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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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    #122
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Again, we don't have weapons.
    What we have are firearms. Weapons are things that have been used to harm someone.


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    #123
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Not a great safety practice that.

    and you haven't answered the question, what essential purpose does a civilian in Ireland need a semi auto for ?


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    #124
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Not a great safety practice that.
    Nope. Which is why we don't use our sports equipment, farming equipment, birdscarers, athletics equipment, vetinary equipment and hunting equipment for that purpose.
    We've been at pains to point this out to the powers that be for the last decade or two because language shapes thought.
    and you haven't answered the question, what essential purpose does a civilian in Ireland need a semi auto for ?
    Various target shooting disciplines including most of the olympic pistol disciplines; hunting where rapid followup shots are needed either with rifles or shotguns.
    Vets generally don't need them.


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    #125
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Sparks wrote: »
    We've been at pains to point this out to the powers that be for the last decade or two because language shapes thought.

    Indeed it does, as does trying to deny the main purpose live rounds and firearms that fire them are designed for. - Only if they powers that be are gullible, and I don't think they are.
    Sparks wrote: »
    Various target shooting disciplines including most of the olympic pistol disciplines; hunting where rapid followup shots are needed either with rifles or shotguns.
    Vets generally don't need them.

    Not very convincing essential purposes at all.


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    #126
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Not very convincing essential purposes at all.

    Various Ministers for Justice and Garda Commissioners disagree.
    If, however, you want to define "essential" as "life or death" then we get into a very tiresome argument about how you don't actually need your car because Buses and Trains exist and privately driven cars kill hundreds of people every year.
    Meanwhile, target shooting's been going here for 150years or more without a single major injury.

    Like I said, tiresome argument, mainly because this would be the ten thousandth time we'd have had it. Even the powers that be don't think it's worth having anymore.


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    #127
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Sparks wrote: »
    Various Ministers for Justice and Garda Commissioners disagree.
    If, however, you want to define "essential" as "life or death" then we get into a very tiresome argument about how you don't actually need your car because Buses and Trains exist and privately driven cars kill hundreds of people every year.
    Meanwhile, target shooting's been going here for 150years or more without a single major injury.

    Like I said, tiresome argument, mainly because this would be the ten thousandth time we'd have had it. Even the powers that be don't think it's worth having anymore.

    Don't worry I'd say the government's getting a bit wiser now due to the recent experiences in other countries and given the type of people attracted to firearms.


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    #128
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,950 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    No semi auto's in Ireland, that's news to me, are all those semi auto shotguns rifles and pistols here actually illegal ? and what does a civilian in Ireland need a semi auto weapon for ?

    Being a member of an internationally recognised physical disability by the UN medical council which affects 10/12 % of the global pouplation is another very good reason.Called being LEFT handed.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #129
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,950 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Don't worry I'd say the government's getting a bit wiser now due to the recent experiences in other countries and given the type of people attracted to firearms.

    Seeing that you cant buy in the EU a fully automatic or select fire firearm in any gunstotre and are you trying to insinuate ligitimate gunowners are the same as fanatical Muslim terrorists by your comment? The people that need to wise up[ are the Govts themselves that their problem is letting in thousands of potential Jihadists into Europe,and not ligit sporting gun owners.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #130
    Deaf git
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭Deaf git


    Precisely what sort of people are attracted to firearms? In your experience?


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    #131
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Look lads it's nothing personal, but the restriction and reduction of firearms, and the desire for them, is the way any civilized world, country and society is going. A lot of people have had enough of them at this stage.


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    #132
    targetx
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭targetx


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Don't worry I'd say the government's getting a bit wiser now due to the recent experiences in other countries and given the type of people attracted to firearms.

    You seem to have a very narrow minded and uneducated view on the various target shooting sports that are enjoyed by many people in this country in a legal and safe manner.

    Why don't you watch the first segment in the TV show on the following link and see for yourself "the type of people attracted to firearms".

    http://www.irishtv.ie/kildare-matters-26


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    #133
    yubabill1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    No semi auto's in Ireland, that's news to me, are all those semi auto shotguns rifles and pistols here actually illegal ? and what does a civilian in Ireland need a semi auto weapon for ?

    So you reckon we should use equipment that pre-dates the internal combustion engine and the lightbulb in the 21st century?

    Why does a civilian need a motorbike?

    By the way, the guns used in Paris were military automatic weapons, most likely illegally smuggled into the city from a war zone and not civilian semi-automatic firearms.

    You ever eaten anything you've grown, reared or caught? Or does what you eat come in cardboard?


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    #134
    Deaf git
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭Deaf git


    Oh but it is personal. Very personal.
    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you are unfamiliar with the various shooting sports. If you were familiar with the sport you would know the difference between legal gun owners and terrorists/criminals.
    Have an opinion on civilian use of firearms as you wish, but for God's sake will you try to make it an informed opinion.


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    #135
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Think. The will world is continually progressing, and will one day will be a better more civilized place, and reducing firearms, and the desire for them, is part of that, not increasing them.


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    #136
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,950 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Look lads it's nothing personal, but the restriction and reduction of firearms, and the desire for them, is the way any civilized world, country and society is going. A lot of people have had enough of them at this stage.


    Who is alot of people?? And you can restrict and reduce as much as you like,but no matter what the WRONG types of people IE criminals,terrorists or oppressive states will get them no matter what. The genie is out of the bottle and even if you wert to ban all our guns tomrrow ,things like Paris or LA will happen. And proably more so.Even if you did manage to somehow curb the illegal arms market glovally[Which is the thrid major commodity traded on this planet,next to oil and food.] Any terrorist worth their salt could build their own sub machine gun from parts from a plumbing shop and metal work shop.Probly with the leaps in bounds of 3d printing and the internet,any gun banned person can do the same ,if they feel a need for one.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #137
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,950 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Think. The will world is continually progressing, and will one day will be a better more civilized place, and reducing firearms, and the desire for them, is part of that, not increasing them.

    Progress doesnt naturally corrospond with "civilisation" [Whatever the Hell that is!] Advanced civilisations,like the Roman empire fell to barbarians because of many factors .One of them being they had become corrupt,lazy,and had let their military and service with arms to the state go to Hell. Same as we are doing in the West nowadays.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #138
    yubabill1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Think. The will world is continually progressing, and will one day will be a better more civilized place, and reducing firearms, and the desire for them, is part of that, not increasing them.

    Maybe in your suburban Nirvana.

    And bring on world peace, while you're at it.

    You have an extremely prejudiced view of shooters.

    Your pejorative syntax tells me you've spent a lot of time engaging in groupthink with - I was going to say "your mates down in the pub" - people in distant forums.

    Why don't you visit a shooting range to see the people you're judging?

    You might be surprised - we even let females in.


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    #139
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    It may surprise you to learn, but I spent 12 years working with firearms and fired thousands of rounds of ammunition. I'm now completely anti-firearms, especially in the hands of any civilians or off duty police/armed forces for that matter. You'll get over the attraction for firearms when you really think about them, and it sinks in.
    I did.


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    #140
    yubabill1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    It may surprise you to learn, but I spent 12 years working with firearms and fired thousands of rounds of ammunition. I'm now completely anti-firearms, especially in the hands of any civilians or off duty police/armed forces for that matter. You'll get over the attraction for firearms when you really think about them, and it sinks in.
    I did.

    Thousands of rounds...pah, that's nothing.

    Smacking of snobbery, are you?

    civilians are probably not qualified to use firearms, much less be trusted with them.

    Reckon a large number of unqualified civvies on here would embarrass you on the range on your best day - and I come from a military family, including an all-army shot.


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    #141
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,950 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    It may surprise you to learn, but I spent 12 years working with firearms and fired thousands of rounds of ammunition. I'm now completely anti-firearms, especially in the hands of any civilians or off duty police/armed forces for that matter. You'll get over the attraction for firearms when you really think about them, and it sinks in.
    I did.

    Well good for you!!And were you army /police or what?? you sound like an Ex senior police officer with that "mere civilian and no one else but those in uniform can be trusted
    " type statement.So whats your problem with your off duty officers? Is there some sort of magic cloak you put on tht makes you responsible in uniform and when you take it off you are suddenly a potential danger to the public? Thats pretty condesending attitude to have to your brother officers.Or military or even mere civillians..The only differnce between all three groups is training...After all what is a soilder or a LEO?A civillian in uniform TRAINED to do a certain task.
    Well maybe I or someone else might,but unfortunetly,for you just not now thanks!:D Not really into fanatic conversions by those who were on the Damascus road.:)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #142
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    It may surprise you to learn, but I spent 12 years working with firearms and fired thousands of rounds of ammunition. I'm now completely anti-firearms, especially in the hands of any civilians or off duty police/armed forces for that matter. You'll get over the attraction for firearms when you really think about them, and it sinks in.
    I did.

    Thousands of rounds would have covered maybe three weeks of serious training for me at one point.
    And after twenty-two years or so of shooting and having trained about a thousand people to shoot and having represented my country in an Olympic sport, I think I have a different opinion to you as to the attraction of target shooting as a sport.

    I sure as hell would be happier if my kid was on the range instead of playing GAA football given the injury statistics, for example. And while I share your opinion about firearms being used on people - as does pretty much everyone here - I don't share your opinion on the character of the Gardai issuing licences (as you've just implied that they're breaking the law on a massive scale) and the character of people who hold licences.


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    #143
    hexosan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    i think at this stage we all know the easiest way to deal with a troll is don't engage them.


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    #144
    yubabill1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    I'm beginning to think that this person has had a bad experience with firearms, guys.

    He says he's anti firearms, that doesn't usually happen for no reason.

    But that doesn't mean he has a right to dictate.

    I mean, my uncle was mown down by a motorbike, but I didn't blame the bike.

    A lifetime friend and senior NCO used his sidearm on himself on duty 2 years ago, but I don't blame the military for issuing him a pistol.


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    #145
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,950 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Its usually the converts who are the most fanatical and preachy.:rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #146
    Deaf git
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭Deaf git


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    It may surprise you to learn, but I spent 12 years working with firearms and fired thousands of rounds of ammunition. I'm now completely anti-firearms, especially in the hands of any civilians or off duty police/armed forces for that matter. You'll get over the attraction for firearms when you really think about them, and it sinks in.
    I did.

    You are welcome to your opinion and if you were 'attracted' to firearms it's probably best that you now have nothing to do with them. Do you also believe say, Tiger Woods is 'attracted' to golf clubs?


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    #147
    yubabill1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Its usually the converts who are the most fanatical and preachy.:rolleyes:

    In fairness, the majority of people are not born shooters and genuinely can't understand the likes of me.

    When I had no access to a gun as a lad, I got into bows and arrows. I started off with stuff I made and ended-up with sophisticated stuff. I had to do something, it was just in me.

    Reckon a lot of people think it's about insecurity, maybe a guy gets a hiding and wants the gun for a sense of security. Well, I never had those problems, but my life would be miserable without a bit of hunting.


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    #148
    onetimecypher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭onetimecypher


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Well good for you!!And were you army /police or what?? you sound like an Ex senior police officer with that "mere civilian and no one else but those in uniform can be trusted
    " type statement.So whats your problem with your off duty officers? Is there some sort of magic cloak you put on tht makes you responsible in uniform and when you take it off you are suddenly a potential danger to the public? Thats pretty condesending attitude to have to your brother officers.Or military or even mere civillians..The only differnce between all three groups is training...After all what is a soilder or a LEO?A civillian in uniform TRAINED to do a certain task.
    Well maybe I or someone else might,but unfortunetly,for you just not now thanks!:D Not really into fanatic conversions by those who were on the Damascus road.:)

    Remember how many Gardai or soldiers were killed by FRIENDLY FIRE


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    #149
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,950 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Wasnt that one of Murphys laws of combat?"Friendly fire..Isn't!"
    @Yuba ,am the same.Coming from a 3rd gen gun and hunting family,its inbuilt in my genes. Be like expecting a pointer to become a cattle herding dog.:)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #150
    onetimecypher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭onetimecypher


    Even further back from here.


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    #151
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Another MEP wrote back to me.
    BattleCorp a chara,

    Thanks for getting in touch and for highlighting your concerns in relation to the European Commission's November 18th proposals.

    In light of the recent attacks and security threats, policy makers are attempting to navigate through some difficult reforms. That being said, legislation that is hastily adopted as is the case here often directly affect law-abiding citizens. After a first reading of the proposals, I am wary of certain parts not least those to ban private ownership of certain firearms including deactivated firearms.

    Sinn Féin acknowledges the support in rural Ireland for traditional rural occupations such as hunting and fishing. While we believe that such activities should be regulated, we also recognise the damage an outright ban on the proposed firearms would have. The focus of the legislation is therefore misplaced. Rather than targeting the illegal trafficking of firearms or fine-tuning those sections restricting internet-trade, the Commission has gone for an outright ban. It can be argued that this regulation would work better by revising the control on possession of such firearms today, for example by requiring proof of need and membership in sports organisations rather than forcing legal owners to hand over possessions.

    This file will come before the European Parliament next year and when it does I will be tabling amendments to make sure that the means of the legislation are better directed towards the legitimate ends.

    Is mise,


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