Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

PTH2009 · 15-01-2015 6:29pm

will limerick and waterford be holding back this weekend so they wont get too exposed for the league opener on the 14th feb

Id be afraid of Laois and Offaly in the league, 2 teams are improving

If we get 3rd or 4th in the league id be happy, promotion will go to Limerick or Wexford i think

After matchday 5 i think the league table will look like this

1 Wexford
2 Limerick
3 Laois
4 Waterford

5 Offaly
6 Antrim

If we are playing in the relagation match of Div 1B than the management team should be removed

Cornerstoner · 15-01-2015 6:36pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

will limerick and waterford be holding back this weekend so they wont get too exposed for the league opener on the 14th feb

Id be afraid of Laois and Offaly in the league, 2 teams are improving

If we get 3rd or 4th in the league id be happy, promotion will go to Limerick or Wexford i think

After matchday 5 i think the league table will look like this

1 Wexford
2 Limerick
3 Laois
4 Waterford

5 Offaly
6 Antrim

If we are playing in the relagation match of Div 1B than the management team should be removed

Are you having a laugh

cul beag · 15-01-2015 7:10pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

will limerick and waterford be holding back this weekend so they wont get too exposed for the league opener on the 14th feb

Id be afraid of Laois and Offaly in the league, 2 teams are improving

If we get 3rd or 4th in the league id be happy, promotion will go to Limerick or Wexford i think

After matchday 5 i think the league table will look like this

1 Wexford
2 Limerick
3 Laois
4 Waterford

5 Offaly
6 Antrim

If we are playing in the relagation match of Div 1B than the management team should be removed

Things have been going very well in challenge games,the Waterford crystal trophy and in training. Dan Shanahan tells us they couldn't be happier so with everything going so well i would be expecting us to at least finish second in div 1b. No injuries to speak of and the panel of players that the management want so im very optimistic for the coming year.

tonc76 · 15-01-2015 7:10pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

will limerick and waterford be holding back this weekend so they wont get too exposed for the league opener on the 14th feb

Id be afraid of Laois and Offaly in the league, 2 teams are improving

If we get 3rd or 4th in the league id be happy, promotion will go to Limerick or Wexford i think

After matchday 5 i think the league table will look like this

1 Wexford
2 Limerick
3 Laois
4 Waterford

5 Offaly
6 Antrim

If we are playing in the relagation match of Div 1B than the management team should be removed

Your positivity as per usual is infectious.

KevIRL · 15-01-2015 7:24pm

I'm just shocked he doesn't have us bottom of the table

brickeyvalley · 15-01-2015 8:30pm

I say Cormac will one day be a sure county senior start but I would like too see him operate at full forward in the league. I don't understand why he was wing forward because it's true, he doesn't have the legs for it, simply because he's 6ft 4 and 16 stone and that doesn't move quickly but when he gets the ball and the yard he can do damage. He is great to win aerial ball but Derek Lyons made a huge mistake with him in midfield and half forwards. The reason why he mainly played not great is cause even at club level he was always full forward for the intermediates, he started one or two games for the minors midfield, the rest he was full forward cause he didn't have the legs. The minors and ye intermediates for Brickeys have the right idea, and that's full forward. When he was full forward for the county minors I have no excuse really he should of played better. But if you saw his stats of number of goals and points per game you'd be surprised. He averaged 3-5 for the club minors and 2-4 for the intermediates. (Source: Degree in Sport Science). Even if he was just a sub, the little of appearances does the world for a player psychologically, dropping him would send him into a downwards spiral from county. Curran would of benefited more to the football panel, he was sensational for the football minors, probably a better footballer. But has little interest, if players like him applied to football as much as hurling this county would have a sensational panel. Regardless of what people say and All Ireland winning football team is in Waterford, Sadly a good few of them are on the hurling and even a few players make the world of differences, it's never that Waterford don't have quality footballers, they just don't have the extra required subs for the final third which is where we always lose to teams, and them few players are on the hurling.

On player burnout, the average minor county players training is staggering, a lot strength and conditioning now, but come March/April they will be training at least once club minor, once county minor, once club senior and gym sessions in the mean time aswell as matches at the weekend. Having been to an AFL Trail and there on work experience whilst in college there is a lot to learn on how they train. If there methods were implied I don't care how shabby your team is cause you would be champions if you follow their routines. A major factor in player burnout is:

1) diet, players need to be told what meals to have weekly and there able to check if you are eating all the food. Wrong types of food, players consuming alcohol.

2) Sleep patterns - They body needs the correct amount of time to recover and should be to the same time everyday. Having a match Saturday evening for example and sleeping til 1 - 2 pm actually does worse for your body. 10 - 8 everyday is what's required, regardless of playing a match.

3) Going out drinking and Playing a match in the morning. Something Bennett is guilty of and something nearly all minors in Waterford are guilty of, and having known the majority of minors through clubs a couple are friends with me on Facebook and they are consistently out drinking, and those are ones playing county. You are far more likely to get injured after consumption of alcohol within 48 hours.

4) Over Training ? Most people when they say players are trained into the ground is incorrect. You are required to have 60 minutes of physical activity daily. A county player should train daily, but the intensity needs to be altered, this then comes down to the argument of set training drills and the difference between training and coaching. A correct county player for e.g. Should have County twice a week and club once but altering it for a normal timetable is what I'll demonstrate.

Monday - Morning Light Gym Session - 40 minutes (Morning)
On field contact, including possession games, practice weaknesses,(team should work on actually correcting the shoulder and have games where the object is to fairly shoulder your player to the ground because when you don't do as much in training you are more likely to get injured) (Evening)

Tuesday - Intensive Gym training 1hr 20 minutes (morning)
Light on field training, no contact, mainly kicking drills, little running (Evening)

Wednesday - Cardio Gym Work out consistent running with gum shield (morning)
Rest Day - If you feel injured do a stretches at your home

Thursday - Rest Day (morning)
Intensive full contact, possession, 49 minute match - 1hr 30 minutes (evening)

Friday - Medium Gym Workout (morning)
Kicking Drills, no contact

Weekends matches,

In AFL (Aussie Football Rules) they can have full time clubs but all amateur AFL clubs operate on that system.

5) School - A reason players burnout is due to school aswell, none are advised the correct balance or given schedules, 17-23 year old aren't thinking of schedules but like in AFL is they want to play they must obey what's stated above and achieve well in school. Psychologically performing in school translates to preforming on the pitch. Both Professional and Amateur AFL teams work well with the school and require good attendance in both, think around 90%. Schools need to be affiliated with clubs and in return clubs need to train schools and revitalise the Harry and hogan cups.

And before people comment on this being boring, the majority of ye rant and rave about player burnout but it can easily be corrected. This is not me talking, this is science.

And before people say this is too much a requirement, like Joe Brolly has come out and stated, times have changed and if Waterford want to preform at this level they need adapt that to both codes. And before another remark like "maybe you should get involved and implement it then". I would love too but am currently undertaking year 8 of a postgraduate Medicine.

Mountainlad · 15-01-2015 8:41pm

Misread that. Brolly has a valid point, they are amateurs and that hs to be respected and its not so at the moment, with egomaniac coaches deciding all the players are robots and they are their masters.
.

What you're saying is actually taking the thing Joe Brolly is arguing against to a new level by enforcing it at minor level. And then putting Bennetts hip problems alongside a "fondness for drink". Think you've broken all the rules on this one.

One point for you, if you started making players do this while the game remains amateur you will lose players at an alarming rate. Anybody whose gonna to college has enjoyed themselves, the reality is with freshers competitions and the demands on some of them playing on inter county teams they do it far far less than your average student. And what they do is their business and nobody elses.

Alf Tupper · 15-01-2015 8:47pm

cul beag wrote: »

Things have been going very well in challenge games,the Waterford crystal trophy and in training. Dan Shanahan tells us they couldn't be happier so with everything going so well i would be expecting us to at least finish second in div 1b. No injuries to speak of and the panel of players that the management want so im very optimistic for the coming year.

The Limerick game is key.

Limerick are notoriously slow starters in the league and they have their eyes on bigger things.

Now, looking at the panel of players available to us, especially with the likes of Maurice and Stephen Daniels coming back into the fray by then, with players such as Paudie Mah, Jake and Brian stepping up to the plate in the scoring stakes and the likes of Shane Sullivan, Moran and Brick showing leadership I'd be hopeful that we'd be able to send out a message for the rest of the season.

We definitely have better hurlers available to us than Wexford so I really think we can take them if the right team is picked.

Laois or Antrim have never beaten us, especially at home and in my 40 years or so following Waterford I can only remember Offaly beating us once.

So as I say, if the right team is picked and the management let the players hurl to their ability I honestly think we have a real chance of promotion.

FFS, we are Waterford, one of the top tier hurling counties with arguably the best crop of the youngest hurlers we've ever had and we're in the 2nd division so if we can't throw off the shackles and go out and hurl with abandon and confidence at this stage, we're really at nothing.

So less of the poor mouth. It's ours for the taking so let's go out and grab it.

Mountainlad · 15-01-2015 8:57pm

Agreed Alf should fear nothing in 1B. And so far so good injury wise. One thing though, Shan and Daniels basically haven't hurled inter county since 2013. Better to leave in form lads in for Limerick and maybe ease them in v Laois and Antrim?

brickeyvalley · 15-01-2015 9:02pm

I agree with Brolly to an extent. I showed that based in science and amateur AFL teams having been there trained with them, was on placement at Sydeny Swans, and coached an Amateur AFL team this is the requirement, it not treating players like robots and will never apply to all teams but Brolly comes from a different time in regards to sport. Science proves all my points valid, that players due suffer. I never said Bennett has a fondness for drink, but I do know that he does drink and drinking 48 hours before training games increases injury chances.

Also I don't think that's far what's being demanded now. You are meant to get 60 minutes exercise daily I showed what it should be balance wise, the difference between coaching and training. Having some sessions contact and others conditioning and others ball work. The balance needs to be right when training consistanally not training 5 times a week with nothing but contact.

Kerry, Kildare and Donegal have all adopted this and it ain't surprising because it simply works, the difference between coaching and training. And then if you looked who managed them last year, all three have a Sport Science and Sport related degrees. You will never lose members because no team will ever implement it, it isn't far of Waterford's current demands for all squads but it isn't being done correctly.

Mountainlad · 15-01-2015 9:48pm

I agree there needs to be a scientific approach to training, consultation between clubs and management for players training schedules is great in theory but difficult to roll out.

On Diet, consultation would be sufficient. Strict monitoring of their diets in my opinion is beyond the bounds of what amateur sport should demand. As long as their informed, its their decision after and if they are following it pretty closely their performance will show it, likewise if they're in the chipper 3 nights a week and they wont last long.

But you have to remember, they are 16 and 17 year olds mainly. A lot of them will be doing their leaving etc, and are well entitled to celebrate completing that.

GAA is amateur in the same way Sunday league soccer is, and yet the perception of the commitment required even at club level is out of sync with the assigned status.

stumblingblock · 15-01-2015 10:20pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

will limerick and waterford be holding back this weekend so they wont get too exposed for the league opener on the 14th feb

Id be afraid of Laois and Offaly in the league, 2 teams are improving

If we get 3rd or 4th in the league id be happy, promotion will go to Limerick or Wexford i think

After matchday 5 i think the league table will look like this

1 Wexford
2 Limerick
3 Laois
4 Waterford

5 Offaly
6 Antrim

If we are playing in the relagation match of Div 1B than the management team should be removed

This is getting ridiculous. Remember the game against Laois last year in the championship where many people were writing our obituaries and calling for mcgraths head after? Yea we actually won that game. In fact Laois never even got close to us. My point being that no matter how bad people are saying we've gotten or how far we've fallen were still a top tier hurling county. Definetly should be aiming for top 2. We should be looking at max points from lapis Antrim and offaly. And then beat one of either limerick or wexford. That would be good progress imo as long as our performances are good too. That would get us a league quarter final and a top quality game before we play cork in the championship. I firmly believe we will see improvement this year. I think we can have a massive cut off cork in the championship. We are well capable of beating them once our own house is in order.

brickeyvalley · 15-01-2015 10:22pm

Player burnout doesn't really occur until about 21 - 23 in most cases, this is when the players have played Sigerson, Fitzgibbion and unless they have cemented their status on the seniors they once last long as particularly in Waterford, the minors who shined this year are the next best thing since sliced bread. And by the time they are 21 - 23 they have either been dropped to accommodate the next big minor stars or have gotten injured. Normally per county 2.1 players that plays county minor will ever make it county senior, and if you look at Kilkenny it's probably less, they never did what waterford are doing and brought nothing but youth in. It was a gradually process which AFL, Rugby, Kilkenny do. Can you imagine if Brian Cody turned around in the morning and dropped several key players and said "well seeing as the minors did good they're the future and were going to gamble on them" no it would never happen because there would be uproar. Waterford have an incorrect balance of youth and experience, and on a Gaa field, I'll take the 30 year old with a proven track record than a minor who preformed at minor level. This is another reason of player burnout, counties obsession with the next best thing, Under-23's isn't even a bad idea but it shouldn't be implemented cause of the already lack of importance on Under-21.

There needs to be changes and correct advice, Gaa had entered the sage of professionalism once it sold rights to Sky, players will soon demand a percentage of that deal. Professional GAA wouldn't even be a bad thing if it was maintained to your own counties where you couldn't transfer but that's a different story.

Clubs have already implemented this, Cratloe being one, they do different types of training, not all contact, Kicking, Catching Cardio, which is why main teams fail. Lack if knowledge if correct training, it has to be implemented at under-6's all the way through, similar to what Sunday league soccer and rugby has. Better Trained coaches, better drills, better understanding of psychology, better understand of Physical Education.

Mountainlad · 15-01-2015 10:26pm

Not even sure what point your making at this stage re not rushing players onto the panel etc. There's a lot more to the argument than physical deterioration which obviously you have studied. They've lives to maintain outside of hurling.

Anyway, not sure where this started?

brickeyvalley · 15-01-2015 10:36pm

Right simply it means: For example:
Cormac curran is on the panel because he shined at minor, now he will be continuously trained and drained under poor training structures during his time in college and up until under-21 ends, if he isn't starting for Waterford consistantly he will be dropped to make room for the next Cormac Curran, who played good at minor and is hailed as the next best thing. It is not just physical burnout, it's this counties obsession in thinking minors will solve all our problems. This cycle always occurs.

The other physical burnout is injuries.

Cornerstoner · 15-01-2015 10:43pm

Can mods please change the title of the thread to "We all dream of a team of Cormac Currans"

Jarjohn · 15-01-2015 11:10pm

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Can mods please change the title of the thread to "We all dream of a team of Cormac Currans"

Or Brickeys GAA Discussion Thread 2015:D

KevIRL · 15-01-2015 11:13pm

Or PTH2009's thread of doom

brickeyvalley · 15-01-2015 11:13pm

I don't think CornerStoner can say much, by the name I'm presuming your from Cappoquin, after saying your minors will be cornerstone in Irish. Last I check cornerstone was a chipper and your sponsor so congrats on being the first Gaa coalition to be names after a chipper, I look forward to the abuse that team suffers throughout the year.

brickeyvalley · 15-01-2015 11:14pm

I only use Cormac curran cause he was the topic of conversation all day.

archieknox · 15-01-2015 11:25pm

brickeyvalley wrote: »

I only use Cormac curran cause he was the topic of conversation all day.

Very interesting discussion and you obviously know your stuff pacifically on the medical side of things. Definitely it is something that needs to be addressed from minor upwards. On a more lighter note if ye feel he is being over trained out in bushy park we would be more than happy to wrap him up in cotton wool inside in our place!

brickeyvalley · 15-01-2015 11:30pm

Oh lord Archie :L we have tryed but we can't afford that much cotton wool, cause if he gets some cotton wool they'll all want some.

Cornerstoner · 15-01-2015 11:33pm

brickeyvalley wrote: »

I don't think CornerStoner can say much, by the name I'm presuming your from Cappoquin, after saying your minors will be cornerstone in Irish. Last I check cornerstone was a chipper and your sponsor so congrats on being the first Gaa coalition to be names after a chipper, I look forward to the abuse that team suffers throughout the year.

Let me know what the weather is like down Intermediate next year mate. FYI the most iconic gas sponsorship: Galway and Supermacs

The blue blaa · 16-01-2015 12:03am

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Let me know what the weather is like down Intermediate next year mate. FYI the most iconic gas sponsorship: Galway and Supermacs

ðŸ˜‚ :-) there do be some tripe spouted on this

Ps. Eamonn's Plaice in Lismore is the most iconic of all

stumblingblock · 16-01-2015 12:08am

brickeyvalley wrote: »

I only use Cormac curran cause he was the topic of conversation all day.

Your topic of conversation.....

brickeyvalley · 16-01-2015 12:27am

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Let me know what the weather is like down Intermediate next year mate. FYI the most iconic gas sponsorship: Galway and Supermacs

I think nearly everyone on this side will agree that Brickey rangers are a predominately football club, Senior for that matter. That still didn't stop our minors from beating Ye'res last year. One of the most disrespectful performances Cappoquin have ever shown towards tier own management. And all the other times we beat you in hurling and football underage last year. What I can't wait to see this year is the minor football and who ye'll have against our five county minors, three county u17, two county u16 and one county u15. Why ever they're division two I'd love too know.

#BrickeysAbu
#BrickeyForumonthe15/01/15

Mountainlad · 16-01-2015 12:29am

The match at the weekend can't come quick enough, give us something to talk about...

Jarjohn · 16-01-2015 12:36am

This thread is going downhill lads. Two very disappointing tit for tat posts slagging off each others clubs. We can all have a bit of banter on here and tis great but that is where it should end.

brickeyvalley · 16-01-2015 12:42am

I don't think either party has been offended

just banter. Does anyone know what Limerick have been like so far in regards too, are they trying too bring through a lot of under-21's and see what there like or are they doing what they did last year keeping the same panel and looking at one or two. Also I believe a few of them are yet to return to training "doing the auld tiny Browne showing up the training session before the first league game"

Deise_2012 · 16-01-2015 1:00am

Mountainlad wrote: »

The match at the weekend can't come quick enough, give us something to talk about...

Who's playing at the weekend?

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Comments