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Syrian refugee student wins state scholarship

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    #62
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    1641 wrote: »
    Criteria for the William Campbell bursary:

    "Each candidate must submit a completed application form and provide evidence from the CAO that he/she has applied for a Zoology, Medicine, Physiology or Biomedical Sciencescourse as their first choice.Third level courses of four or more year’s duration, listed as Zoology, Medicine, Physiology or Biomedical Sciencescourses on the careers portal link and pursued at a publicly funded Higher Education institution will be considered.To be awarded a bursary a student must be accepted on to and be attending a course that meets these criteria."

    "3.The Order of Merit
    The Professor William C Campbell bursaries, shall be awarded to the eligible candidate who has made an application which meets the approved course criteria outlined above, and who has the highest number of marks on their exam papers in any combination of two science subjects counted for CAO purposes, one of which must be biology. In the event of two or more candidates being considered of equal standard the order of merit be determined by reference to the performance of the candidate in all six best subjects. If the total marks achieved by two or more candidates remainthe same, the order of merit shall be determined by reference to the candidates’ achievement in his/her best subject."


    Fair play to her (even if they did play the system)

    I didn't read the links to the bursary rules, but in the original article I saw I thought that it said the bursary was for disadvantaged or DEIS schools.

    Do those schools have separate entry routes into the medical schools (Like Trinity has the Trinity Access Program)?

    It mentions that she didn't go to a local school because of subject choice......perhaps that's true or perhaps they were planning ahead maybe....but then going to those schools would probably disadvantage you a bit in terms of marks but if you were a diligent student, maybe not so much. But even if they were making the best of the system, they were just being on the ball and not doing anything that an Irish born family couldn't do.


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    #63
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    the girl's achievements are not at issue here


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    #64
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭1641


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Fair play to her (even if they did play the system)

    I didn't read the links to the bursary rules, but in the original article I saw I thought that it said the bursary was for disadvantaged or DEIS schools.

    Do those schools have separate entry routes into the medical schools (Like Trinity has the Trinity Access Program)?


    The bursary award is confined to students who did there Leaving Cert through Deis schools. But the entry to the actual course is via the normal points system.

    This is the first year of the award. So probably bigger publicity than normal.


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    #65
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    She's been here 3/4 years. Her father remained in Dubai working. Why didn't her parents (who are both highly educated engineers) apply for a Critical Skills visa while in Dubai? There would have been no need for the "nightmare" that was DP. Engineering Professionals is one of the critical skills that can get visa's.

    Something seems off with this.

    Fees for foreign med students are very high I think.

    If that was the plan from a few years out, it might have been worth it from a financial perspective to get status here. I assume that asylum seeker who successfully obtain status can get access to third level the same as an Irish born person who satisfied the residency requirement. But to get that status they had to satisfy the requirements for that too so the officials processing that obviously felt they did....and they seemed to have a relatively short time in DP so they must have hard good evidence of being genuine in order to get processed quickly.

    Anyway, the med schools admit plenty of wealthy Middle Eastern students who don'e even satisfy normal minimum requirement but whose governments hand over large sums of money. So people can't be getting their knickers too much in a twist over alternate admission requirements. Maybe this girl didn't get the absolute number a CAO person would need via the normal route but sure no harm overall.


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    #66
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    1641 wrote: »
    The bursary award is confined to students who did there Leaving Cert through Deis schools. But the entry to the actual course is via the normal points system.

    This is the first year of the award. So probably bigger publicity than normal.


    Possibly. I didn't know. I thought they might have a mechanism to take in "disadvantaged" students via a different route as a lot of universities now have that. But I didn't know whether they did. You say they don't so that's grand. I wasn't saying they did. Was just asking in case it explained the alleged discrepancies stated on this thread (i.e. it would explain how a student might have legitimately obtained admission without having the normal "CAO" points)


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    #67
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭1641


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    the girl's achievements are not at issue here


    I could point to several posts that suggest otherwise.

    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Anyway, the med schools admit plenty of wealthy Middle Eastern students who don'e even satisfy normal minimum requirement but whose governments hand over large sums of money. So people can't be getting their knickers too much in a twist over alternate admission requirements. Maybe this girl didn't get the absolute number a CAO person would need via the normal route but sure no harm overall.


    The award is only open to students who get admittance to the relevant course through the normal CAO route.


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    #68
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Palmach


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You think the body that awarded the scholarship should have to prove to you that she got the points? Why? It’s not your money, it’s not your business.


    It is a state scholarship and therefore tax payer's money so it is our business and it is our money.


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    #69
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Palmach


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    She's been here 3/4 years. Her father remained in Dubai working. Why didn't her parents (who are both highly educated engineers) apply for a Critical Skills visa while in Dubai? There would have been no need for the "nightmare" that was DP. Engineering Professionals is one of the critical skills that can get visa's.

    Something seems off with this.


    I get the whiff of rattus rattus myself.


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    #70
    thechewyone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 42 ✭thechewyone


    Good to see identity politics are alive and well in SJW Ireland. :rolleyes:

    Now we all get to waste our money paying for an economic migrant's education to placate the "everyone who disagrees with me is a big bad wasissssst" types , only for her to feck off somewhere else as soon as she graduates. And that is the best case scenario, because if she stays who knows what her motive is or what rules her and her 'new Irish' friends will be dictating to us in 10 years time. Who knows what 'Irish' will even mean by then, will it mean Irish or will it have been replaced by something else?

    Yet another black mark on our collective national copy book.


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    #71
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    1641 wrote: »
    I could point to several posts that suggest otherwise.





    The award is only open to students who get admittance to the relevant course through the normal CAO route.


    Possibly. But from the rules quoted on thread it wasn't explicitly stated that. I think they stated that the person had to have applied through the CAO for a course (they could have applied via two routes, no? ....put in a CAO application and also some other parallel deis related application - if one existed). It also says they have had to got the highest number of CAO points of all eligible applicants.

    I don't know. I'm just asking. The letter of the rules might be a bit different to what one thinks they say upon first reading.

    To be clear, I'm not complaining. Fair play to her. I'm just trying to tie together some of the contradictory post on here. Even if she got a bit less than normal points, sure she obviously did well enough and most likely in a language that was not her native language! Let the moaners on here feck off to Poland or somewhere for a few years and do the equivalent of the LC over there in Polish in a couple of years and report back on how they got 100% in everything.


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    #72
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,914 ✭✭✭circadian


    Sweet jesus, a good news thread getting dragged down by the usual ****e. Well done CA.


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    #73
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,131 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    LillySV wrote: »

    Normally when a person gets a scholarship and receives public acknowledgement for their achievements, their results are published. It didn’t happen here though

    I think if someone is getting a scholarship (money from public purse) it should be clear why .... achievement stated etc

    And I’m referring to anyone who gets scholarship... whether they Irish, Syrian. American , British ..,..

    Not so. The JP McManus awards never publish the points their recipients got - precisely because they take more into account than just the results.


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    #74
    Tasfasdf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Tasfasdf


    Can mod change the title to Girl leaves Dubai and claims asylum and get free education


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    #75
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Boggles wrote: »
    Jaysus, an alarm must have went off some where, they are in trying to discredit the female fordiner.

    This girl is exceptional and not reflective of people that arrive through the asylum process.

    I won't dare discredit her achievements. However, it is intellectually healthy for Irish people to question the narrative being spun by Irish media in relation to all issues. If there is a highlighting of the RCSI girl, we should also take note of the violence and the fraud that the 'system' brings to Ireland. Do you feel the media has balance in this regard over the last two decades?


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    #76
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Palmach


    spurious wrote: »
    Not so. The JP McManus awards never publish the points their recipients got - precisely because they take more into account than just the results.


    Which is a private award. This is funded by the taxpayer and we have a right to know.


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    #77
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,652 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    topper75 wrote: »
    This girl is exceptional and not reflective of people that arrive through the asylum process.

    I won't dare discredit her achievements. However, it is intellectually healthy for Irish people to question the narrative being spun by Irish media in relation to all issues. If there is a highlighting of the RCSI girl, we should also take note of the violence and the fraud that the 'system' brings to Ireland. Do you feel the media has balance in this regard over the last two decades?

    I have literally not a scooby what you are saying.

    There is individuals on the thread calling for her to be investigated further.

    Just be happy for the girl and move on FFS.


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    #78
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭1641


    Palmach wrote: »
    Which is a private award. This is funded by the taxpayer and we have a right to know.


    Third level education is funded by the taxpayer. So presumably you will insist that everyone attending has their qualifications published so that you can satisfactorily verify their eligibility.


    Ditto third level grants.


    Social Welfare is payed for by the taxpayer. You will of course want everyone's circumstances published so that you can verify that they qualify.


    Ditto medical cards.


    Add to the list as you like. But if this bursary was won by a white Irish national (as no doubt it will in the future) there will be no such call.


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    #79
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    I saw this lady on the news last night. She must be smart and resilient. Best of luck to her on her education and career. I hope she doesn't leave Ireland after college. We need more shining lights like her.


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    #80
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,562 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I can just imagine some of the posters sitting at a keyboard somewhere, stewing impotently at this. 'Need a negative, find a negative somehow.'

    It warms the heart to think of the bilious anger of boards' regular chronic malcontents.


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    #81
    the dark phantom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭the dark phantom


    Delighted for her.


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    #82
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Kivaro wrote: »
    She and her parents were living in one of the wealthiest (and expensive) countries on the planet for 3 years before the mother and daughter came to Ireland for asylum. Her father worked away in the UAE while they were in Ireland. Both of her parents are engineers. It also seems that the RCSI have a presence in the UAE, but the fees are high there, as you can imagine for the UAE.

    I was hopeful that when I first saw the story that the girl had arrived from war-torn Syria, worked hard at school here, and deservedly received a scholarship for her studies at the Royal College of Surgeons Ireland. Maybe they were persecuted during their 3 years in the UAE, but I'm sure she would have mentioned it ............... as it would have probably been worse than living one year in an Irish DP centre.

    Don't know if we are getting the full story here, but I'm sure that the Irish Times and RTE will tease it out .........

    Ya I wonder though was there a situation of secondment for work, don't know what the visa situation is/ was at the time. Alot of very normal people were and are displaced. Normal people who aren't poor are awarded scholarships too, we all got them for something or another around junior cert time from Siptu.

    I have a very close Palestinian friend half of who's family is in Jordan, the other half are in Palestine. He was basically smuggled into Palestine this summer for the first time in almost 20 years to visit them. He is not allowed as a new Jordanian citizen to go there. He is currently seeking citizenship in the European country that we live in. He was University educated here, has a doctorate, is considered a highly skilled migrant and has been a salaried worker for years but I'm pretty sure his family would basically need to make applications as refugees aswell despite his situation.

    It's a complicated world. Lucky them that they're engineers, lucky her that she will be a doctor- can't we just be happy for them? Syria was a lovely place by all accounts, not a third world country, so engineers/doctors would translate to pretty much the same thing as it does in Ireland and not any more elite/ prestigious.


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    #83
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    LillySV wrote: »
    Normally when a person gets a scholarship and receives public acknowledgement for their achievements, their results are published. It didn’t happen here though

    I think if someone is getting a scholarship (money from public purse) it should be clear why .... achievement stated etc

    And I’m referring to anyone who gets scholarship... whether they Irish, Syrian. American , British ..,..

    No you don't. Come off it.

    You're insinuating that she got the scholarship solely on account of her status as a refugee/foreign national/et al, and that the omission of her results is indicative of this.


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    #84
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    osarusan wrote: »
    I can just imagine some of the posters sitting at a keyboard somewhere, stewing impotently at this. 'Need a negative, find a negative somehow.'

    Yup, that's exactly what is going on with a lot of posters in this thread.


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    #85
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Snotty wrote: »
    UAE weren't going to pay her 5k or almost free education.
    Well done to her, but don't make it out that her and her family are anything other than economic migrants.

    Okay there's a few things.

    I remember most of the Gulf states saying that they had accepted exactly zero refugees from the Syrian Civil War a couple of years ago. Perhaps long term residency wasn't an option in UAE?

    Are we certain that her and her family are asylum seekers? Presumably her parents would have been eligible for work visas.
    Edit: Apparently they came as asylum seekers. Not 100% sure why

    The scholarship seems a little bit irrelevant to me. Either she is eligible for free frees (and then the scholarship is a little superfluous) or she isn't eligible for free-fees (in which case she'd be liable for €30K fees) and the scholarship would only be a drop in the ocean.
    osarusan wrote: »
    I can just imagine some of the posters sitting at a keyboard somewhere, stewing impotently at this. 'Need a negative, find a negative somehow.'

    It warms the heart to think of the bilious anger of boards' regular chronic malcontents.

    This can literally be said for anything.


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    #86
    fergus1001
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    well done that's all that has to be said

    everyone giving out is

    1. being a troll
    2. being racist


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    #87
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,131 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Palmach wrote: »
    Which is a private award. This is funded by the taxpayer and we have a right to know.

    I would expect GDPR comes in. Individual SEC results are not published anywhere, unless of course the individual allows them to be.

    I really don't care what marks she got. Good luck to her.


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    #88
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Sincere congratulations to this young lady. We need folk like her.


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    #89
    dvdman1
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭dvdman1


    fergus1001 wrote: »
    well done that's all that has to be said

    everyone giving out is

    1. being a troll
    2. being racist

    Nobody is giving out about her as an individual and her success. Congratulations etc etc.....
    its more about why this story has been selected for news through RTE and spread to the outlets across the nation.
    Why would that be?


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    #90
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,652 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    dvdman1 wrote: »
    Nobody is giving out about her as an individual and her success. Congratulations etc etc.....
    its more about why this story has been selected for news through RTE and spread to the outlets across the nation.
    Why would that be?

    Why wouldn't RTE report the news? :confused:

    They do "fluff" pieces like this all the time, I've never seen you have a problem with any of the other ones.


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    #91
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭1641


    dvdman1 wrote: »
    its more about why this story has been selected for news through RTE and spread to the outlets across the nation.
    Why would that be?


    Maybe because it is an inspirational story and most people like inspirational stories?


    Someone comes to a new country, new school system, a new curriculum not in her first language, moves through the direct provision system and three years later wins a competitive science bursary by coming top in the relevant subjects and gaining admission to a qualifying third level course - that sounds inspirational to me.

    It also happens to be the first year for the award of the bursary, so that would make it more newsworthy anyway. There was plenty of publicity when the bursary was launched (link below) but that didn't attract controversy. But now it does. I wonder why?
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/new-scholarship-recognises-a-giant-in-the-world-of-science-1.3897596


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