Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

salmocab · 27-04-2020 12:05pm

Scottmactom wrote: »

Finally looking at who will could replace Cronin in the squad in the 21/22 season?

Hooker situation in the summer of 2021:

Sean Cronin(35)
James Tracy(30)
Ronan Kelleher(23)
Dan Sheehan(22)

Possible academy hookers at that time:

John McKee(21)
Bobby Sheehan(21)
Lee Barron(20)
Ronan Loughnane(20)
Levi Vaughan(20)

This looks like the position with the most potential for a signing, but even still i'm not so sure about that.

I would think signing a hooker to be behind the relatively inexperienced Kelleher could be a difficult one, getting someone good enough to play regular for Leinster but happy to be be behind a young player.

Scottmactom · 27-04-2020 1:11pm

salmocab wrote: »

I would think signing a hooker to be behind the relatively inexperienced Kelleher could be a difficult one, getting someone good enough to play regular for Leinster but happy to be be behind a young player.

I'm sure leinster would be fine with backing Sheehan assuming he continues his ascent.

Buer · 27-04-2020 1:37pm

salmocab wrote: »

Summer 2020 as in a few weeks time?

Sorry, lockdown brain went to mush. Time means nothing anymore.

Exclamation Marc · 27-04-2020 2:57pm

Great interview and article on Stuart Lancaster in the42 today where he talks about, amongst other things, his work during lockdown.

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-leinster-lockdown-5084816-Apr2020/

salmocab · 27-04-2020 5:27pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Great interview and article on Stuart Lancaster in the42 today where he talks about, amongst other things, his work during lockdown.

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-leinster-lockdown-5084816-Apr2020/

He comes across as such a good bloke and he really really likes to get the best out of people even people that have nothing to do with him. I wonder how the GAA thing is done and how they feel he is doing.

Sheep Shagger · 28-04-2020 10:17pm

Glasgow head coach saying the PRO14 title should be awarded to Leinster...

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2020/0428/1135450-declare-leinster-pro14-champions-glasgow-boss-rennie/

Clegg · 29-04-2020 5:04pm

I'd forgotten that Kearney had a massive boot on him. Injuries probably hampered his ability to do this is latter years.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1255527264369999874?s=19

Scottmactom · 29-04-2020 5:06pm

He was never the same attacker after injury took its toll. Hardly unsurprising as it is.

Shefwedfan · 29-04-2020 5:08pm

Clegg wrote: »

I'd forgotten that Kearney had a massive boot on him. Injuries probably hampered his ability to do this is latter years.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1255527264369999874?s=19

He discussed it once in an interview, said he could always do it but very rarely he would be given the chance to kick because of the other players around him

I think he said that he liked to get a early kick in as well if he was going to do this later in the game.....old age setting in but full sure that interview happened

Buer · 29-04-2020 5:18pm

It was a shame he rarely was given the opportunity as he had a bloody cannon.

The one from a similar position against the Maori in the Churchill Cup is more impressive for me as he did it not long after his 20th birthday. It's easy to forget just how young he was when he came through for Leinster. It was his first time playing any sort of adult age rugby for Ireland against a very good Maori side featuring guys like Gibbes, Jane, Messam, Gear and Kahui.

The other kick that stands out in my memory was the penalty against Toulouse in the HEC semi final in 2010 when he stuck a penalty over from just inside his own half (I think) in the p*ssing rain.

Dave_The_Sheep · 29-04-2020 6:00pm

Clegg wrote: »

I'd forgotten that Kearney had a massive boot on him. Injuries probably hampered his ability to do this is latter years.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1255527264369999874?s=19

Pity they didn't include the (also Kearney) mark-touchfinder that led to that lineout. It was a peach.

Scottmactom · 30-04-2020 2:44pm

Evaluating the "young" backs(U24) in leinster setup:

Scrumhalf
Rowan Osborne(U24) - 5'6, 75kg
Hugh O'Sullivan(U22) - 5'10, 81kg
Paddy Patterson(U22) - 5'8, 75kg

None of the three look like future 1st choice players for Leinster. O'Sullivan probably has the highest potential but needs serious game time to develop. Osborne earned a contract during preseason and has looked a capable player at pro 14 level, obviously with some size concerns. Patterson remains in the academy but looks like he could struggle for game time at leinster.

Outhalf
Ciaran Frawley(U23) - 6'3, 90kg
Harry Byrne(U21) - 6'2, 90kg
David Hawkshaw(U21) - 5'10, 85kg

HB looks pegged to be a future star, his ireland squad involvement so early pointing to that. Frawley an option at 10, may either move province or move position if he does indeed lose out to Byrne. Hawkshaw hasn't played since March 2019, what position he focuses on when he returns will be interesting.

Centre
Conor O'Brien(U24)- 6'3, 103kg
Jimmy O'Brien(U24) - 6'0, 90kg
Ciaran Frawley(U23) - 6'3, 90kg
Gavin Mullin(U23) - 6'0, 90kg
Tommy O'Brien(U22) - 6'0, 91kg
Liam Turner(U21) - 5'8, 89kg
David Hawkshaw(U21) - 5'10, 85kg

COB showed a lot of ability last season but has struggled to make the same impression this season, next season will be huge for his leinster career, only U24 outside back with serious size in squad at the moment. JOB has impressed this season at 13 and 15, would question if he has the required size to be a european level player in the centre. Frawley is an option at 12, will he move there? Has the height but is lightweight for a modern 12. Mullin has been a standout in a dominant Leinster A side, has been a 13 only for most of his career, he is however small for a modern centre. TOB made his leinster debut this season and can play all across the backline from 10 out, he is highly rated and needs to identify a position and focus on it. Does he have the size for centre in europe? Turner has been focusing on 7's this season, could play on the wing when he returns another shorter outside centre for modern rugby. Finally Hawkshaw as mentioned above could play 10 or 12 on his return from injury.

Back Three
Hugo Keenan(U24) - 6'1, 91kg
Jimmy O'Brien(U24) - 6'0, 90kg
Jordan Larmour(U23) - 5'10, 86kg
Ciaran Frawley(U23) - 6'3, 90kg
Tommy O'Brien(U22) - 6'0, 91kg
Michael Silvester(U22) - 6'0, 85kg
Liam Turner(U21) - 5'8, 89kg
Aaron O'Sullivan(U21) - 6'2, 91kg
Andrew Smith(U20) - 6'0, 86kg

Keenan has played 15 this season and looks like he could be a good squad player for leinster at the very least with the ability to cover on the wing too. JOB as mentioned above has played some 15 this season and impressed. Larmour is another convert from the wing to fullback, concerns about some of his fullback play remain but obviously a very good rugby player. Frawley as mentioned above is an option at fullback, if he plays there much in the future remains a question. TOB has experience on the wing, but needs to focus on a position if he is to reach his international potential. Silvester was focusing on 7's earlier in the season, then returned to play AIL before injury struck, has featured at 15 primarily but looks to be under pressure when it comes to getting a senior contract.Turner as mentioned above could play the wing when he returns from 7's. O'Sullivan has focused on 7's this season, brings rare size for an irish winger in the leinster system but has work to do to when he returns from 7's duty, Smith was a standout winger in an impressive irish u20's side, he was rumoured to have joined the academy earlier in the season.

Overall there is quite a lot of young talent in leinster setup, although you'd have to say scrumhalf is a weakness in terms of top end talent, that along with not having any physical freaks pushing through in the outside backs, who look like future 30+ cap internationals. Thoughts?

Dravokivich · 01-05-2020 1:41pm

Its odd to see Larmour in there when you are focusing on players still in development / on the fringe.

Scottmactom · 01-05-2020 1:58pm

Larmour is still very much developing as a complete fullback IMO.

Podge_irl · 01-05-2020 2:01pm

Scottmactom wrote: »

Overall there is quite a lot of young talent in leinster setup, although you'd have to say scrumhalf is a weakness in terms of top end talent, that along with not having any physical freaks pushing through in the outside backs, who look like future 30+ cap internationals. Thoughts?

Of all the places to have a weakness scrum half is probably the best anyway. We have two pretty equal options, neither of whom are that old and its unlikely they'd both be away with Ireland. Can afford to wait a couple years for another scrum half to come through.

Scottmactom · 01-05-2020 2:35pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Of all the places to have a weakness scrum half is probably the best anyway. We have two pretty equal options, neither of whom are that old and its unlikely they'd both be away with Ireland. Can afford to wait a couple years for another scrum half to come through.

given track record of scrumhalf development can't be sure it's given one will... huge focus needs to be put on developing some options there..

have had a focus on smaller nippier types of late to not much success.

Scottmactom · 01-05-2020 2:35pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Of all the places to have a weakness scrum half is probably the best anyway. We have two pretty equal options, neither of whom are that old and its unlikely they'd both be away with Ireland. Can afford to wait a couple years for another scrum half to come through.

given track record of scrumhalf development can't be sure it's given one will... huge focus needs to be put on developing some options there.. look at last years final, Hughie on the bench for luke, certainly not what you'd look for.

have had a focus on smaller nippier types of late to not much success.. granted O'Sullivan and Patterson not playing full time in school can't have helped them develop their decision making etc.

The taller standout 9's through the system of late have struggled to stay healthy:

James Kenny(U22/Lansdowne), 6'0
Missed sub academy as a u20 due to injury, was involved last season but got injured again. Playing well for Lansdowne this season as 1st choice.

Cormac Foley(U21/St. Marys), 5'11
Played irish 20's last season as backup, was involved with sub academy this season but got injured playing AIL.

Jack Connolly(U20/DUFC), 6'1
In sub academy this year, but injured for most of the season I believe.

Rob Gilsenan(U19/UCD), 6'1
1st year out of school, injured for most of it.

clsmooth · 02-05-2020 9:26am

I don’t think as a nation we’ve produced that many top drawer scrum half’s (who you could make an argument for as being one of the best in the world) aside from Conor Murray. Wales on the other hand always seem to have a lots of talent at 9. I quality 9 is huge, they’re the player controlling the tempo and touching the ball the most.

Scottmactom · 02-05-2020 10:42am

clsmooth wrote: »

I don’t think as a nation we’ve produced that many top drawer scrum half’s (who you could make an argument for as being one of the best in the world) aside from Conor Murray. Wales on the other hand always seem to have a lots of talent at 9. I quality 9 is huge, they’re the player controlling the tempo and touching the ball the most.

Just because we haven't done so in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't aim to in the future.

Ciaran Scally will always be a good what if.

I know it's been a huge focus of the leinster underage setup to identify players with potential as a 9 and get them the right coaching etc.

AbusesToilets · 02-05-2020 12:08pm

clsmooth wrote: »

I don’t think as a nation we’ve produced that many top drawer scrum half’s (who you could make an argument for as being one of the best in the world) aside from Conor Murray. Wales on the other hand always seem to have a lots of talent at 9. I quality 9 is huge, they’re the player controlling the tempo and touching the ball the most.

Madigan should've been pushed to 9, he would've been a good fit.

Scottmactom · 02-05-2020 12:11pm

Yep, another what if... if Mads was french he'd have almost certainly played 9 when he was coming through.

You'd have to wonder why Cooney didn't develop at Leinster, combo of coaching, opportunity and bad luck?

prawnsambo · 02-05-2020 6:29pm

Today is the 11th anniversary of that game in Croke Park in 2009.

Some highlights here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY9cvhLvzkM

And some mighty hubris in that morning's Irish Times, a snippet of which is quoted below

The organisation? It gave us the farce of Felipe Contepomi’s cocked-up original registration. It managed to let slip easily the best outhalf package it ever had: neat, unshowy David Holwell, who looked the playmaker most likely to let slip the hounds of O’Driscoll and D’Arcy. Even the daft loss of press officer Pat Geraghty has been Munster’s considerable gain. And as for Isa Nacewa: Lord, have mercy.

Last month’s ticketing debacle? Leinster rushed into sales, made a mess of that, as well as the aftermath of the Ticketmaster fiasco. Some genius then tried to strong-arm the province’s clubs with dire threat of consequence should Reds appear in “Blue” seating: ye gods. And the clubs were short-changed and left angry over their miserly allocations.

The Leinster playing style? To the external tracker, there’s evident spoor of internal dissonance. Is the “Real Leinster” the team which wiped Wasps off the RDS pitch, or the side which limped through the later ERC pool games – or is it the limp lot who went down tamely, home and away, to Munster in the Magners?

Well worth a read, if only to have to take your socks off to count the hostages to fortune.

In the interests of balance, there was also a somewhat more understated Leinster viewpoint.

irishbucsfan · 02-05-2020 7:01pm

Anyone know where I could watch the whole game these days?!

Former Former · 02-05-2020 7:03pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

And some mighty hubris in that morning's Irish Times, a snippet of which is quoted below

Dear God, that is delicious.

You'd wonder though, if Munster had won that day, whether Leinster would have gone on to achieve what they did in subsequent years.

CatFromHue · 02-05-2020 7:05pm

Today, he says it is impossible to be humble and much easier to be patronising

That made the win so much sweeter, cos it's true.

Sheep Shagger · 02-05-2020 8:20pm

To think the Munster article was written by a (back then) 40 year old supporter - real cliche childish cringy stuff that reads as bad today as it did back then.

MaybeMaybe · 02-05-2020 8:35pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Anyone know where I could watch the whole game these days?!

I have a copy of it. I just looked at the resolution and it's 352x288 so you probably don't want that!

Buer · 02-05-2020 8:58pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

To think the Munster article was written by a (back then) 40 year old supporter - real cliche childish cringy stuff that reads as bad today as it did back then.

A few years ago, he was brought on some show to discuss it. There was no backing down but, with history now written, he no longer came across as smug or condescending, just bitter. At the time though it was a quite widely held belief. Leinster were regularly ridiculed by a section of the media/rugby public who opined they couldn't see how Munster could lose the game and would canter home.

Some public media figures such as Kiely and David Corkery saw their profile's respectability significantly damaged by their comments in the build up. Corkery was an embarrassment in his behaviour considering he was a former team mate of guys like MOK and BOD.

It's still my favourite ever Leinster game. Not simply because of the opposition and the occasion but because it represented Leinster finally sitting at the top table. People often cite the Quins game as the day Leinster arrived but this was a much bigger statement.

prawnsambo · 02-05-2020 9:41pm

Buer wrote: »

A few years ago, he was brought on some show to discuss it. There was no backing down but, with history now written, he no longer came across as smug or condescending, just bitter. At the time though it was a quite widely held belief. Leinster were regularly ridiculed by a section of the media/rugby public who opined they couldn't see how Munster could lose the game and would canter home.

Some public media figures such as Kiely and David Corkery saw their profile's respectability significantly damaged by their comments in the build up. Corkery was an embarrassment in his behaviour considering he was a former team mate of guys like MOK and BOD.

It's still my favourite ever Leinster game. Not simply because of the opposition and the occasion but because it represented Leinster finally sitting at the top table. People often cite the Quins game as the day Leinster arrived but this was a much bigger statement.

On that, BOD agrees with you. As you can see from the clip below. Also my favourite game, mostly because of the atmosphere and the wobbly feeling that Leinster could do it, but still had 2006 hanging over them. And Contepomi going off and Healy getting sin binned didn't help matters. It was actually that period with Healy in the bin that they really stood up to the pressure.

Great game.

Edit: No idea why that tweet is double posted. I only linked it once. Boards is very broken.

Podge_irl · 02-05-2020 11:50pm

Buer wrote: »

A few years ago, he was brought on some show to discuss it. There was no backing down but, with history now written, he no longer came across as smug or condescending, just bitter. At the time though it was a quite widely held belief. Leinster were regularly ridiculed by a section of the media/rugby public who opined they couldn't see how Munster could lose the game and would canter home.

I am ashamed to say that I had tickets on the hill to the game but decided not to fly home from cambridge at the time as my exams were coming up and it would be a lot of hassle for a game we were likely to lose. Gave the tickets to my brother and watched in the pub and ended up doing not a tap of work while all my fellow students were confused as to what I was so worked up about. Still, he ended up becoming quite a big fan and it was his first experience of a live Leinster game so there is that. I had made it to the Quins game at least as it was nearby and that was a phenomenal experience.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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