Is it stupid to buy a petrol/diesel car in 2019?

New i'd go for electric all the way.

Electric has been pushed repeatedly by media etc over the last 2/3 years. Yet it still only makes up circa 1% of the market. You wouldn't think that for the noise generated.

It is also somewhat debatable as to how green they really are. Especially where govt policy leads to the scrapping of servicable cars, so the owner can get a brand new electric.

Cilar wrote: »

With electric cars improving every years, and starting to reach mass market demands with reasonable range (Kona, Kia Niro, Leaf 60kwh, Zoe 55kwh etc), are the pure petrol/diesel cars currently selling new going to depreciate way faster than in the past?

At that rate, petrol/diesel cars are going to be like smoking in an elevator in 4 to 5 years time, or like travelling in a coal steam train vs an electric train.

Second hand electric cars are even increasing in value in the past year or so.

Any thoughts?

Well as long as EVs like the small Hyundai Kona continue to cost a ridiculous amount (38k after the grants that aren't sustainable long term) and stay out of reach of joe public who hasn't or work for a company that can benefit from 0% BIK then I don't think so.

Of course some will tell you that spending 38k on an electric Kona is well worth it when only spending €2 on electricity to charge it every week. Seems very familiar to 2008 when people justified buying diesel cars to just drive around town because they saved a few hundred euro a year on motor tax.

Time will tell I guess but I won't be rushing out buying one anyway.

When I hear the fellas down the pub mentioning an electric car as option next buy I will believe it.

99% of people buying a car this year so far said no. Give me diesel.or Petrol and lumps of coal to throw at EV's

w211 wrote: »

Electric car is for you if you drive only 10 minutes every single morning and evening. It is great for short distances. Petrol and diesel needs much longer driving distances. Honestly the electric cars does not have a place for mass production. We do not have so much lithium. The hydrogen or hydrogen cell have the real future. Hydrogen are good because any petrol car is possible to modify for hydrogen ready. Hydrogen cell can be the future "electric car". So do not pollute the earth by lithium battery cars.

I have a mate started doing a 250 km round trip daily in his Kona, car has a 400 km range.

Fills in 45 minutes at a 100kw Charger, but he rarely uses a rapid charger anyway, only use case would be going from Amsterdam to Berlin or something, drive for 3 1/2 hours, stop plug in and go for a bite to eat then come back and carry on.

He has a Zappy Charger at home so he plugs in the car when he is at home to keep it topped up, plus it's nice and warm in the morning when he gets into it.

Also his work has free charging so he can plug in there as well (No BIK Charge in Germany for charging in Work)

Doesn't need to bother with petrol stations and doesn't need to mess around with changing oil and so on.

Is fuel bill is reduced by around 2800/3000 euros per year, maintenance costs are very low as there is no oil / filter etc to change, just need to to the brakes, fluid and tyres.

So yep I'd go Electric, looking at buying one now.

In Ireland I wouldn't consider it unless I could charge at home.

bazz26 wrote: »

Well as long as EVs like the small Hyundai Kona continue to cost a ridiculous amount (38k after the grants that aren't sustainable long term) and stay out of reach of joe public who hasn't or work for a company that can benefit from 0% BIK then I don't think so.

Of course some will tell you that spending 38k on an electric Kona is well worth it when only spending €2 on electricity to charge it every week. Seems very familiar to 2008 when people justified buying diesel cars to just drive around town because they saved a few hundred euro a year on motor tax.

Time will tell I guess but I won't be rushing out buying one anyway.

Thats the thing. People talk only about increase in battery, but not about the price tag. 38k Kona is for smaller battery, the bigger one is 50k? ( At least what I can see on done deal ). From economy point of view you need to do some stupid millage to make savings on EV considering you can buy normal petrol Kona for less then 25k in very nice spec!
There are a lot of people like me who can not afford even 38k price tag on car. Even then I would not spent it on small Korean crossover!!!

Right now it's a dooms day preaching going on, but EV is not even near the level it needs to be to replace ICE cars. For the next 10 years I am not afraid to pick up new petrol or diesel car. Those are not going anywhere yet! By the the time 10 years come, any car will be worth **** all. Even EV. That's not even mentioning that average new car buyer will change his car way before 10 years mark!

I never thought about it until demanufactured mentioned it. What would an electric car be like for towing? Surely it'd reduced the range available by quite a bit?

Only thing I'd get an electric car for is if I had a short commute to work. I go to England a lot and can only see hassle doing that with an electric car.

Cilar wrote: »

With electric cars improving every years, and starting to reach mass market demands with reasonable range (Kona, Kia Niro, Leaf 60kwh, Zoe 55kwh etc), are the pure petrol/diesel cars currently selling new going to depreciate way faster than in the past?

At that rate, petrol/diesel cars are going to be like smoking in an elevator in 4 to 5 years time, or like travelling in a coal steam train vs an electric train.

Second hand electric cars are even increasing in value in the past year or so.

Any thoughts?

Electric cars are no where even reasonably close to reaching mass market demands and wont be for a very long time, at least in this country. The lack of charging points or any other incentives by the current government is the greatest block to any sort of push towards EV's.

Until EVs can mimic petrol/diesel cars in refuelling terms then I wont touch them. I would consider a hybrid as my next car but i'm at least 10 years away from even considering an EV.

beauf wrote: »

Would you buy petrol or diesel now?
I'd say most would still buy diesel for the same reason. Tax and fuel savings

I recently thought not, but it depends on your usage, if you do a reasonable amount of mileage then even new now buying new might be a good/acceptable idea in an ICE diesel. I kinda got caught up in the idea of EV myself, but I realised as much as Id like to be greener (I think it is as its more efficient to produce electrical energy and no harmful emissions at the tailpipe opposed to a diesel/petrol engined vehicle), while it could suit my low mileage, the return/payback would still take a long time, it'd be better if I was doing high mileage near the maximum range of an EV under the worst (coldest) conditions.
Looking at the queues of traffic near me, Ive seen one or two EVs a few times, so the impact they make is significantly offset by the fact that most people cant afford to change for what it costs and drive vehicles with internal combustion engines, have suitable vehicles already anyway, there wouldnt be enough vehicles to meet the full demand for everyone to have an EV. Where I consider it may be questionably green is on the manufacturing side.
Where it might be attempted to influence by Governments is taxation, I dont think it should be a penalty system but I think its on the way, it will be stated as a green policy (Like Diesels were) but in reality it will be a keep the money train moving policy, ie in the case of diesels, they encouraged people to spend money on newer vehicles and incentivised that by making the motor tax cheaper, so people who could afford upgraded, many did not suit having a diesel.
Really for being/getting greener, mass transportation needs to be heavily invested in (more and better quality bus and rail services to meet the demand from commuter towns), so public/private mass transportation should be maximised, with maximise use of electric (overhead) or even generated on trains/other vehicles themselves themselves (Ive read recently there are Hydrogen powered trains in Germany and the UK and CNG buses), that will get more people greener quicker than getting everyone into EV (cars).
My biggest concern was how small the Kona was when I saw it, it looked smaller than a Nissan Juke. From what I saw online, I thought it was bigger, maybe not as big as a Tuscon but bigger than it actually is. I believe the Kia Niro is bigger, but not by much, any would do me for my mileage, but not as cost effective as if I was doing more, that said a diesel or petrol would be cheaper and probably come in at the same cost overall even with fuel, and not mean I have to pay all/mostly upfront for an EV, guess I'll be waiting till they get better or cheaper.

biko wrote: »

When I hear the fellas down the pub mentioning an electric car as option next buy I will believe it.

Saw some ridiculous ad, with a guy at some kind of farmers auction/mart for livestock (not that I know anything about that), seemed a bit unlikely for farmers usage.

flazio wrote: »

I think it depends on where in the country you are. West of the Shannon I think the charging infrastructure still has some way to go.

I got the impression that the charging infrastructure is poor everywhere, no doubt it will be worse the less densely populated and more spread out the population is, still no reason for every small town to have chargers, but people who have an EV should have their own surely?

redcup342 wrote: »

https://www.mydealz.de/deals/kia-e-niro-edition-7-elektro-suv-mit-64kwh-455km-reichweite-wltp-ca-4-5-monate-lieferzeit-1315493

E-Niro with 64-kWh (bigger) battery is around 30k over here with Government Subsidy of 2k

Many people don't even need the bigger battery

As fuel prices are increasing many people are saving between 2 and 3k / year.
No tax for 10 years guaranteed in Germany as well.

Saving of at least 30k (the cost of the car) over 10 years is indeed possible.

Couple that with Parking your EV in Germany is free in many cities

All nice and reasonable in Germany, but we are in Ireland right now, and prices differ a lot.
Right now charging at the public points is free, but ESB already talking about charging ( no pun intended ) people.
Don't understand me wrong, EV could be great and it will be eventually. At some point I will switch too,but right now, I won't be a paying beta tester for it. Technology, price, infrastructure is not here yet.
I love hot hatches and I can't wait when manufacturers will try to do hybrid type cars for speed and not economy for average Joe's.

redcup342 wrote: »

They'll never mimic the fueling of petrol/diesel cars since there is no need to as the infrastructure already exists to fuel it at your home.

Why would you drive to a place to hang around and fuel your car when you can plug it in like your phone and go to bed.

Because I use my car on several long trips every year for both work and social purposes. I don't want to have to book hotels and accommodation and also have to take into account whether they have charging points.

Not every one uses their car solely to go to work each day. Not everyone lives in cities where EVs may be more suitable and not everyone can make do with a pokey little hatchback when they have families to ferry about.

EV's are at least 2 decades away from mass use/appeal in this country and given the glacial speed in which change in this country happens, its probably closer to 30 years before EV's become the norm (and hopefully in that time, hybrid technology and/or hydrogen powered vehicles will have improved sufficiently enough to ensure I never have the displeasure of owning or driving an EV)

Buy whatever suits your needs.
Diesels are still selling big time so they will be around for next 15 years anyway.
Personally I've never bought diesel but am actively considering one now among other things.
I very much like the idea of plug in hybrid for people that have driving pattern to suit it.
Typically they have small all electric range and then have petrol engine as well.
If one was doing circa 10 mile commute each way and needed a car for the cross country trip at the weekend, I can't think of anything better as you would be full electric on commute.

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

EV's are at least 2 decades away from mass use/appeal in this country and given the glacial speed in which change in this country happens, its probably closer to 30 years before EV's become the norm (and hopefully in that time, hybrid technology and/or hydrogen powered vehicles will have improved sufficiently enough to ensure I never have the displeasure of owning or driving an EV)

You do realise that all petrol and diesel sales are to be banned in this country from 2030? That's only 11 years away. Electric vechicles will be the market leader long before that, because as the title of this thread suggests, people will be extremely reluctant to buy a petrol or diesel as it will have very little resale value.

Rdwrer wrote: »

You do realise that all petrol and diesel sales are to be banned in this country from 2030? That's only 11 years away. Electric vechicles will be the market leader long before that, because as the title of this thread suggests, people will be extremely reluctant to buy a petrol or diesel as it will have very little resale value.

What about commercial vehicles/HGV. I can't see current technology evolving to the point where we can efficiently transport goods across any distances using EV. There needs to be a breakthrough in battery technology that is not looking imminent.