Father and daughter drown at US border

Thelonious Monk

The horrifying picture that was released is really heartbreaking. The daughter still has her arm around Dad. Not what I expected to see first thing in the morning.
I think we will be seeing a lot more of this in Europe and USA going forward. Like that Syrian boy found dead on the beach. What are we in rich countries supposed to do? Of course they know it’s illegal to enter these countries and the risks involved but they are so desperate for a better life they’ll keep coming. Is there any solution to the constant stream of desperate immigrants? I fear it will get a lot worse in the coming years as resources dwindle and the climate crisis worsens.
Not for the feint hearted

https://www.thejournal.ie/us-mexico-immigration-photo-4697766-Jun2019/

Boxing.Fan

It's not our problem. The media are manipulating people once again like they did with the Syrian child.

Thelonious Monk

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

It's not our problem.

Neither was the holocaust or the Berlin blockade

riemann

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Neither was the holocaust or the Berlin blockade

Exactly, and they sorted themselves out.

Best not to get involved.

Human trafficking should not be encouraged.

correction

Jesus. That's a heartbreaking picture.

Thelonious Monk

riemann wrote: »

Exactly, and they sorted themselves out.

Best not to get involved.

Human trafficking should not be encouraged.

The food airlifted itself into Berlin? Camps liberated themselves?
It will be our problem quite soon when millions start arriving at Europe’s shores.

Dingaan

Didn't the Democrats say that there wasn't a crisis at the southern border? They really are delusional if this kind of horrific stuff is happening.

pjohnson

riemann wrote: »

Exactly, and they sorted themselves out.

Bahahaha jesus didn't take long to jump the shark. I knew the saddo's would flock to this like the syria boy but bloody hell.

Plumbthedepths

Thelonious Monk wrote:

Neither was the holocaust or the Berlin blockade

The man in question put himself and his daughter in harm's way by choice, the victims of the Holocaust and residents of Berlin had no choice. Are we to be blackmailed by irresponsible behaviour?

Bob Harris

I'm sure I'll see the picture somewhere but I won't be clicking on the link for a look.

Boxing.Fan

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The food airlifted itself into Berlin? Camps liberated themselves?
It will be our problem quite soon when millions start arriving at Europe’s shores.

I think Germany could do with another million migrants.

Thelonious Monk

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The man in question put himself and his daughter in harm's way by choice, the victims of the Holocaust and residents of Berlin had no choice. Are we to be blackmailed by irresponsible behaviour?

How do you know they had a choice? Utter desperation and wanting a better life for his child I would imagine.

Thelonious Monk

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Photo reminds me of that Syrian child on the beach.

Massive outrage amongst people, and offers to take in Syrian refugees in Ireland and abroad. Then when the time came the people that had pledged to accommodate the refugees made up excuses as to why they couldn’t.

Who said they’d take people in and then made excuses? Did this actually happen? Not doubting it but some examples would be good.

Plumbthedepths

Thelonious Monk wrote:

How do you know they had a choice? Utter desperation and wanting a better life for his child I would imagine.

Getting into a fast moving river with a 23 month old is choice unless someone stood behind him with a weapon forcing him. Wanting is not the same as no choice.
As an aside the father of the Syrian boy washed up on a beach survived the family were residents of Turkey at the time. This photo is intended to blackmail the US to change its policies. Not going to happen.

Gimme A Pound

I never understood people being so cynical and edgy regarding the Syrian boy. Often the same people who pretend to be all outraged by abortion extremely early on.

But I find comparisons between the US-Mexico border control to the Holocaust dreadfully dishonest. And in poor taste.

is_that_so

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Photo reminds me of that Syrian child on the beach.

Massive outrage amongst people, and offers to take in Syrian refugees in Ireland and abroad. Then when the time came the people that had pledged to accommodate the refugees made up excuses as to why they couldn’t.

Photos actually don't do much other than provide a very temporary focus. In the Syrian case it was little more than a reminder of the human tragedy whereas this one keeps attention on Trump's callous efforts to retain the presidency at any cost. The US are entitled to protect their borders but don't much care that a lot of the led to this mass migration have arisen out of US policies and regional behaviour.

Love_BBC

You never see anyone calling out those taking pictures of dead people. Where's the respect?

Plumbthedepths

Love_BBC wrote:

You never see anyone calling out those taking pictures of dead people. Where's the respect?

Respect takes a poor second when an agenda is at play.

is_that_so

Love_BBC wrote: »

You never see anyone calling out those taking pictures of dead people. Where's the respect?

Journalists record events. You can't really pick and choose which ones should or should not qualify.

padd b1975

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

I never understood people being so cynical and edgy regarding the Syrian boy.

Can you remember his name without using Google?

I can't.

RocketRaccoon

Well he died knowing he also killed his daughter, nobody to blame but himself.

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Respect takes a poor second when an agenda is at play.

Indeed, we all have agendas.

Thelonious Monk

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

I never understood people being so cynical and edgy regarding the Syrian boy. Often the same people who pretend to be all outraged by abortion extremely early on.

But I find comparisons between the US-Mexico border control to the Holocaust dreadfully dishonest. And in poor taste.

I was trying to make the point that people intervened to stop suffering and atrocities in the past. I’m not pro open borders or anything but we all know this is going to get worse and worse in US and Europe. What are we going to do, machine gun them all down as they try to enter? It’s gping to be a total sh*tshow, especially in Europe.

is_that_so

padd b1975 wrote: »

Can you remember his name without using Google?

I can't.

That Google's fault! We retain little knowledge these days.

Tokyo

Mod: Moved from AH > CA

Omackeral

This 7 min video gives an idea of why the immigrants do what they do and how the border patrol agents on the Rio Grande have to deal with them. There's nothing graphic but shows a human side of things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8bgAcvMaXE

mirwillbeback

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Well he died knowing he also killed his daughter, nobody to blame but himself.

what a wonderful individual you are, the world is blessed to have you in it

Boxing.Fan

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I was trying to make the point that people intervened to stop suffering and atrocities in the past. I’m not pro open borders or anything but we all know this is going to get worse and worse in US and Europe. What are we going to do, machine gun them all down as they try to enter? It’s gping to be a total sh*tshow, especially in Europe.

Tighten external borders and any that arrive send them back. Europe cant be expected to sort out the 3rd worlds problems. Let them apply legally through the proper channels. They dont have some god given right to come to Europe. We dont owe them anything.

is_that_so

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

Tighten external borders and any that arrive send them back. Europe cant be expected to sort out the 3rd worlds problems. Let them apply legally through the proper channels. They dont have some god given right to come to Europe. We dont owe them anything.

So get the 50K illegal Paddies to the US back as well?

OMM 0000

Dingaan wrote: »

Didn't the Democrats say that there wasn't a crisis at the southern border? They really are delusional if this kind of horrific stuff is happening.

Around 100k people getting arrested each month at the border, so you can imagine how many must be getting through?

The Democrats' solution appears to be open borders (AOC recently called for ICE to be disbanded and border patrol to be defunded), but that is beyond delusional. Do these idiots have no idea how many thousands of people want revenge on the US for all the bombings, government toppling, and invading they've done? Open the border and you're guaranteeing regular terrorist attacks. Of course, you're also guaranteeing the working class people have to compete with illegals for jobs, and the lowering of wages due to illegals willing to work for peanuts.

I hate to say it but Trump is on the right track with his solution - make the border very difficult to penetrate so people no longer see it as a viable way into the US.

I'd love to see all the US companies moving their manufacturing to Mexico and its neighbours. Help improve those economies instead of sending everything to Asia. It would help with the crisis - give people hope their own countries are getting their **** together.

Boxing.Fan

is_that_so wrote: »

So get the 50K illegal Paddies to the US back as well?

100%. Why do people always bring up this argument? An illegal is an illegal. Doesn't matter where you are from.

lawred2

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

It's not our problem. The media are manipulating people once again like they did with the Syrian child.

Nice. Real nice.

Love_BBC

is_that_so wrote: »

Journalists record events. You can't really pick and choose which ones should or should not qualify.

When was the last time a journo took a picture of a murdered person or car crash victim?

Thelonious Monk

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

Tighten external borders and any that arrive send them back. Europe cant be expected to sort out the 3rd worlds problems. Let them apply legally through the proper channels. They dont have some god given right to come to Europe. We dont owe them anything.

Maybe we do owe them something given how Europe exploited Africa for so long. Anyway it’s impossible to control European borders. Too vast. I just wonder how it will be dealt with as the situation escalates.

is_that_so

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

100%. Why do people always bring up this argument? An illegal is an illegal. Doesn't matter where you are from.

Some posters look like they are selective about their illegals. Just checking we're not going down another route.

Kivaro

The White House requested $4.5 billion in emergency border funds in order to handle the huge numbers of economic migrants appearing on their southern borders. The Democratic controlled congress finally approved that bill last night. Immigration authorities and support services at the border are overwhelmed with the migration influx and this money will be used to provide services to adults and children, including legal representation.

$4.5 billion is a substantial amount of money. Opening the borders like Merkel did to Europe is not an option, because it is just plain insanity.

is_that_so

Love_BBC wrote: »

When was the last time a journo took a picture of a murdered person or car crash victim?

Where's the story in either of those?

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The horrifying picture that was released is really heartbreaking. The daughter still has her arm around Dad. Not what I expected to see first thing in the morning.
I think we will be seeing a lot more of this in Europe and USA going forward. Like that Syrian boy found dead on the beach. What are we in rich countries supposed to do? Of course they know it’s illegal to enter these countries and the risks involved but they are so desperate for a better life they’ll keep coming. Is there any solution to the constant stream of desperate immigrants? I fear it will get a lot worse in the coming years as resources dwindle and the climate crisis worsens.
Not for the feint hearted

https://www.thejournal.ie/us-mexico-immigration-photo-4697766-Jun2019/

Hundreds die every year crossing the mediteranean to get into Europe. We should have their pictures also.

Yes, there is a crisis, but yes, people are being emotionally manipulated through media to a sinister end.

c.p.w.g.w

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

I never understood people being so cynical and edgy regarding the Syrian boy. Often the same people who pretend to be all outraged by abortion extremely early on.

But I find comparisons between the US-Mexico border control to the Holocaust dreadfully dishonest. And in poor taste.

That's Syrian boys body was staged for the famous photo.

PS don't believe the death was staged, only the positioning of the boys body for a better more impactful image

is_that_so

Kivaro wrote: »

The White House requested $4.5 billion in emergency border funds in order to handle the huge numbers of economic migrants appearing on their southern borders. The Democratic controlled congress finally approved that bill last night. Immigration authorities and support services at the border are overwhelmed with the migration influx and this money will be used to provide services to adults and children, including legal representation.

$4.5 billion is a substantial amount of money. Opening the borders like Merkel did to Europe is not an option, because it is just plain insanity.

The WH wants that money to build a wall, that's their solution. Should be ours too according to Trump!

weldoninhio

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

It's not our problem. The media are manipulating people once again like they did with the Syrian child.

100%, it is propaganda, the same as the child who had a perfectly safe life in Turkey, who drowned because of his fathers vanity, who somehow became a poster child for people fleeing war.

is_that_so

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

That's Syrian boys body was staged for the famous photo.

Ah, is the Katie Hopkins claim?

weldoninhio

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Who said they’d take people in and then made excuses? Did this actually happen? Not doubting it but some examples would be good.

Lily Allen immediately springs to mind.

weldoninhio

padd b1975 wrote: »

Can you remember his name without using Google?

I can't.

Alan Kurdi or similar comes to mind.

c.p.w.g.w

is_that_so wrote: »

Ah, is the Katie Hopkins claim?

Sorry I hit post to early. The boy certainly died, and on the beach. But I believe the body had been repositioned for a better shot.

Boxing.Fan

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Maybe we do owe them something given how Europe exploited Africa for so long. Anyway it’s impossible to control European borders. Too vast. I just wonder how it will be dealt with as the situation escalates.

Ireland didnt exploit anyone. And we are very far removed from the med. The only reason 3rd world migrants/refugees are coming here is for welfare. They should never make it to this rock on the edge of Europe. But unfortunately people are facilitating them.

heartbreaking photo

problem that wont be solved by sympathy or good intentions but id see no reason to be callous about it either

the world is a hard place and always has been, reacting in shock as if good policy decisions are made that way would merely demonstrate an unsuitability for making such decisions

besides, the border with the US isnt and shouldnt be a major priority for us

just because the world media is now able to beam every misery to our phones doesnt make us any more or less responsible than before.

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

Hundreds die every year crossing the mediteranean to get into Europe. We should have their pictures also.

Yes, there is a crisis, but yes, people are being emotionally manipulated through media to a sinister end.

We get pictures of upturned boats and migrants in the med all the time.

Kivaro

is_that_so wrote: »

The WH wants that money to build a wall, that's their solution. Should be ours too according to Trump!

You are completely wrong with your assertion. This money has nothing to do with the wall. You know that, but you throw it out to muddy the waters.
Then again, you are the one who keeps bringing up the 50K illegal Irish to derail threads on migration. Extremely disingenuous, but not surprising.

Thelonious Monk

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

Ireland didnt exploit anyone. And we are very far removed from the med. The only reason 3rd world migrants/refugees are coming here is for welfare. They should never make it to this rock on the edge of Europe. But unfortunately people are facilitating them.

We didn’t but we are now part of a super power that did.

Boxing.Fan

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We get pictures of upturned boats and migrants in the med all the time.

Why dont we get pictures of European people butchered in terrorist attacks?