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The glorious 12th

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    #782
    firemansam4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Yes this stuff is also appalling, but again it still does not go on to the same scale.

    Let's put it this way, if we had bonfires like this throughout the rebuplic on St Patrick's day you would be well within your rights to criticise us for it and call it out for a day of hate, but no you are googling single instances of these things that have happened over many different years and trying to compare it to what happens every year on the 12th.


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    #783
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,870 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Tell me how many recent ones you would like. I have tried to avoid posting stuff that shows nationalists in a bad light but since you are so much in denial I give you a few. If you need more let me know and I’ll oblige.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/burning-names-of-murdered-officers-a-hate-crime-t0l6jnfp3

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/bonfire-sign-glorifies-my-dads-murder-says-frazer-37197458.html

    We know that people do it on both sides. Nationalists leaders have been vociferously condemning those in their own community who do it.

    That is not happening in Unionist circles...you are demanding the right to do this, and to parade where you are not wanted, as 'part of your culture'.

    There is a huge chasm of difference there.


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    #784
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,870 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    That’s a bit rich. You had us back in 1962 looking for Paisley OO membership

    I simply stated that Paisley WAS a member of the OO. You disputed that for numerous posts.


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    #785
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    As usual on this forum, anecdote is not enough. I supplied this link which states 'Arlene is a committed member of the Order'

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Foster

    It is up to you to supply a link to debunk that.

    Just in Directly from the horses mouth. Arlene is not in the orange order.

    I don’t need an apology, a simple retraction will suffice lol.
    It is really interesting when this forum gives space to follow nationalists on some of the demonising of the unionist community their stories start to fall apart.
    Francie made the offer to challenge him on his assertions so I just took his next post and done just that. Every fact he stated has now been debunked bar the paisley membership of OO (which we discovered ended in 1962).
    I feel sad that southerners seem to take northern nationalists spin and exaggerations hook line and sinker.

    But a genuine thank you to the mods on this thread for putting up with all our petty crap to allow us to get to the truth. Some threads close unionists down when the screw is turning on the nationalist myths

    Now I really don’t have the energy to debunk anymore posts today, but if you need more recent evidence of union flag burning etc just let me know. At your service


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    #786
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,870 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Just in Directly from the horses mouth. Arlene is not in the orange order.

    I don’t need an apology, a simple retraction will suffice lol.
    It is really interesting when this forum gives space to follow nationalists on some of the demonising of the unionist community their stories start to fall apart.
    Francie made the offer to challenge him on his assertions so I just took his next post and done just that. Every fact he stated has now been debunked bar the paisley membership of OO (which we discovered ended in 1962).
    I feel sad that southerners seem to take northern nationalists spin and exaggerations hook line and sinker.

    But a genuine thank you to the mods on this thread for putting up with all our petty crap to allow us to get to the truth. Some threads close unionists down when the screw is turning on the nationalist myths

    Now I really don’t have the energy to debunk anymore posts today, but if you need more recent evidence of union flag burning etc just let me know. At your service

    :D:D:D Francie cannot be bothered even asking for proof. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it might as well be a duck.


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    #787
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    downcow wrote: »
    Just in Directly from the horses mouth. Arlene is not in the orange order.

    I don’t need an apology, a simple retraction will suffice lol.
    It is really interesting when this forum gives space to follow nationalists on some of the demonising of the unionist community their stories start to fall apart.
    Francie made the offer to challenge him on his assertions so I just took his next post and done just that. Every fact he stated has now been debunked bar the paisley membership of OO (which we discovered ended in 1962).
    I feel sad that southerners seem to take northern nationalists spin and exaggerations hook line and sinker.

    But a genuine thank you to the mods on this thread for putting up with all our petty crap to allow us to get to the truth. Some threads close unionists down when the screw is turning on the nationalist myths

    Now I really don’t have the energy to debunk anymore posts today, but if you need more recent evidence of union flag burning etc just let me know. At your service

    Downcow,You may have to ease up on francie,he's having a bad day today and is probably sitting muttering to himself in a darkened room..


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    #788
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Downcow,You may have to ease up on francie,he's having a bad day today and is probably sitting muttering to himself in a darkened room..


    Yeah definitely trolling at this stage.


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    #789
    Tokyo
    Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Downcow,You may have to ease up on francie,he's having a bad day today and is probably sitting muttering to himself in a darkened room..

    Mod: Quit it with the dickish comments. Next one will earn you a threadban.


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    #790
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,870 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote:
    Yes I see he has now deleted his last post claiming he did not say Arlene was a member of OO Just as I was away searching for his quote. What ever else he’s nifty around these boards and not stupid.
    Here’s his quote
    "The OO's distinct manifesto was to influence the politics of northern Ireland and they did and still are. Not sure about Peter Robinson being a member but Ian Paisley was and Foster is a member"

    Now possibly he meant dr foster who went to Gloucester

    Here is the only proof we have so far:
    In May 2018, she announced she would be leading an Orange Order march in Fife, Scotland. As a committed member of the Order, this was a reason behind the original defection from the UUP ten years ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Foster

    When we get proof to the contrary, I am happy to withdraw the accusation that she is a member, as I did about Ian and the IOO


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    #791
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Here is the only proof we have so far:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Foster

    When we get proof to the contrary, I am happy to withdraw the accusation that she is a member, as I did about Ian and the IOO

    Francie that is ridiculous. It’s not possible to get evidence that something doesn’t exist and well you know it.
    Could you get me evidence that Gerry Adams did not belong to kkk ?

    I thought you would accept my word for it when I tell you that Arlene has stated categorically today that she is not a member of OO. she has confirmed this in direct response to you asserting that she is.

    You gotta be a wee bit more trusting francie


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    #792
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,870 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Francie that is ridiculous. It’s not possible to get evidence that something doesn’t exist and well you know it.
    Could you get me evidence that Gerry Adams did not belong to kkk ?

    I thought you would accept my word for it when I tell you that Arlene has stated categorically today that she is not a member of OO. she has confirmed this in direct response to you asserting that she is.

    You gotta be a wee bit more trusting francie

    She confirmed it 'directly' to me? Where?

    I trust only what I see before me. Anyone can edit their Wikipedia page if there is wrong info about them on it.

    And as I said about Paisley, to all intents and purpose, by speech and action, she embodies the OO and it's beliefs.


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    #793
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    ITs more worrying to me that the unionist community elected an MP to parliament who has made disgusting homophobic remarks and worse about Irish people.
    Sammy Gammon Wilson.

    Imagine electing that to represent your community.
    What does it say about his electorate?


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    #794
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    downcow wrote: »
    We have already noted on many posts that young people on both sides here unfortunately burn the flag of what they see as the aggressor Happens the world over. It is just so sad if you measure a whole community by the actions of a few. Probably says more about you.

    By a few, or by a huge number with the tacit (at least) aproval of the leaders of your community?
    And I know you don’t like comparisons but there is a campaign to put Irish signs where people don’t want them

    You should finish your sentance, it's a campain to put Irish signs where people don’t want them... according to a member of the UUP.

    The reality of course is different, but no surprise there. Conradh na Gaeilge actually published an FAQ document to debunk the flase claims made by opponents of an Irish Language Act. On street signage they had this to say:

    Local council policy currently dictate the rules on erecting bilingual street signs, but each council is different, some have attempted to bring forward policies banning Irish on all signs, and some promote the language through bilingual signage. Bilingual (Irish and English) Street signs should be facilitated where there is demonstrable demand from local residents. This should have a uniform criteria of 50% +1 of respondents to a council survey where people want signs.
    Councils should also take pro-active measures to include indigenous place-names in new developments, if this is applicable.

    https://cnag.ie/images/Acht_Gaeilge_Ceisteanna_Coitianta_FAQ_2019.pdf

    I trust you will stop making this false claim now?


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    #795
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,870 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    By a few, or by a huge number with the tacit (at least) aproval of the leaders of your community?



    You should finish your sentance, it's a campain to put Irish signs where people don’t want them... according to a member of the UUP.

    The reality of course is different, but no surprise there. Conradh na Gaeilge actually published an FAQ document to debunk the flase claims made by opponents of an Irish Language Act. On street signage they had this to say:

    Local council policy currently dictate the rules on erecting bilingual street signs, but each council is different, some have attempted to bring forward policies banning Irish on all signs, and some promote the language through bilingual signage. Bilingual (Irish and English) Street signs should be facilitated where there is demonstrable demand from local residents. This should have a uniform criteria of 50% +1 of respondents to a council survey where people want signs.
    Councils should also take pro-active measures to include indigenous place-names in new developments, if this is applicable.

    https://cnag.ie/images/Acht_Gaeilge_Ceisteanna_Coitianta_FAQ_2019.pdf

    I trust you will stop making this false claim now?

    I never got back up to his claim that Local Irish groups where claiming they would force Irish signs to be put up on the Shankill.

    This from a poster who thinks people in the south and nationalists labour under misconceptions about his community???


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    #796
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    downcow wrote: »
    So the question remains unanswered whether you would call for the banners supporting the hunger strikers be removed.
    Some on here said they didn’t kill civilians. One of them was directly involved in the kings mill massacre, separating a bus load of civilians in to prods and catholic’s and then murdering all the Catholics - and he has a kids play park named after him. But let’s get the para banners down cause they were bad boys.
    Just curious as to how he was directly involved? Being caught with the weapon used doesn’t necessarily mean he carried out the Kingsmill massacre.


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    #797
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    downcow wrote: »
    The paras are looked up to as hero’s because they stood up to terrorism.
    You should look back at what you are saying - it would be like me saying to you that the hunger strikers are looked up to because they slaughtered Protestants. I would have a little more empathy with you than to say that.
    Are they viewed as heroes on the Shankill Road?


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    #798
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    After all is said and done the fact is that the Orange Order have nothing but at best disdain and at worst hatred for anyone who is not Protestant. In fact they have little time for fellow protestants who are not Orangemen and contempt for any Protestant that would marry a Catholic. It's bible thumping nutjobs like them that keep their communities in the dark ages.


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    #799
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    By a few, or by a huge number with the tacit (at least) aproval of the leaders of your community?



    You should finish your sentance, it's a campain to put Irish signs where people don’t want them... according to a member of the UUP.

    The reality of course is different, but no surprise there. Conradh na Gaeilge actually published an FAQ document to debunk the flase claims made by opponents of an Irish Language Act. On street signage they had this to say:

    Local council policy currently dictate the rules on erecting bilingual street signs, but each council is different, some have attempted to bring forward policies banning Irish on all signs, and some promote the language through bilingual signage. Bilingual (Irish and English) Street signs should be facilitated where there is demonstrable demand from local residents. This should have a uniform criteria of 50% +1 of respondents to a council survey where people want signs.
    Councils should also take pro-active measures to include indigenous place-names in new developments, if this is applicable.

    https://cnag.ie/images/Acht_Gaeilge_Ceisteanna_Coitianta_FAQ_2019.pdf

    I trust you will stop making this false claim now?

    I made no false claims. I personal listened to their spokesperson say he would expect Irish signs in the shankill whether people wanted them or not. It shouldn’t be difficult to find the quote.

    What you have included above is totally reasonable if that is their new position. I would have no complaints about.
    It’s just the old problem that you will be able to identify the makeup of the area and hence who feels welcome by the signage


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    #800
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    downcow wrote: »
    I made no false claims. I personal listened to their spokesperson say he would expect Irish signs in the shankill whether people wanted them or not. It shouldn’t be difficult to find the quote.

    What you have included above is totally reasonable if that is their new position. I would have no complaints about.
    It’s just the old problem that you will be able to identify the makeup of the area and hence who feels welcome by the signage

    So road signs in a different language are unacceptable for you.

    But your flags on every pole and kerb are supposed to be ok and sucked up by the other community?


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    #801
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    By a few, or by a huge number with the tacit (at least) aproval of the leaders of your community?



    You should finish your sentance, it's a campain to put Irish signs where people don’t want them... according to a member of the UUP.

    The reality of course is different, but no surprise there. Conradh na Gaeilge actually published an FAQ document to debunk the flase claims made by opponents of an Irish Language Act. On street signage they had this to say:

    Local council policy currently dictate the rules on erecting bilingual street signs, but each council is different, some have attempted to bring forward policies banning Irish on all signs, and some promote the language through bilingual signage. Bilingual (Irish and English) Street signs should be facilitated where there is demonstrable demand from local residents. This should have a uniform criteria of 50% +1 of respondents to a council survey where people want signs.
    Councils should also take pro-active measures to include indigenous place-names in new developments, if this is applicable.

    https://cnag.ie/images/Acht_Gaeilge_Ceisteanna_Coitianta_FAQ_2019.pdf

    I trust you will stop making this false claim now?

    Here we are. Same group saying the opposite. I am pleased if they are realising their initial position would never fly.
    And to be honest my preferred position is that all cultures are welcome everywhere
    https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/unionist-fears-as-irish-groups-spell-out-vision-for-language-1-8375754/amp


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    #802
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    armaghlad wrote: »
    Just curious as to how he was directly involved? Being caught with the weapon used doesn’t necessarily mean he carried out the Kingsmill massacre.

    He was probably just an innocent collector of guns used in sectarian massacres Oh dear


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    #803
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,870 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    I made no false claims. I personal listened to their spokesperson say he would expect Irish signs in the shankill whether people wanted them or not. It shouldn’t be difficult to find the quote.

    It is up to you to back up your claims about statements and phone calls to party leaders.
    What you have included above is totally reasonable if that is their new position. I would have no complaints about.
    It’s just the old problem that you will be able to identify the makeup of the area and hence who feels welcome by the signage

    Signs in Fermanagh & Omagh District Council have had Irish on them for years and the area hasn't exactly become unliveable in or descended in to bitter internecine feuding.

    Unionism needs to get over itself a little bit about language and flags. They'll be dragged into the modern age just like they were over SSM and Abortion rights.


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    #804
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    armaghlad wrote: »
    Just curious as to how he was directly involved? Being caught with the weapon used doesn’t necessarily mean he carried out the Kingsmill massacre.

    I take it you are consistent and apply the same strange rational to the loughinisland massacre and no stone unturned. Those guys are probably innocent as well


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    #805
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,870 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Here we are. Same group saying the opposite. I am pleased if they are realising their initial position would never fly.
    And to be honest my preferred position is that all cultures are welcome everywhere
    https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/unionist-fears-as-irish-groups-spell-out-vision-for-language-1-8375754/amp

    You do understand what a 'rights based' proposal is yeh?


    There will be dual language signs on the Shankill if enough people there demand or want it. Because that would be their 'right' under an act.

    If there isn't enough people demanding/wanting it, it won't happen.

    Typical scaremongering by people who pluck stuff out of context.


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    #806
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Irish language group not only confirming the demand for all road signs in Irish even where they are not wanted, but also agreeing 100% with my marking territory concern. She even compares on putting Irish signs where they are wanted as the same as “painting kerbstones”.
    These are the false claims I am being accused of. Looks like more stuff needs retracted.
    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156188117398383&id=91379563382&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F&_rdr


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    #807
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You do understand what a 'rights based' proposal is yeh?


    There will be dual language signs on the Shankill if enough people there demand or want it. Because that would be their 'right' under an act.

    If there isn't enough people demanding/wanting it, it won't happen.

    Typical scaremongering by people who pluck stuff out of context.

    Have wee listen to my last post and then tell us who is scaremongering


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    #808
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,870 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Extraordinary that Dodds thinks the Union is so fragile that some street signs are in danger of breaking it.


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    #809
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,870 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Have wee listen to my last post and then tell us who is scaremongering

    The one where Nolan puts the word 'impose' in her mouth?


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    #810
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Imagine your whole identity being threatened by a road sign in a different language.

    It’s almost like they think we’re coming to force them to learn Irish and take English and ‘their British identity’ off them

    Can’t imagine why they’d be afraid of that. It’s not like they haven’t done it before themselves. Here.


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    #811
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Imagine your whole identity being threatened by a road sign in a different language.

    It’s almost like they think we’re coming to force them to learn Irish and take English and ‘their British identity’ off them

    Can’t imagine why they’d be afraid of that. It’s not like they haven’t done it before themselves. Here.

    Same fear you seem to have about a wee fleg on a lamppost.


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