routines with my first class. I love teaching Maths. I love hearing children laugh and have the craic. Do I love holidays cry the trolls? Yes, who doesn’t. But this isn’t a holiday. This isn’t a happy, joyous time.

Both I and my students, want, crave and need stability, structure and routine. We all, regardless of sides in this ‘debate’ want and need to get back to reality.

I am a parent but as a teacher, I understand the inner workings of schools. I have no belief in the roadmap. It gives absolutely no advice on the day to day practicalities of classroom life. Do what suits seems to be the attitude from the Department.

When September comes, I won’t be visiting my mother, in laws or my 98 year old grand mother. It breaks my heart but that is the reality of opening our schools.

Open our schools, get our children back to education, yes, they have missed a lot academically. No doubt.

Open our schools, get our children back to education, yes, they have missed a lot socially and emotionally. No doubt.

Open our schools, get our children back to education. Safely. Without repercussions to our loved ones.

Open our schools, our economy has suffered. A lot of our families have lost incomes.

Open our schools. But, What price are we willing to pay.....my family are everything to me... I don’t want to lose them unnecessarily.

Thanks Blondini for your advice. I think I’ve vented my point and I think I’m going to park it there. My twopence worth has been vented. Over and out :pac:

Purplewaters · 06-08-2020 1:30am

eclipsechaser wrote: »

I went into school today to declutter and measure my classroom. I'm lucky to have the biggest classroom by far in a very modern building (post primary). It's probably 50% bigger than an average classroom in the school.

With a 1m gap between desks, I can get 18 pupils into the room. Clearly no regular post primary classroom will be able to do either a 1 or 2 metre gap with a full class.

Are the government supplying teachers with N95 masks?

Thanks for pointing this out. The government are not supplying anything. The only mask suitable for the type of set up theyre suggesting would be an n95 but you'd not be able to teach in them. The alternative is half in half out or all masked which still isn't really enough as it's a long day in a small room. Its weird leo said specifically he never said full reopening jsur a week or two ago so this seems to be the new government's way to try to look good by doing a full reopening. Surely they will have to stop renting the area they are for the dail for 25000 a day and sit in the dail again if theyre going to be sending about a million of us off to this kind of set up.

glack · 06-08-2020 2:01am

kingbhome wrote: »

No one is allowed to go near .my kids without my permission. If they want to take there temputure randomly, they may phone me so I can be present. That goes for pulling them aside if they they there's any suspicion about anything.

Maybe you need to consider homeschooling your child. Have you any idea how schools work? Or any service that deals with children?

Any teacher with any kind of professionalism will deal with a suspected case in the same way they will deal with anything that may be wrong with a child - calm, as little fuss as possible, a "no big deal" type of situation. Children regularly go through all kinds of potentially embarrassing situations (vomiting, damaged trousers, toilet accidents - this one is a biggie in senior primary as the embarrassment of this can live with a child for a long time - etc) and 95% of these are managed by the teacher, with little fuss and to the point where the other students are unaware anything happened at all. Someone often pipes up an hour later wondering "Where did Pat go? Is he gone home?"

We assess children throughout the day - who looks upset, or lonely. Who might be hungry (no breakfast situations). Who looks like they haven't slept etc. And then we deal with them to make sure YOUR child is cared for and feels safe. So with a sick child you might have a teacher/staff member ask them if they are feeling ok, do they feel warm. Let's get you a drink of water and maybe we will check your temperature to make sure you're not coming down with a cold etc. Normal conversations parents have with their children as part of the whole caring for them thing. If you don't want other people caring for your child, keep them home!!

Murple · 06-08-2020 2:26am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Thanks for the reply . Its just the thoughts of a young child be put in a storage closet scares the hell out of me . Some of them are 4 years old, I can’t wrap my head around it

There’s many a storage closet that’s been cleared (and sometimes left full) and being used as a support teaching room.
Despite a lot of what has been said, I still don’t think people have a proper grasp on how poor the facilities in a great many schools are.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 06-08-2020 7:09am

Purplewaters wrote: »

You don't have to explain yourself. You are entitled to work safely and see your family in a safe way without additional risk of knowing you have been in close contact with 30 to 40 kids instead of socially distant contact in a ventilated room spaced out and considered safe with everyone wearing masks. Really wonder about some of the posters on boards. Only joined and wondering why I ever did.

A lot of people are in the same position and have not had the luxury of working from home since March.

They have all had to make a call on whether to risk coming into contact with older or vulnerable members of their family while working.

This is not just an issue from September when teachers return and certainly isn't a decision that's exclusive to teachers.

All o the pupils families will also have to make that call once kids return to school, this is an everyday decision or sacrifice that a lot of the country has been dealing with for months.

Quantum Erasure · 06-08-2020 7:11am

Purplewaters wrote: »

I really think the spot a kid waits for their parents is not as much of an issue as the catastrophic spread it will have if the child does have covid. Given they will be in close contact with all 30 kids it will blow up the R number. So 30 times say 4 family members for each child is 120 cases for every child who gets this. And that's not allowing for the fact tbe siblings may also bring it into their classes.

It doesn't magically infect everyone that is in a room with an infected person, and then all their families as well....,

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 06-08-2020 7:15am

Murple wrote: »

There’s many a storage closet that’s been cleared (and sometimes left full) and being used as a support teaching room.
Despite a lot of what has been said, I still don’t think people have a proper grasp on how poor the facilities in a great many schools are.

Well there's storage closets and there's storage rooms, we know theres a difference.

If I came to school to find my child in a "closet" it wouldn't be the last of it and the school would be in a world of trouble.

I went to school at a time when children were seen and not heard and corporal punishment was still happening (whether allowed or not). Thankfully times have changed, children deserve to be treated sensitively especially right now. They've been through a massive upheaval.

thomasdylan · 06-08-2020 7:20am

eclipsechaser wrote: »

Are the government supplying teachers with N95 masks?

Probably not.

You do understand what patients and procedures N95 masks are used for in the health service?

xhomelezz · 06-08-2020 7:23am

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

It doesn't magically infect everyone that is in a room with an infected person, and then all their families as well....,

True, but it's still 30 kids as close contacts, doesn't matter if they split them into whatever amount of pods, with the classroom sizes they'll have to be all tested, if one infected kid is there. Pods are good idea on the paper, but reality will be different in most setups imo.

Minier81 · 06-08-2020 7:38am

For anyone worried about the isolation room, I wouldn't be. These have been set up on creches too, for ours the room was a previous shared play room. The name is awful but it is really just meant to be a safe place where a child can wait spaced out from others. For small children staff member will be with them, although the staff member would wear a mask for a sick child. There is no reason why a staff room couldn't be used if there was no other suitable room.

xhomelezz · 06-08-2020 7:45am

Minier81 wrote: »

For anyone worried about the isolation room, I wouldn't be. These have been set up on creches too, for ours the room was a previous shared play room. The name is awful but it is really just meant to be a safe place where a child can wait spaced out from others. For small children staff member will be with them, although the staff member would wear a mask for a sick child. There is no reason why a staff room couldn't be used if there was no other suitable room.

In school with 400+ kids, there is a big chance you'll have a few a day with some symptoms, not just one.

xhomelezz · 06-08-2020 7:48am

Different rules for third level? I'm seriously getting confused by now

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0806/1157594-third-level-guidance/

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 06-08-2020 8:15am

xhomelezz wrote: »

Different rules for third level? I'm seriously getting confused by now

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0806/1157594-third-level-guidance/

Most of them will be having minimal time on campus anyway. One day every three weeks for mine, the rest online.

Plus they are adults.

xhomelezz · 06-08-2020 8:21am

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

Most of them will be having minimal time on campus anyway. One day every three weeks for mine, the rest online.

Plus they are adults.

That's why it is soooo confusing. Third level rules vs secondary full to the roof schools rules. Makes no sense.

Plus they are adults?? What kind of argument is that?

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 06-08-2020 8:34am

xhomelezz wrote: »

That's why it is soooo confusing. Third level rules vs secondary full to the roof schools rules. Makes no sense.

Plus they are adults?? What kind of argument is that?

Difficulties with children managing masks v an adult, children wearing masks regularly for prolonged periods v adults wearing masks for few hours every few weeks.

Risks v benefits, don't understand why you can't see the difference between maybe a 13 year old boy and perhaps a 23 year old man.

Add to that the fact that there's a massive question over the efficacy of masks right now and speculation that they are actually causing more infections than they prevent through incorrect use.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 06-08-2020 8:37am

thomasdylan wrote: »

Probably not.

You do understand what patients and procedures N95 masks are used for in the health service?

Just a quick summary for anyone who doesn't know:

Surgical N95 (also referred as a medical respirator) is recommended only for use by healthcare personnel (HCP) who need protection from both airborne and fluid hazards (e.g., splashes, sprays).

These respirators are not used or needed outside of healthcare settings. In times of shortage, only HCP who are working in a sterile field or who may be exposed to high velocity splashes, sprays, or splatters of blood or body fluids should wear these respirators, such as in operative or procedural settings.

Murple · 06-08-2020 8:39am

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

Add to that the fact that there's a massive question over the efficacy of masks right now and speculation that they are actually causing more infections than they prevent.

I’d be interested in reading more about this- studies, evidence, facts and figures etc.
Can you provide any links as I can’t find anything on it?

byhookorbycrook · 06-08-2020 8:39am

eclipsechaser wrote: »

I went into school today to declutter and measure my classroom. I'm lucky to have the biggest classroom by far in a very modern building (post primary). It's probably 50% bigger than an average classroom in the school.

With a 1m gap between desks, I can get 18 pupils into the room. Clearly no regular post primary classroom will be able to do either a 1 or 2 metre gap with a full class.

Are the government supplying teachers with N95 masks?

The guidelines say we don’t need to wear gloves dealing with a suspect case , so “ no” to the masks .

Re isolation- the DES says to keep suspect cases in the classroom if there’s nowhere for them to go , because the virus isn’t airborne 🙄🤬

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 06-08-2020 8:43am

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The guidelines say we don’t need to wear gloves dealing with a suspect case , so “ no” to the masks .

Re isolation- the DES says to keep suspect cases in the classroom if there’s nowhere for them to go , because the virus isn’t airborne &#55357;&#56900;&#55358;&#56620;

Gloves are a haphazard for the same reason as some people wearing masks are. They are used in a clinical setting for brief periods during certain procedures and then removed or changed between patients.

I actually cringe when I see people wearing them out and about because they are wearing them for long periods and not sanitising or washing their hands. Again another example of how PPE is being used incorrectly and might cause more problems than it prevents.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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