Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Hard Knocks · 19-02-2019 11:58am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Changing the 4 movement rule will only put more money in the pockets of marts and cattle hauliers.

While I do agree with your point
The issue I have with the 4 movement rule is that it destroys the store trade, when the farmer is not bringing to beef. It also affects if you put cattle to rented sheds (old B&B).
Does the number of times the animal goes to a Mart count too?

charolais0153 · 19-02-2019 1:14pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

While I do agree with your point
The issue I have with the 4 movement rule is that it destroys the store trade, when the farmer is not bringing to beef. It also affects if you put cattle to rented sheds (old B&B).
Does the number of times the animal goes to a Mart count too?

Only movement from one herd to another counts in the mart. If u dont sell there is no movement

Bass Reeves · 19-02-2019 5:44pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

While I do agree with your point
The issue I have with the 4 movement rule is that it destroys the store trade, when the farmer is not bringing to beef. It also affects if you put cattle to rented sheds (old B&B).
Does the number of times the animal goes to a Mart count too?

Yes B&Bing cattle is an issue but the 4 owner( it actually 3 movements) rule has advantages as well. It limits the number of times dealers can trade an animal. If you either take a dairy suck or a weanling 4 owners is fair limit to both side. IMO if it is changed any value gained will be lost in Mart fees and dealers margin so across the system there is no gain.
It allows a suck calf to be traded as a calf, a weanling and a store. It allows a suckler bred animal to be traded as a weanling, yearling/store or store/finish. I cannot see the advantage of adding in 1-2 more movements. If most lads concentrated on actually getting animals to the right selling weight they be amazed how much more profitable they are. It is unfortunate there is not a margin for 3-4 owner in an animal. Making it a potential 5-6 will not improve that. A lad traipising around the country with truck loads of cattle si adding no money into the system

wrangler · 19-02-2019 7:21pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Yes B&Bing cattle is an issue but the 4 owner( it actually 3 movements) rule has advantages as well. It limits the number of times dealers can trade an animal. If you either take a dairy suck or a weanling 4 owners is fair limit to both side. IMO if it is changed any value gained will be lost in Mart fees and dealers margin so across the system there is no gain.
It allows a suck calf to be traded as a calf, a weanling and a store. It allows a suckler bred animal to be traded as a weanling, yearling/store or store/finish. I cannot see the advantage of adding in 1-2 more movements. If most lads concentrated on actually getting animals to the right selling weight they be amazed how much more profitable they are. It is unfortunate there is not a margin for 3-4 owner in an animal. Making it a potential 5-6 will not improve that. A lad traipising around the country with truck loads of cattle si adding no money into the system

I think if the processors said that black was black, the BPM would challenge them, four movements could be €100 + out of the animal.... amargin in itself
They're even telling everyone that shows are a movement just to wind it up

Robson99 · 19-02-2019 8:03pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Cormac Healy spoke again a few weeks ago about cattle weight . Again he spoke about maximum carcass weights of 360-380kgs. I know this causes huge issues with suckler bred stock as it virtually makes them and bull beef unviable but that is a market reality. It's a market reality as well that O- beef is as suitable as R+ and maybe more suitable for the supermarket trade yet is not getting the QA.

But why bother having an extra 30 cent on the grid for an E grade animal if the market doesn't want it. What is the deference in taste quality marketability etc between a 420kg animal and a 421kg animal ?? Or more to the point what difference is there in the same carcasses between Feb 2nd or Feb 3rd. They bring in weight limits /restrictions when it suits them. Nothing to do with quality.
Impossible for some of the suckler cattle to make money with sub 420kg carcasses

wrangler · 19-02-2019 8:24pm

Robson99 wrote: »

But why bother having an extra 30 cent on the grid for an E grade animal if the market doesn't want it. What is the deference in taste quality marketability etc between a 420kg animal and a 421kg animal ?? Or more to the point what difference is there in the same carcasses between Feb 2nd or Feb 3rd. They bring in weight limits /restrictions when it suits them. Nothing to do with quality.
Impossible for some of the suckler cattle to make money with sub 420kg carcasses

They have to draw the line somewhere, they don't want big joints of meat, at least you get away with heavier carcases some parts of the year , sheep are restricted all year.
It was when we got a tour of ICM that we got the reason for the smaller carcases, rows and rows of packers putting chops in a tray,thousands every hour, they hadn't time to cut the end of a chop to fit on a tray, those trays had to be at a price, if they left maximum weight open ended it'd all be mince and burgers'
If you order a beast for the freezer and a butcher drops a big slob of a heifer into your freezer you wouldn't like it, that's what farmers are trying to do to the processors by overruling their specs, dumping in stuff that's difficult to sell

patsy_mccabe · 19-02-2019 8:57pm

Cattle Movements in Ireland - 2016

Robson99 · 19-02-2019 11:54pm

wrangler wrote: »

They have to draw the line somewhere, they don't want big joints of meat, at least you get away with heavier carcases some parts of the year , sheep are restricted all year.
It was when we got a tour of ICM that we got the reason for the smaller carcases, rows and rows of packers putting chops in a tray,thousands every hour, they hadn't time to cut the end of a chop to fit on a tray, those trays had to be at a price, if they left maximum weight open ended it'd all be mince and burgers'
If you order a beast for the freezer and a butcher drops a big slob of a heifer into your freezer you wouldn't like it, that's what farmers are trying to do to the processors by overruling their specs, dumping in stuff that's difficult to sell

Its the stop start of it thats my main gripe. Killed a couple of heifers 500kgs + carcass last spring no problem... happy to get them... have you any more of them... now they cut me over 420 kgs
Imagine you killed lambs and no weight limit. Then you have 10 to kill 26 kg carcass and when you bring them down you are told sorry 21.5 kg limit... would you think fair enough they just drawing the line.. I doubt it

Bass Reeves · 20-02-2019 12:02am

Robson99 wrote: »

But why bother having an extra 30 cent on the grid for an E grade animal if the market doesn't want it. What is the deference in taste quality marketability etc between a 420kg animal and a 421kg animal ?? Or more to the point what difference is there in the same carcasses between Feb 2nd or Feb 3rd. They bring in weight limits /restrictions when it suits them. Nothing to do with quality.
Impossible for some of the suckler cattle to make money with sub 420kg carcasses

There is a perception out there that the processors want E&U grade cattle. IMO it is only that a perception. They want them to fill a gap in the winter finishing system at 360 kgs DW and even at that it is not the E and U grade they want. When cattle get scarce they will flat price P and O- cattle before they will improve the upper end price. It is interesting at present they seem to be mad looking for light AA cattle and will if lads have a lot of cattle to be killed they will take these AA cattle first.

Just a few posts ago Wrangler was on why the processors were not dropping the base price. Look at the market at present yes processors are holding the steer and heifer base prices. But U16 months bulls are hard to get slaughtered but seem to be going onto the grid, however 16-24 month U grade bulls are are moving at 3.5-3.6/kg with R grade back at 3.4 and O grade back at 3.2/kg. In 5-6 years we have gone from O grade bulls getting the base price to U grade failing to get the base price. Like I replied to Wrangler the processors do not want to let the door open to competition but they must not be afraid of a processors starting to take these heavy bulls at another 10-20c/kg as there seems to be a lack of a market for them.

manjou · 20-02-2019 12:14am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Robson99 wrote: »

But why bother having an extra 30 cent on the grid for an E grade animal if the market doesn't want it. What is the deference in taste quality marketability etc between a 420kg animal and a 421kg animal ?? Or more to the point what difference is there in the same carcasses between Feb 2nd or Feb 3rd. They bring in weight limits /restrictions when it suits them. Nothing to do with quality.
Impossible for some of the suckler cattle to make money with sub 420kg carcasses

There is a perception out there that the processors want E&U grade cattle. IMO it is only that a perception. They want them to fill a gap in the winter finishing system at 360 kgs DW and even at that it is not the E and U grade they want. When cattle get scarce they will flat price P and O- cattle before they will improve the upper end price. It is interesting at present they seem to be mad looking for light AA cattle and will if lads have a lot of cattle to be killed they will take these AA cattle first.

Just a few posts ago Wrangler was on why the processors were not dropping the base price. Look at the market at present yes processors are holding the steer and heifer base prices. But U16 months bulls are hard to get slaughtered but seem to be going onto the grid, however 16-24 month U grade bulls are are moving at 3.5-3.6/kg with R grade back at 3.4 and O grade back at 3.2/kg. In 5-6 years we have gone from O grade bulls getting the base price to U grade failing to get the base price. Like I replied to Wrangler the processors do not want to let the door open to competition but they must not be afraid of a processors starting to take these heavy bulls at another 10-20c/kg as there seems to be a lack of a market for them.

the angus is a brand w which is perceived worldwide as better tasting beef rightly or wrongly is another debate so they have a market for it. e.g. got picture of nieces up a mountain in Bulgaria in background sign advertising black angus burgers.

wrangler · 20-02-2019 12:31am

Robson99 wrote: »

Its the stop start of it thats my main gripe. Killed a couple of heifers 500kgs + carcass last spring no problem... happy to get them... have you any more of them... now they cut me over 420 kgs
Imagine you killed lambs and no weight limit. Then you have 10 to kill 26 kg carcass and when you bring them down you are told sorry 21.5 kg limit... would you think fair enough they just drawing the line.. I doubt it

I wouldn't be caught with overweight sheep again, That's for sure. Do you not think you're taking a risk feeding to that weight and you have to take the fall, they are the first to be cut every time there was a glut.
I was sick warning farmers about bulls in 2012 and they just laughed at me, like you they were talking about 500kgs bulls the previous spring but the factories were warning us to talk to the factories before committing to feeding bulls....everyone knew that year the numbers were high for the end of the year,
Since then they've been talking about 400kg max, you were lucky to get your 500kg ones off

gerryirl · 20-02-2019 12:38am

Look we can all agree or disagree.. talk ****e while we are in it but the simple facts are there for us all to see.
Price is sh1t
4 movements,
30 months
and now to top it all off the factories are making up the weight limits cut off

We are hearing they dont want the dairy beef yet by having a dead weight cut off point of 430kgs is killing the proper suckler farmer who breads top quality cattle.
I mean to be feeding cattle meal and then bring them to the factory and get cut for over weight Im sorry but thats the final insult. They are constantly moving the goalposts. What does the weight cut make out of this 5 star rubbish and now pay you to weight the calves, for what so they can move the goal posts again.
430kg dead weight would be give or take 750kgs live. Thats not a huge animal by any means.. what do the fookers want, dexters. I have cattle in the shed I was going to kill when out to grass but Im as well sell them in a mart in the next month. They will all be over 430kg dead come mid summer. Im as well let some other sucker get shafted

wrangler · 20-02-2019 12:47am

gerryirl wrote: »

Look we can all agree or disagree.. talk ****e while we are in it but the simple facts are there for us all to see.
Price is sh1t
4 movements,
30 months
and now to top it all off the factories are making up the weight limits cut off

We are hearing they dont want the dairy beef yet by having a dead weight cut off point of 430kgs is killing the proper suckler farmer who breads top quality cattle.
I mean to be feeding cattle meal and then bring them to the factory and get cut for over weight Im sorry but thats the final insult. They are constantly moving the goalposts. What does the weight cut make out of this 5 star rubbish and now pay you to weight the calves, for what so they can move the goal posts again.
430kg dead weight would be give or take 750kgs live. Thats not a huge animal by any means.. what do the fookers want, dexters. I have cattle in the shed I was going to kill when out to grass but Im as well sell them in a mart in the next month. They will all be over 430kg dead come mid summer. Im as well let some other sucker get shafted

I was talikng to a farmer today that has started breeding herefords out of charolais cows, sold them at 15mths after 90 days feeding for €1400, sounds better than most systems

gerryirl · 20-02-2019 1:11am

wrangler wrote: »

I was talikng to a farmer today that has started breeding herefords out of charolais cows, sold them at 15mths after 90 days feeding for €1400, sounds better than most systems

Seriously something like that is the way to go. Fair play to him.. that's bulls im guessing.

Robson99 · 20-02-2019 1:16am

gerryirl wrote: »

Look we can all agree or disagree.. talk ****e while we are in it but the simple facts are there for us all to see.
Price is sh1t
4 movements,
30 months
and now to top it all off the factories are making up the weight limits cut off

We are hearing they dont want the dairy beef yet by having a dead weight cut off point of 430kgs is killing the proper suckler farmer who breads top quality cattle.
I mean to be feeding cattle meal and then bring them to the factory and get cut for over weight Im sorry but thats the final insult. They are constantly moving the goalposts. What does the weight cut make out of this 5 star rubbish and now pay you to weight the calves, for what so they can move the goal posts again.
430kg dead weight would be give or take 750kgs live. Thats not a huge animal by any means.. what do the fookers want, dexters. I have cattle in the shed I was going to kill when out to grass but Im as well sell them in a mart in the next month. They will all be over 430kg dead come mid summer. Im as well let some other sucker get shafted

Great post.
There will be no problem with their own out of the feedlots being 420 kg+ carcass weights.
As well as the IFA being useless for the Suckler farmer the Continental Breed Society's never seem to raise a voice to support beef farmers. A lot of continental breeds are a waste of money killing sub 420kgs,

wrangler · 20-02-2019 1:17am

gerryirl wrote: »

Seriously something like that is the way to go. Fair play to him.. that's bulls im guessing.

yea, he said they'have the right fat cover from a year old, you could sell them anytime if you were stuck.
He also passed the remark that he'd get nothing for them if he wanted to sell them as weanlings

wrangler · 20-02-2019 1:24am

Robson99 wrote: »

Great post.
There will be no problem with their own out of the feedlots being 420 kg+ carcass weights.
As well as the IFA being useless for the Suckler farmer the Continental Breed Society's never seem to raise a voice to support beef farmers. A lot of continental breeds are a waste of money killing sub 420kgs,

Why would they produce something that's a bitch to sell, they'd have the best of ways to produce what the market requires.
Feeding proper rations would be no problem to them and do it right

Bass Reeves · 20-02-2019 9:29am

wrangler wrote: »

I was talikng to a farmer today that has started breeding herefords out of charolais cows, sold them at 15mths after 90 days feeding for €1400, sounds better than most systems

I have often advocated this system to lads, the use of traditional bulls on good quality Contenintal Cross cows. Most do not want to consider it. While some have not got the land quality to finish such cattle and as you said selling as weanling's is not an option. I presume they were killed in May/June last year. As young bulls they would grade R-/R= so have achieved a grid price with HE bonus of of 4.3-4.4/kg( 4.1-4.2 base price+12c QA+ 10-20c HE bonus+3c for grading R-/R=). They would have killed 325kgd DW. May not have eaten huge quanties of ration either. Maybe came off the cow at 350 kgs in October.

Issue might be the heifers if you could finish them in August at 270 is Dw and they came into 1100 euro the system might be feasible. Cow should be lower maintenance that a big CH or LM cow with good fertility and milk

Robson99 wrote: »

Great post.
There will be no problem with their own out of the feedlots being 420 kg+ carcass weights.
As well as the IFA being useless for the Suckler farmer the Continental Breed Society's never seem to raise a voice to support beef farmers. A lot of continental breeds are a waste of money killing sub 420kgs,

Wrangler is right on this any contracted cattle I saw over the years were i killing around the 300-350 kgs. Saw a lot of heifers that I would have considered border line over fat.

patsy_mccabe · 20-02-2019 10:12am

wrangler wrote: »

I was talikng to a farmer today that has started breeding herefords out of charolais cows, sold them at 15mths after 90 days feeding for €1400, sounds better than most systems

He would have been a lot better doing it the other way around, Hereford cows and a char bull. Cows would have been easier kept and a lot more milk. You still end up with the same calf. (Not including bonuses anyway.)

Bass Reeves · 20-02-2019 10:23am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

He would have been a lot better doing it the other way around, Hereford cows and a char bull. Cows would have been easier kept and a lot more milk. You still end up with the same calf.

Cow would need to be pedigree to attain HE bonus. Product would not be as saleable. IMO using a milky cow LMXFR might actually achieve a highr DW at sub 16 months. I imagine that he had the cows in the herd already and just changed bulls. By changing to a LMXFR, CHXFR or SIXFR the DW of bulls might be pused up towards 350kg mark as bulls would be heavier coming off cows in October so a lot of the heavy lifting could be done by the cow. If calves were 350 at weaning a housing weight of 400 should nearly be achieveable in Early December. Hitting a LW of 650 in late May would give a DW of 350 kgs and would bring the carcasse value into 1470 euro. As I said it the heifers that would be the issue. Could you kill them at 250++ in August other wise it is down the high cost route of killing before or after Christmass

wrangler · 20-02-2019 10:43am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

He would have been a lot better doing it the other way around, Hereford cows and a char bull. Cows would have been easier kept and a lot more milk. You still end up with the same calf. (Not including bonuses anyway.)

His situation I'd imagine is that his sucklers were continental and he wanted something that'd be near the spec required, He'd be my age group and a very good farmer so wasn't going to do anything radical.
He's very pleased with the way they turned out.

bogman_bass · 20-02-2019 11:02am

Robson99 wrote: »

But why bother having an extra 30 cent on the grid for an E grade animal if the market doesn't want it.

For the answer to that you have to look at the other end of the scale. The penalty for a P grade is much bigger than the bonus for a U grade.

It’s a tool to keep dairy bred animals cheep

wrangler · 20-02-2019 11:06am

bogman_bass wrote: »

For the answer to that you have to look at the other end of the scale. The penalty for a P grade is much bigger than the bonus for a U grade.

It’s a tool to keep dairy bred animals cheep

Is there not a meat yield advantage with the E over the P, I thought the grid was based on meat yield, I think if it was done again now the bonus should be bigger for the E and the penalty larger for the P.

K9 · 20-02-2019 12:38pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Cow would need to be pedigree to attain HE bonus. Product would not be as saleable. IMO using a milky cow LMXFR might actually achieve a highr DW at sub 16 months. I imagine that he had the cows in the herd already and just changed bulls. By changing to a LMXFR, CHXFR or SIXFR the DW of bulls might be pused up towards 350kg mark as bulls would be heavier coming off cows in October so a lot of the heavy lifting could be done by the cow. If calves were 350 at weaning a housing weight of 400 should nearly be achieveable in Early December. Hitting a LW of 650 in late May would give a DW of 350 kgs and would bring the carcasse value into 1470 euro. As I said it the heifers that would be the issue. Could you kill them at 250++ in August other wise it is down the high cost route of killing before or after Christmass

390 kg dw should be minimum target for u16 bulls. Not sure if he bonus is available on bulls.

charolais0153 · 20-02-2019 1:04pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Cow would need to be pedigree to attain HE bonus. Product would not be as saleable. IMO using a milky cow LMXFR might actually achieve a highr DW at sub 16 months. I imagine that he had the cows in the herd already and just changed bulls. By changing to a LMXFR, CHXFR or SIXFR the DW of bulls might be pused up towards 350kg mark as bulls would be heavier coming off cows in October so a lot of the heavy lifting could be done by the cow. If calves were 350 at weaning a housing weight of 400 should nearly be achieveable in Early December. Hitting a LW of 650 in late May would give a DW of 350 kgs and would bring the carcasse value into 1470 euro. As I said it the heifers that would be the issue. Could you kill them at 250++ in August other wise it is down the high cost route of killing before or after Christmass

Last bull we killed was ch x si snd was 80bkgs heavier liveweight and also 80kgs heavier deadweight. Really shows how much more efficient a continental is

memorystick · 20-02-2019 4:04pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is a perception out there that the processors want E&U grade cattle. IMO it is only that a perception. They want them to fill a gap in the winter finishing system at 360 kgs DW and even at that it is not the E and U grade they want. When cattle get scarce they will flat price P and O- cattle before they will improve the upper end price. It is interesting at present they seem to be mad looking for light AA cattle and will if lads have a lot of cattle to be killed they will take these AA cattle first.

What factories are taking these AA stock because I can't get lads to come look let alone take them.

Hard Knocks · 20-02-2019 9:27pm

wrangler wrote: »

His situation I'd imagine is that his sucklers were continental and he wanted something that'd be near the spec required, He'd be my age group and a very good farmer so wasn't going to do anything radical.
He's very pleased with the way they turned out.

Local farmer did that her with AS when the scheme started & went organic too, said he never made as much money
But when his CH cows were gone there was a big drop in the quality of his calves & he didn’t do as good

Cavanjack · 20-02-2019 10:58pm

wrangler wrote: »

Is there not a meat yield advantage with the E over the P, I thought the grid was based on meat yield, I think if it was done again now the bonus should be bigger for the E and the penalty larger for the P.

If they want lighter carcasses then they should pay for them. I think if they are serious about it they should give a high base price for an r= or a r+ with a weight spec too of no more than 400kg. If you grade higher or lower than this you get penalised.
This won't happen though because they do want the heavy cattle and just don't want to pay for them.

wrangler · 20-02-2019 11:22pm

Cavanjack wrote: »

If they want lighter carcasses then they should pay for them. I think if they are serious about it they should give a high base price for an r= or a r+ with a weight spec too of no more than 400kg. If you grade higher or lower than this you get penalised.
This won't happen though because they do want the heavy cattle and just don't want to pay for them.

Isn't there a good bonus for Rs over Os, I don't know how much (i wouldn't have a lot of interest) plus QA, I think most farmers don't want the grades split again.
These are independent businesses, they set the specs, it's as simple as that.
With sheep we don't get paid over the weight limit and I know for a fact that overweight lambs go to a premium market but that's their business, once the lamb goes up the ramp it's their lamb to maximise.
Begrudging them their profit is only childish, but I weigh every week they only get gms free meat off me

Cavanjack · 21-02-2019 12:07am

wrangler wrote: »

Isn't there a good bonus for Rs over Os, I don't know how much (i wouldn't have a lot of interest) plus QA, I think most farmers don't want the grades split again.
These are independent businesses, they set the specs, it's as simple as that.
With sheep we don't get paid over the weight limit and I know for a fact that overweight lambs go to a premium market but that's their business, once the lamb goes up the ramp it's their lamb to maximise.
Begrudging them their profit is only childish, but I weigh every week they only get gms free meat off me

6 cent difference but why are u grades paid a higher price when that's what they don't want?

older by the day · 21-02-2019 12:12am

wrangler wrote: »

Cavanjack wrote: »

If they want lighter carcasses then they should pay for them. I think if they are serious about it they should give a high base price for an r= or a r+ with a weight spec too of no more than 400kg. If you grade higher or lower than this you get penalised.
This won't happen though because they do want the heavy cattle and just don't want to pay for them.

Isn't there a good bonus for Rs over Os, I don't know how much (i wouldn't have a lot of interest) plus QA, I think most farmers don't want the grades split again.
These are independent businesses, they set the specs, it's as simple as that.
With sheep we don't get paid over the weight limit and I know for a fact that overweight lambs go to a premium market but that's their business, once the lamb goes up the ramp it's their lamb to maximise.
Begrudging them their profit is only childish, but I weigh every week they only get gms free meat off me

Jays for a man that don't have a lot of interest, you get a real hard on when any posts any praise for the beef plan movement. There is a meeting in bantry tomorrow night. (Thursday night).

wrangler · 21-02-2019 12:17am

Cavanjack wrote: »

6 cent difference but why are u grades paid a higher price when that's what they don't want?

When are they saying they don't want U grades. very decent of them to pay extra fr something they don't want

wrangler · 21-02-2019 12:18am

older by the day wrote: »

Jays for a man that don't have a lot of interest, you get a real hard on when any posts any praise for the beef plan movement. There is a meeting in bantry tomorrow night. (Thursday night).

Beef farmers will hang them too, remember where you heard that :cool:

gerryirl · 21-02-2019 12:24am

wrangler wrote: »

When are they saying they don't want U grades. very decent of them to pay extra fr something they don't want

your forgetting there paying you in one hand and taking it with the other. Get 12 cent bonus and take 10 cent for them being over weight then.

Its a bit like the three card trick. They fool you into thinking your following the right one and then BANG its the wrong card and your moneys gone. Only thing farming aint a game for us all its real life

wrangler · 21-02-2019 12:46am

gerryirl wrote: »

your forgetting there paying you in one hand and taking it with the other. Get 12 cent bonus and take 10 cent for them being over weight then.

Its a bit like the three card trick. They fool you into thinking your following the right one and then BANG its the wrong card and your moneys gone. Only thing farming aint a game for us all its real life

You'll have to give them what they want, You buy a newholland, and they give you a zetor and ask you to pay same price you'd say WTF.....that's what you're doing to the processors.

gerryirl · 21-02-2019 1:11am

wrangler wrote: »

You'll have to give them what they want, You buy a newholland, and they give you a zetor and ask you to pay same price you'd say WTF.....that's what you're doing to the processors.

Sure don't I know . I'm buying new holland cattle but getting MF 20 prices not even zetor

wrangler · 21-02-2019 1:16am

gerryirl wrote: »

Sure don't I know . I'm buying new holland cattle but getting MF 20 prices not even zetor

Beef is the pit's but it's the same across Europe. future is very bleak for it

Bass Reeves · 21-02-2019 1:24am

Cavanjack wrote: »

If they want lighter carcasses then they should pay for them. I think if they are serious about it they should give a high base price for an r= or a r+ with a weight spec too of no more than 400kg. If you grade higher or lower than this you get penalised.
This won't happen though because they do want the heavy cattle and just don't want to pay for them.

They have a market for a limited number of heavier carcasses. Most go to the Contenintal market. However the issue is the steaks (sirloin, striploin ) are not suitable for any premium market. As well the cuts are too big to make suitable cuts for smaller roasting joints. It ends up being sold off as a commodity product. I agree that there should be a bonus for lighter carcasses however the weight spec will be way lower than 400kgs and the higher the grade the lower the weight as steaks are larger.

wrangler wrote: »

Isn't there a good bonus for Rs over Os, I don't know how much (i wouldn't have a lot of interest) plus QA, I think most farmers don't want the grades split again.
These are independent businesses, they set the specs, it's as simple as that.
With sheep we don't get paid over the weight limit and I know for a fact that overweight lambs go to a premium market but that's their business, once the lamb goes up the ramp it's their lamb to maximise.
Begrudging them their profit is only childish, but I weigh every week they only get gms free meat off me

They set the specs yes but the issue is that prime inspec beef is being access at really low prices. At present we are near at the price of polish and Netherlands beef for steers but the real killer is Irish Bulls are below the price for Netherlands and Polish bulls at present. If they were paying nearer the UK price for prime inspec beef grand but they are having both ways at present.

There is no appetite for changing grid differencials as it will cheapen the O grade beef that is well inspec for UK supermarket trade. They are at present accessing O- steers at 3.33/kg when you take the grid and the vat rebate into account.

Never wrestle with pigs · 21-02-2019 3:23pm

What the feck is going on. Potentially 4 thousand cattle to be exported and it's stopped because of a visa. Who's running the sh1t show. Someone needs to be held accountable for this.

Reggie. · 21-02-2019 3:28pm

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

What the feck is going on. Potentially 4 thousand cattle to be exported and it's stopped because of a visa. Who's running the sh1t show. Someone needs to be held accountable for this.

Usual bull****

Albert Johnson · 22-02-2019 12:51am

I finally took the plunge and attended a local meeting tonight, it was everything I expected and that's not a positive comment. George Orwell coined a phrase "four legs good, two legs bad" and the BPM seemed to have modified this statement to "suckler fanatics good, all others bad". The usual buzz words about dairying, Brexit and how rural Ireland is being left behind were bandied about without any sensible suggestions as to possible solutions.

The first real item discussed was the 4 movement rule and the IFA's involvement in it's inception. If and when this "rule" is revoked I struggle to see how it will be of direct benefit to the suckler producer, the marts and dairy bred stock would have more to benefit from it's reversal imo. It would however be a starting point and would show some result from there efforts thus far.

Another recurring point was that of "retail" versus "manufacturing" beef and how the markets should be priced and marketed separately. As to how this would be done wasn't elaborated on and it's a concept I don't understand. I thought that manufacturing and prime or retail beef made up different parts of the one carcass and are "two cheeks of the one arse" as it were. The point that there are two separate markets in other countries was made repeatedly although I struggle to see how the majority of suckler herd free mainland Europe could have a separate market for a product they don't produce. I thought the main message was that "good" suckler bred beef should be prioritized over the "bad" dairy bred alternative.

The focus then turned to castigating local and national TD's of all creeds over how they have let us as a sector down in recent years. Shouting into microphones and passionate speeches about what should be done come election time reached fever pitch. As with all politics the subject matter ranged to other matters as well as personal grievance's and the lunatics seemed to overrun the asylum for a period.

It was now the dairy man's turn for scorn and the dirty business of the byproduct dairy bred calf. The suggestions ranged from subsidized disposal at birth to massively increasing exports. I've already expressed my views on both suggestions in another thread but I think either are far from ideal. Disposal at birth whether subsidized or not would create a massive public backlash and live calf exports are also on shaky ground regarding welfare going forward. I believe the best solution is to let the dairy men deal with them and perhaps then the sector would be more willing to adapt a different mindset regarding calf quality.

As the floor was opened to questions the whole affair drifted more and more in disarray. The views ranged from continuing the fight for a €200 a head suckler grant, giving the dairy men the BEEP allocated money of €40 a head to dispose of calves and more absurdity that I've mentality blocked out. Brexit remained a hot topic and total ignorance of it's finer points was of no barrier to many. Que more shouting and banging chests about the "greedy" dairy men and the "Judas" like beef men who handle there by product. The subject of a Chinese buyer and marketing product was only briefly touched upon to my dismay although if like there other proposal's then I'd imagine there business plan would rival that of Jack and his magic beans

In conclusion it's a suckler man's support group as opposed to a beef producers union imo, a place for self praise and running down everyone else. I was disappointed but not surprised tbh, if that circus tonight is our one chance of salvation then I think a clearance sale is in order while it's all still worth something. That's a bleak sentiment I know but I've seen little to persuade me otherwise. I spent the tenner earmarked for membership in the chipper on the way home, it will support a beef producer somewhere and will probably do more for them than the BPM imo.

Keep Sluicing · 22-02-2019 1:38am

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I finally took the plunge and attended a local meeting tonight, it was everything I expected and that's not a positive comment. George Orwell coined a phrase "four legs good, two legs bad" and the BPM seemed to have modified this statement to "suckler fanatics good, all others bad". The usual buzz words about dairying, Brexit and how rural Ireland is being left behind were bandied about without any sensible suggestions as to possible solutions.

The first real item discussed was the 4 movement rule and the IFA's involvement in it's inception. If and when this "rule" is revoked I struggle to see how it will be of direct benefit to the suckler producer, the marts and dairy bred stock would have more to benefit from it's reversal imo. It would however be a starting point and would show some result from there efforts thus far.

Another recurring point was that of "retail" versus "manufacturing" beef and how the markets should be priced and marketed separately. As to how this would be done wasn't elaborated on and it's a concept I don't understand. I thought that manufacturing and prime or retail beef made up different parts of the one carcass and are "two cheeks of the one arse" as it were. The point that there are two separate markets in other countries was made repeatedly although I struggle to see how the majority of suckler herd free mainland Europe could have a separate market for a product they don't produce. I thought the main message was that "good" suckler bred beef should be prioritized over the "bad" dairy bred alternative.

The focus then turned to castigating local and national TD's of all creeds over how they have let us as a sector down in recent years. Shouting into microphones and passionate speeches about what should be done come election time reached fever pitch. As with all politics the subject matter ranged to other matters as well as personal grievance's and the lunatics seemed to overrun the asylum for a period.

It was now the dairy man's turn for scorn and the dirty business of the byproduct dairy bred calf. The suggestions ranged from subsidized disposal at birth to massively increasing exports. I've already expressed my views on both suggestions in another thread but I think either are far from ideal. Disposal at birth whether subsidized or not would create a massive public backlash and live calf exports are also on shaky ground regarding welfare going forward. I believe the best solution is to let the dairy men deal with them and perhaps then the sector would be more willing to adapt a different mindset regarding calf quality.

As the floor was opened to questions the whole affair drifted more and more in disarray. The views ranged from continuing the fight for a €200 a head suckler grant, giving the dairy men the BEEP allocated money of €40 a head to dispose of calves and more absurdity that I've mentality blocked out. Brexit remained a hot topic and total ignorance of it's finer points was of no barrier to many. Que more shouting and banging chests about the "greedy" dairy men and the "Judas" like beef men who handle there by product. The subject of a Chinese buyer and marketing product was only briefly touched upon to my dismay although if like there other proposal's then I'd imagine there business plan would rival that of Jack and his magic beans

In conclusion it's a suckler man's support group as opposed to a beef producers union imo, a place for self praise and running down everyone else. I was disappointed but not surprised tbh, if that circus tonight is our one chance of salvation then I think a clearance sale is in order while it's all still worth something. That's a bleak sentiment I know but I've seen little to persuade me otherwise. I spent the tenner earmarked for membership in the chipper on the way home, it will support a beef producer somewhere and will probably do more for them than the BPM imo.

Ive the very same sentiment after the meeting too. I actually left early because i thought it was such a farce.

wrangler · 22-02-2019 8:50am

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

Ive the very same sentiment after the meeting too. I actually left early because i thought it was such a farce.

There's a rotten element posting in their facebook page too. Top table were well intentioned but they're losing control now

farawaygrass · 22-02-2019 8:54am

wrangler wrote: »

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

Ive the very same sentiment after the meeting too. I actually left early because i thought it was such a farce.

There's a rotten element posting in their facebook page too. Top table were well intentioned but they're losing control now

Definitely. I said it from day one that they shouldn’t be attacking the dairy farmer, only alienating a big sector of farmers.

_Brian · 22-02-2019 8:54am

wrangler wrote: »

There's a rotten element posting in their facebook page too. Top table were well intentioned but they're losing control now

By rotten you mean anti IFA?

wrangler · 22-02-2019 9:08am

_Brian wrote: »

By rotten you mean anti IFA?

Anti everything, a couple of sensible posters had to call them off Bord Bia
Read Alberts post

charolais0153 · 02-03-2019 2:03pm

A short spin ahah

wrangler · 02-03-2019 2:29pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

A short spin ahah

That's a pity, you could've picked me up on the way...... come to think of it you could've picked a lot of people up

Don't think they got 200 either, when is it being broadcast

patsy_mccabe · 02-03-2019 3:49pm

Jeez, I hate listening to auld moaners. Still, you have to put up with it, if you give the mic to the floor. I went to the meeting in Ennis and to be fair, it wasn't that bad. Still I left early. I was fryed under an overhead heater

.
Talking to a guy as I was leaving and he was laughing at the fact that everyone was complaining about our largest buyer. He said that in any other business, you'd be taking your largest buyer out to dinner. Funny cause it's true.

White Clover · 02-03-2019 4:25pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Jeez, I hate listening to auld moaners. Still, you have to put up with it, if you give the mic to the floor. I went to the meeting in Ennis and to be fair, it wasn't that bad. Still I left early. I was fryed under an overhead heater .
Talking to a guy as I was leaving and he was laughing at the fact that everyone was complaining about our largest buyer. He said that in any other business, you'd be taking your largest buyer out to dinner. Funny cause it's true.

You would patsy, because if you were selling anything besides farm produce, you'd be setting the price.

Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Comments