Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

amacca

wrangler wrote: »

The farmers around you with no other income that you're happy enough to reduce their income, do you not see them, now that's the real mefeinism and begrudgery,
The real problem is and was that the payments weren't maximised on your farm in the nineties, farm capable of eighty cow suckler herd should have up to 50000+

what if land was bought after the nineties or the 00s? to bring the farm up to viable

what if a young farmers parents availed of a fairly paltry retirement scheme during the reference years which locked that young farmer out of building up anything during the reference years?

what if its one of those forgotten old young farmer types that just got in under the scottish derogation etc

what if an adult child couldn't avail of entitlements back then because the hadn't paid a "nominal value" for the rent of the land off their parents - i.e. they made the mistake of honestly paying up front market rate rent and not pretending they got it nearly for free and slipping the auld lad something under the counter

there are some people royally ****ed by that system imo....it can't be everyones fault for not maximising things in the 90s

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

The farmers around you with no other income that you're happy enough to reduce their income, do you not see them, now that's the real mefeinism and begrudgery,
The real problem is and was that the payments weren't maximised on your farm in the nineties, farm capable of eighty cow suckler herd should have up to 50000+

Wasn't as big then. Ihave grown it to almost 2.5 times original size.
Not one full time beef, tillage or sheep farmer in my parish bar one recluse that lives with his elderly mother and they have state pension as well. All are either in jobs, contracting or dairying.
Selling weanlings here so would have never hit 50k anyhow.

MIKEKC

Grueller wrote: »

You have some horn for the young farmer Wrangler.
I work off farm but run 80 sucklers. I am a young farmer. I get all the top ups etc.
BUT I get up at 5:45 every morning, in the yard for 6:00. Out of it at 7:50. Back in it at 5:30 to 7:30-8:00 every evening. I work 7:00 til 6:00 on Saturdays and 7:00 til dinner time most Sundays.
This is the reality for me and most young farmers around my area. Yes my father helps out by keeping an eye on cows during the day but he does not calve them and I never meet him in the yard as he only potters out about 9:30 and does a bit of pottering about.
If payments were levelled maybe we couls afford to work off farm less and actually give farming a go. No? Much easier to criticise a whole group even though the ladder has been pulled up by the older farmers.

Why do you run suckles? According to Teagasc suckles eat into your payments

Grueller

MIKEKC wrote: »

Why do you run suckles? According to Teagasc suckles eat into your payments

On average they do according to teagasc. My profit monitors show a profit. My accountant also finds one every year excluding payments.

Cavanjack

I know a man in the west who was milking 30 cows on bad land during the reference years. He has since ceased milking and his son is now suckling 25 cows with a very poor bfp. I've an uncle with 25 sucklers receiving over 20k. Where is the fairness in that. Just because the lad in the west''s old lad missed out on something 20 years ago he must suffer .

farawaygrass

I agree with you on most things wrangler but not on this one. As they say hind sights is foresight-if everyone knew back then what they know now then of course they would have maxed out. Fair enough, you don’t want to take anything of these farmers that done that, but I’m getting what I’m father built up, hardly fair. I would only love the punches to come back on the cattle if it let me build up my grants

wrangler

farawaygrass wrote: »

I agree with you on most things wrangler but not on this one. As they say hind sights is foresight-if everyone knew back then what they know now then of course they would have maxed out. Fair enough, you don’t want to take anything of these farmers that done that, but I’m getting what I’m father built up, hardly fair. I would only love the punches to come back on the cattle if it let me build up my grants

Everyone thinks that only big farmers have big payments, no one seems to see or don't want to see small farmers with above average payments/ha
I'm disappointed with the young farmer scheme, it's probably alright if it was monitored properly, some are very poor with the chance they are being given I had one of them interested in my place but I doubted his commitment and didn't deal with him.

yosemitesam1

wrangler wrote: »

The farmers around you with no other income that you're happy enough to reduce their income, do you not see them, now that's the real mefeinism and begrudgery,
The real problem is and was that the payments weren't maximised on your farm in the nineties, farm capable of eighty cow suckler herd should have up to 50000+

Putting all that aside, going forward payments are only going down unless they can be allocated against something that can justify them, so what's the point in holding onto the reference years? The environment+biodiversity are the only options to keep total payments high into the future.
Had everyone maximised things back then there would be a much bigger problem than there is now. There was never a market for that beef then or now so what is the point of not encouraging people to do what the market wants?

wrangler

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Putting all that aside, going forward payments are only going down unless they can be allocated against something that can justify them, so what's the point in holding onto the reference years? The environment+biodiversity are the only options to keep total payments high into the future.
Had everyone maximised things back then there would be a much bigger problem than there is now. There was never a market for that beef then or now so what is the point of not encouraging people to do what the market wants?

It'll probably be the same as every scheme/reform, there'll be a line drawn and if you're one side of it you'll be fine and if you're the other side you'll be f....d

bogman_bass

wrangler wrote: »

Everyone thinks that only big farmers have big payments, no one seems to see or don't want to see small farmers with above average payments/ha
I'm disappointed with the young farmer scheme, it's probably alright if it was monitored properly, some are very poor with the chance they are being given I had one of them interested in my place but I doubted his commitment and didn't deal with him.

Only the big lads are going to be affected by the €60,000 cap though.

Those that maxed their payments have gotten their return from their investment. To suggest that the next generation be hindered by it is silly.

I’m saying this as somebody with intitlements slightly over the average/Ha

Keep Sluicing

Cattlepen wrote: »

If it’s any consolation a gennet would do me!!. I see in agriland that the cap reform might be deferred for up to 3 years. That would do me grand . I’d ride the gennet around the farm twice a day laughing at the good of it all

I took over in 2011 even tho my dad still does a lot of day to day stuff. Spent 30grand on entitlements, my dad was fierce worried i was going to loose it all.
150 bullocks going to the factory each year till 4 years ago. Dropped to 120 ish. Now back to 53...... I'll eventually get that gennet! We'll be laughing cowboys then.

Dinzee Conlee

Grueller wrote: »

You have some horn for the young farmer Wrangler.
I work off farm but run 80 sucklers. I am a young farmer. I get all the top ups etc.
BUT I get up at 5:45 every morning, in the yard for 6:00. Out of it at 7:50. Back in it at 5:30 to 7:30-8:00 every evening. I work 7:00 til 6:00 on Saturdays and 7:00 til dinner time most Sundays.
This is the reality for me and most young farmers around my area. Yes my father helps out by keeping an eye on cows during the day but he does not calve them and I never meet him in the yard as he only potters out about 9:30 and does a bit of pottering about.
If payments were levelled maybe we couls afford to work off farm less and actually give farming a go. No? Much easier to criticise a whole group even though the ladder has been pulled up by the older farmers.

Not having a go Grueller - but why put in those hours?

If your current full time employer, asked you to work another 32hrs a week, for possibly not much of an increase - would you agree to it?

I know we all farm cos we like to, but is putting in the hours above really worth it?

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Not having a go Grueller - but why put in those hours?

If your current full time employer, asked you to work another 32hrs a week, for possibly not much of an increase - would you agree to it?

I know we all farm cos we like to, but is putting in the hours above really worth it?

I'd also imagine that putting in those hours you're not giving your best to your employer.
I wouldn't like to meet grueller on a friday evening

Dinzee Conlee

wrangler wrote: »

I'd also imagine that putting in those hours you're not giving your best to your employer.
I wouldn't like to meet grueller on a friday evening

Maybe...

But then I don't work near the same hours as Grueller on the farm - but I would be cranky enough too some Friday evenings

wrangler

I see BPM are still persisting in Bad Mouthing the Irish beef industry
Even have me convinced that Irish beef is sh..e.......take a bow lads

yewtree

I saw some of the videos from a meeting in ballina. It was very amateur to say the least, fella roaring nonsense into the mic. It becoming pretty clear that have no realistic plan at all

patsy_mccabe

wrangler wrote: »

I see BPM are still persisting in Bad Mouthing the Irish beef industry
Even have me convinced that Irish beef is sh..e.......take a bow lads

RobinBanks

yewtree wrote: »

I saw some of the videos from a meeting in ballina. It was very amateur to say the least, fella roaring nonsense into the mic. It becoming pretty clear that have no realistic plan at all

Did ya see the lad that questioned the plan asking if they had an actual business plan? I thought he was going to be killed for having a different opinion.

yewtree

RobinBanks wrote: »

Did ya see the lad that questioned the plan asking if they had an actual business plan? I thought he was going to be killed for having a different opinion.

they don't want any hard questions anyway. They are been used aswell by politicians and the breed societies to push their own agenda.

tractorporn

yewtree wrote: »

they don't want any hard questions anyway. They are been used aswell by politicians and the breed societies to push their own agenda.

I questioned in the WhatsApp group early on the benefit of adding randomers or people who weren't that bothered to the group and that they should concentrate on actually signing lads up. I was shot down fairly quickly by Corley

memorystick

Grueller wrote: »

You have some horn for the young farmer Wrangler.
I work off farm but run 80 sucklers. I am a young farmer. I get all the top ups etc.
BUT I get up at 5:45 every morning, in the yard for 6:00. Out of it at 7:50. Back in it at 5:30 to 7:30-8:00 every evening. I work 7:00 til 6:00 on Saturdays and 7:00 til dinner time most Sundays.
This is the reality for me and most young farmers around my area. Yes my father helps out by keeping an eye on cows during the day but he does not calve them and I never meet him in the yard as he only potters out about 9:30 and does a bit of pottering about.
If payments were levelled maybe we couls afford to work off farm less and actually give farming a go. No? Much easier to criticise a whole group even though the ladder has been pulled up by the older farmers.

Are you paying the high rate of tax? If you are, then you’re mad to keep suckers. ‘Tis the toughest way to get a few pound together to pay the taxman.

RobinBanks

yewtree wrote: »

they don't want any hard questions anyway. They are been used aswell by politicians and the breed societies to push their own agenda.

Well it was actually other farmers that were shouting at him to shut up not the Beef plan guys themselves.

older by the day

Well young farmers have an advantage, they are YOUNG.they have time to change. If payments were capped at 60. Bring Full time farmers up to a base of 20000 provided they meet certain environmental conditions. The new entrant would qualify for this too.

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

This whinge fest has to stop, QA isn't compulsory, bord bia have done a list of what the supermarkets want, farmers can sign up if they want, is it any more onerous than cross compliance

wrangler

tractorporn wrote: »

I questioned in the WhatsApp group early on the benefit of adding randomers or people who weren't that bothered to the group and that they should concentrate on actually signing lads up. I was shot down fairly quickly by Corley

Putting up politicians that support them is a mistake,Do they not know that all politicians will support you in everything you do.........as long as they're not in power :rolleyes:

Grueller

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Not having a go Grueller - but why put in those hours?

If your current full time employer, asked you to work another 32hrs a week, for possibly not much of an increase - would you agree to it?

I know we all farm cos we like to, but is putting in the hours above really worth it?

I am in the bdgp scheme so kinda tied to numbers for a while yet. I am probably going to tweak the system and reduce numbers when I get out of that scheme. I am in three years I think so don't want the penalties.

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

I'd also imagine that putting in those hours you're not giving your best to your employer.
I wouldn't like to meet grueller on a friday evening

I am my employer. I contract my services through my own company.
No bother on a Friday evening Wrangler. I am generally found asleep on the couch.

Grueller

memorystick wrote: »

Are you paying the high rate of tax? If you are, then you’re mad to keep suckers. ‘Tis the toughest way to get a few pound together to pay the taxman.

I have good off farm income so yes on the high rate of tax.
That kind of explains how I have grown the farm. I kept pumping money into stock as a young trained farmer getting 100% tax relief. That led to more sheds to depreciate. I have now reached the point where I can not afford to grow any more and continue off farm employment. This is leading to me considering a system change.
What this has all done is left me with a good money box of stock with the tax paid on it as I always kept stock values correct on the books. In fact at the moment with beef price they are probably 20% over valued.
Will I have a tax bill now? Yes but it is a fraction of what it should be because every year I write a cheque to a pension that kills the tax bill.

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

I have good off farm income so yes on the high rate of tax.
That kind of explains how I have grown the farm. I kept pumping money into stock as a young trained farmer getting 100% tax relief. That led to more sheds to depreciate. I have now reached the point where I can not afford to grow any more and continue off farm employment. This is leading to me considering a system change.
What this has all done is left me with a good money box of stock with the tax paid on it as I always kept stock values correct on the books. In fact at the moment with beef price they are probably 20% over valued.
Will I have a tax bill now? Yes but it is a fraction of what it should be because every year I write a cheque to a pension that kills the tax bill.

Defers the tax bill you mean, learning a bit about that at the moment......the hard way

grassroot1

wrangler wrote: »

This whinge fest has to stop, QA isn't compulsory, bord bia have done a list of what the supermarkets want, farmers can sign up if they want, is it any more onerous than cross compliance

It is not very easy to sell a cow without QA though so it kinda is compulsory.
If my lambs are not QA do they go into another market?
Why is it that fire exits must be marked in livestock sheds how is that relevant to QA