American response

Stacksofwacks · 04-04-2020 11:49am #1

Trump just said at the latest briefing.. you guys should probably wear masks but I wont be wearing a mask..at what stage does this go beyond a black comedy, 1500 dead in the last 24 hours and this is what he has to say for himself..Jesus Christ

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Downlinz · 04-04-2020 11:51am

They're showing themselves as the most mismanaged country on the planet. When all is said and done they may have more cases and deaths than every other country combined.

The American people have paid a terrible price for electing Trump.

Wibbs · 04-04-2020 12:08pm

Downlinz wrote: »

They're showing themselves as the most mismanaged country on the planet. When all is said and done they may have more cases and deaths than every other country combined.

The American people have paid a terrible price for electing Trump.

Trump is but an obvious symptom of a particular political and cultural problem with America dealing with something like this. Even if [insert OK leader here] was running the show their lack of socialised healthcare, their level of state independence, their governments and cultural ties to the "Market" and their dug in deep sense of individualism(normally a good thing) would still cause major issues when it comes to an epidemic. This was seen as far back as the 1918 pandemic. Individual states and cities took different approaches, which led to different outcomes. One city closed schools and decreed social distancing and their curve flattened and their outcome was much better than other cities.

Totalitarian centralised states like China will tend to fair much better in such epidemics, if and when they act to curb them. Cultures that are more community based than individualistic do better too. Taiwan seems to have fared best of all so far, having both the community thing and the top down thing in place. Europe is somewhere in the middle on this in general, though you will still have "rogue" actors like the UK initially and Sweden currently who will buck the general trend.

Stacksofwacks · 04-04-2020 12:15pm

Obvious weakness in a hyper capitalist system, so many moving parts(apparently even middle men are selling and profiting from govt imported masks and gear) wheras in a more socialist system its all hands on deck in this such crisis

osarusan · 04-04-2020 12:16pm

We are seeing something similar there to Europe in how different states/countries are taking different approaches and reacting more quickly or slowly, and how these individuals power limits the power at Federal/EU level.

Lack of US internal borders just adds to the fire also. F**ked up healthcare system multiplies it all massively.

Plus Trump's "it'll be grand" total incompetence at listening to others or acknowledging that anybody else knows more than him about anything.

Blueshoe · 04-04-2020 12:17pm

None of you have a clue what you are talking about unless you watch "get me Roger Stone"

MadYaker · 04-04-2020 12:19pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

None of you have a clue what you are talking about unless you watch "get me Roger Stone"

I watched it. It was tough as Stone is incredibly annoying to listen to but it’s a good watch. Not sure how it’s relevant here though.

It’s probably going to be worse than Italy

BanditLuke · 04-04-2020 12:21pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Trump just said at the latest briefing.. you guys should probably wear masks but I wont be wearing a mask..at what stage does this go beyond a black comedy, 1500 dead in the last 24 hours and this is what he has to say for himself..Jesus Christ

The man is obviously mentally unstable but then again so are many many Americans. The bizarre thing is his numbers are way up since this outbreak begun.

Stacksofwacks · 04-04-2020 12:21pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

None of you have a clue what you are talking about unless you watch "get me Roger Stone"

I know who Roger Stone is, it makes me glad that Trump is President cos it could be a hell of alot lot worse looking at the prominent characters on the American right

Blueshoe · 04-04-2020 12:29pm

MadYaker wrote: »

I watched it. It was tough as Stone is incredibly annoying to listen to but it’s a good watch. Not sure how it’s relevant here though.

It’s probably going to be worse than Italy

I don't know. I watched it last night and it just came to mind. What a horrible POS that man is. He's dangerous too. What a sh1t show of a country

Harry Palmr · 04-04-2020 12:42pm

The USA is the only country in the developed world where the potential for insurrection is not only possible but probable if the ****e really hits the fan - the militias are just itching for it all to kick off - shooting looters first then the police when they try to stop any expansive behavior.

Stacksofwacks · 04-04-2020 1:00pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The USA is the only country in the developed world where the potential for insurrection is not only possible but probable if the ****e really hits the fan - the militias are just itching for it all to kick off - shooting looters first then the police when they try to stop any expansive behavior.

These so called alt-right hard asses would get their asses handed to them by the US military and go crying home to Mom. Bunch of cowards, all talk

Harry Palmr · 04-04-2020 1:09pm

Is is where is problem lies.

https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/post/idaho-anti-government-activists-split-coronavirus-emergency-orders#stream/0

The USA is a country where gun shops are considered "essential" retail

all about the mane · 04-04-2020 1:11pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Trump just said at the latest briefing.. you guys should probably wear masks but I wont be wearing a mask..at what stage does this go beyond a black comedy, 1500 dead in the last 24 hours and this is what he has to say for himself..Jesus Christ

I thought his ‘model’ comment was particularly classy. The man just doesn’t give a sh1t. A brilliant trait for a president. Well done USA!

Stacksofwacks · 04-04-2020 1:13pm

all about the mane wrote: »

I thought his ‘model’ comment was particularly classy. The man just doesn’t give a sh1t. A brilliant trait for a president. Well done USA!

Ya tough guy isn't he

lord quackinton · 04-04-2020 1:17pm

Currently America is not that bad compared to most countries even Ireland
We have more deaths per population at moment
Let’s hold off on the anti American anti trump nonsense until end of the month at least
Why people are attacking trump at moment is very sad to see, almost a joy from the death numbers
Creepy stuff

all about the mane · 04-04-2020 1:19pm

lord quackinton wrote: »

Currently America is not that bad compared to most countries even Ireland
We have more deaths per population at moment
Let’s hold off on the anti American anti trump nonsense until end of the month at least
Why people are attacking trump at moment is very sad to see, almost a joy from the death numbers
Creepy stuff

Not attacking him over the numbers. Attacking him for his vile attitude to the whole thing.

piplip87 · 04-04-2020 1:21pm

Was watching CNN last night. Some churches in the states are still open. The interviewer interviewed some people leaving and they are just bat**** crazy.

"I live in the blood of Jesus, I will not catch the Virus was one response. "

It's hard to level all the blame on Trump when you have governors who are born again and will give exemptions for religious gatherings.

Stacksofwacks · 04-04-2020 1:25pm

all about the mane wrote: »

Not attacking him over the numbers. Attacking him for his vile attitude to the whole thing.

The numbers are bloody horrendous, almost twice the cases of the next country, most amount of deaths and they had hindsight and weeks to prepare and they still aren't in lockdown with the federal govt hiding in plain sight. Ignore the apologists

Pinch Flat · 04-04-2020 1:32pm

There's only two things that matter to trump - protecting his narcissisistic ego and rotecting at any cost Wall st. The US is a hyper capitalist society of haves and have nots. If you're in the latter of these groups you simply don't matter and are collateral to this whole episode.

Stacksofwacks · 04-04-2020 1:37pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

There's only two things that matter to trump - protecting his narcissisistic ego at protecting at any cost Wall st. The US is a hyper capitalist society of haves and have nots. If you're in the latter of these groups you simply don't matter and are collateral to this whole episode.

They're a sick disgusting society. Maybe it will take the collapse of their precious Wall st to make them see the light of humanity.

biko · 04-04-2020 1:39pm

I'm confused - is it USA you guys hate, or capitalism, or Trump?
Just so I know.

biko · 04-04-2020 1:41pm

On topic, the Trump/US response was too little too late.
And the worst thing is they probably had the best intelligence so should have acted better, sooner.

Stacksofwacks · 04-04-2020 1:42pm

biko wrote: »

I'm confused - is it USA you guys hate, or capitalism, or Trump?
Just so I know.

People of USA are fine, the system and leadership on the other hand..

biko · 04-04-2020 1:57pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

They're a sick disgusting society.

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

People of USA are fine, the system and leadership on the other hand..

I'm getting mixed messages here. A society includes everyone.

biko · 04-04-2020 2:00pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Trump just said at the latest briefing.. you guys should probably wear masks but I wont be wearing a mask..at what stage does this go beyond a black comedy, 1500 dead in the last 24 hours and this is what he has to say for himself..Jesus Christ

This is what you forgot to include.

US President Donald Trump has said he will not wear a face mask despite new medical guidance advising Americans to do so.
He could not see himself greeting "presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens" in the Oval Office while wearing one, he said.

"Sitting in the Oval Office... I somehow don't see it for myself."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52161529

all about the mane · 04-04-2020 2:05pm

biko wrote: »

I'm confused - is it USA you guys hate, or capitalism, or Trump?
Just so I know.

It’s the response people have a problem with. That’s what the thread is about .

biko · 04-04-2020 2:09pm

That's why it's confusing when the posts before mine was just anti-US rhetoric and not in line with the thread. Even OP said US was a "sick disgusting society".

Sonics2k · 04-04-2020 2:18pm

biko wrote: »

I'm confused - is it USA you guys hate, or capitalism, or Trump?
Just so I know.

Who even mentioned capitalism?

derp: Totally missed that comment

Pete_Cavan · 04-04-2020 2:46pm

biko wrote: »

I'm confused - is it USA you guys hate, or capitalism, or Trump?
Just so I know.

The thread is about the USA's response to Covid-19 and their president, system of government, their healthccare system, society in general all feed into that response so are all up for discussion. Attitudes range from "this will get nasty, better arm myself to the teeth", to "I don't need to do anything, the good Lord will provide". Just because someone has a negative opinion of the USA's response or things that feed into it, doesn't mean that they hate it. Suggesting that they hate it seems like a way of dismissing criticism without actually considering what the criticism is based on.

lord quackinton · 04-04-2020 2:46pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

The numbers are bloody horrendous, almost twice the cases of the next country, most amount of deaths and they had hindsight and weeks to prepare and they still aren't in lockdown with the federal govt hiding in plain sight. Ignore the apologists

Deaths per million population is the only number that really counts

Nigel Fairservice · 04-04-2020 2:54pm

Their federal structure isn't doing them any favours in responding to this. Different states are doing different things and also to different degrees. I spoke with a friend over there a few days ago. Their state was in lockdown and the next state over it was nearly business as usual.

There's also too many people involved. The president, 50 state governors, local officials. At least in Ireland we seem to have continuity in terms of people, the response and the message.

VinLieger · 04-04-2020 2:59pm

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

Their federal structure isn't doing them any favours in responding to this. Different states are doing different things and also to different degrees. I spoke with a friend over there a few days ago. Their state was in lockdown and the next state over it was nearly business as usual.

There's also too many people involved. The president, 50 state governors, local officials. At least in Ireland we seem to have continuity in terms of people, the response and the message.

Exactly its a mess cus Trump is too clueless and lazy to centralise everything to him which is what the country needs a Leader instead hes too busy worrying about how he looks. Hell theres PPE manufacturers in the US still exporting stuff to asia while the US is stealing other countries supplies on thevtarmac in China, its an absolute garbage fire over there.

sid waddell · 04-04-2020 3:01pm

You cannot understand what is happening in the US without understanding how rejection of science, rejection of expertise, rejection of reason and rejection of truth have become tribal identifiers for the cult of Trump and right-wing politics in general.

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1246146713523453957

biko · 04-04-2020 3:02pm

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

I spoke with a friend over there a few days ago. Their state was in lockdown and the next state over it was nearly business as usual.

This is the same as Europe. While Denmark is in lock-down the Swedes go skiing in their mountains.

Wibbs · 04-04-2020 3:02pm

biko wrote: »

I'm confused - is it USA you guys hate, or capitalism, or Trump?
Just so I know.

I like America for many reasons ,but I'm not blind to her shortcomings, many of which are often positives but not in this crisis. Capitalism like socialism is not pleasant in extremis and in extremis is little more than fascism. Trump? I'd see him as the above sometime shortcomings within US culture mixed with the same shortcomings within capitalism make someone like Trump and his support base not so surprising and almost inevitable. Much like some aspects of Russian culture can beget a Putin, or how some African and Middle Eastern cultures beget hard men at the top of a hierarchy. Or indeed how Irish middle of the road be grand parish pump culture can give us middle of the road be grand parish pump politicians. A fairly good gauge of a culture can be made from the choices it makes to lead it.

VinLieger · 04-04-2020 3:03pm

biko wrote: »

This is the same as Europe. While Denmark is in lock-down the Swedes go skiing in their mountains.

Swedish society is incredibly isolated to begin with, they already were practicing social distancing as a culture so theres far less policing required or neccessary as compared to other countries

Wibbs · 04-04-2020 3:04pm

biko wrote: »

This is the same as Europe. While Denmark is in lock-down the Swedes go skiing in their mountains.

Sure enough, though unlike the US, Europe is still a very loose conglomerate of autonomous states with often quite different cultures in some things.

04-04-2020 3:06pm

sid waddell wrote: »

You cannot understand what is happening in the US without understanding how rejection of science, rejection of expertise, rejection of reason and rejection of truth have become tribal identifiers for the cult of Trump and right-wing politics in general.

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1246146713523453957

America landed people on the moon,was one of leading scientific and medical countries of the 20th century (and cultural with tv and internet)

Its like watching the last days of rome,watching them seemingly implode

Wibbs · 04-04-2020 3:09pm

Bill Gates noted similar and how the American education system has gone from being one of the best to well not exactly great over the last thirty years.

Nigel Fairservice · 04-04-2020 3:17pm

biko wrote: »

This is the same as Europe. While Denmark is in lock-down the Swedes go skiing in their mountains.

I get where you're coming from but it's not quite comparing like with like. Sweden and Denmark are sovereign countries in a political union. States like New York and Pennsylvania are constituent parts of the same country. Germany is also a federal country and seems to have a unified response to the crisis. No waiting around for individual Landers to decide what to do or allowing them do different things.

lord quackinton · 04-04-2020 3:18pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Bill Gates noted similar and how the American education system has gone from being one of the best to well not exactly great over the last thirty years.

And whose fault is that
Unions and who do they back, the democrats
The democrats control New York Chicago most of California Detroit and Baltimore and most of the biggest urban areas in America
Lay the blame where it belongs
Nothing to do with trump

04-04-2020 3:19pm

Bayman81 wrote: »

Another whole thread of Europeans mouthing off how terrible the US is....

Why is the US the no1 immigration target for people from all over the world then? I’d guess no one here has ever lived there.

If you’re outside the bottom 20/30%, life in the states (any really) is considerably better than in any European country except for Switzerland maybe.

But you have no hurling,who wants life without that

sid waddell · 04-04-2020 3:30pm

Bayman81 wrote: »

Another whole thread of Europeans mouthing off how terrible the US is....

Why is the US the no1 immigration target for people from all over the world then? I’d guess no one here has ever lived there.

If you’re outside the bottom 20/30%, life in the states (any really) is considerably better than in any European country except for Switzerland maybe.

What's any of this to do with the Trump regime's response to COVID-19?

Sonics2k · 04-04-2020 3:34pm

sid waddell wrote: »

What's any of this to do with the Trump regime's response to COVID-19?

Apparently it's not permitted to have an opinion on Trumps previous dismissals, claims of hoaxes, claims it was "just a flu" and other madness unless you actively live in the United States.

I also don't live in Russia so I guess I should keep my opinion of Putin, the psychopathic quasi dictator, to myself.

Stateofyou · 04-04-2020 3:41pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I like America for many reasons ,but I'm not blind to her shortcomings, many of which are often positives but not in this crisis. Capitalism like socialism is not pleasant in extremis and in extremis is little more than fascism. Trump? I'd see him as the above sometime shortcomings within US culture mixed with the same shortcomings within capitalism make someone like Trump and his support base not so surprising and almost inevitable. Much like some aspects of Russian culture can beget a Putin, or how some African and Middle Eastern cultures beget hard men at the top of a hierarchy. Or indeed how Irish middle of the road be grand parish pump culture can give us middle of the road be grand parish pump politicians. A fairly good gauge of a culture can be made from the choices it makes to lead it.

Maybe so, but there's also different factors in play when it comes to voting and suppression issues. Also, the US technically elected Hilary Clinton by almost 3million more votes than Trump.

Agricola · 04-04-2020 3:46pm

It's incredible to watch a US president be forced into a path of action by others which is intended just to save American lives, when his natural inclination is to pretend the pandemic isnt happening and keep the economy going as normal.

I used to think coronavirus would be the end of Trump because he'd never be able to bullshít his way out of the sheer death toll, but now Im not so sure. I think he'll turn the tables completely and try to paint himself as a war time leader who is bravely battling an invisible enemy. The yanks love a romantic war story and could well give him the boost he needs for re-election, just like Bush in 2004.

sid waddell · 04-04-2020 3:47pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

Apparently it's not permitted to have an opinion on Trumps previous dismissals, claims of hoaxes, claims it was "just a flu" and other madness unless you actively live in the United States.

I also don't live in Russia so I guess I should keep my opinion of Putin, the psychopathic quasi dictator, to myself.

It's quite the irony that the poster that was implying Europeans shouldn't be allowed have an opinion on America was himself ranting about Bolivia, Brazil, East Germany, the USSR and Vietnam in his previous post.

A much travelled man - presuming he has lived in all of those countries, of course!

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 04-04-2020 3:49pm

lord quackinton wrote: »

Deaths per million population is the only number that really counts

Yep, and the yanks are currently doing better than Ireland on present trajectory...

Will this continue? Hard to say... but they do have excellent healthcare, if you can get into it.

From what I've been hearing, everyone is being treated during the pandemic. So that's a big positive for them.

sid waddell · 04-04-2020 3:50pm

Agricola wrote: »

It's incredible to watch a US president be forced into a path of action by others which is intended just to save American lives, when his natural inclination is to pretend the pandemic isnt happening and keep the economy going as normal.

I used to think coronavirus would be the end of Trump because he'd never be able to bullshít his way out of the sheer death toll, but now Im not so sure. I think he'll turn the tables completely and try to paint himself as a war time leader who is bravely battling an invisible enemy. The yanks love a romantic war story and could well give him the boost he needs for re-election, just like Bush in 2004.

Anything below 2.2 million deaths, and obviously the final death toll will be below that, and he and the evangelical cultists that believe he is "the chosen one" will be claiming he personally saved milllions of lives.

threeball · 04-04-2020 3:51pm

Bayman81 wrote: »

Another whole thread of Europeans mouthing off how terrible the US is....

Why is the US the no1 immigration target for people from all over the world then? I’d guess no one here has ever lived there.

If you’re outside the bottom 20/30%, life in the states (any really) is considerably better than in any European country except for Switzerland maybe.

By what metric. I've spent plenty of time in the states and pretty much any of the main european countries are more attractive places to live than the states and thats before you talk about all the problems with health, the food they grow and rear etc.

American response

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