Ireland u20 6 nations and world championship 2021

bayern · 08-01-2021 3:25pm

Draven Ashy Sealskin wrote: »

I'm genuinely asking not pointing fingers at them but didn't jager sign for sarries and the irfu said you can't go to the u20 world cup unless you sign a provincial contract now

you are thinking of tadgh mcelroy..

But yeah Kelly turned down Connacht for Leicester while McElroy turned down Connacht for Saracens.

Only difference is Kelly is an exile, not sure if that will affect what happens. Right now i'd be surprised if the u20 6 nations went ahead next month.

Dubinusa · 08-01-2021 6:49pm

bayern wrote: »

you are thinking of tadgh mcelroy..

But yeah Kelly turned down Connacht for Leicester while McElroy turned down Connacht for Saracens.

Only difference is Kelly is an exile, not sure if that will affect what happens. Right now i'd be surprised if the u20 6 nations went ahead next month.

I think McElroy went elsewhere. I don't think he made progress with Sarries.

bayern · 08-01-2021 7:07pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think McElroy went elsewhere. I don't think he made progress with Sarries.

He is back playing AIL.

bayern · 09-01-2021 6:37pm

Shane Connoly(Roscrea/Leinster) another tighthead involved in camp pre-xmas.

realhorrorshow · 09-01-2021 7:32pm

bayern wrote: »

Shane Connoly(Roscrea/Leinster) another tighthead involved in camp pre-xmas.

Is that the Shane Connolly who played underage with Galwegians?

bayern · 09-01-2021 7:34pm

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Is that the Shane Connolly who played underage with Galwegians?

Yep then went to Roscrea and has played for Leinster underage. Similar path to Oisin Heffernan.

realhorrorshow · 09-01-2021 9:13pm

bayern wrote: »

Yep then went to Roscrea and has played for Leinster underage. Similar path to Oisin Heffernan.

Galwegians > Roscrea is a well trodden path alright.

The Lost Sheep · 10-01-2021 7:49pm

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Galwegians > Roscrea is a well trodden path alright.

Especially following Garbally closing boarding. Sligo Grammar is boarding but a COI school.
None of the rugby schools down southern half of province boarding.

If they were to call off the tournament in how its normally played. Would be good if they could look to play it in one location and play 4/5 games like the junior world championship at some stage of the season.

bayern · 10-01-2021 7:51pm

Likely postponement to the summer apparently.

Hands Like Flippers · 10-01-2021 9:23pm

bayern wrote: »

Likely postponement to the summer apparently.

Heard anything about the u18/19 Irish sides and fixtures?

Thanks.

bayern · 10-01-2021 9:25pm

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Heard anything about the u18/19 Irish sides and fixtures?

Thanks.

No, I wouldn't expect there will be any though. Maybe a few camps later in the season.

Lost Ormond · 11-01-2021 7:02pm

Kieran Campbell has succeeded Noel McNamara as head coach to the Ireland under-20 team. The 41-year-old former Ireland scrumhalf will discharge the new role in conjunction with his position as Ulster Academy manager with responsibility for the elite player development pathway in the province. Denis Leamy joins the backroom team as defence coach.

McNamara will return to his position as Leinster rugby academy manager following a hugely successful stint in charge of the Irish 20s over the past three seasons, not just in terms of results but the manner in which his teams played - a bold, expansive style with players encouraged to take ownership on the pitch

If 6 Nations is in summer would be good if they got more than just the 6 nations involved. If Southern Hemisphere cant be involved. Have more of the european sides like Georgia, Romania involved

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/kieran-campbell-is-the-new-ireland-under-20s-head-coach-1.4455583

bayern · 12-01-2021 4:26pm

Extended squad has been selected, may be announced when they officially announce Campbell as coach, wait and see.

bayern · 12-01-2021 10:21pm

The Women’s Six Nations and Under-20s competitions, which are traditionally run in tandem with the men’s, are set to be postponed until April and May, with official confirmation of their delay expected on Wednesday.

Lost Ormond · 13-01-2021 3:05pm

Championship is postponed and timings and format will be confirmed by the end of January
https://www.irishrugby.ie/2021/01/13/womens-and-under-20-six-nations-championships-postponed/

cgq300 · 13-01-2021 7:31pm

It's the right call but Hopefully they do reschedule them. I can't help but feel sorry for this bunch of lads. They already missed out on the Ireland under 19s and to possibly miss out now on the 20s too is a lot. Be worried some of them would fall by the wayside. Also the only chance a lot of them will get to represent their country. The under 20s World Championship is cancelled also. And most will be over 20 for next season. Hopefully they come up with something for this group.

Lost Ormond · 13-01-2021 7:48pm

cgq300 wrote: »

It's the right call but Hopefully they do reschedule them. I can't help but feel sorry for this bunch of lads. They already missed out on the Ireland under 19s and to possibly miss out now on the 20s too is a lot. Be worried some of them would fall by the wayside. Also the only chance a lot of them will get to represent their country. The under 20s World Championship is cancelled also. And most will be over 20 for next season. Hopefully they come up with something for this group.

Hard to find something for them to play but would be good if the unions brought back some of the other irish teams that used to play especially on 6 nations weekends and that could allow some of these international rugby
The 5/6 nations weekends used to see every weekend more than 6/7 internationals at various grades. Now its really only 3 with the occasional club international.

backcamslua · 14-01-2021 10:32pm

theVersatile wrote: »

I'd say for the pack, something along the lines of:

Donnelly Stewart ANOther
Mccarthy Murray
Soroka Hickey Kendellan

I wouldn't be able to comment on tight heads. I think Kendellan came on at 7 in the dodgily streamed A game but I'd have to double check I know he's played most of his rugby up to eight.

Would probably wait for training 35 names to be released -in time- there are minimum 2 names that will not feature -Have heard recently that A.N. Other declared for Wales! A good guide would be U18 Schools/Clubs sides 2017/2018 & U20 WC 2018 according to some sources!

Hands Like Flippers · 14-01-2021 11:53pm

backcamslua wrote: »

Would probably wait for training 35 names to be released -in time- there are minimum 2 names that will not feature -Have heard recently that A.N. Other declared for Wales! A good guide would be U18 Schools/Clubs sides 2017/2018 & U20 WC 2018 according to some sources!

Thanks but can't quite follow.

How can both u18 and u20 sides from same year be a guide?

cgq300 · 14-01-2021 11:59pm

backcamslua wrote: »

Would probably wait for training 35 names to be released -in time- there are minimum 2 names that will not feature -Have heard recently that A.N. Other declared for Wales! A good guide would be U18 Schools/Clubs sides 2017/2018 & U20 WC 2018 according to some sources!

That doesn't make much sense. I don't know of any prop eligible for under 20s that's declared for Wales. And also under 20s from 3 years ago has no bearing on the team this year. Also under 18 from 2018 wouldnt be eligible for this year either?

theVersatile · 15-01-2021 12:08am

What a baffling comment - although I do agree that speculation on starting teams should probably be best left until some form of squad is announced. You may find issues regarding training bubbles or travelling could lead to some interesting selections

Lost Ormond · 16-01-2021 10:05pm

French team are in training camp in Portugal right now so a french 20s development side played Italys 20s today and french side won by a point with a last minute drop goal
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2021/01/16/retiere-stars-as-france-under-20s-development-team-win-a-thriller/

bayern · 16-01-2021 11:24pm

1. Boyle
2. Stewart
3. Egan
4. Soroka
5. McCarthy
6. Sheridan
7. McCormack
8. Kendellan

Lucas44 · 17-01-2021 1:51am

bayern wrote: »

1. Boyle
2. Stewart
3. Egan
4. Soroka
5. McCarthy
6. Sheridan
7. McCormack
8. Kendellan

Don’t know much about Egan but soroka- 6 & darragh Murray in for Sheridan would be my only changes

alanb92 · 17-01-2021 1:51am

bayern wrote: »

1. Boyle
2. Stewart
3. Egan
4. Soroka
5. McCarthy
6. Sheridan
7. McCormack
8. Kendellan

Sheridan played very well for Ulster in the A match on Friday. He hadn’t been one that was on my radar to start. Thought Jamie Osborne did well for Leinster, Cosgrave had a decent cameo too. I’d imagine someone with Cosgrave’s level of natural talent will kick on a lot now that he’s in with Leinster full time (and his quantity / quality of coaching has increased). The same happened Carbery, who made massive strides in the 2-3 years after leaving school.

bilston · 17-01-2021 11:49am

Is Hyde still U20 this year?

Garda Kenny · 17-01-2021 11:55am

alanb92 wrote: »

Sheridan played very well for Ulster in the A match on Friday. He hadn’t been one that was on my radar to start. Thought Jamie Osborne did well for Leinster, Cosgrave had a decent cameo too. I’d imagine someone with Cosgrave’s level of natural talent will kick on a lot now that he’s in with Leinster full time (and his quantity / quality of coaching has increased). The same happened Carbery, who made massive strides in the 2-3 years after leaving school.

My fear about Cosgrove is that he’s neither very big nor very fast. What are his stats like against his peers? I doubt he has one very outstanding aspect to his personal stats. That can be compensated for with willpower and aggression in players but he looks timid out on the park and from what I’ve seen of him doesn’t get stuck into tackles and the physical aspect of play.

His positives are that he’s a good passer and kicker and is good at fixing and drawing men in attack but then his decision making in defence leaves a lot to be desired. Can his positives outweigh the fact that he will be very undeveloped physically as a pro player? I have my doubts.

The problem with judging players on the schools game is that if the player excels in one age group it doesn’t necessarily mean he will be cut out for pro rugby. The age group might not be very strong across the board and the best from one year might not even get into the SCT of the year above or below him were he born in a different year. To judge against peers is a fools errand you must put him up against professional players in other countries. I don’t fancy cosgrave coming up against a Tuilagi Raka or someone of similar size.

Then there’s the question of where he fits in? Is he a centre? I doubt he’ll ever be big or aggressive enough to be a pro centre. Fullback he isn’t commanding enough under high balls in my view. He might get a stint on the wing but I doubt he’s fast enough for that at pro level either.

I’m shocked at the amount of hype he has come with judging by his level of athleticism. He doesn’t have any standout attributes athletically that set him apart like great players have. I saw several equal if not better players from Newbridge in the Cup last year and several more from the back line in the Belvo semi the year he won the Cup. There’s protectionism and then there’s realism. You can protect a player but you have to back that up with a raw assessment of how they are likely to fare in the pro game.

I hope he proves me wrong.

bayern · 17-01-2021 12:07pm

bilston wrote: »

Is Hyde still U20 this year?

No

Locke_Lamora · 17-01-2021 12:58pm

Garda Kenny wrote: »

My fear about Cosgrove is that he’s neither very big nor very fast. What are his stats like against his peers? I doubt he has one very outstanding aspect to his personal stats. That can be compensated for with willpower and aggression in players but he looks timid out on the park and from what I’ve seen of him doesn’t get stuck into tackles and the physical aspect of play.

His positives are that he’s a good passer and kicker and is good at fixing and drawing men in attack but then his decision making in defence leaves a lot to be desired. Can his positives outweigh the fact that he will be very undeveloped physically as a pro player? I have my doubts.

The problem with judging players on the schools game is that if the player excels in one age group it doesn’t necessarily mean he will be cut out for pro rugby. The age group might not be very strong across the board and the best from one year might not even get into the SCT of the year above or below him were he born in a different year. To judge against peers is a fools errand you must put him up against professional players in other countries. I don’t fancy cosgrave coming up against a Tuilagi Raka or someone of similar size.

Then there’s the question of where he fits in? Is he a centre? I doubt he’ll ever be big or aggressive enough to be a pro centre. Fullback he isn’t commanding enough under high balls in my view. He might get a stint on the wing but I doubt he’s fast enough for that at pro level either.

I’m shocked at the amount of hype he has come with judging by his level of athleticism. He doesn’t have any standout attributes athletically that set him apart like great players have. I saw several equal if not better players from Newbridge in the Cup last year and several more from the back line in the Belvo semi the year he won the Cup. There’s protectionism and then there’s realism. You can protect a player but you have to back that up with a raw assessment of how they are likely to fare in the pro game.

I hope he proves me wrong.

Ireland don't generally produce quick players relative to other countries, and Cosgrave looks quicker than most we bring though to me. Looked okay under the high ball to me as well, not his best attribute but certainly not a weakness. Larmour has never been great at the back (tackling or competing in the air) but is capped, Stockdale too and Lowry at provincial level. Excellent boot which is a positive for a fullback.

The hype around him certainly won't help I'd agree with that. Pretty thin and defence isn't great. Can be standoff-ish in attack when he'd be better making a quick run and taking contact, but that can hopefully be coached easily enough. I think he'll maybe take a little time coming through after gaining experience and developing physically (like Keenan), but I think he's a good prospect. Like what I've seen of Osbourne more.

UAEguy2020 · 17-01-2021 1:06pm

What part of size isn’t the biggest factor in deciding a players future do people not get...

17-01-2021 1:14pm

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

What part of size isn’t the biggest factor in deciding a players future do people not get...

That's a fairly massive simplification of the comment to be fair

UAEguy2020 · 17-01-2021 1:27pm

Draven Ashy Sealskin wrote: »

That's a fairly massive simplification of the comment to be fair

Irish players are getting put on their ass because they are soft, nothing to do with them not being huge, not that hard to understand. If Cosgrave is made of nails he will make it with his talent.

17-01-2021 1:31pm

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Irish players are getting put on their ass because they are soft, nothing to do with them not being huge, not that hard to understand. If Cosgrave is made of nails he will make it with his talent.

Not the point. he mentioned general athleticism but as part of that he mentioned size at one point. You grabbed into that as if it's all he said and tried to paint the comment as foolish.

Garda Kenny · 17-01-2021 1:38pm

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Irish players are getting put on their ass because they are soft, nothing to do with them not being huge, not that hard to understand. If Cosgrave is made of nails he will make it with his talent.

He will certainly have to toughen up if he is to make it at Leinster. He’s nowhere near physical enough yet. And that’s what I’m questioning his ability to become an aggressive physical player

bayern · 17-01-2021 2:37pm

Don't think anyone's claimed cosgrave is the 2nd coming of Luke Fitzgerald, who was ready for pro rugby straight from school.

He has to develop physically like most players who join the academy and has areas in his game he can improve like all players.

UAEguy2020 · 17-01-2021 2:55pm

If we are talking about Cosgrave being a ready made pro at 19/20 then yes he is behind, if we are talking about him being a ready made pro in the next few years he’s got time.

realhorrorshow · 17-01-2021 4:49pm

With his natural talent and kicking game he could have been a candidate to play scrum half but the ship has sailed on that I guess.

bayern · 17-01-2021 4:54pm

realhorrorshow wrote: »

With his natural talent and kicking game he could have been a candidate to play scrum half but the ship has sailed on that I guess.

Interesting idea. But yeah that ship sailed along time ago.

Purist98 · 17-01-2021 8:09pm

bayern wrote: »

1. Boyle
2. Stewart
3. Egan
4. Soroka
5. McCarthy
6. Sheridan
7. McCormack
8. Kendellan

Will Hickey?

bayern · 17-01-2021 8:28pm

Purist98 wrote: »

Will Hickey?

not sure he will be pushing for a starting place.

Purist98 · 17-01-2021 8:39pm

bayern wrote: »

not sure he will be pushing for a starting place.

Think he'll certainly be in the 23 as he can play 6,7 and 8.
Daniel Okeke in contention?
Also what would be your backline prediction?

bayern · 17-01-2021 9:18pm

I wouldn't be so certain Hickey will make 23, will have to wait and see.

stellenbosch · 18-01-2021 9:59am

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

If we are talking about Cosgrave being a ready made pro at 19/20 then yes he is behind, if we are talking about him being a ready made pro in the next few years he’s got time.

Interesting comments-when he came on he looked very tentative with ball in hand and actually dropped the ball twice while carrying

UAEguy2020 · 18-01-2021 10:50am

stellenbosch wrote: »

Interesting comments-when he came on he looked very tentative with ball in hand and actually dropped the ball twice while carrying

Which can happen as he is only 19 and human, the more game time he gets the better he will handle his nerves, he’s got time. At the same time I also thought he looked pretty dangerous when he didn’t drop the ball and looked one of the few backs that might make something happen (granted that wouldn’t be difficult considering Osborne and to an extent O’Reilly were the only backs that looked threatening).

bayern · 18-01-2021 3:14pm

Possible irish u20 backline

9. Doak
10. Corkery
11. Rankin
12. Carson
13. Kiely
14. Moxham
15. Osborne

Or

9. Murphy
10. Whooley
11. Leahy
12. Flannery
13. Jennings
14. McGettrick
15. Cosgrave

realhorrorshow · 18-01-2021 3:31pm

bayern wrote: »

Possible irish u20 backline

9. Doak
10. Corkery
11. Rankin
12. Carson
13. Kiely
14. Moxham
15. Osborne

Or

9. Murphy
10. Whooley
11. Leahy
12. Flannery
13. Jennings
14. McGettrick
15. Cosgrave

From a Connacht point of view I'll be disappointed if Shane Jennings doesn't start, given that he has spent 1.5 seasons as a full academy player and is our most naturally talented back since Robbie Henshaw.

You reckon Karl Martin won't be in contention?

Dubinusa · 18-01-2021 4:14pm

Moxham looks like the business. He looks physically ready could be a top level talent.

bayern · 18-01-2021 4:25pm

realhorrorshow wrote: »

From a Connacht point of view I'll be disappointed if Shane Jennings doesn't start, given that he has spent 1.5 seasons as a full academy player and is our most naturally talented back since Robbie Henshaw.

You reckon Karl Martin won't be in contention?

Martin's played very little to any rugby.

But who knows, these are wild guesses.

GURU NR 1 · 18-01-2021 4:29pm

bayern wrote: »

1. Boyle
2. Stewart
3. Egan
4. Soroka
5. McCarthy
6. Sheridan
7. McCormack
8. Kendellan

If anyone had seen last years u19 Interpros, Leinster's front row of Sam Illo and Hugo O'Malley were clearly the dominant props, expect both to feature

bayern · 18-01-2021 4:36pm

GURU NR 1 wrote: »

If anyone had seen last years u19 Interpros, Leinster's front row of Sam Illo and Hugo O'Malley were clearly the dominant props, expect both to feature

Illo was in recent ireland u20 camp, no sign of O'Malley though.

Ireland u20 6 nations and world championship 2021

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