The glorious 12th

steddyeddy wrote: »

DC you say you have a respect for your community but I don't think that's true. When confronted with rampant sectarianism, murderers venerated and the obsession that the loyalist community have with "hating Irishness" you lack the conviction to defend it. Instead you repeat "well the other side do it too".

Maybe it's time for the community to grow up a bit and take responsibility. The other side are not responsible your actions or the offence that's caused by your blatant sectarianism. Nor is anyone who disagrees with you a "republican".

Imagine you're talking to someone from outside Ireland who sees the 12th of July on TV, the sectarian songs and the presence of serial killers in the Orange Order. They might express distaste for all the above so how would you respond to defend the community you love?

"Well the other side do it too".

Please, please DC if you have any power in your community you need to teach the meaning of responsibility to anyone who will listen. We're all responsible for our actions now. Your community, one of the poorest in Ireland and the UK has stagnated for decades because of this refusal to move on and take responsibility.

SteddyEddy. I amazed at the blinkered attitudes on here. Now it could be that many are relying on Republican propoganda and storytelling to get their news/history.
I have just told you how I have strongly campaigned for change on the anthem played at NI matches, because I love my team and every player, no matter what their background, and it is more important to me that every catholic in our team can have ownership and be emboldened by the anthem than to have some jingoistic win over those that don't like us.
So that contradicts what you are saying above
In contrast every single nationalist posters on here, when confronted with the fact that playing the ROI anthem at home rugby matches is upsetting and offensive to Some Ireland team members, never mind fans, The attitude is basically 'we don't give a sh1t'. Am i reading this wrong?? ....and I haven't even mentioned the fact that when the teams joined there was a promise to play GSTQ when they played in the north which has obviously been broken.
But I am really interested in whether you 'don't give a sh1t' about the feelings of northern players?????

You see the problem with many on here is that they think they are non-sectarian. I have travelled a journey which has lead me to understand that i am sectarian. I work on it to decrease it - but non the less I am sectarian (I can't be anything else growing up here). But here is the key, I am also strongly anti-sectarian ie I am working to end sectarianism. What frustrates me with many of the posters is that they can't even start that work until they recognise their own sectarianism. Believe it or not I challenge the sectarianism in my own community in the same way as I challenge it in the nationalist community - Understandably harder to do in ones own community

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You don't want the British anthem at soccer games but you think it is sectarian not to have it at rugby games?

The British anthem is neither yours nor ours downcow, it is the UK's or Britain's and neither the NI soccer team nor the Irish Rugby team represent the UK, they have their own national teams.
Another debunking of the notion that NI is a 'country'.

Francie you are twisting again.
I want neither SS or GSTQ at rugby games. I think you know that by my approach to NI games

munsterlegend wrote: »

Are you for real? Ira songs? They listened to rebel songs on the way to the match celebrating Irish freedom and that is somehow justification for sectarian bigotry?

Munsterlegend, I would be disgusted if the NI team, or England team for that matter, listened to anti-irish songs on the way to playing ROI. But you can excuse it. Fairly shocking.
I can assure you Billy Bingham wasn't engaging his team in that type of stuff on the way to the game - but sure hes the biggot

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who said he had sectarian views?

I said he was winding the sectarian chants up that night. Turning to the crowd and urging them to keep it up.

It's history now ...that night. I doubt we here are going to rewrite it.

More nonsense. This whole urban myth revolves around one hand gesture BB made to the fans behind him. A little raised hand gesture encouraging even more noise. I have seen endless players and managers do it. The NI players do it very often, i think because of that special connection between them which few teams reach. Its a call for 'help us, we need a lift'. I was behinb BB and Nothing sectarian was being sung at the time. Just amazing how that encouragement from Billy has been misconstrued, but sf etc are masters at that

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The anthem represents Ireland downcow, as the Scotland or Welsh one represents those countries. GSTQ is the English anthem. Ireland's call is a concession to a province without an anthem.

Sadly Francie you refuse to accept the reality. In international law NI is distinct from ROI. Many sporting organisations allow the two countries to play together as one unit - quite a concession, can you imagine if Portugal and Spain told FIFA we ant to play as one unit.

So the reality in every world other than Francie's is that the SS is not the Anthem of NI.
But sure you just continue to live in Francie's world

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But the reality was, the south celebrated with you when you qualified for Spain. It was the antics of Bingham and his squad and your supporters that ruined that. Nothing else.

You always have to be the 'victim' though. :rolleyes:

I completely understand. Its a bit like the stuff around poaching that has ruined possibility of an harmonious relationship between the two associations - not to mention the recent rebel song singing by your great chief when he thought no one was recording.

I am very opposed to the two teams ever considering uniting so its all music to my ears

downcow wrote: »

More urban myth. What do you believe about the location of the stadium??

The Village area to the north, was traditionally a unioinist area but for decades now it has been an eclectic mix of students of all denominations, ethnic minorities and yes still significant num,bers of unionists. To the front (east) (and main entry point) is the Lisburn Road - we are always reminded by nationalist politicians when flags go up, that this is a mixed but predominantly nationalist area. To the south is commercial mixed area with no housing. To the west and the other main entrance, is the Boucher Road 100% commercial area and no housing until just 500m where you enter republican West Belfast with the famous Rock Bar only 1km from Windsor.

The irony is that both Casement Park (gaa) and Kingspan (ulster rugby) are both situated in the heart of, and surrounded by single identity partisan residential populations, Windsor Park is in a very mixed and commercial area. But the amazing spin makes people in the South think the opposite.

It a bit like the claim that Windsor Park is named after royalty, which is also urban myth

Care to comment munsterlegend

I was referring to it being on in Belfast. It’s amazing how selective your hearing is when it came to greysteel chants and some nerve to lecture us on our non divisive anthem given your team still flies the sectarian flag.

The FAI had a duty to protect its players and supporters and were fully entitled to have requested it to be moved. Given the antics in the stadium that request was fully justified. Thankfully no one got seriously hurt mostly sure to republican fans not going. Anyway the north have zero chance of qualifying for a World Cup so the sooner they link up with us the sooner they might have a chance again. All Ireland league discussions are a positive move in the right direction.

downcow wrote: »

Complex question. It would be easier for me to duck it but that’s not my style.
I have lots of middle class grammar school rugby playing friends who support them. Indeed many are orangemen etc. They seem to be able to detach the trappings from the guys on the pitch and clearly the reason is that their Ulster hero’s are playing.
I put games on tv torn. Often genuinely wanting to support Rory and his team mates but by the time I have seen Rory etc endure two renditions of the ss I am turned off and ambivalent to who wins.
Call me what you like but we are all a product of our experience and a very nasty history.
If the anthem was dropped that would be transformational for me and I would forgive the hierarchy for all the broken promises about games alternatively north and south etc.
I guess that is why I am so passionate about getting our own house in order by dropping gstq from ni matches.
I am also not a huge rugby fan so maybe I don’t get the nuinces

Dublin is the national stadium and rugby needs the money to keep afloat. That arrangement was made in the amateur days.

munsterlegend wrote: »

Dublin is the national stadium and rugby needs the money to keep afloat. That arrangement was made in the amateur days.

I have told you I understand and that is a broken promise I can forgive without even requesting a good Will gesture in return.mind you your argument is weak as the under 21s could at least play their games in Ulster

downcow wrote: »

I have told you I understand and that is a broken promise I can forgive without even requesting a good Will gesture in return.mind you your argument is weak as the under 21s could at least play their games in Ulster

As for u20s yeah they could go to Belfast. But under no circumstances could gstq be played just like against Italy a few years ago in the World Cup warm up.

munsterlegend wrote: »

As for u20s yeah they could go to Belfast.

Thanks. My point exactly. They could but they don’t

munsterlegend wrote: »

Our anthem Amhran na Bhfiann is nothing as divisive as gstq. As explained countless times it’s player in the republic only and not outside. Rory best is a proud Irish player as were many more with a Unionist identity. The vast majority of northern athletes will represent the tricolour next year in Japan.

When you get your house is order we can discuss on an overall basis the inevitable unification of this island and what would be acceptable emblems/anthems.

You are in FrancieWorld!
lol

munsterlegend wrote: »

Our anthem Amhran na Bhfiann is nothing as divisive as gstq. As explained countless times it’s player in the republic only and not outside. Rory best is a proud Irish player as were many more with a Unionist identity. The vast majority of northern athletes will represent the tricolour next year in Japan.

When you get your house is order we can discuss on an overall basis the inevitable unification of this island and what would be acceptable emblems/anthems.

Also gstq was an anthem imposed by a Protestant majority on a minority. At the commonwealth games they fudge the issue as they know how divisive it is.