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Father and daughter drown at US border

13567…15

Comments

  • #102
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Danzy wrote: »
    Why don't they do what any Anarchist would do, and have daddy write a cheque.

    More like daddy getting them a job in a charity for processing refugees as far away as possible from ballsbridge at 80k a year


  • #103
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    More like daddy getting them a job in a charity for processing refugees as far away as possible from ballsbridge at 80k a year

    Yeah anyone who cares about anything is a Trustafarian


  • #104
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    I recommend people watch the documentary borderless to see what's actually happening with migrants in southern Europe. And all the ****ery going on an people profiting from it.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_fz9EW5Iw

    Just before anyone wastes time on this "documentary".... It's made by white nationalist Lauren Southern....
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Southern


  • #105
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    I have no idea what you're talking about.

    You said people only take dangerous migration routes when it's a matter of life and death, and I responded saying that's not true, many (most?) illegal immigrants are economic immigrants.


    People do not embark on long and dangerous journeys for trivial reasons. They mosly do it because life where they come from is either too dangerous or too harsh and hopeless to be bearable.



    Ask yourelf - what would it take for you to pack up as many of your belongings as you can carry, to give thousands of euro to someone you know is a criminal, who you know might just kill you and rob your body but who says he can get you over the border?



    How bad would things have to be before that option seems like the best chance you have for a better life?


  • #106
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    batgoat wrote: »
    Just before anyone wastes time on this "documentary".... It's made by white nationalist Lauren Southern....
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Southern

    If you're against it people should defo watch it.


  • #107
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,125 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Yeah anyone who cares about anything is a Trustafarian

    They don't care, it is just the cause of the day for them.

    Others deal with the fallout and consequences and they go in their privileged bubble.


  • #108
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Yeah anyone who cares about anything is a Trustafarian

    “Caring” is easy if it’s costless. I suggested already that we use private housing for refugees rather than detention centres, Germany does something like that. In that case we should increase our intake.

    Any other solution is either a detention centre or social housing - which costs people on waiting list, or private rentals which keeps rent up.


  • #109
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    If you're against it people should defo watch it.

    She attempted a blockade against a NGO ship that was rescuing shipwrecked refugees. She is scum of the highest order. Most recently famous for being banned from the UK... So she's unlikely to have made an unbiased documentary given her views...


  • #110
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    batgoat wrote: »
    Just before anyone wastes time on this "documentary".... It's made by white nationalist Lauren Southern....
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Southern

    So you're a fan?


  • #111
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Yeah, people move to escape poverty, that's half of my point?

    You denied people would be coming for lattes.
    Along with making serious efforts to mitigate the impact of climate change, efforts need to be made to address the massive, massive global wealth inequalities. This would mean most people could live reasonably comfortably in their own countries, not trek hundreds or thousands of miles with small children just to live in a single room and work a minimum wage job when they get there.

    The mechanism for that is economic growth, aid doesn’t seem to work.

    Fundamentally, the comfort of our lives is built on their poverty.

    No it’s not. Economics isn’t a zero sum game. Your solution to open borders will massively decrease the wages of people in the west but maintain profits. It’s a disasterous solution

    (btw, why on earth you felt the need to say you 'guarantee I am probably doing more on climate change than you' is baffling. You know nothing whatsoever about what I do or don't do, and I know nothing about you either.)

    I said probably because most Green Party supporters or green sounding people are hypocrites. Car driving, long haul flying, old house living, many children producing hypocrites. And I’m none of those.

    Also I’m working on renewable technology. Not a scold though.


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  • #112
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    I’m not great on the whole world affairs politics and policies, should the UN not be looking into what is happening along that border region and how these people are being so so badly treated.


  • #113
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    batgoat wrote: »
    She attempted a blockade against a NGO ship that was rescuing shipwrecked refugees. She is scum of the highest order. Most recently famous for being banned from the UK... So she's unlikely to have made an unbiased documentary given her views...

    The NGOs should f off. They are facilitating human trafficking.

    People can watch and make their own minds up. We dont need you jumping in with your lefty nonsense.


  • #114
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    B0jangles wrote: »
    People do not embark on long and dangerous journeys for trivial reasons. They mosly do it because life where they come from is either too dangerous or too harsh and hopeless to be bearable.

    I do not agree, so let's agree to disagree. I know you have strong opinions so we'll just go round in circles.


  • #115
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Yeah anyone who cares about anything is a Trustafarian

    idk

    seems that a lot of the people who consider themselves the moral imperators of our society do most of their work online telling everyone else what they ought to be doing about it

    and telling them how horrible they are when they demur or disagree

    trustafarian or not, the phenomenon of the online activist is not achieving what it likes to think it is

    lecturing other people on what they should care about is the barest minimum egojerk possible in 2019


  • #116
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    The NGOs should f off. They are facilitating human trafficking.

    People can watch and make their own minds up. We dont need you jumping in with your lefty nonsense.


    I've simply pointed out that the video was made by a prominent white supremacist. Also, so are you saying they should have let the shipwrecked people drown?


  • #117
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    I said probably because most Green Party supporters or green sounding people are hypocrites. Car driving, long haul flying, old house living, many children producing hypocrites. And I’m none of those.

    Also I’m working on renewable technology. Not a scold though.

    Why do people brand Green voters like this? I wont be having any kids, never owned a car, live in a small 2 bed terrace house which I share with another, am working class, live in a working class area, cycle to work... Ok I fly to Europe once or twice a year you got me there.


  • #118
    SexBobomb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭SexBobomb


    batgoat wrote: »
    I've simply pointed out that the video was made by a prominent white supremacist.

    Don't know the woman or her work, you could be right, but I feel this tag has been diluted and thrown around so much the last few years its almost lost all meaning.


  • #119
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I wonder if wealth could ever be better distributed throughout the world or if it’s just going end in chaos.

    The best way to spread wealth throughout the world is through education.
    What you need is "Ivy league colleges" in the undeveloped world and mechanisms to ensure that everyone has a chance of an education on a par with the western world.

    The status quo favours all aspects of life in western countries and hence why everyone wants to get here.


  • #120
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    batgoat wrote: »
    I've simply pointed out that the video was made by a prominent white supremacist. Also, so are you saying they should have let the shipwrecked people drown?


    Who put the NGOs In charge of search and rescue for migrants? They can do what they like when in Intenational water but people were entitled to protest against them when docked in Italy. I see yesterday the captain of the sea watch threatened to enter Italian waters. The Italian navy should blow a hole in it if that happens.

    NGOs dont get to dictate immigration policy. And the two fellas locked up waiting trial for human traffic should be dealt with in the harshest way.


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  • #121
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    B0jangles wrote: »
    People do not embark on long and dangerous journeys for trivial reasons. They mosly do it because life where they come from is either too dangerous or too harsh and hopeless to be bearable.



    Ask yourelf - what would it take for you to pack up as many of your belongings as you can carry, to give thousands of euro to someone you know is a criminal, who you know might just kill you and rob your body but who says he can get you over the border?



    How bad would things have to be before that option seems like the best chance you have for a better life?

    New teeth from the NHS. Thats why Alan Kurdi died. His father's vanity.


  • #122
    Granadino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 729 ✭✭✭Granadino


    Did anyone see this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS8kLsFys9c


  • #123
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    SexBobomb wrote: »
    Don't know the woman or her work, you could be right, but I feel this tag has been diluted and thrown around so much the last few years its almost lost all meaning.

    I would recommend giving the Wikipedia article on her a read. She favours a white ethnostate and is closely associated with the organisers of the Charlottesville March. Her ban from the UK is for being a prominent racist.


  • #124
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    batgoat wrote: »
    I would recommend giving the Wikipedia article on her a read. She favours a white ethnostate and is closely associated with the organisers of the Charlottesville March.

    What kind of white supremacist openly dates black and Muslim men?


  • #125
    zom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    Is opening the borders and turning USA in to same kip as Mexico really the best option?


  • #126
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    I’m happy enough with a change in Irish demographics, an increase to 10M or so of all ethnicities and increased refugee intake provided that private or surplus housing is primarily used.

    We should also index link the public sectors pay rises to the wages of the bottom 20 percentile.

    That’s fairly liberal on this I think. However to the left and libertarian right are the radicals demanding no borders. The problem with that if somebody wants to come here because he is on $1 an hour and he wants $15 an hour (generally people use dollars for this) then if we let everybody in who wants that into a country of 4 million or so then everybody unskilled is on $1 an hour.

    Then there’s rent and housing.


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  • #127
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    zom wrote: »
    Is opening the borders and turning USA in to same kip as Mexico really the best option?

    Obviously not, the photo just showed us that these poor people are human too. Should we just continue to allow them to die in the med and in Mexico or should we be doing something about it to help? It's only going to get worse.


  • #128
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    I’m happy enough with a change in Irish demographics, an increase to 10M or so of all ethnicities and increased refugee intake provided that private or surplus housing is primarily used.

    We should also index link the public sectors pay rises to the wages of the bottom 20 percentile.

    That’s fairly liberal on this I think. However to the left and libertarian right are the radicals demanding no borders. The problem with that if somebody wants to come here because he is on $1 an hour and he wants $15 an hour (generally people use dollars for this) then if we let everybody in who wants that into a country of 4 million or so then everybody unskilled is on $1 an hour.

    Then there’s rent and housing.

    I don't particularly want to let any unskilled Economic African migrants in, I just would like to live in a world where there isn't such a scramble to get out of the sh*thole they come from, and I hope we can help them in their own countries so that staying isn't such a bad option.


  • #129
    antix80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    The horrifying picture that was released is really heartbreaking. The daughter still has her arm around Dad. Not what I expected to see first thing in the morning.
    I think we will be seeing a lot more of this in Europe and USA going forward. Like that Syrian boy found dead on the beach. What are we in rich countries supposed to do? Of course they know it’s illegal to enter these countries and the risks involved but they are so desperate for a better life they’ll keep coming. Is there any solution to the constant stream of desperate immigrants? I fear it will get a lot worse in the coming years as resources dwindle and the climate crisis worsens.
    Not for the feint hearted

    https://www.thejournal.ie/us-mexico-immigration-photo-4697766-Jun2019/

    That man killed his daughter. She was safe in Mexico. Asylum is Mexico would have been a better life. Trying to illegal enter the US was motivated by greed. Now he's dead and his daughter's dead and the rest of the family won't be using them to enter the US illegally.

    Donald Trump is trying to stop scenes like this by stopping illegal immigration. He is reinforcing border security along the US-Mexico border, he is sending troops to the border, and he convinced Mexico to send their troops to the border.


  • #130
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    What kind of white supremacist openly dates black and Muslim men?

    One who pushes The Great Replacement conspiracy and has produced videos on a white genocide in Europe... Anyway, gonna leave it there at this stage, your cited documentary is not credible and frankly diverting from the tragedy that this thread is about.


  • #131
    This is it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,684 ✭✭✭This is it


    Poor kid.


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  • #132
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    I’m happy enough with a change in Irish demographics, an increase to 10M or so of all ethnicities and increased refugee intake provided that private or surplus housing is primarily used.

    We ain't living to see 10 million on this island thank f**k.
    It will be our children and grandchildren that will be dealing with. I really dont see us reaching them numbers for a century or two. Enough time to actually sort the place out were barely coping with the population as it is.


  • #133
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    We ain't living to see 10 million on this island thank f**k.
    It will be our children and grandchildren that will be dealing with. I really dont see us reaching them numbers for a century or two. Enough time to actually sort the place out were barely coping with the population as it is.

    Why would we ever want to reach those numbers? The country is already bereft of any forests and wildlife we ever had due to human influence and we have 6.5 million cows right now. We should be looking to reduce our population in my opinion but that's an unpopular view.


  • #134
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Why would we ever want to reach those numbers? The country is already bereft of any forests and wildlife we ever had due to human influence and we have 6.5 million cows right now. We should be looking to reduce our population in my opinion but that's an unpopular view.

    Me personally, I'd never want those numbers. The Irish government is too incompetent to be dealing with that amount of people.


  • #135
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    I’m happy enough with a change in Irish demographics, an increase to 10M or so of all ethnicities and increased refugee intake provided that private or surplus housing is primarily used.

    We should also index link the public sectors pay rises to the wages of the bottom 20 percentile.

    That’s fairly liberal on this I think. However to the left and libertarian right are the radicals demanding no borders. The problem with that if somebody wants to come here because he is on $1 an hour and he wants $15 an hour (generally people use dollars for this) then if we let everybody in who wants that into a country of 4 million or so then everybody unskilled is on $1 an hour.

    Then there’s rent and housing.

    Why do you favour doubling the population?
    What's your thinking on this.. What are the benefits, socially, economically and in terms of consumption and environmentalism?


  • #136
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    So many incorrect and ignorant comments in this thread, it is not worth even attempting to put things straight.


  • #137
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Every single white American is there because they or their ancestors left their home for a better life. Amazing how they hate people doing the same thing so much.


  • #138
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I don't particularly want to let any unskilled Economic African migrants in, I just would like to live in a world where there isn't such a scramble to get out of the sh*thole they come from, and I hope we can help them in their own countries so that staying isn't such a bad option.

    Probably safe to say that many citizens here would agree with that sentiment. Helping people (particularly younger) to stay in their own countries and for them to work towards making better societies there is preferable.

    But at same time, who are we to pontificate when so many Irish citizens have gone overseas over the last couple of centuries, to seek a better life.


  • #139
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,105 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    These threads always bring up the absolute worst in society. They quite literally drag up the dregs of boards. People who nearly jump for joy a this stuff.

    Smug disgusting comments dotted throughout this.


    Depressing stuff, im not sure how you folks are in your day to day existence but it must be quite sad all things considered if this is how you go on.


  • #140
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Probably safe to say that many citizens here would agree with that sentiment. Helping people (particularly younger) to stay in their own countries and for them to work towards making better societies there is preferable.

    But at same time, who are we to pontificate when so many Irish citizens have gone overseas over the last couple of centuries, to seek a better life.

    In fairness, we're still here, our ancestors stayed :D
    I know, who are we indeed. But at some stage it's too much and more and more will keep coming and that's going to cause serious unrest.


  • #141
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    But at same time, who are we to pontificate when so many Irish citizens have gone overseas over the last couple of centuries, to seek a better life.

    How many more times do I have to read tripe like this. We do not owe anyone anything. The fact Irish people emmigrated has sweet fa to do with this. We are talking about illegall immigration here.


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  • #142
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,105 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    How many more times do I have to read tripe like this. We do not owe anyone anything. The fact Irish people emmigrated has sweet fa to do with this. We are talking about illegall immigration here.



    Your posts come across with Glee,

    Have you considered seeing someone about that?


    I mean honestly. There is something not quite right if these are your first reactions to such an image.


  • #143
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    listermint wrote: »
    Your posts come across with Glee,

    Have you considered seeing someone about that?


    I mean honestly. There is something not quite right if these are your first reactions to such an image.

    I haven't even seen the image mate. Worst thing I ever seen was a child cut in half and squashed by a lorry. I think I've been desensitised since then.


  • #144
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    How many more times do I have to read tripe like this. We do not owe anyone anything. The fact Irish people emmigrated has sweet fa to do with this. We are talking about illegall immigration here.

    Whether we owe anything or not doesn't really matter. The wave of immigrants coming to Europe is going to overwhelm everything eventually, we have to do something. I don't want to see people dying at sea or in Mexico, the rich nations are rich enough to do something about it, that doesn't mean giving them all a room in Bob Geldof's house either.


  • #145
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,125 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    We ain't living to see 10 million on this island thank f**k.
    It will be our children and grandchildren that will be dealing with. I really dont see us reaching them numbers for a century or two. Enough time to actually sort the place out were barely coping with the population as it is.

    Most of our problems are the result of the severe under population of most of the country.


  • #146
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,105 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    I haven't even seen the image mate.

    I dont believe that for a second.

    Sorry. But no ive seen all your comments , you opened it you saw it. You can try wrangle around the subject matter. But a human specifically someone who won the lottery of life to be born into Ireland with all its flaws but so so many benefits . If your first reaction to this is to post in the manner you do. Well then id suggest discussing it with someone.


  • #147
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Danzy wrote: »
    Most of our problems are the result of the severe under population of most of the country.

    I think you mean a dispersed population, which is due to poor planning, not under population


  • #148
    Jupiter Mulligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Jupiter Mulligan


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Obviously not, the photo just showed us that these poor people are human too. Should we just continue to allow them to die in the med and in Mexico or should we be doing something about it to help? It's only going to get worse.


    Your last sentence is incomplete. The words "irrespective of what we do" should be appended either to the start or end.


  • #149
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    How many more times do I have to read tripe like this. We do not owe anyone anything. The fact Irish people immigrated has sweet fa to do with this. We are talking about illegall immigration here.

    It's people in dire circumstances that have reached a point where risking their lives seems like the best way to survive. Sounds pretty akin to the Irish tbh.


  • #150
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,125 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Dog Man Star wrote: »
    So many incorrect and ignorant comments in this thread, it is not worth even attempting to put things straight.

    What a loss to us all that your lordship will not mount the pulpit and preach to the masses.


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  • #151
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Whether we owe anything or not doesn't really matter. The wave of immigrants coming to Europe is going to overwhelm everything eventually, we have to do something. I don't want to see people dying at sea or in Mexico, the rich nations are rich enough to do something about it, that doesn't mean giving them all a room in Bob Geldof's house either.

    I agree but that tired old "we emigrated" ****e. Has no bearing on this situation.


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