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Anti-vaxxers

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    #4862
    Big Gerry
    Registered Users Posts: 764 ✭✭✭Big Gerry


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I work opposite specific regulators. Every error, no matter how insignificant, is escalated to the top and reported to them, there are entire departments dedicated to the detection of these errors and breaches, because the national regulators have zero tolerance, it's their mandate, they can and do strip licenses.

    You aren't arguing from reality, you are arguing from your own faulty interpretation of the world stuffed to the brim with your selection bias and lazy generalizations




    That's great to hear I hope they are open to disclosing any financial links they may or may not have with the pharmaceutical industry.


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    #4863
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Big Gerry wrote: »
    "Anti Vaxxer agenda" yawn.


    What did I say about Vaccines in this thread ?


    Name calling is the clearest sign you have lost the argument.


    You might as well call me a "racist" while your at it.

    Why not stop deflecting and substantiate your claims?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4864
    Big Gerry
    Registered Users Posts: 764 ✭✭✭Big Gerry


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Why not stop deflecting and substantiate your claims?


    Can you prove anything I have said so far is false ?


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    #4865
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Big Gerry wrote: »
    You obviously know very little about the pharmaceutical industry if you don't know that the FDA has major influence around the world.


    A lot of Pharma companies in Europe and Asia will go the FDA first so they can launch their product around the world.


    If you have any doubt about this simply look up any prescription medication you or your family have ever taking and more likely than not it was "FDA approved".

    They do indeed , and when they show up on your site for an audit one would sh1t oneself,because they are thorough


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    #4866
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Big Gerry wrote: »
    Can you prove anything I have said so far is false ?

    Again, I'm not here to do your research for you. You made the claims so the onus is on you to back them up.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4867
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Big Gerry wrote: »
    You can't make a blanket statement like that each vaccine has it own pros and cons.

    Why? Every vaccine is treated differently when it comes to statistical analysis.

    Yeah and its never wrong just look at Vioxx.


    Also I would only take a peer review author seriously if they have no competing interests.

    Ok, you don't understand what peer review is.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #4868
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    They do indeed , and when they show up on your site for an audit one would sh1t oneself,because they are thorough

    I used to work for a firm handling trials in asthma and COPD. The amount of paperwork was obscene. The TGN1412 disaster resulted in a lot more scrutiny.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #4869
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Big Gerry wrote: »
    "Anti Vaxxer agenda" yawn.


    What did I say about Vaccines in this thread ?


    Name calling is the clearest sign you have lost the argument.

    You can't reason someone out of position they didn't reason themselves into

    Anti-vaxxers and their enablers are pretty much the same thing, one just takes an "on the fence" stance because it's easier to argue than blindly denying vaccines work at all

    Your arguments are essentially a lazier version of outright denial


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    #4870
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭paul71


    Big Gerry wrote: »
    Can you prove anything I have said so far is false ?

    Everything. You said European Medical commission follows FDA, a blatant LIE.


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    #4871
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    paul71 wrote: »
    Everything. You said European Medical commission follows FDA, a blatant LIE.

    anything produced anywhere follows FDA if it's sold in the USA


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    #4872
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    anything produced anywhere follows FDA if it's sold in the USA

    It does. But that doesn't mean that the EMA will automatically accept it just because the FDA do.


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    #4873
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭mountai


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    anything produced anywhere follows FDA if it's sold in the USA

    Why let the truth get in the way ?. The dictates of " The Medical Stormtroopers" on these pages are the only things that matter . Anyone who DARES to question the fact that vaccines may cause damage is immediately labeled " Anti Vax" and are buried under a pile of verbal abuse . Parents of children who believe that their child is in need of medical assistance are derided , why? , because they are " Terrorists" .


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    #4874
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    mountai wrote: »
    Why let the truth get in the way ?. The dictates of " The Medical Stormtroopers" on these pages are the only things that matter . Anyone who DARES to question the fact that vaccines may cause damage is immediately labeled " Anti Vax" and are buried under a pile of verbal abuse . Parents of children who believe that their child is in need of medical assistance are derided , why? , because they are " Terrorists" .

    These parents insist their children had serious reactions to vaccines in spite of the scientific evidence saying otherwise.

    At the heart of all these groups are homeopaths and snake oil sellers exploiting the parents of these kids.

    It's the kids i feel sorry for, how many end up getting treated with magic water and see their health deteriorate because their stupid parents are fans of the likes of .Alex Jones, Mercola and their ilk


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    #4875
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    mountai wrote: »
    Why let the truth get in the way ?. The dictates of " The Medical Stormtroopers" on these pages are the only things that matter . Anyone who DARES to question the fact that vaccines may cause damage is immediately labeled " Anti Vax" and are buried under a pile of verbal abuse . Parents of children who believe that their child is in need of medical assistance are derided , why? , because they are " Terrorists" .

    Having a child does not make one a paediatrician and nobody has been called a terrorist here. It would be nice if those pushing the anti-vaxx agenda could stop making up silly nonsense like this. Disagreement is not abuse.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4876
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    anything produced anywhere follows FDA if it's sold in the USA
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It does. But that doesn't mean that the EMA will automatically accept it just because the FDA do.

    I am not sure how people are not getting this, if they were, they would get approved in both places nearly simultaneously whereas some drugs only ever get approved in one location not the other, sometimes because the target population is not there, maybe the clinical trials are not robust enough for one group of people etc. Yes, if it passes in one area it is likely to pass in the other, no tbecause they are in cahoots, but because the level of work to get past a hearing is so much that if you do it for one, you most likely have done alot of the required leg work for the other.

    It is a bit like a driving test, if you have passed some of the toughter tests for larger vehicles, there is a large chance you will pass a different test for a different catagory because you have that knowledge/skillset, it is not guaranteed and you still have to sit the test though.


  • Options
    #4877
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I am not sure how people are not getting this, if they were, they would get approved in both places nearly simultaneously whereas some drugs only ever get approved in one location not the other, sometimes because the target population is not there, maybe the clinical trials are not robust enough for one group of people etc. Yes, if it passes in one area it is likely to pass in the other, no tbecause they are in cahoots, but because the level of work to get past a hearing is so much that if you do it for one, you most likely have done alot of the required leg work for the other.

    It is a bit like a driving test, if you have passed some of the toughter tests for larger vehicles, there is a large chance you will pass a different test for a different catagory because you have that knowledge/skillset, it is not guaranteed and you still have to sit the test though.

    i' mean we're talking spelling mistake level of scrutiny! you really have to have your sh1t together to pass an audit so if you're 100% passable for one you're pretty much on the ball for the other


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    #4878
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I am not sure how people are not getting this, if they were, they would get approved in both places nearly simultaneously whereas some drugs only ever get approved in one location not the other, sometimes because the target population is not there, maybe the clinical trials are not robust enough for one group of people etc. Yes, if it passes in one area it is likely to pass in the other, no tbecause they are in cahoots, but because the level of work to get past a hearing is so much that if you do it for one, you most likely have done alot of the required leg work for the other.

    It is a bit like a driving test, if you have passed some of the toughter tests for larger vehicles, there is a large chance you will pass a different test for a different catagory because you have that knowledge/skillset, it is not guaranteed and you still have to sit the test though.

    No i'm pretty sure i definitely get it.


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    #4879
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Not anti-vax per se, but wow there are parallels with this guy and Wakefield:

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/didier-raoult-hydroxychloroquine-plaquenil.html

    Last line summarizes it: "For now, Raoult has given unproven hope to millions, uncharted dangers for those afflicted with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, and unavoidable despair for those who listen to the U.S. president’s daily press briefings. "


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    #4880
    VicMackey1
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭VicMackey1


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Not anti-vax per se, but wow there are parallels with this guy and Wakefield:

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/didier-raoult-hydroxychloroquine-plaquenil.html

    Last line summarizes it: "For now, Raoult has given unproven hope to millions, uncharted dangers for those afflicted with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, and unavoidable despair for those who listen to the U.S. president’s daily press briefings. "

    I thought that drug was authorized by the FDA in the US?


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    #4881
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    VicMackey1 wrote: »
    I thought that drug was authorized by the FDA in the US?

    Just recently, under pressure from the Administration. So, in response to *one* study done by a Dr. with dubious credentials and a serious axe to grind (in France), the US has jumped on a medical bandwagon that might prove to be seriously destructive to a lot of people. The parallels with Wakefield are unmistakable to me.


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    #4882
    hcf500
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭hcf500


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Not anti-vax per se, but wow there are parallels with this guy and Wakefield:

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/didier-raoult-hydroxychloroquine-plaquenil.html

    Last line summarizes it: "For now, Raoult has given unproven hope to millions, uncharted dangers for those afflicted with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, and unavoidable despair for those who listen to the U.S. president’s daily press briefings. "

    Trump is already responsible for one death by touting this miracle cure! Man found the ingredient and drank it thinking he was protecting himself from the virus. Trump has blood on his hands


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    #4883
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    hcf500 wrote: »
    Trump is already responsible for one death by touting this miracle cure! Man found the ingredient and drank it thinking he was protecting himself from the virus. Trump has blood on his hands

    Actually, the guy in question found something that sounded similar, and drank it. Aquarium cleaner apparently. Wife drank it too, she survived and said Trump inspired them to drink it.


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    #4884
    hcf500
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭hcf500


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Just recently, under pressure from the Administration. So, in response to *one* study done by a Dr. with dubious credentials and a serious axe to grind (in France), the US has jumped on a medical bandwagon that might prove to be seriously destructive to a lot of people. The parallels with Wakefield are unmistakable to me.

    Doesn't say much for the likes of the FDA when they cave to pressure from politicians!


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    #4885
    Shady Grady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭Shady Grady


    hcf500 wrote: »
    Trump is already responsible for one death by touting this miracle cure! Man found the ingredient and drank it thinking he was protecting himself from the virus. Trump has blood on his hands

    To be honest, the guy should have done his own homework, before taking that stuff. I'm not a Trump supporter, just a common sense supporter.


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    #4886
    Shady Grady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭Shady Grady


    hcf500 wrote: »
    Doesn't say much for the likes of the FDA when they cave to pressure from politicians!

    Our FDA has a long history of caving for grants and other dubious reasons.


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    #4887
    VicMackey1
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭VicMackey1


    Come on now, I know some here don't like Trump but to suggest that he is at fault because some absolute idiots ingested fish tank cleaner is a stretch. He deserves a Darwin Award


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    #4888
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    VicMackey1 wrote: »
    Come on now, I know some here don't like Trump but to suggest that he is at fault because some absolute idiots ingested fish tank cleaner is a stretch. He deserves a Darwin Award

    We're arguing Trump culpability in other threads :) Here, I simply pointed out the parallels with anti-vax and this French doctor's "research."


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    #4889
    VicMackey1
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭VicMackey1


    Igotadose wrote: »
    We're arguing Trump culpability in other threads :) Here, I simply pointed out the parallels with anti-vax and this French doctor's "research."

    You're right. I won't mention Trump again. I only mention him in one post though, whereas you mentioned him or his administration in your last four posts ☺


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    #4890
    hcf500
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭hcf500


    So can we really trust the largest drug licencing administration in the world?


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    #4891
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    hcf500 wrote: »
    So can we really trust the largest drug licencing administration in the world?

    Can we really trust people pushing the anti-vaxx agenda without a shred of evidence?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



This discussion has been closed.
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