The glorious 12th

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Same fear you seem to have about a wee fleg on a lamppost.

Let's ignore all the other bigoted stuff that goes on around the 12th, yeh?

Stop moaning ffs

downcow wrote: »

Same fear you seem to have about a wee fleg on a lamppost.

The other cores aren’t setting up bonfires and threatening violence against you though.

If your identity is so threatened by some letters in a sequence you don’t understand, your identity really isn’t all that secure to begin with

James Brown

downcow wrote: »

Same fear you seem to have about a wee fleg on a lamppost.

We'll always have an Orange Order and the 12th, but as the years and society move on it'll be akin to Morris dancing and the like. An antiquated tradition most don't celebrate or get.

FrancieBrady

When you couple Dodds fears that seeing the Irish language will weaken the Union with Sammy Wilson's attempt to silence anyone talking about Unionists losing a Border Poll because that in itself might actually usher one in, you realise what a perilous state Unionists believe themselves to be in.

Odhinn

downcow wrote: »

Same fear you seem to have about a wee fleg on a lamppost.

For most of the history of the NI statelet the british flag was hung more to remind the "fenians" whose state they were living in rather than any celebration of culture.

downcow

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The other cores aren’t setting up bonfires and threatening violence against you though.

If your identity is so threatened by some letters in a sequence you don’t understand, your identity really isn’t all that secure to begin with

If you identity depends on putting a few letters up in a sequence you no practically nobody can understand then your identity is not too secure.
Any chance of a more adult discussion rather than a game of sectarian tennis.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

all cultures are welcome everywhere

If Republicans decide they want to start marching through a couple of staunchly unionist towns, a couple of times every year, to commemorate the Provisional IRA you'd welcome that? Because that would be a facsimile of a lot of Unionist 'culture'.

Stop moaning ffs

downcow wrote: »

If you identity depends on putting a few letters up in a sequence you no practically nobody can understand then your identity is not too secure.
Any chance of a more adult discussion rather than a game of sectarian tennis.

Ehhh we aren’t the ones objecting to a few road signs.

Sectarian tennis?

You were accusing Mary Lou of murder just a couple of hours ago


You’re a fvkin feast of comedy

Odhinn

downcow wrote: »

If you identity depends on putting a few letters up in a sequence you no practically nobody can understand then your identity is not too secure.
Any chance of a more adult discussion rather than a game of sectarian tennis.

They have dual signage in Wales afaik, so what's the difficulty doing the same in NI?

_blaaz

Odhinn wrote: »

They have dual signage in Wales afaik, so what's the difficulty doing the same in NI?

Look its 0bvious the poster dispises nationlists and irish culture,but for obvious reasons cant say it,beacuse it is hate speech for fear of being banned..

..so jumps through hoops and provides implications in their posts that can only lead to 1 conclusion

downcow

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We'll always have an Orange Order and the 12th, but as the years and society move on it'll be akin to Morris dancing and the like. An antiquated tradition most don't celebrate or get.

Maybe they can go then and get advice of what Irish language speakers done when the culture diminished to tiny numbers participating. Maybe they’ll even understand each other then.

But I take your point that it’s the very popularity and strength of the orange culture that seems to upset many so if it weakens then nationalists will probably show it more respect and understanding

Odhinn

downcow wrote: »

Maybe they can go then and get advice of what Irish language speakers done when the culture diminished to tiny numbers participating. Maybe they’ll even understand each other then.

But I take your point that it’s the very popularity and strength of the orange culture that seems to upset many so if it weakens then nationalists will probably show it more respect and understanding

No, it's decades of having marches through nationalist areas so the croppies remember to lie down . That kind of bullying sectarianism doesn't win fans overall.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Maybe they can go then and get advice of what Irish language speakers done when the culture diminished to tiny numbers participating. Maybe they’ll even understand each other then.

But I take your point that it’s the very popularity and strength of the orange culture that seems to upset many so if it weakens then nationalists will probably show it more respect and understanding

Membership falling from 76,000 to approx 30,000 is not an Order in good or strong shape I would wager.

RobMc59

Odhinn wrote: »

They have dual signage in Wales afaik, so what's the difficulty doing the same in NI?

There are no major political or cultural differences in Wales and Welsh is spoken extensively.

Stop moaning ffs

RobMc59 wrote: »

There are no major political or cultural differences in Wales and Welsh is spoken extensively.

And not oppressed by an English minority living in their midst whilst all attempts at a shared equal society where both cultures and heritage have equal space should be able to flourish without cost to each other

Looks up north.

They’re putting Irish on road signs!!
My identity is threatened!!

Odhinn

RobMc59 wrote: »

There are no major political or cultural differences in Wales and Welsh is spoken extensively.

Why should "cultural differences" mean a signpost can't have two languages on it?

RobMc59

Odhinn wrote: »

Why should "cultural differences" mean a signpost can't have two languages on it?

I would`nt imagine a Union flag would be welcome outside the "bogside inn"in Derry just as the aformentioned signposts may not be welcome in other areas,certainly either should not be compulsory to keep the peace.

Stop moaning ffs

RobMc59 wrote: »

I would`nt imagine a Union flag would be welcome outside the "bogside inn"in Derry just as the aformentioned signposts may not be welcome in other areas,certainly either should not be compulsory to keep the peace.

Make it compulsory.
Every road sign that also features Irish, must have a Union Jack flying above it.


*nobody lost driving will be looking at the Irish or up at the flag. They’ll just want directions and to know where they are


Simples

Odhinn

RobMc59 wrote: »

I would`nt imagine a Union flag would be welcome outside the "bogside inn"in Derry just as the aformentioned signposts may not be welcome in other areas,certainly either should not be compulsory to keep the peace.

There's laws governing flags and symbols that applies to both communities. Essentially you're backing a unionist veto.

RobMc59

Odhinn wrote: »

There's laws governing flags and symbols that applies to both communities. Essentially you're backing a unionist veto.

I`m backing common sense Odhinn.Would people in Unionist areas be likely to speak Irish?

Odhinn

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`m backing common sense Odhinn.Would people in Unionist areas be likely to speak Irish?

Unlikely. Thats why you'd have english on the same sign......

Stop moaning ffs

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`m backing common sense Odhinn.Would people in Unionist areas be likely to speak Irish?

Some of them might speak in Ulster Scots. An accent derived from Scots Gaelic. Which itself derived from Irish Gaelic.

Tangled eh?

RobMc59

Odhinn wrote: »

Unlikely. Thats why you'd have english on the same sign......

Fair point...:)

Odhinn

RobMc59 wrote: »

Fair point...:)

To be clear, what SF are after is bi-lingual signs, not irish only. Parity of esteem and all that.

FrancieBrady

Odhinn wrote: »

Essentially you're backing a unionist veto.

That's essentially what it is. And it's extraordinary the mess the DUP have made of all this by sheer belligerence.
Interesting words which should be a stark warning to Unionists going forward - their denial of rights will no longer fly.

Simon Hoare Chair, Northern Ireland Affairs Committee wrote:

It seems to me that there is an incredibly strong and compelling argument about the universality of human rights for citizens of the United Kingdom and to try to move away from that in some way starts to pick away at some of the fabric of Unionism."

The speaker was earlier told by Sammy Wilson to more or less shut up talking about Unionists losing a border poll, as that kinda talk might precipitate a Border Poll.

endacl

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Some of them might speak in Ulster Scots, best described as ‘a bit of an accent’.

Better.

janfebmar

Odhinn wrote: »

To be clear, what SF are after is bi-lingual signs, .

And who would pay the 7 billion pounds necessary to translate and print all signs / government publications, etc etc in to Irish as well? Its not as if many use Irish. There is an Irish language page here on boards.ie, last time I looked it was only getting a few posts a month. Maybe Irish speakers never use the internet.

Odhinn

janfebmar wrote: »

And who would pay the 7 billion pounds necessary to translate and print all signs / government publications, etc etc in to Irish as well?

Please provide a source that states the sum of 7 billion would be required.

janfebmar

Odhinn wrote: »

Please provide a source that states the sum of 7 billion would be required.

Once you tell me how many signs there are on roads,streets, areas, outside and inside public buildings, hospitals, on vehicles, how many government publications there are, websites etc etc.

Odhinn

janfebmar wrote: »

Once you tell me how many signs there are on roads,streets, areas, outside and inside public buildings, hospitals, on vehicles, how many government publications there are, websites etc etc.

So you made up the 7 billion figure. Quelle Surprise.