Sports Coalition boycotts FCP

gunny123 · 23-02-2018 12:29am

Seems a bit excessive, that would put a lot of home based dealers out of the game i would think.

Cass · 23-02-2018 12:35am

Another one that came in under the radar but this one got through. As i said above and in many other threads who are these sub committees, who is on them, who gives input and is there proper and equal representation for all at them.

I've a feeling certain groups are whispering in the ears of those in authority that will listen and those affected, usually being the majority, know nothing about it.

It's why i asked above about who was in this committee.

Walter Mittys Brother · 23-02-2018 3:49am

BattleCorp wrote: »

Has anybody been on to the NASRPC to see if they still support the Sports Coalition?

Very good question considering the new nasrpc chairman is a member of an riocht which is an nargc affialated club.

Tinfoil hat on ....... Been a power shift in nasrpc? Nasrpc no longer support sc? So sc now has no big player in it? And all of as sudden nargc pushing for groups to show their credentials..............better than a good spy novel this stuff

cavan shooter · 23-02-2018 7:54am

gunny123 wrote: »

Seems a bit excessive, that would put a lot of home based dealers out of the game i would think.

I think that's the general idea push the smaller firearms dealers out of business and those in the Sports Coalition of vested interests are sitting back nice and smug. You wouldn't see what happened on that front in a failed African state or central American banana republic. Oh I can hear the dept now, of course I spoke to the Firearms dealers, the 2 of them were 100% supportive.

If the scuttlebug is correct over 100 of the smaller firearms dealers met with the NARGC last week to set up opposition to this. However, I fear its too late.

Backbarrel · 23-02-2018 8:57am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

There is a difference between Negligence, Accidental and outright Criminal in your examples. Two as you rightly pointed out should be paid out the other absolutely not.
A slightly different situation with motor insurance.Even if you are an innocent party to the accident.Your premium skyrockets because you were involved in an accident and the insurance companies "statistics" rate you as a higher potential risk.As well as the Insurance companies having to pay out for the criminal behaviour f the uninsured driver, which goes into a national pot to pay the victims.As well as insurance fraud and IMHO the appallingly bad investigation of claims for "whiplash" and lower soft tissue back injuries.

Fortunately, us Irish gun owners and shooters are a seemingly responsible lot with a 0% average rate of annual accidents and death.So we are good risks. So I really want to know what "Criminal activity " NARGC has been involved in to warrant these accusations. I mean using the Garda logo...Seriously??...The most dastardly heinous crime of the century in Ireland.... Did the NARGC all go off and impersonate Garda officers ,or what???

No impersonation. The garda and nargc logo were on a jointly approved and released documents as far as I know...

if you are clamping and shoot a farmer's cow by mistake..you knock on farmers door give him the fund number and the accident is covered. not deliberate..the accident.

I heard that it is all currently being investigated so I will leave it at that..

S.C. of vested interests can explain that one to their members at the next AGM.. oh wait...

Backbarrel · 23-02-2018 9:00am

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

Very good question considering the new nasrpc chairman is a member of an riocht which is an nargc affialated club.

Tinfoil hat on ....... Been a power shift in nasrpc? Nasrpc no longer support sc? So sc now has no big player in it? And all of as sudden nargc pushing for groups to show their credentials..............better than a good spy novel this stuff

Not all of a sudden ..definitely not..just finally listened too.

If Nasrpc and fissta leave it will cut down on the cost of holding meetings I would say..;)

BattleCorp · 23-02-2018 9:05am

Backbarrel wrote: »

Not all of a sudden ..definitely not..just finally listened too.

If Nasrpc and fissta leave it will cut down on the cost of holding meetings I would say..;)

No statement regarding this on the NASRPC website so I'm guessing that the SC have their full support.

clivej · 23-02-2018 11:44am

Cass wrote: »

I wonder who had input into that. Did all the RFDs that were in the original Firearms Dealer Association have any input or was it only a select few?

My local RFD told me that the new SI was never given/told to the dealers.
They are not happy with the new regulatons

berettaman · 23-02-2018 1:34pm

clivej wrote: »

My local RFD told me that the new SI was never given/told to the dealers.
They are not happy with the new regulatons

My local RFD showed me the letter he got from the Dept of Justice stipulating the new rules..the one with the time locks etc.

No prior consultation.

The title of the document was the "guide to the obligations of registered firearms dealers in Ireland. "Last revision February 2018

gunny123 · 23-02-2018 2:38pm

cavan shooter wrote: »

If the scuttlebug is correct over 100 of the smaller firearms dealers met with the NARGC last week to set up opposition to this. However, I fear its too late.

Reminds me of the old saying "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance". Never as apt in this case.

Grizzly 45 · 23-02-2018 2:53pm

Now we are getting the hang of it.That's why we have to keep an eye on every parliamentary question, debate and comment by a minister on guns and shooting here.As well as keeping the fCP no matter what...We were Pearl harboured in May 2008 and had plenty of hostile radar blips and our organisations took no heed of it.Let's make sure it never happens again.

berettaman · 23-02-2018 3:46pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Now we are getting the hang of it.That's why we have to keep an eye on every parliamentary question, debate and comment by a minister on guns and shooting here.As well as keeping the fCP no matter what...We were Pearl harboured in May 2008 and had plenty of hostile radar blips and our organisations took no heed of it.Let's make sure it never happens again.

Agree with this.

Boards plays it part as we keep each other informed.

Keep each other motivated to take action when needed.

I know the opposition are watching what we say and do not like it one bit.

Heard we got a mention in a meeting recently ..some lad whinging about treatment on boards.:rolleyes:

Here is an idea, stop acting the maggot trying to wreck the sport of others and then we can all live and let live.;)

clivej · 23-02-2018 4:10pm

All what the hell is the story with the fcp and sports coalition. Just got heads up from AMOC. What happened to the unity of purpose and the the bloody leadership. We were united until the stage was some how reset. For God sake who is going to lead. Frankly I am disgusted with the Sports Coalition's position. A grouping that, when unified, delivered serious concession to shooters.. Who stands to gain from such actions? We must not let the FCP disband. Whoever supports this is no friend of shooting sports.

CJ & MT

Cass · 23-02-2018 4:13pm

berettaman wrote: »

Heard we got a mention in a meeting recently ..some lad whinging about treatment on boards.:rolleyes:

To use an old saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Well the same applies on this forum. It's not Boards.ie that has the problem, it's the membership, and that in itself should tell you everything you need to know about these people.

They are upset because we, the members of this forum, have found out something they tried to do in secret and called them out on it. Had they been open, honest, transparent and upfront there would be a very much quieter forum and they would have nothing to worry about. Now they are openly attacking a group that does work for the shooting community for reasons of pettiness, malice or whatever it is that motivates them. How did they think this would play out for them? Did they think anyone would support this. After their actions?

Think for a moment about the attacks on our sport we've found out about in the last say 2 and a bit years:

Proposed changes to personal/home security (time lock safes, etc)
Banning of a lot of the currently licensed 22lr pistols
Banning of semi auto rifles
Ban on night time shooting
Privatization of deer stalking/hunting

That is from "OUR" lot and in the last 24 - 30 months. Now we find out they are doing the same thing and also targeting the RFDs and businesses that support our sport.

Frankly AGS and DoJ couldn't do this good a job at trying to ruin shooting sports in Ireland. Its why i personally get so annoyed when i see the NASRPC and other groups supporting the ones proposing/submitting and then agreeing to these changes.

Cass · 23-02-2018 4:15pm

Agree with you on most of that Clivej, but one thing, and it's a little off topic, but what are you referring to when you say:

clivej wrote: »

............ the Sports Coalition's position. A grouping that, when unified, delivered serious concession to shooters...............

Sparks · 23-02-2018 4:29pm

A grouping that, when unified, delivered serious concession to shooters.

*cough*bollix*cough*

cavan shooter · 23-02-2018 4:39pm

I think the FCP is a great idea. Any forum that allows the shooting fraternity, the DOJ and Gardai to sit around to discuss and agree positions is positive especially if it keeps us out of court.

However the FCP was clearly hijacked and from that point on seemed to become an avenue for selfservice by vested interests. The SC were obsessed about keeping the NARGC away from the FCP and to **** over the ordinary guy; Why? I really cant get my head around it.

Cass · 23-02-2018 4:56pm

cavan shooter wrote: »

However the FCP was clearly hijacked and from that point on seemed to become an avenue for selfservice by vested interests.

Exactly.

In keeping with the examples a couple of posts up the FCP are not the cause of this but rather a groups or groups within it. As such the FCP as the umbrella group (as it includes the DoJ/AGS and the other shooting bodies) cannot be held to account for the actions of the minority.

We need to make sure this point is clear and that any anger, outrage, disgust are directed at the guilty party because as you said (and others) the FCP is the best avenue we have to be included. I'd hate for it to be pissed away. We'd be left with no option to sit at the table and other than to having our voices heard we would have no way of knowing about upcoming changes before they appear as happened with the recent RFD SI.

gunny123 · 23-02-2018 5:16pm

How the hell did this lot (sc) and the "gentleman" at the helm of it get onto the fcp in the first place ? Were they helped onto it by the old guard of nargc ?

Wexshot1 · 23-02-2018 7:07pm

gunny123 wrote: »

How the hell did this lot (sc) and the "gentleman" at the helm of it get onto the fcp in the first place ? Were they helped onto it by the old guard of nargc ?

Nothing surer I’d say.
Can I suggest that people direct their upset and disgust to the relevant people.
That way the right people might actually take note that the actual legit shooting people in this country are in fact 100% behind the FCP.
I for one have emailed all my local TD’S and am in the process of doing the same with all Senators.
If these people don’t know what’s going on they will never be any use to our community.

meathstevie · 24-02-2018 3:06am

cavan shooter wrote: »

I think the FCP is a great idea. Any forum that allows the shooting fraternity, the DOJ and Gardai to sit around to discuss and agree positions is positive especially if it keeps us out of court.

However the FCP was clearly hijacked and from that point on seemed to become an avenue for selfservice by vested interests. The SC were obsessed about keeping the NARGC away from the FCP and to **** over the ordinary guy; Why? I really cant get my head around it.

Of course the FCP is a great idea. It should be where sporting gun owners their respective organisations and firearms dealers can sit around the table with the DOJ and the Gardai away from media and other hysteria and come to reasonable compromises.

After all is said and done the Irish sporting gun owner is far from an unreasonable creature. We generally just want access to a proper shotgun, rifle or handgun to either shoot targets or hunt. Most would be into a mix of hunting and target shooting disciplines so we would quite likely want access to a few different firearms.

Very few would be looking for anything that raises eyebrows anywhere around the world.

Why do some people then see a need to try and manipulate this forum for their own narrow interests is beyond me. Do they simply not understand that what's beneficial to most will ultimately be beneficial to them as well ?

grassroot1 · 24-02-2018 9:35am

cavan shooter wrote: »

I think the FCP is a great idea. Any forum that allows the shooting fraternity, the DOJ and Gardai to sit around to discuss and agree positions is positive especially if it keeps us out of court.

However the FCP was clearly hijacked and from that point on seemed to become an avenue for selfservice by vested interests. The SC were obsessed about keeping the NARGC away from the FCP and to **** over the ordinary guy; Why? I really cant get my head around it.

CASH CASH CASH

wirehairmax · 26-02-2018 7:10pm

To quote Mr Walsh:
''I refer here to the issue of night shooting
and the inherent dangers associated with it.''
So last year we were spun a line about how it was all a big misunderstanding and we didnt say night shooting was dangerous at all, blah blah blah. Yet we still want to introduce measures to curtail, curfew and restrict it, yet we are the saviours of irish hunting and shooting.
God help us all with muppets like this trying to represent us or so they say

cavan shooter · 26-02-2018 11:05pm

I said it Already, If there is such a problem with night time shooting and with the fund why oh why are we only being told about it now

Wexshot1 · 26-02-2018 11:15pm

The scenario as I see it is this,
“I want to shoot vermin at night”
Well Mr ####### you will need to do a course first before getting a permit for that job.
Oh really and where do I get that permit ?
Well Mr ####### there are one or two designated ranges which have been tasked with that job and it’ll only cost you €x amount to do it.

Well that’s not going to work is it ?
No we didn’t sneak that in yet but now that we’ve screwed that up we’ll make all sorts of allegations against the biggest NGO in the country and maybe that’ll take the heat off us and if that doesn’t work we’ll try shaft the dealers to see if we can close a few of them by the back door.

Rant over.

wirehairmax · 27-02-2018 12:11pm

cavan shooter wrote: »

I said it Already, If there is such a problem with night time shooting and with the fund why oh why are we only being told about it now

The fund operated the very same way under the now departed National Director. Are the Sports Coalition saying that there have been problems all those years and it went unchecked under his tenure? Because that's what it sounds like to me.

gunny123 · 27-02-2018 1:01pm

I just hope the so-called sports coalition and its master, quietly fade away and do no more damage to us.

Grizzly 45 · 27-02-2018 1:34pm

How do they put it up in the Dail?They should consider their position....And feck off quietly into the night or be damn well thrown out.

Wexshot1 · 27-02-2018 9:25pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

How do they put it up in the Dail?They should consider their position....And feck off quietly into the night or be damn well thrown out.

It’s a well known fact these guys are very well politically connected Grizzly.
So it’s the usual Irish thing of who you know and how well you know them.
All we need is a whistle blower and I’d say it would be interesting reading.

.243 · 27-02-2018 11:50pm

gunny123 wrote: »

I just hope the so-called sports coalition and its master, quietly fade away and do no more damage to us.

thats what concerns me more,
in some way or another (and we've all know their track record by now)they wont except leaving behind a big "thank you and goodbye" skid mark for us to clean up

gunny123 · 28-02-2018 12:20am

.243 wrote: »

thats what concerns me more,
in some way or another (and we've all know their track record by now)they wont except leaving behind a big "thank you and goodbye" skid mark for us to clean up

They are outcasts and pariahs now. If the gardai and government side of the fcp cop on what the sc are about, if they have not already, then they might refuse to talk to the scam coalition and want them off the fcp too.

plinker66 · 28-02-2018 11:40am

In a correspondence with SC I asked Mr Walsh to withdraw submissions on night hunting.... he claimed to represent 120,000 hunter, and sports people. That is probably you and every other country sports person. Most likely getting his numbers from the petition we all signed some years back. SC have no support to speak of left but they have 4 seats on the FCP. Everyone knows this except Minister Stanton (chairman of FCP) refuses to dismiss them from the FCP so direct your emails to him as I have

Walter Mittys Brother · 28-02-2018 2:07pm

Very hard to even imagine where he got a figure of 120,000.

NASRPC has what 19 members? Don't forget the clubs are the members not the members of the clubs.

NARGC at a guess have 28,000 members (going on last number I heard) & they don't even support SC.

As said above is he using the signatures on a previous petition? Hardly a true reflection of their support now?

NASRPC, if they are/were supporting restrictions on night shooting is hardly acceptable? They are a target shooting organisation not hunting.

gunny123 · 28-02-2018 4:03pm

plinker66 wrote: »

In a correspondence with SC I asked Mr Walsh to withdraw submissions on night hunting.... he claimed to represent 120,000 hunter, and sports people. That is probably you and every other country sports person. Most likely getting his numbers from the petition we all signed some years back. SC have no support to speak of left but they have 4 seats on the FCP. Everyone knows this except Minister Stanton (chairman of FCP) refuses to dismiss them from the FCP so direct your emails to him as I have

Could we start a "not in my name" type of online petition so mr.walsh gets the message ? I would do it myself, but i would not know how. Maybe someone more computer savvy ?

Grizzly 45 · 01-03-2018 12:18am

www.change.org Dead simple to set up and use.

wirehairmax · 01-03-2018 12:19am

21841215-4168-4E36-B7F7-452447B56A0A.jpeg

gunny123 · 01-03-2018 12:24am

electrichunter · 01-03-2018 1:20pm

if i set up petition for say, sports colalition not supported by fieldsports persons ireland it then asks who will recieve info on same petition so will it be nargc or minister for justice , any ideas on same.

grassroot1 · 01-03-2018 5:09pm

Straight to the minister!! let us know when it is up

plinker66 · 04-03-2018 11:49pm

Minister Stanton is currently reviewing membership to the FCP let your views be known to him

Cass · 12-03-2018 12:32am

How is everyone's e-mail/letters writing going? Any replies? If not don't worry, as long as you let your opinions be known to the same people the sc contacted.

extremetaz · 12-03-2018 9:53am

I got an acknowledgement, but that's about it.

BattleCorp · 12-03-2018 10:11am

Cass wrote: »

How is everyone's e-mail/letters writing going? Any replies? If not don't worry, as long as you let your opinions be known to the same people the sc contacted.

I'd say everyone who writes will get this standard letter. Sorry about the large size, I'm not very technical and didn't know how to make it smaller.

gunny123 · 13-03-2018 10:04pm

Cass wrote: »

How is everyone's e-mail/letters writing going? Any replies? If not don't worry, as long as you let your opinions be known to the same people the sc contacted.

I got an email today from Stantons office, the usual "we have received and will be in touch" yadda yadda yadda.

plinker66 · 14-03-2018 10:12am

Update
A survey form has been sent to all FCP members and potential members by D.O.J. On it are questions about who they represent, membership numbers, elections etc. Difficult to bs your way out of this but we know who we are dealing with

BattleCorp · 14-03-2018 10:17am

plinker66 wrote: »

Update
A survey form has been sent to all FCP members and potential members by D.O.J. On it are questions about who they represent, membership numbers, elections etc. Difficult to bs your way out of this but we know who we are dealing with

I hope the Minister does his due diligence and just doesn't accept at face value the number of people certain organisations on the FCP claim to represent.

Cass · 14-03-2018 1:38pm

............. and now the danger of the nasrpc being affiliated to or a member of the so called coalition becomes clear.

With the membership numbers of the nasrpc the so called coalition seem to be a strong force and without the nasrpc they are nothing.

The nasrpc needs to step up to the plate and declare, openly and without the bullsh*t i've been fed so far, where they stand.

plinker66 · 14-03-2018 3:31pm

The way i see it the nasrpc would have to relinquish their right to represent themselves by having sc represent them or they withdraw from sc and take their own seat either way one seat would be the most they would be entitled to instead of five

BattleCorp · 14-03-2018 4:22pm

plinker66 wrote: »

The way i see it the nasrpc would have to relinquish their right to represent themselves by having sc represent them or they withdraw from sc and take their own seat either way one seat would be the most they would be entitled to instead of five

I don't think the NASRPC would lose their seat on the FCP as they were given the seat at a time when they weren't members of the SC.

By the way, there is no entitlement to seats on the FCP no matter how many shooters an organisation represents. Which organisations get a seat or seats at the table is decided by the Minister.

But as Cass said, if the NASRPC left the SC, then the SC would be a pretty hollow organisation representing very few shooters.

I can only assume from the NASRPC silence on the matter that they are happy to be part of an organisation that appears to be doing harm to the interests of shooters.

Someone can correct me if I'm mistaken but do the FCP have sub-committees that meet and make submissions to the Minister without the involvement of the rest of the FCP? If so, that's dangerous territory right there.

Maybe I'm being naïve but would it not be better to have everything discussed by everyone to prevent stupid proposals being forwarded to the Minister? Because if the Minister implements them, he can always say "The FCP recommended that" when in fact it was just a small group that met in secret within the FCP.

Sparks · 14-03-2018 4:53pm

Someone can correct me if I'm mistaken but do the FCP have sub-committees that meet and make submissions to the Minister without the involvement of the rest of the FCP? If so, that's dangerous territory right there.

Unless it's changed, the sub-committees being formed and their terms of reference would be known to the entire FCP; they'd operate independently because that's what they're for; and they'd submit their results to the FCP as a whole.
Whether that constitutes a seperate step to submitting them to the Minister is a bit fuzzy because the FCP is nominally chaired by the Minister (but that's always devolved to the relevant Principal Officer because it'd be silly otherwise) so by presenting to the whole FCP, you automatically show the Minister the idea, even if only nominally.
Whether the whole FCP approves it, that's obviously a different matter.

And that was how it originally worked and how this sort of thing normally works; if specific changes have since been made, I don't know about them.

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Sports Coalition boycotts FCP

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County