Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

marno21 · 13-07-2017 1:10am

A tender has been issued for a feasibility study on a greenway between Collooney and Bellaghy, Co. Sligo on the disused Claremorris-Collooney railway line.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=115687

Corca Baiscinn · 13-07-2017 7:56pm

marno21 wrote: »

A tender has been issued for a feasibility study on a greenway between Collooney and Bellaghy, Co. Sligo on the disused Claremorris-Collooney railway line.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=115687

Yes,but it's the Greenway Co-Op itself which is putting out the tender for the feasibility study in order to use the info as part of a submission to DOTTAS, so a long way to go yet. Result will be interesting, especially in light of M Ring's funding for the Velorail on a later section of the route. Presume this section would need to be considered as pat of the whole WRC though it wouldn't get funded in one go in any event

CatInABox · 14-07-2017 10:50am

Today is the last day to make submissions on the national greenway strategy, to the department of transport. So be heard or be silent. Email your thoughts on the idea to put a greenway on the closed railway from Sligo to Ahenry and create the 125 km Western Rail Trail as part of the national greenway network.

greenways@dttas.ie

Muckyboots · 07-09-2017 12:03pm

Tipperary to Waterford Greenway-
https://www.facebook.com/DavMol/
This new FB page is getting savaged by a well-orchestrated campaign by the rail lobby. All's fair and such, but please give it a "like" to keep some balance and fact based discussion on their posts. Rural greenways are in the ascendancy. Rural railway is declining. Some people are in denial.

spacetweek · 07-09-2017 7:39pm

Read the page there. I would only support this greenway if the railway couldn't be saved.

Middle Man · 07-09-2017 11:28pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

Tipperary to Waterford Greenway-
https://www.facebook.com/DavMol/
This new FB page is getting savaged by a well-orchestrated campaign by the rail lobby. All's fair and such, but please give it a "like" to keep some balance and fact based discussion on their posts. Rural greenways are in the ascendancy. Rural railway is declining. Some people are in denial.

It's time to stop closing down our railways (one's linking our main urban centres in particular) and instead change our planning system so as to utilise our lines better by way of higher densities. Limerick and Waterford could be developed into much larger cities thereby creating much potential demand.

bk · 08-09-2017 10:03am

Middle Man wrote: »

It's time to stop closing down our railways (one's linking our main urban centres in particular) and instead change our planning system so as to utilise our lines better by way of higher densities. Limerick and Waterford could be developed into much larger cities thereby creating much potential demand.

According to a report done by Irish Rail, some of our rural branch lines carry just a couple of dozen people a day (fill maybe a bus or two) and are subsidised to the tune of €700+ per passenger carried!

Hell you could give each of those passengers their own private taxi ride and save significant money!

I'm sorry but that is just insane, such rural branch lines simply don't make economic sense, not with our highly dispersed rural population and with everyone having a car.

For these lines Greenways do make sense. It pritects the alignment in government ownership in case the populations ever do grow large enough and dense enough in future to support and need rail and in the meantime they offer a great amenity to the locals and injection of much needed tourism money.

Bray Head · 10-09-2017 8:21am

bk wrote: »

According to a report done by Irish Rail, some of our rural branch lines carry just a couple of dozen people a day (fill maybe a bus or two) and are subsidised to the tune of €700+ per passenger carried!

Hell you could give each of those passengers their own private taxi ride and save significant money!

I'm sorry but that is just insane, such rural branch lines simply don't make economic sense, not with our highly dispersed rural population and with everyone having a car.

The review was carried out by Irish Rail and the NTA.

It is highly unlikely that Irish Rail would have carried out this kind of analysis and put it in the public domain before the NTA was in existence!

For the rest I agree.

Zubeneschamali · 10-09-2017 8:53am

Bray Head wrote: »

It is highly unlikely that Irish Rail would have carried out this kind of analysis and put it in the public domain before the NTA was in existence!

I disagree. Irish Rail have been in the business of closing Irish railways since they were created. CIE before them since the 1950s. The railways have been closing for 70 years.

Markcheese · 10-09-2017 8:07pm

Zubeneschamali wrote:

I disagree. Irish Rail have been in the business of closing Irish railways since they were created. CIE before them since the 1950s. The railways have been closing for 70 years.

And the canals before that, everything has its day,.. Rural rail has had its..

spacetweek · 11-09-2017 1:42pm

Railways are only useful for moving people between cities and large towns. Anything else may have to close.

ED E · 11-09-2017 1:47pm

Is there any model for creating greenways along active railways? Obviously passing at a station (buried in a town) is a problem but maybe there's a solution Im not thinking of.

riddlinrussell · 11-09-2017 2:56pm

ED E wrote: »

Is there any model for creating greenways along active railways? Obviously passing at a station (buried in a town) is a problem but maybe there's a solution Im not thinking of.

I'd think it would be a non-starter for a few reasons, any government owned, unused railway land is probably reserved for potential line expansion, land alongside the railway will be subject to the same headaches as currently disused lines face for greenway projects with land ownership, and its hard to see too many people wanting to cycle right beside a live railway line, especially if they were using it for tourism. The only area I could see it having potential is for commuter cycling into cities, and thats where the space is already at a premium, so it wouldn't be ideal.

bk · 11-09-2017 3:19pm

ED E wrote: »

Is there any model for creating greenways along active railways? Obviously passing at a station (buried in a town) is a problem but maybe there's a solution Im not thinking of.

It is quiet common in other countries to see greenways right beside the train tracks on very lightly used lines.

Muckyboots · 11-09-2017 5:22pm

ED E wrote: »

Is there any model for creating greenways along active railways? Obviously passing at a station (buried in a town) is a problem but maybe there's a solution Im not thinking of.

Most definitely, yes. Happens in other countries. Usually, the alignment double or triple tracks in towns and in many cases you find well used unofficial trails already there. The railway infrastructure would add value to a greenway and the greenway would protect the railway alignment.

bk · 12-09-2017 2:15pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

Most definitely, yes. Happens in other countries. Usually, the alignment double or triple tracks in towns and in many cases you find well used unofficial trails already there.

I'll never forget walking on a rail track of a closed line while hiking in Norway. Spectacular views, walk through tunnels, though crossing one or two of the bridges was a bit scary, literally rotting and falling apart, like something out of India Jones

McAlban · 12-09-2017 2:16pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

Tipperary to Waterford Greenway-
https://www.facebook.com/DavMol/
This new FB page is getting savaged by a well-orchestrated campaign by the rail lobby. All's fair and such, but please give it a "like" to keep some balance and fact based discussion on their posts. Rural greenways are in the ascendancy. Rural railway is declining. Some people are in denial.

Complete and utter rubbish, it's a Facebook group with 21 Likes. And another WRC Greenway. Lets just rip up another railway between two cities to allow every rural town to have a greenway and attract, whom exactly? The More greenways you build the less revenue share of tourist money.

bk · 12-09-2017 2:53pm

McAlban wrote: »

Complete and utter rubbish, it's a Facebook group with 21 Likes. And another WRC Greenway. Lets just rip up another railway between two cities to allow every rural town to have a greenway and attract, whom exactly? The More greenways you build the less revenue share of tourist money.

The more km's of cycling network you have, the more attractive the country becomes as a cycling destination.

People who go on cycling holidays, like to cycle across entire countries for days, if not weeks on end.

BTW non of this is new, cycling holidays like this are very common on mainland Europe. We are only starting to tap into this massive market.

Norrie Thomas · 12-09-2017 3:21pm

bk wrote: »

The more km's of cycling network you have, the more attractive the country becomes as a cycling destination.

People who go on cycling holidays, like to cycle across entire countries for days, if not weeks on end.

BTW non of this is new, cycling holidays like this are very common on mainland Europe. We are only starting to tap into this massive market.

The big problem in Ireland is that Greenways are being used as a cover to close down railways.

bk · 12-09-2017 3:32pm

Norrie Thomas wrote: »

The big problem in Ireland is that Greenways are being used as a cover to close down railways.

I don't really see that.

The thing is most of these railways are already closed and have been for years and their is little hope of them ever reopening, due to demographics, population densities, etc.

So rather then letting these lines sit their rotting and gradually been built over by peoples gardens, etc. It seems like a better use of them to use them as greenways and keep them in public ownership.

Then in future if the population of Ireland explodes and rail on these routes suddenly makes sense, then the line can be reopened. Perhaps even have the rail line and greenway side by side.

BarryD2 · 12-09-2017 3:39pm

I'm all for Greenways although there are some issues. They need to be open to both cyclists and walkers/ runners/ joggers. There can be a little intolerance shown at times by some users.

I also think each Greenway proposal should be examined carefully for cost/ benefit. They're not all equal in terms of scenery and quality and costs. Following the success of the Great Western Greenway, there does seem to be a tendency to replicate the idea across the country. Which may or may not always work.

Norrie Thomas · 12-09-2017 4:10pm

bk wrote: »

I don't really see that.

The thing is most of these railways are already closed and have been for years and their is little hope of them ever reopening, due to demographics, population densities, etc.

So rather then letting these lines sit their rotting and gradually been built over by peoples gardens, etc. It seems like a better use of them to use them as greenways and keep them in public ownership.

Then in future if the population of Ireland explodes and rail on these routes suddenly makes sense, then the line can be reopened. Perhaps even have the rail line and greenway side by side.

Sounds good in theory but in practice Greenways on old railway lines tend to block development. Fairly close to home the Comber Greenway between Belfast and Newtownards blocked the implementation of a BRT line on that route. Instead of using the old double tracked rail route the BRT is now planned to run on the already congested Newtownards Road. That's what happens when Greenways take over railways.

bk · 12-09-2017 4:15pm

Norrie Thomas wrote: »

Sounds good in theory but in practice Greenways on old railway lines tend to block development. Fairly close to home the Comber Greenway between Belfast and Newtownards blocked the implementation of a BRT line on that route. Instead of using the old double tracked rail route the BRT is now planned to run on the already congested Newtownards Road. That's what happens when Greenways take over railways.

I wouldn't support a greenway on an alignment where there is a serious possibility of services returning like above.

But most of the greenways we are talking about here are going through some of the most rural and least densely populated areas of Europe. So I really don't see these lines having any possibility of reopening.

Norrie Thomas · 12-09-2017 4:35pm

bk wrote: »

I wouldn't support a greenway on an alignment where there is a serious possibility of services returning like above.

But most of the greenways we are talking about here are going through some of the most rural and least densely populated areas of Europe. So I really don't see these lines having any possibility of reopening.

Yes, most. I can think of the Deise Greenway and Valentia as prime examples of good use of a Greenway. But the WRC Greenway proposals are entirely there as a deliberate spoiler for the West on Track campaign to redevelop the West. I can speak with experience having been stalked by those campaigners myself.

Muckyboots · 12-09-2017 5:42pm

Norrie Thomas wrote: »

Yes, most. I can think of the Deise Greenway and Valentia as prime examples of good use of a Greenway. But the WRC Greenway proposals are entirely there as a deliberate spoiler for the West on Track campaign to redevelop the West. I can speak with experience having been stalked by those campaigners myself.

Absolute nonsense. 650 people walked in support of the Greenway campaign in Tuam. 3,000 people signed a petition without any coercion. Most of them don't know who West on Track are, or care less. You can't have a monopoly on ideas, no matter how good you think your own might be.

Muckyboots · 12-09-2017 5:55pm

McAlban wrote: »

Complete and utter rubbish, it's a Facebook group with 21 Likes. And another WRC Greenway. Lets just rip up another railway between two cities to allow every rural town to have a greenway and attract, whom exactly?

It's a new page so the number of likes is irrelevant. There was also a blatant attack by people acting as coordinated trolls after the page was shared on another respectful railway appreciation page. People have, rightfully in my view, accused some greenway campaigners of acting in a less than savoury manner - but this time the railway campaigners let themselves down badly and tried to bully someone just who wanted to share their own views and views formed on local experience, as opposed to many of the railway trolls. Do on to others and all that.

McAlban wrote: »

The More greenways you build the less revenue share of tourist money.

So - No tourists wanted here? You're not a hotelier, I take it.

marno21 · 12-09-2017 8:38pm

Greenways don't have to be exclusively aimed at tourism - they are also a fantastic local amenity allowing locals to cycle and walk on a path with little or no interaction with traffic.

In places like Tuam where the roads with hard shoulders are very busy and have turning traffic or the quiet roads are unlit and narrow, greenways are a fantastic alternative and would benefit far more people than a white elephant "freight train service".

MJohnston · 12-09-2017 9:36pm

I don't understand the idea that a greenway blocks future rail lines or other transport infrastructure - surely a greenway means a suitable route is actually far more likely to be remain secured and free for future use?

McAlban · 13-09-2017 9:57am

Muckyboots wrote: »

It's a new page so the number of likes is irrelevant. There was also a blatant attack by people acting as coordinated trolls after the page was shared on another respectful railway appreciation page. People have, rightfully in my view, accused some greenway campaigners of acting in a less than savoury manner - but this time the railway campaigners let themselves down badly and tried to bully someone just who wanted to share their own views and views formed on local experience, as opposed to many of the railway trolls. Do on to others and all that.
So - No tourists wanted here? You're not a hotelier, I take it.

Ah yes, Throw out the argument that anyone who disagrees with the particular Greenway in question is:

Anti-Greenway
A Pro-Rail Fanatic
Anti-Tourism

This seems to be the SOP for Some Greenway Supporters, but lets face it, mostly from the TUAM/SLIGO area.

I've looked at the page, seems to be un-moderated debate. I don't see any hint of collusion between the people attacking this idea. Just people who think the idea is wrong. And then You are on here encouraging members here to go troll on the Greenways behalf.

I don't know how many times I have to say it! I fully support Greenways, But we have un-finished existing Greenways fully supported by most locals, local councils, local business. We have Greenways with Planning and Zoning stuck in bureaucratic Hell, Greenways being blocked by Land Grabbing Farmers, Lack of Funding etc.

There are plenty of Greenways that need the efforts of Greenway Campaigners to get started or finished, and plenty more razed railways that could benefit from their support. Instead of this Parish Pump s**t.

If this guy wants a Greenway, how about linking up the existing Deise Greenway to Mallow? That Would be Sensible. The Blackwater valley is one of the most picturesque parts of the country.

Muckyboots · 13-09-2017 12:10pm

McAlban wrote: »

I don't know how many times I have to say it! I fully support Greenways, But we have un-finished existing Greenways fully supported by most locals, local councils, local business. We have Greenways with Planning and Zoning stuck in bureaucratic Hell, Greenways being blocked by Land Grabbing Farmers, Lack of Funding etc.

And we have a disused railway line with no realistic prospect of it reopening and a rotting railway infrastructure requiring crowd funding to keep the roofs on stations. Save the WRC- with a Greenway.

Norrie Thomas · 14-09-2017 4:50pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

And we have a disused railway line with no realistic prospect of it reopening and a rotting railway infrastructure requiring crowd funding to keep the roofs on stations. Save the WRC- with a Greenway.

I wish I shared your faith in the concept of a Greenway "saving" lines. They don't save them, unless you can come up with an example where a Greenway led to a running railway somewhere. It's an established fact that Sustrans in the U.K. fight any Greenway to Railway proposals tooth and nail. Sustrans and their supporters blocked the Belfast to Comber line from being reused as a Busway.

MJohnston · 14-09-2017 5:20pm

Norrie Thomas wrote: »

I wish I shared your faith in the concept of a Greenway "saving" lines. They don't save them, unless you can come up with an example where a Greenway led to a running railway somewhere.

They almost definitely save the alignment of the lines. The problem with saying that "Greenways don't lead to running railways" is that generally the railway line became available because the service wasn't viable, and no Greenway is ever going to be able to solve that problem - I mean it's also pretty rare for former railways to be successfully resurrected.

Muckyboots · 16-09-2017 10:17am

Local greenway advocate and Minister Ciaran Cannon are cycling from Enniskillen to Tuam today, parallel to the disused railway, to highlight the benefits a Greenway linking all the towns and villages would bring to the region.

18-09-2017 6:00pm

From another thread

Muckyboots wrote: »

http://fermanaghherald.com/2017/09/cycle-trail-link-fermanagh-galway/ "The ambitious new Greenway could join the fields of Athenry with the Lakelands of Fermanagh".... "and could link with the planned Ulster Canal Greenway, which will link Clones and Enniskillen".

18-09-2017 6:04pm

Just want to add, Greenways, while being a great tourist amenity, the facilities themselves are hugely popular with locals.

I love cycling, I've driven up to Westport and cycled on the one up there. Fantastic local amenity!

I'm counting the days until there's one open in Galway

Little Mc · 19-09-2017 10:40am

Norrie Thomas wrote: »

I wish I shared your faith in the concept of a Greenway "saving" lines. They don't save them, unless you can come up with an example where a Greenway led to a running railway somewhere. It's an established fact that Sustrans in the U.K. fight any Greenway to Railway proposals tooth and nail. Sustrans and their supporters blocked the Belfast to Comber line from being reused as a Busway.

Is a busway a railway? Hint - it isn't.

Banjoxed · 20-09-2017 10:53pm

Little Mc wrote: »

Is a busway a railway? Hint - it isn't.

it would have been grade separated. Now it won't and will have to play dodge the traffic. Clearly an inferior outcome.

Zubeneschamali · 21-09-2017 10:04am

Banjoxed wrote: »

it would have been grade separated. Now it won't and will have to play dodge the traffic. Clearly an inferior outcome.

For the buses and passengers, yes. Not for the Greenway users.

marno21 · 21-09-2017 8:29pm

Feasibility study tender gone out for Waterford-Rosslare greenway.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=118779

Subzero3 · 21-09-2017 10:52pm

Is there any greenways planned for the limerick area? Would love to strap on one of those child trailers to the bike and get a good hours cycle (safely).

marno21 · 22-09-2017 12:12am

Subzero3 wrote: »

Is there any greenways planned for the limerick area? Would love to strap on one of those child trailers to the bike and get a good hours cycle (safely).

There already is one out in the county from Rathkeale to the Kerry border.

We may be seeing one from Limerick to Ballybrophy soon

Subzero3 · 22-09-2017 2:13am

marno21 wrote: »

There already is one out in the county from Rathkeale to the Kerry border.

We may be seeing one from Limerick to Ballybrophy soon

There is a train line going from the city to foynes (unused). That would be ideal.

marno21 · 22-09-2017 7:22am

Subzero3 wrote: »

There is a train line going from the city to foynes (unused). That would be ideal.

The current county greenway starts at where the old North Kerry line used to split from the Foynes line.

There's talks of reactivating the Foynes line so that rules it out for now

Carawaystick · 25-09-2017 9:05pm

marno21 wrote: »

There's talks of reactivating the Foynes line so that rules it out for now

Yeah, after the motorway is built, there'll be huge demand for the railway...:rolleyes:

AsianDub · 16-10-2017 10:22pm

Does anyone know has Phase 3 of the Royal Canal Greenway between North Strand Road and the Phibsborough Road begun yet? It was expected to begin in September 2017 followed by Phase 2 Sheriff Street Upper and the North Strand Road in November 2017?

EndaHonesty · 16-10-2017 10:25pm

Subzero3 wrote: »

Is there any greenways planned for the limerick area? Would love to strap on one of those child trailers to the bike and get a good hours cycle (safely).

The first greenway is in Limerick.

The Great Southern Trail from Rathkeale to Abbeyfeale...

trellheim · 24-10-2017 8:15pm

Does anyone know has Phase 3 of the Royal Canal Greenway between North Strand Road and the Phibsborough Road begun yet? It was expected to begin in September 2017 followed by Phase 2 Sheriff Street Upper and the North Strand Road in November 2017?

if you have a search for the fine gael newsletter for dublin central there was an update on this recently.

spacetweek · 24-10-2017 11:11pm

Can you let us know what it said?

marno21 · 24-10-2017 11:45pm

Signage up on the N21 now at the turn offs for Rathkeale and Newcastlewest highlighting the Greenway.

nuac · 24-10-2017 11:55pm

Norrie Thomas wrote: »

The big problem in Ireland is that Greenways are being used as a cover to close down railways.

Not all. E.G. Westport-Achill line closed c 1937.

First stage of Greenway opened 2010

Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

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