Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Shefwedfan

Clegg wrote: »

Remember Steven Sykes? He was in the same boat as Douglas. Was rubbish and clearly didn't want to be here either.

We had to wade through a lot of rubbish before we found some good locks to sign. And now we're at the stage where we can develop our own quality players.

I watched Sykes back in the day when he was in Super Rugby and he looked like the real deal, never took off for him when he got up here.

Yeah_Right

I find it interesting how some players thrive and others fall flat when they move to new countries and competitions. I remember being stunned by Rocky Elsom's performances for Leinster. Couldn't believe he was the same player that I had seen for the Tahs and Australia. Same with Hadleigh Parkes. He looks great playing for Wales but was so average in NZ and SA.

Then there are the likes of Savea, Fekitoa and Cullen who come over with big reps and never live up to the hype. I guess it shows that mental and emotional factors can play a huge role in how a player performs. Is emotional the right word??

Clegg

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I find it interesting how some players thrive and others fall flat when they move to new countries and competitions. I remember being stunned by Rocky Elsom's performances for Leinster. Couldn't believe he was the same player that I had seen for the Tahs and Australia. Same with Hadleigh Parkes. He looks great playing for Wales but was so average in NZ and SA.

Then there are the likes of Savea, Fekitoa and Cullen who come over with big reps and never live up to the hype. I guess it shows that mental and emotional factors can play a huge role in how a player performs. Is emotional the right word??

There were signs that Savea was already on the decline by the time he left New Zealand. Lost his place with the All Blacks in 2017 and never got it back. Cullen was riddled with injuries during his time at Munster though. Wouldn't be too harsh on him. The likes of Fekitoa and Sopoaga are definite underperformers relative to expectations though.

aloooof

It's probably harsh adding him to that list given he was at the tail end of his career, but Mils Muliaina is another example of a player that didn't quite perform as hoped.

swiwi_

I see Ferg is retiring. Reckon he can be pretty damn proud of his efforts through the years. The kind of player you need in spades if you’re not to rely on one or two superstars. Could see him getting into coaching tbh.

Bazzo

aloooof wrote: »

It's probably harsh adding him to that list given he was at the tail end of his career, but Mils Muliaina is another example of a player that didn't quite perform as hoped.

Don't think anyone was expecting anything huge from Muliaina on the pitch, by all accounts what he delivered to younger players off it was pretty invaluable.

Scottmactom

The less said of Mulianina's off pitch activities the better.

El_Duderino 09

Scottmactom wrote: »

The less said of Mulianina's off pitch activities the better.

Humm. But now I want to know about his off pitch activities

Former Former

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Humm. But now I want to know about his off pitch activities

He was charged with sexual assault in the UK, but charges were dropped. It's public record and I presume that's what's being referenced here, but charges were dropped so I'm not sure what the point is.

He'd definitely be an on-field flop though. He was a very bad signing.

Bazzo

Former Former wrote: »

He was charged with sexual assault in the UK, but charges were dropped. It's public record and I presume that's what's being referenced here, but charges were dropped so I'm not sure what the point is.

He'd definitely be an on-field flop though. He was a very bad signing.

I'd imagine so. I've no interest in debating the case but I'd encourage anybody who wants to know more to just Google it and read any of the recent articles about it.

Scottmactom

Sean Cronin 34 today, wonder how long he has left. 1 or 2 more years?

Shefwedfan

Scottmactom wrote: »

Sean Cronin 34 today, wonder how long he has left. 1 or 2 more years?

When is his contract up?

Scottmactom

Could be this season, could be next. Contract lengths aren't announced.

Shefwedfan

I would expect at the end of his next contract. I doubt Leinster would keep him on but it might depend on players coming up after him and if he wants to continue

He still looks very fit and capable

Exclamation Marc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would expect at the end of his next contract. I doubt Leinster would keep him on but it might depend on players coming up after him and if he wants to continue

He still looks very fit and capable

If they're not signing any players, there's no way they should let Cronin leave now. Kelleher is fantastic but with Tracy the only other senior hooker (with Brian Byrne gone - albeit a loan, the tone was that he was leaving permanently), one injury to either Kelleher or Tracy necessitates Dan Sheehan on the bench who has not played a senior game for the team. He's also still a great player, not forgetting he was the joint top try scorer in the HC last year).

Additionally, with Kearney, Fardy, and Ferg all leaving, the need for senior heads, particularly when the internationals are off, is huge.

Scottmactom

Don't think anyone expects Cronin to leave this summer, just a matter of will it be the summer of 2021 or 2022.

El_Duderino 09

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

If they're not signing any players, there's no way they should let Cronin leave now. Kelleher is fantastic but with Tracy the only other senior hooker (with Brian Byrne gone - albeit a loan, the tone was that he was leaving permanently), one injury to either Kelleher or Tracy necessitates Dan Sheehan on the bench who has not played a senior game for the team. He's also still a great player, not forgetting he was the joint top try scorer in the HC last year).

Additionally, with Kearney, Fardy, and Ferg all leaving, the need for senior heads, particularly when the internationals are off, is huge.

Completely agree.

Plus the fact that the players are getting a rest right now must be good for everyone's longevity.

Given leinster are losing Fardy and Tomane and Lowe will be Irish qualified at the end of the year, what should they do about over seas players?

They seem pretty stocked at centre and wing even when Lowe is gone with Ireland. I wouldn't be surprised to see them buy a Hooker.

Scrumhalf could become very light if both JGP and Mcgrath are both called to Ireland squads - but while Murray is around its unlikely.

Exclamation Marc

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Completely agree.

Plus the fact that the players are getting a rest right now must be good for everyone's longevity.

Given leinster are losing Fardy and Tomane and Lowe will be Irish qualified at the end of the year, what should they do about over seas players?

They seem pretty stocked at centre and wing even when Lowe is gone with Ireland. I wouldn't be surprised to see them buy a Hooker.

Scrumhalf could become very light if both JGP and Mcgrath are both called to Ireland squads - but while Murray is around its unlikely.

Fardy should be retained. I accept he takes up a slot on the team but his experience, leadership and the influence he has on those next to him or in the forwards benefits everyone. Players will develop better with him there.

An experienced utility back could be useful but nobody overly expensive. In international weeks, we could be light on experience in the backs.

salmocab

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Completely agree.

Plus the fact that the players are getting a rest right now must be good for everyone's longevity.

Given leinster are losing Fardy and Tomane and Lowe will be Irish qualified at the end of the year, what should they do about over seas players?

They seem pretty stocked at centre and wing even when Lowe is gone with Ireland. I wouldn't be surprised to see them buy a Hooker.

Scrumhalf could become very light if both JGP and Mcgrath are both called to Ireland squads - but while Murray is around its unlikely.

Not sure it’s a given at all that Fardy is leaving. I suspect Tomane out a couple of retirements and one or two lads moving to other provinces is probably the extent of the ins and outs now.

Scottmactom

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Fardy should be retained. I accept he takes up a slot on the team but his experience, leadership and the influence he has on those next to him or in the forwards benefits everyone. Players will develop better with him there.

An experienced utility back could be useful but nobody overly expensive. In international weeks, we could be light on experience in the backs.

They aren't signing anyone.. plenty of talent and enough pro 14 experience to be fine in backline.

El_Duderino 09

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Fardy should be retained. I accept he takes up a slot on the team but his experience, leadership and the influence he has on those next to him or in the forwards benefits everyone. Players will develop better with him there.

An experienced utility back could be useful but nobody overly expensive. In international weeks, we could be light on experience in the backs.

Oh right. I though fardy was going. If he can be retained then he certainly should be. He's worth his weight in gold or maybe silver as he's a big boy.

I agree the main thing they need is a couple of experienced heads. Cronin is one and Ruddock is another along with fardy. Healey might not be included in Ireland teams for much longer so he might be there too.

But you're right that the backs are in need of experience. Ross byrne will probably be here at 10. And Rory o loughlin. And dave kearney on the wing. But none of them are the kind of player were talking about. Yeah maybe a big name utility back with loads of international experience is what they need.

I have to say, I don't think there are any glaring weakness in Amy position. Lots of talent coming through and cover in all positions except Scrumhalf. Hugh o Sullivans could be good but he hasn't had much game time. Who am i forgetting at Scrumhalf?

Scottmactom

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Oh right. I though fardy was going. If he can be retained then he certainly should be. He's worth his weight in gold or maybe silver as he's a big boy.

I agree the main thing they need is a couple of experienced heads. Cronin is one and Ruddock is another along with fardy. Healey might not be included in Ireland teams for much longer so he might be there too.

But you're right that the backs are in need of experience. Ross byrne will probably be here at 10. And Rory o loughlin. And dave kearney on the wing. But none of them are the kind of player were talking about. Yeah maybe a big name utility back with loads of international experience is what they need.

I have to say, I don't think there are any glaring weakness in Amy position. Lots of talent coming through and cover in all positions except Scrumhalf. Hugh o Sullivans could be good but he hasn't had much game time. Who am i forgetting at Scrumhalf?

They don't need an big name utility back and won't be getting one in anyway. Plenty of versatile backs in squad who will get opportunities.

You aren't forgetting anyone notable at scrumhalf, gap there in terms of standout talent coming through system, one of the reasons CC was approached last season. Hugh OS has been playing away for Clontarf this season in the AIL getting valuable experience of playing 9 in actual games, something he hasn't gotten enough of given his school career was played at 15 and he hasn't played much AIL since leaving school due to irish 20's and pro commitments.

Paddy Patterson is in the academy and playing AIL for UCD, but has a lot of work to do.

El_Duderino 09

Scottmactom wrote: »

They don't need an big name utility back and won't be getting one in anyway. Plenty of versatile backs in squad who will get opportunities.

You aren't forgetting anyone notable at scrumhalf, gap there in terms of standout talent coming through system, one of the reasons CC was approached last season. Hugh OS has been playing away for Clontarf this season in the AIL getting valuable experience of playing 9 in actual games, something he hasn't gotten enough of given his school career was played at 15 and he hasn't played much AIL since leaving school due to irish 20's and pro commitments.

Paddy Patterson is in the academy and playing AIL for UCD, but has a lot of work to do.

Rowan Osborne is the other scrum I was thinking of. He's only played a few times this season so hard to say much about him.

I imagine all teams will lose money in the short term so now is probably not the time to splash out. Leinster in a great position to "make do" with the squad it has. They're really and truly well stocked across the squad with established players and young lads with great potential. The battle for centre positions behind Henshaw and ringrose will be great to watch next year.

Scrumhalf is the only position they don't have definite prospects. The investment in Nick Mccarthy didn't work out -they can't all work out. So they're starting again in the position

Exclamation Marc

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Oh right. I though fardy was going. If he can be retained then he certainly should be. He's worth his weight in gold or maybe silver as he's a big boy.

No you're not wrong. He was given a one year extension primarily because of potential World Cup absences and on the back of a brilliant couple of years. He had offers from Japan and the Premiership so he was understandably in demand but I remember he highlighted how he loved playing for Leinster and his family had settled so was happy to stay on. Hopefully he'll get another year as he's worth his weight in gold as you say.

Shefwedfan

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

No you're not wrong. He was given a one year extension primarily because of potential World Cup absences and on the back of a brilliant couple of years. He had offers from Japan and the Premiership so he was understandably in demand but I remember he highlighted how he loved playing for Leinster and his family had settled so was happy to stay on. Hopefully he'll get another year as he's worth his weight in gold as you say.

I have posted this a few times but he has taken up 3 contract, irfu say they have to leave after that. So I don’t think he can stay

Plus IF Leinster asked to change them the uproar from other provinces would be too much for the irfu

Scottmactom

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Rowan Osborne is the other scrum I was thinking of. He's only played a few times this season so hard to say much about him.

I imagine all teams will lose money in the short term so now is probably not the time to splash out. Leinster in a great position to "make do" with the squad it has. They're really and truly well stocked across the squad with established players and young lads with great potential. The battle for centre positions behind Henshaw and ringrose will be great to watch next year.

Scrumhalf is the only position they don't have definite prospects. The investment in Nick Mccarthy didn't work out -they can't all work out. So they're starting again in the position

Osborne has played a lot of 9 in his career both in schools and at AIL level and does the basics well for the position and makes quick decisions, hence why he has jumped ahead of HOS and PP. He is a fine squad player to have but you'd be worried if he was called upon at euro level.

salmocab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have posted this a few times but he has taken up 3 contract, irfu say they have to leave after that. So I don’t think he can stay

Plus IF Leinster asked to change them the uproar from other provinces would be too much for the irfu

As with most irfu rules nothing is ever really officially laid down, it’s more guidelines. Pretty sure there have been a couple of exceptions.

troyzer

salmocab wrote: »

As with most irfu rules nothing is ever really officially laid down, it’s more guidelines. Pretty sure there have been a couple of exceptions.

Burkie1203

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have posted this a few times but he has taken up 3 contract, irfu say they have to leave after that. So I don’t think he can stay

Plus IF Leinster asked to change them the uproar from other provinces would be too much for the irfu

2?

He signed for two seasons, extended for one (to end this summer)

Clegg

Fardy has another season of quality rugby in him. He's been brilliant for his three seasons here and the enforced break will do him good.