2021 Masters 10/01/21 -17/01/21

gormdubhgorm · 18-01-2021 8:48am

waynescales1 wrote: »

The Masters trophy is quality.

I prefered the gold one Hendry was allowed to keep. It was be far the classiest looking trophy.

The way yan plays he could be around for another 25 years of top snooker like John Higgins. Yan seems to have a bit of humour about him as well, despite his limited English.

Pogue eile · 18-01-2021 12:14pm

mistermiyagi wrote: »

Definitely. And some of the most sensational frames you could wish to see. Wilson/Mcgill decider, Ronnie/Selby decider, Judd/Robertson decider, frame 9 tonight.
The likes of Parrott and Davis definitely don't watch a whole lot outside their own tournaments though. I think I heard Davis question whether Yan would be a top 16 at Sheffield. He's world no 11, and just won the masters.

oops

The Nal · 18-01-2021 12:19pm

So Hendry says he may play in the Welsh but also that he hasn't been practising.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/snooker/2021/0118/1190382-hendry-delays-return-to-avoid-embarrassing-himself/

mrunsure · 18-01-2021 1:58pm

mistermiyagi wrote: »

I think I heard Davis question whether Yan would be a top 16 at Sheffield. He's world no 11, and just won the masters.

That's not as silly as it sounds. Yan had a poor season before the Masters so could drop out of the top 16 seeds if other players do much better than him in the forthcoming tournaments. He's currently only 18th on the one year list so might not qualify for the Players' Championship, and therefore miss out on the substantial ranking points on offer there, which would further reduce chances of being seeded for Sheffield.

Joe_ Public · 18-01-2021 2:17pm

Anything is possible and being out of german masters doesnt help, but would be amazed if yan was out of top 16 come the worlds. Has a near 80k cushion between him and 17th spot and not a lot of points to drop, so very hard to see 6 players passing him before then, however many tournaments to play. Would definitely like to qualify for players to make sure and not too many opportunities left to do that, it has to be said.

tanko · 18-01-2021 6:50pm

Did anyone else think that the pockets especially the corner pockets were playing very generously to put it mildly this week or was i just imagining that a lot of balls looked like there was no way they were going in on the way to the pocket, hit the jaws a couple of times and dropped.
There was a lot of centuries this week, i didn't think the overall standard of play was anything out of the ordinary.

zuutroy · 18-01-2021 7:06pm

Lots of dubious ones sliding in off the jaws alright. Dale said it a couple of times.

18-01-2021 7:29pm

Been like that the last few comps I've watched - whether it's different cushions/cloth/angle-pocket configuration; or whatever, it does seem like a lot are going in that have no right to... If that's the case I suppose it's no harm to 'vary conditions' a tad - in football the ground be's different depending on the weather, and the dimensions can be slightly different from one pitch to another (GAA anyway - not sure about soccer)..

But; conditions varied comp to comp, or no; it's only fair imo that all the tables ('outside' ones too) in the individual competitions play the same...

Joe_ Public · 18-01-2021 8:55pm

I think its likely mostly due to the slickness of the cloths, balls tend to slide in as opposed to rattling and staying out. The "bump" on the pocket is slightly less sharp than previously to accommodate the ultra thin cloths. I'm far from an expert admittedly but thats my understanding anyway. I think the rasson tables they use for champion of champions are the most generous of all and i dont know when the current deal with star is up, but it wouldn't surprise me to see rasson taking over the full tour sometime soon.

Dont think you can ever get 2 tables exactly the same, so many outside factors can affect conditions in different ways. Witness how many players dont love playing in china because of erratic table conditions or the table at the crucible (no.2 i think) that invariably seems to be bedevilled by big bounces off the cushions every year.

AllForIt · 18-01-2021 11:49pm

tanko wrote: »

Did anyone else think that the pockets especially the corner pockets were playing very generously to put it mildly this week or was i just imagining that a lot of balls looked like there was no way they were going in on the way to the pocket, hit the jaws a couple of times and dropped.
There was a lot of centuries this week, i didn't think the overall standard of play was anything out of the ordinary.

Yes I did notice now that you mention it. Particularly when Gilbert was playing in his last match. His sighting of the angles was a bit off in that match and maybe that's why it was noticeable as he wasn't potting balls as cleanly as he might.

I think the overall problem is consistency. So it doesn't really matter as long as it doesn't get too ridiculous, just that what you get is consistent. In respect of pocket give anyway, some things will always vary slightly due to conditions.

Inviere · 19-01-2021 9:29am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I think its likely mostly due to the slickness of the cloths, balls tend to slide in as opposed to rattling and staying out

Agreed. Didn't the BBC so a segment a few years back, which disproved the notion of generous pockets. They said/showed that the tables are put together using the original moulds from the 70's/80's? They said if those moulds are ever lost/broken, then there's no way to replace them anymore....or something to that effect.

If the above is true, then it really has to be the ever thinning cloth causing this observation. There's been a few balls throughout the tournament where I said "nope" when it's been rolling toward a pocket, only for it to somehow drop.

Joe_ Public · 19-01-2021 11:36am

Inviere wrote: »

Agreed. Didn't the BBC so a segment a few years back, which disproved the notion of generous pockets. They said/showed that the tables are put together using the original moulds from the 70's/80's? They said if those moulds are ever lost/broken, then there's no way to replace them anymore....or something to that effect.

If the above is true, then it really has to be the ever thinning cloth causing this observation. There's been a few balls throughout the tournament where I said "nope" when it's been rolling toward a pocket, only for it to somehow drop.

Yep, they had a table fitter on maybe 2/3 years ago who explained that they had to ever so slightly alter the shape of the bump on the pockets because the cloth was too prone to ripping. I think thats made a difference. One thing i dont recall from before is balls catching the near middle pocket jaw and still dropping, i wince a bit when i see them slide and drop.

I remember being a bit surprised the bbc had that fella on as it kind of went against the standard line they used to promote.

zuutroy · 19-01-2021 11:42am

I think they also had to round off the fall for the same reason which also makes the pockets more receptive.

Joe_ Public · 19-01-2021 12:07pm

Its impossible to know exactly what they do but the whole thing does seem specifically designed to promote high scoring and no harm if it speeds up playing times to boot. And the casual or occasional viewer isnt going to mind at all. Its probably only a few fusty old traditionalists who will make a fuss about it.

I'm not a darts follower but i know a simular type argument has been played out there for years where it's supposedly being made easier to hit trebles by reducing the thickness of the wires on the tv boards. Or something along those lines anyway.

Inviere · 19-01-2021 12:31pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Its impossible to know exactly what they do but the whole thing does seem specifically designed to promote high scoring and no harm if it speeds up playing times to boot. And the casual or occasional viewer isnt going to mind at all. Its probably only a few fusty old traditionalists who will make a fuss about it.

I'm inclined to agree, mostly. It's just pretty jarring when you see a ball dropping that had no business doing so, and a player winning as a result.

Joe_ Public · 19-01-2021 12:39pm

Inviere wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree, mostly. It's just pretty jarring when you see a ball dropping that had no business doing so, and a player winning as a result.

Oh yeah, i think hendry is going to explode some day in the commentary booth. He mostly maintains a stony silence when a "wide" goes and drops in but i bet he's seething inside. Still remember his "is this 9 ball we're playing" quip at the worlds a couple of years back. Personally if i ever see them signing it all over to rasson then I'll stop watching the game for good.

Holy Diver · 19-01-2021 12:56pm

Inviere wrote: »

Agreed. Didn't the BBC so a segment a few years back, which disproved the notion of generous pockets. They said/showed that the tables are put together using the original moulds from the 70's/80's? They said if those moulds are ever lost/broken, then there's no way to replace them anymore....or something to that effect.

If the above is true, then it really has to be the ever thinning cloth causing this observation. There's been a few balls throughout the tournament where I said "nope" when it's been rolling toward a pocket, only for it to somehow drop.

This may not necessarily have confirmed whether the pockets in fact became tighter in the intervening period and have now reverted to that template.

I’m not saying this is the case but there is absolutely no denying that the pockets play much easier. Back in the 2000s there was absolutely no way you could pot any ball down the rail if you hit the near jaw. This made for far more interesting break building as you just had to get pin point position or work around moving the object ball during the break. That aspect of break building is now gone with the generous pockets.

Inviere · 19-01-2021 1:03pm

Holy Diver wrote: »

Back in the 2000s there was absolutely no way you could pot any ball down the rail if you hit the near jaw.

Even hitting cushion first, before you got near the jaw, meant that ball wasn't dropping. Not so today though, you regularly see them contacting the cushion, drifting away from the pocket, catching the knuckle, and then dropping. It's a bit mad

Holy Diver · 19-01-2021 4:33pm

Inviere wrote: »

Even hitting cushion first, before you got near the jaw, meant that ball wasn't dropping. Not so today though, you regularly see them contacting the cushion, drifting away from the pocket, catching the knuckle, and then dropping. It's a bit mad

Exactly. Completely agree.

Newuser2 · 19-01-2021 4:37pm

Back in the day it was a big deal to get a pot along the cushion

Joe_ Public · 19-01-2021 4:38pm

Historically there definitely has been talk about pockets for decades. I have heard it said in the past that pockets were tightened up in the 90s, kind of "hendrified", the way golf courses were said to be "tiger proofed." Dont know whether thats true or not tbh. The only thing you can safely say with absolute certainty is they have changed the nature of the cloths, speeded up the tables and that has changed the game radically.

Inviere · 19-01-2021 4:40pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Historically there definitely has been talk about pockets for decades. I have heard it said in the past that pockets were tightened up in the 90s, kind of "hendrified", the way golf courses were said to be "tiger proofed." Dont know whether thats true or not tbh. The only thing you can safely say with absolute certainty is they have changed the nature of the cloths, speeded up the tables and that has changed the game radically.

Exactly, and whether intentionally or not, balls are being pot that were not falling before as a result.

Arthur Daley · 19-01-2021 5:41pm

I remember you might apply a bit of running side to try and help a pot along the cushion, and a bit of top maybe too, might do no harm. You'd definitely want to avoid check side or screw anyway.

Now though they'd avoid putting side on, no question balls along the cushion are easier now.

Joe_ Public · 19-01-2021 6:11pm

Thats right, if you were on a club table i think you'd still play that cushion shot with a dollop of side. It would be good to hear more player perspective on these things but they dont get asked or dont want to talk about it. I remember ronnie having a bit of a go after a recent masters, maybe 2 years ago, but generally i suspect most of them are happy with quicker and more generous tables. Its nice to have ferocious cue power as judd has, but you can get away without it as i think someone like marco fu does. I think he'd have struggled to do as well as he did 20 or 30 years ago when power was a much more potent weapon.

2021 Masters 10/01/21 -17/01/21

Comments