Do you believe in UFOs & flying saucers ?

steddyeddy · 18-02-2021 12:08pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I don’t think anyone has any issue with people seeing “unexplained” things in the sky. Any object you see flying in the sky is an unidentified flying object, to the uninformed witness. Just as no one is making the claim that there is no intelligent life somewhere in the universe.

The issues arise when people claim, seemingly with absolute certainty, that these “sightings” are hard proof that alien replicons from beyond the moon are zip zapping across our skies, in their hip little space cruisers, like the Neutrinos from the ‘Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles’. Although they were inter-dimensional beings not space aliens visiting from Aldebaran b.

A lot of Fortean “enthusiasts” will latch on to any video that purports to show something inexplicable and instantly claim it’s, obviously, aliens. Anyone remember the ‘Rods’ phenomenon that was around a good few years back? People were catching these ‘sky fish’ on camera, moving at great speed, and in a range of sizes.

Of course, after various claims that these were an “undiscovered” species, most certainly alien in origin, but it transpired that they were nothing more than moths, and other flying creatures, filmed at a certain speed.

The thread topic is ‘Do You Believe in UFO/Flying Saucers?’, I believe there are unexplained things being seen in the skies but I don’t, for one second, believe there are little green men piloting these objects. And I, also, don’t believe anyone should be scoffed at, scoffed at no less, for holding this grounded, and rational, “belief”.

If others want to believe in all that Von Däniken stuff that’s their “business” but I’m not sure, with all the modern understanding of the size, and scale, of the universe that anyone could claim, with a straight face, that it has any basis, or merit, in actual science.

Indeed seeing something unexplained and thinking aliens goes against the scientific method.

However, some sceptics seem to be having problems with anyone investigating the mystery of what these sightings and recordings may be. They seem to prefer that we assign an explanation and consider it a non-mystery without any investigation. That's a problem.

steddyeddy · 18-02-2021 12:16pm

COVID wrote: »

You might be overthinking it a bit with 'wormholed'; sometimes the obvious explanation is the best one - Occam's Razor - so they probably got here in the quaint, old-fashioned, almost analogue way, by dint of a transporter, or even a simple flux capacitor.

COVID wrote: »

That's a toughie, but I'll go for Warp factor 6, which is approximately (according to the 'Star Trek Warp Speed Chart') 423 billion kilometres per hour.
You really would have to 'brace yourself' at that speed!

COVID wrote: »

Not only did he see one, but he claims it spoke to him too, sounds plausible enough:

“Knighton: Aliens Spoke To Me”.
As they set off from their Yorkshire home one afternoon in 1976, he and his wife had watched an apparently alien craft perform a range of “impossible” aero-gymnastics. As the glowing UFO disappeared, he believed he had received a telepathic message urging him: “Don’t be afraid, Michael.”

https://www.sportsjournalists.co.uk/view-from-the-pressbox/the-day-knighton-got-carlisle-in-the-space-race/

Based on these posts I may be awarding too much capability here but I'll present a peer reviewed study on the topic of the aerodynamics of these unexplained aerial objects.

The paper details sighting from only trained observers and uses a data from a multitude of data retrieval technologies such as radar and infra-red imaging to estimate acceleration and speed of these objects. The archetypal encounter used for the data analysis was the USS Nimitz encounter as witnessed by 6 pilots, radar operators and weapons operator specialists.

Worth a read.

We consider a handful of case studies of encounters with UAVs. These encounters were selected from a subset of cases for which there were multiple professional witnesses observing the UAV in multiple modalities (including sight, radar, infrared imaging, etc.). This subset was selected based on the fact that there was sufficient information to estimate kinematic quantities such as speeds and accelerations. Due to the professional standing and expertise of the witnesses, and the fact of both qualitative and quantitative agreement among a significant number of witnesses employing different imaging modalities, it is assumed that the relevant details of the events were not fabricated or embellished. Of course, in most situations, one cannot rule out such possibilities. However, it is unlikely that this would occur with multiple independent witnesses. Assuming that any one of the cases we examine is based on accurate reports, we show that the UAVs exhibit unreasonably high accelerations ranging from 100g to well over 5000g.
To properly estimate lower bounds on the observed accelerations of the UAVs, we assign uncertainties to the observations. Unfortunately, such uncertainties are difficult to assign. We assign rather liberal uncertainties modeled by a Gaussian distribution. In some cases, to provide an even more conservative estimate, we integrate (marginalize) over all possible values of σ.

COVID · 18-02-2021 12:21pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Based on these posts I may be awarding too much capability here but I'll present a peer reviewed study on the topic of the aerodynamics of these unexplained aerial objects.

The paper details sighting from only trained observers and uses a data from a multitude of data retrieval technologies such as radar and infra-red imaging to estimate acceleration and speed of these objects. The archetypal encounter used for the data analysis was the USS Nimitz encounter as witnessed by 6 pilots, radar operators and weapons operator specialists.

Worth a read.

Fair enough, I'll get my coat.

steddyeddy · 18-02-2021 12:22pm

COVID wrote: »

Fair enough, I'll get my coat.

What but did you not understand?

EmmetSpiceland · 18-02-2021 12:24pm

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

I believe in di-lithium crystals ok, scottie says there great....

Without inertial dampeners you’re not going anywhere.

COVID · 18-02-2021 12:28pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

What but did you not understand?

The what but bit.

COVID · 18-02-2021 12:38pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Without inertial dampeners you’re not going anywhere.

You're right, of course.

Inertial Dampeners, or compensators, are essential for anything over 1000gs

maccored · 18-02-2021 2:03pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I don’t think anyone has any issue with people seeing “unexplained” things in the sky. Any object you see flying in the sky is an unidentified flying object, to the uninformed witness. Just as no one is making the claim that there is no intelligent life somewhere in the universe.

The issues arise when people claim, seemingly with absolute certainty, that these “sightings” are hard proof that alien replicons from beyond the moon are zip zapping across our skies, in their hip little space cruisers, like the Neutrinos from the ‘Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles’. Although they were inter-dimensional beings not space aliens visiting from Aldebaran b.

A lot of Fortean “enthusiasts” will latch on to any video that purports to show something inexplicable and instantly claim it’s, obviously, aliens. Anyone remember the ‘Rods’ phenomenon that was around a good few years back? People were catching these ‘sky fish’ on camera, moving at great speed, and in a range of sizes.

Of course, after various claims that these were an “undiscovered” species, most certainly alien in origin, but it transpired that they were nothing more than moths, and other flying creatures, filmed at a certain speed.

The thread topic is ‘Do You Believe in UFO/Flying Saucers?’, I believe there are unexplained things being seen in the skies but I don’t, for one second, believe there are little green men piloting these objects. And I, also, don’t believe anyone should be scoffed at, scoffed at no less, for holding this grounded, and rational, “belief”.

If others want to believe in all that Von Däniken stuff that’s their “business” but I’m not sure, with all the modern understanding of the size, and scale, of the universe that anyone could claim, with a straight face, that it has any basis, or merit, in actual science.

this wasnt in the sky - it was about 5 foot off the ground (it'd be hard to think it was a flashlight if it was in the sky)

auspicious · 18-02-2021 2:31pm

COVID wrote: »

You're right, of course.

Inertial Dampeners, or compensators, are essential for anything over 1000gs

Sucking on a Werthers original stops the worst effects of.....oh wait no.

fryup · 18-02-2021 6:37pm

fryup wrote: »

warp speed?

COVID wrote: »

That's a toughie, but I'll go for Warp factor 6, which is approximately (according to the 'Star Trek Warp Speed Chart') 423 billion kilometres per hour.
You really would have to 'brace yourself' at that speed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAWL8ejf2nM

steddyeddy · 18-02-2021 6:43pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Without inertial dampeners you’re not going anywhere.

Humans have been using inertial dampeners for thousands of years. I'm sure we'd think of something if we developed capabilities to accelerate that fast.

steddyeddy · 18-02-2021 6:43pm

fryup wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAWL8ejf2nM

Video not available dude.

EmmetSpiceland · 18-02-2021 6:46pm

maccored wrote: »

this wasnt in the sky - it was about 5 foot off the ground (it'd be hard to think it was a flashlight if it was in the sky)

Apologies, my point was that I don’t doubt that you saw something. Just that I would put money on a large number of other, potential, “explanations” before I’d be considering aliens from an extrasolar planet.

steddyeddy · 18-02-2021 6:48pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Apologies, my point was that I don’t doubt that you saw something. Just that I would put money on a large number of other, potential, “explanations” before I’d be considering aliens from an extrasolar planet.

Out of interest what potential explanations are there for the USS Nimitz encounter?

maccored · 18-02-2021 9:11pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Apologies, my point was that I don’t doubt that you saw something. Just that I would put money on a large number of other, potential, “explanations” before I’d be considering aliens from an extrasolar planet.

i would say the same if it wasnt right there in front of me at the time. we dont know whats miles up in the sky - but I do know what shouldn't be at head height a few feet away. namely floating balls of light that join up and then shoot off up to the sky

Sakana · 18-02-2021 9:14pm

I know people who think nothing of believing in ghosts, but aliens are a step too far.

bangkok · 18-02-2021 10:14pm

Imagine there was primitive life on Mars and they seen us just landing there a few mins ago... we would be the aliens landing a UFO....

silliussoddius · 18-02-2021 11:01pm

steddyeddy · 19-02-2021 11:38am

John Brennan, the former head of the CIA weighted in on the recently released Pentagon UFO videos.

The former head of the Central Intelligence Agency said recently it’s “presumptuous and arrogant” to believe that there are no other forms of life than the ones on Earth.

“I think some of the phenomena we’re going to be seeing continues to be unexplained and might, in fact, be some type of phenomenon that is the result of something that we don’t yet understand and that could involve some type of activity that some might say constitutes a different form of life,” ex-CIA Director John Brennan said on the podcast “Conversations with Tyler.”

“It’s a bit presumptuous and arrogant for us to believe that there’s no other form of life anywhere in the entire universe,” Brennan added, according to the transcript of the Dec. 16 podcast.

In April, the Department of Defense released a statement confirming three unclassified Navy videos from 2004 and 2015, each showing “unidentified aerial phenomena.”

Brennan commented on the videos, calling them “quite eyebrow-raising.”

“You try to ensure that you have as much data as possible in terms of visuals and also different types of maybe technical collection of sensors that you have at the time,” he added.

“I think an important thing for analysts to do is not to go into this type of challenge either discounting certain types of possibilities or believing in advance that it is likely X, Y, or Z. You really have to approach it with an open mind, but get as much data as possible and get as much expertise as possible brought to bear.”

COVID · 19-02-2021 1:11pm

Andrew Abeyta, assistant professor of psychology at North Dakota State University.

“Religion is a really robust source of meaning in life. It gives us a sense of purpose. We feel important. It feels like our lives are planned, that they’re purposefully designed,” says Abeyta. “And when we reject religion, what we argue is that need to explain, that need to find purpose, that desire to feel important and meaningfulness doesn’t go away.

“People who tend to report a stronger belief in UFO conspiracies and little green men and things like that, tend to also report a higher sense of meaning in life. They want to go somewhere else to help restore that meaning. So it’s sort of like we’re trying to capture this compensatory process.”

COVID · 19-02-2021 1:21pm

This quoting people at random is great fun.

Paul Kurtz, the secular humanist and author:

UFO mythology is similar to the message of the classical religions where God sends his Angels as emissaries who offer salvation to those who accept the faith and obey his Prophets. Today, the chariots of the gods are UFOs. What we are witnessing in the past half century is the spawning of a New Age religion.

maccored · 19-02-2021 1:35pm

funny how most people I know who claim to have had a UFO experience arent religious in the slightest

COVID · 19-02-2021 1:41pm

maccored wrote: »

funny how most people I know who claim to have had a UFO experience arent religious in the slightest

But they are you know, they just found a new one.

EmmetSpiceland · 19-02-2021 1:41pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Out of interest what potential explanations are there for the USS Nimitz encounter?

There’s a few “listed” on the Wikipedia article for that event.

If I had to put money on any outcome of what had occurred I wouldn’t be putting a euro on it being alien “visitors” from the far side of the galaxy.

But that’s just me.

COVID · 19-02-2021 1:43pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

.....and me.

COVID · 19-02-2021 1:51pm

maccored wrote: »

funny how most people I know who claim to have had a UFO experience arent religious in the slightest

Oh, and btw.

Funny how all of the people that I know have never claimed to have had a UFO 'experience' - whatever the fúck that's supposed to be.

Is it a bit like praying and hoping that something or someone out there is looking down on us, like God perhaps?

bangkok · 19-02-2021 1:57pm

COVID wrote: »

Oh, and btw.

Funny how all of the people that I know have never claimed to have had a UFO 'experience' - whatever the fúck that's supposed to be.

Is it a bit like praying and hoping that something or someone out there is looking down on us, like God perhaps?

lots of people havent, a lot of people have, 5-10% which cannot be explained after thorough investigation

COVID · 19-02-2021 2:00pm

bangkok wrote: »

lots of people havent, a lot of people have, 5-10% which cannot be explained after thorough investigation

I bet it cannot be explained!

steddyeddy · 19-02-2021 2:00pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

There’s a few “listed” on the Wikipedia article for that event.

If I had to put money on any outcome of what had occurred I wouldn’t be putting a euro on it being alien “visitors” from the far side of the galaxy.

But that’s just me.

Based on your Wiki research.

steddyeddy · 19-02-2021 2:02pm

COVID wrote: »

Andrew Abeyta, assistant professor of psychology at North Dakota State University.

“Religion is a really robust source of meaning in life. It gives us a sense of purpose. We feel important. It feels like our lives are planned, that they’re purposefully designed,” says Abeyta. “And when we reject religion, what we argue is that need to explain, that need to find purpose, that desire to feel important and meaningfulness doesn’t go away.

“People who tend to report a stronger belief in UFO conspiracies and little green men and things like that, tend to also report a higher sense of meaning in life. They want to go somewhere else to help restore that meaning. So it’s sort of like we’re trying to capture this compensatory process.”

You're conflating conspiracies with observations. I'm referring to observations, videos and radar data. Unless you're telling me radars are religious.

maccored · 19-02-2021 2:03pm

COVID wrote: »

Oh, and btw.

Funny how all of the people that I know have never claimed to have had a UFO 'experience' - whatever the fúck that's supposed to be.

Is it a bit like praying and hoping that something or someone out there is looking down on us, like God perhaps?

so what? Still trying to tie ufos to religion just because you quoted someone who hinted at it? I havent met any UFO experiencing religious people yet - but thats because you havent met anyone who claims to have had a ufo experience .... weird idea that one. Its nothing like praying to god - how the **** did you come to that conclusion? Is it because you never met anyone who's had a ufo experience?

whatever the fúck that's supposed to be

anyone who thinks theyve seen an unidentified flying object. Not that hard to understand.

steddyeddy · 19-02-2021 2:03pm

COVID wrote: »

Oh, and btw.

Funny how all of the people that I know have never claimed to have had a UFO 'experience' - whatever the fúck that's supposed to be.

Is it a bit like praying and hoping that something or someone out there is looking down on us, like God perhaps?

No offence but you don't expect them to tell you if they did? You'd tell someone who would handle their claim with maturity.

bangkok · 19-02-2021 2:04pm

COVID wrote: »

I bet it cannot be explained!

i presume you have heard about J.Allen Hynek?

COVID · 19-02-2021 2:05pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

You're conflating conspiracies with observations. I'm referring to observations, videos and radar data. Unless you're telling me radars are religious.

No, I think you're telling me that radars are not religious.

Thanks for that.

steddyeddy · 19-02-2021 2:06pm

maccored wrote: »

so what? Still trying to tie ufos to religion just because you quoted someone who hinted at it? I havent met any UFO experiencing religious people yet - but thats because you havent met anyone who claims to have had a ufo experience .... weird idea that one. Its nothing like praying to god - how the **** did you come to that conclusion? Is it because you never met anyone who's had a ufo experience?

Also it only works for systems of belief. Not evidence such as FLIR videos and radar data. These videos from the Nimitz encounter are interesting to say the least. Conspiracy theory doesn't account for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO_M0hLlJ-Q

Quantum Baloney · 19-02-2021 2:06pm

The UFO thing is mainly floated by the powers that be to keep people trapped in the current paradigm.

COVID · 19-02-2021 2:06pm

bangkok wrote: »

i presume you have heard about J.Allen Hynek?

You're free to presume of course.

maccored · 19-02-2021 2:08pm

COVID wrote: »

You're free to presume of course.

you're free to talk to try your best winding people up and very much welcome to be as cynical as you wish.

maccored · 19-02-2021 2:10pm

Quantum Baloney wrote: »

The UFO thing is mainly floated by the powers that be to keep people trapped in the current paradigm.

i wouldnt doubt there is that to a certain degree

steddyeddy · 19-02-2021 2:11pm

There's definitely misinformation. These types of stories are good cover for testing secret aircraft.

olestoepoke · 19-02-2021 2:18pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Conspiracy theory doesn't account for them.

Earth is hit by pieces of flying debris all the time, thats exactly what that video looks like to me. I believe 100% that there is other life out there, its just too vast with too many galaxies not to have life somewhere. Do I believe we've ever been visited, possible for sure but I have never seen anything that convinced me that we have. The problem is the size of the universe, not only do you have to find life they have to be advanced enough to travel astronomically long distances, there are a lot of variables that have to align i.e their advancement, the distance they need to travel and the timing.

COVID · 19-02-2021 2:22pm

maccored wrote: »

so what? Still trying to tie ufos to religion just because you quoted someone who hinted at it? I havent met any UFO experiencing religious people yet - but thats because you havent met anyone who claims to have had a ufo experience .... weird idea that one. Its nothing like praying to god - how the **** did you come to that conclusion? Is it because you never met anyone who's had a ufo experience?

anyone who thinks theyve seen an unidentified flying object. Not that hard to understand.

Seeing an object in the sky, which is not immediately recognisable or identifiable, is normal for normal people. It means diddlysquat.

Some would like to infuse such a sighting with an outer-worldly import. Or even believe that they themselves are somehow 'special' for seeing such a thing.

However, most of us just move on without thinking to bore rigid the next person we meet with the phantasmagorical story of our quasi-religious experience and how meaningful it all was.

COVID · 19-02-2021 2:31pm

maccored wrote: »

you're free to talk to try your best winding people up and very much welcome to be as cynical as you wish.

You might say 'cynical'; it's a favoured word of religious people for non-believers.

I would prefer to think of myself as slightly less credulous than you, obviously.;)

EmmetSpiceland · 19-02-2021 2:37pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Based on your Wiki research.

Research, come on. Listen, bub, you asked for potential explanations so, as I’m not “au fait” with the latest UFO encounters, I checked the Wikipedia article on the “case”. I’m hardly going to go to some Fortean site where the only potential explanation is aliens.

Frankly, I’m starting to question your scientific integrity if you, persistently, dismiss any dissenting voice that doesn’t fully back the idea that these unexplained events are alien space men flying around in spaceships. It’s like with those “doctors” or “professors” who appear on shows like ‘Ancient Aliens’.

maccored · 19-02-2021 2:43pm

COVID wrote: »

Seeing an object in the sky, which is not immediately recognisable or identifiable, is normal for normal people. It means diddlysquat.

Some would like to infuse such a sighting with an outer-worldly import. Or even believe that they themselves are somehow 'special' for seeing such a thing.

However, most of us just move on without thinking to bore rigid the next person we meet with the phantasmagorical story of our quasi-religious experience and how meaningful it all was.

i seen one 6 foot off the ground a few feet in front of me (it was unidentifiable and it was flying) - sorry to burst your bubble. I outlined it int he thread if you could be bothered reading. I wont even ask you to point out anywhere on this that Ive even mentioned the word 'aliens' etc.

anyway - you know best. Hope you get your obvious religious issues sorted. Ta ta!

COVID · 19-02-2021 3:08pm

maccored wrote: »

i seen one 6 foot off the ground a few feet in front of me (it was unidentifiable and it was flying) - sorry to burst your bubble. I outlined it int he thread if you could be bothered reading. I wont even ask you to point out anywhere on this that Ive even mentioned the word 'aliens' etc.

anyway - you know best. Hope you get your obvious religious issues sorted. Ta ta!

The fact that you 'outlined' the story doesn't make it any less ludicrous.

However, after claiming to see the above in bold, I believe it might be best for you to pay a visit to your local GP.

Do post back and tell us all how you got on, and don't hold back on telling the full story to him/her.

Do take care.

COVID · 19-02-2021 3:16pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Research, come on. Listen, bub, you asked for potential explanations so, as I’m not “au fait” with the latest UFO encounters, I checked the Wikipedia article on the “case”. I’m hardly going to go to some Fortean site where the only potential explanation is aliens.

Frankly, I’m starting to question your scientific integrity if you, persistently, dismiss any dissenting voice that doesn’t fully back the idea that these unexplained events are alien space men flying around in spaceships. It’s like with those “doctors” or “professors” who appear on shows like ‘Ancient Aliens’.

Agree with the above 'ES', save for the bit about the poster's 'scientific integrity', how or where was this established?

Kunta Kinte · 19-02-2021 3:16pm

COVID wrote: »

You might say 'cynical'; it's a favoured word of religious people for non-believers.

I would prefer to think of myself as slightly less credulous than you, obviously.;)

Hypothetical question for you. What would you say to someone who might suggest that you yourself have been abducted and implanted and the reason you try to slag off the believers is because you have been programmed to do so?

COVID · 19-02-2021 3:18pm

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Hypothetical question for you. What would you say to someone who might suggest that you yourself have been abducted and implanted and the reason you try to slag off the believers is because you have been programmed to do so?

Help!

bangkok · 19-02-2021 3:21pm

COVID wrote: »

The fact that you 'outlined' the story doesn't make it any less ludicrous.

However, after claiming to see the above in bold, I believe it might be best for you to pay a visit to your local GP.

Do post back and tell us all how you got on, and don't hold back on telling the full story to him/her.

Do take care.

are you trying to tell the OP he didnt see what he claims to have seen?

Do you believe in UFOs & flying saucers ?

Comments