Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Scottmactom

Faugheen wrote: »

I think Ben Murphy (the replacement 9 for the Irish 20s) has more upside than all three of them. Still underage for Irish 20s next year too.

Not sure Murphy is even the best 9 at his age grade in leinster. Talented for sure but you'd wonder if he had a different surname if he'd have progressed so quickly..

certainly Rob Gilsenan(UCD) and William Reilly(MU Barnhall) are two 9's to keep an eye on along with Murphy, whenever rugby returns...

Faugheen

Scottmactom wrote: »

Not sure Murphy is even the best 9 at his age grade in leinster. Talented for sure but you'd wonder if he had a different surname if he'd have progressed so quickly..

certainly Rob Gilsenan(UCD) and William Reilly(MU Barnhall) are two 9's to keep an eye on along with Murphy, whenever rugby returns...

Having seen him play, he is definitely a very talented 9. Of course having his father helps but it shouldn’t diminish from the fact he has always been picked ahead of Gilsenin when both were fit. I haven’t seen anything of Reilly to comment.

Scottmactom

Faugheen wrote: »

Having seen him play, he is definitely a very talented 9. Of course having his father helps but it shouldn’t diminish from the fact he has always been picked ahead of Gilsenin when both were fit. I haven’t seen anything of Reilly to comment.

When have both been fit and competing in same side? 2018 leinster schools side? where they both got a lot of gametime rotating at 9.

Since then Gilsenan had a huge SCT campaign for Michaels ending in injury in the final, causing him to miss irish u18 schools and leinster 19's. With his injury problems continuing into this season but impressive greatly when he has played for UCD.

So to say Murphy has always been selected ahead of him is a bit much, for me murphy has benefited from being his fathers son and doesn't look to be someone who you'd flag as a certain future academy 9 and certainly I've heard mixed reports on him since he joined clontarf.

Reilly is an excellent 9, who has started at 9 for Barnhall all season in the AIL as a 18 year old. Overlooked by leinster 19's for whatever reason, probably his club background.

Murphy is a good prospect, but I wouldnt say he is a better prospect at the same age as O'Sullivan or Patterson were. And as I said I wouldn't say he is obviously a better prospect than Reilly or Gilsenan.

Leinster have a patchy record in identifying and developing 9's so it will be interesting to watch.

Scottmactom

Interesting that the top 3 outhalves in the leinster underage setup are from non-traditional areas:

Tim Corkery(Kilkenny RFC)(u19)
Charlie Tector(Kilkenny College)(u18) - wexford native
Fionn O'Hara(Mullingar RFC)(u18)

Shefwedfan

Scottmactom wrote: »

Interesting that the top 3 outhalves in the leinster underage setup are from non-traditional areas:

Tim Corkery(Kilkenny RFC)(u19)
Charlie Tector(Kilkenny College)(u18) - wexford native
Fionn O'Hara(Mullingar RFC)(u18)

Going to have to shut that down :P:P:P

FellasFellas

Scottmactom wrote: »

When have both been fit and competing in same side? 2018 leinster schools side? where they both got a lot of gametime rotating at 9.

Since then Gilsenan had a huge SCT campaign for Michaels ending in injury in the final, causing him to miss irish u18 schools and leinster 19's. With his injury problems continuing into this season but impressive greatly when he has played for UCD.

So to say Murphy has always been selected ahead of him is a bit much, for me murphy has benefited from being his fathers son and doesn't look to be someone who you'd flag as a certain future academy 9 and certainly I've heard mixed reports on him since he joined clontarf.

Reilly is an excellent 9, who has started at 9 for Barnhall all season in the AIL as a 18 year old. Overlooked by leinster 19's for whatever reason, probably his club background.

Murphy is a good prospect, but I wouldnt say he is a better prospect at the same age as O'Sullivan or Patterson were. And as I said I wouldn't say he is obviously a better prospect than Reilly or Gilsenan.

Leinster have a patchy record in identifying and developing 9's so it will be interesting to watch.

I agree with you about our 9 issue. We just don't produce them as much as Munster do. We produced 19 times capped Luke McGrath and 11 times capped Cooney in the space that Munster produced 99 capped Stringer, 86 times capped Murray and a future cap in Casey.

Fintan Gunne looks decent but he's only going into 5th year in school and small enough.

Simon Keogh was our 9 cover in 09, Reddan was from Munster, Isaac Boss was from New Zealand, same with Gibson Park. Leinster really need to find a 9 and start working on the production of them soon.

Scottmactom

FellasFellas wrote: »

I agree with you about our 9 issue. We just don't produce them as much as Munster do. We produced 19 times capped Luke McGrath and 11 times capped Cooney in the space that Munster produced 99 capped Stringer, 86 times capped Murray and a future cap in Casey.

Fintan Gunne looks decent but he's only going into 5th year in school and small enough.

Simon Keogh was our 9 cover in 09, Reddan was from Munster, Isaac Boss was from New Zealand, same with Gibson Park. Leinster really need to find a 9 and start working on the production of them soon.

Ciaran Scally.. what if..

you forgot Chris Whitaker there in your list.

James Kenny(21/Lansdowne) looks to be doing very well in the AIL, finally healthy, I wonder if they'll look at him again.

Below him they obviously looked at Cormac Foley(20/St. Marys) last year and were still evaluating him this season before injury hit him. Jack Connolly(DUFC) was in the sub academy this year but didn't seem to be in contention for the 20's.

Conor Duggan(Castleknock) and Michael Moloney(Blackrock) were both involved with ireland schools at christmas so they are on the radar.

And then next years potential 20's; Ben Murphy(Clontarf), Rob Gilsenan(UCD), Will Reilly(Barnhall) & Matt Cullen(Blackrock).

Scottmactom

Rumoured irish U20's in this year incoming leinster academy class:

Charlie Ward(Tullow RFC/Clontarf)
Joe McCarthy(Blackrock/DUFC)(u19)
Alex Soroka(Belvedere/DUFC)(u19)
Sean O'Brien(Blackrock/UCD)
Mark Hernan(St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Andrew Smith(St. Michaels/Clontarf)

Buer

It will be interesting to see how McCarthy develops. Apparently already 108kg which is an area where our locks normally take a long time to develop so he could potentially be physically ready for senior rugby younger than some other options (only turned 19 a few weeks ago).

Looks like they're trying to address where the development gaps are with Moloney the only back row currently in the academy. I wasn't hugely impressed with Hernan for the Irish side thus far, thought he fell off some tackles that he should have been making.

Excited to see how SOB 4.0 and Soroka take to professional rugby, particularly the latter.

Scottmactom

McCarthy only started playing rugby seriously in 6th year afaik. Well he went to Rock so i'm sure he played it all the way up, but didn't feature in SCT until 6th year.

Be interesting to see if any players officially join straight from school, Chris Cosgrave being the most obvious candidate at the moment.

FellasFellas

Scottmactom wrote: »

Rumoured irish U20's in this year incoming leinster academy class:

Charlie Ward(Tullow RFC/Clontarf)
Joe McCarthy(Blackrock/DUFC)(u19)
Alex Soroka(Belvedere/DUFC)(u19)
Sean O'Brien(Blackrock/UCD)
Mark Hernan(St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Andrew Smith(St. Michaels/Clontarf)

Definitely need a hooker into the sub academy or academy as I'm not sure Levi Vaughan or Ronan Loughnane will cut it. Bobby Sheehan definitely good enough to get a place. Also badly need a 9 as we discussed previously but could be a few years away.

Scottmactom

FellasFellas wrote: »

Definitely need a hooker into the sub academy or academy as I'm not sure Levi Vaughan or Ronan Loughnane will cut it. Bobby Sheehan definitely good enough to get a place. Also badly need a 9 as we discussed previously but could be a few years away.

Think they'll want to see more of Sheehan before announcing him, much like his brother. Might see him and McKee be around for preseason and one joining officially afterward. Or Lee Barron who is coming out of school, it wouldn't be a shock if he joined straight from school. Loughnane/Vaughan will be around sub-academy too.

they'll have several 9's in sub-academy competing for a place, maybe 2. (Murphy, Gilsenan, Cullen & Reilly)

Clegg

One of our best performances in recent years. One where you saw the huge progression the team had.made from the previous year.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1253655309203144704?s=19

PMC83

Any word on Cathal Marsh? Read he left Runy

Scottmactom

What would a potential Leinster U23 side look like?

1. Michael Milne(21)
2. Ronan Kelleher(22)
3. Tom Clarkson(20)
4. Jack Dunne(21)
5. Charlie Ryan(21)
6. Ryan Baird(20)
7. Scott Penny(20)
8. Caelan Doris(22)
9. James Kenny(21)
10. Harry Byrne(21)
11. Andrew Smith(19)
12. Ciaran Frawley(22)
13. Gavin Mullin(22)
14. Tommy O'Brien(22)
15. Jordan Larmour(22)

molloyjh

PMC83 wrote: »

Any word on Cathal Marsh? Read he left Runy

Where did you hear that? Last I heard he had resigned at the end of last year? Has Covid had a big impact on the club?

Shefwedfan

PMC83 wrote: »

Any word on Cathal Marsh? Read he left Runy

Haven’t seen anything, he is still on twitter as a player, he was only resigned in Dec

I know Bastaraud left and back with Lyon

Squidgy Black

PMC83 wrote: »

Any word on Cathal Marsh? Read he left Runy

Dan Carter is linked with RUNY at the moment so if that goes ahead I wouldn't be surprised if he was leaving

Bazzo

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Dan Carter is linked with RUNY at the moment so if that goes ahead I wouldn't be surprised if he was leaving

Yeah, I wouldn't be so sure about that...

https://twitter.com/DanCarter/status/1252710919458578432?s=19

Scottmactom

Michael Bent turns 34 today, while JVDF turns 27.

Both very valuable players for Leinster to date, Bent is undoubtedly nearing the end of his Leinster career and who takes his position as 3rd choice TH looks uncertain right now with 4 candidates potentially competing for it.

Meanwhile is JVDF may be feeling the pressure going forward from a returning Dan Leavy or an emerging Will Connors.

Shefwedfan

Scottmactom wrote: »

Michael Bent turns 34 today, while JVDF turns 27.

Both very valuable players for Leinster to date, Bent is undoubtedly nearing the end of his Leinster career and who takes his position as 3rd choice TH looks uncertain right now with 4 candidates potentially competing for it.

Meanwhile is JVDF may be feeling the pressure going forward from a returning Dan Leavy or an emerging Will Connors.

With the rate of injuries to those positions I dont see it been an issue

How many times have both JVDF and Leavy been fit at the same time?

salmocab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

With the rate of injuries to those positions I dont see it been an issue

How many times have both JVDF and Leavy been fit at the same time?

Plus Leavy can play 6 a bit, he’s hardly the archetypal 7 anyway. There certainly going to be competition all over the backrow but injuries will take the sting out of that

Clegg

VDF is every bit as good as Leavy. They've different skillets that see them excel at different things, but they're both excellent. VDF has been Leinsters best player this season imo.

PMC83

molloyjh wrote: »

Where did you hear that? Last I heard he had resigned at the end of last year? Has Covid had a big impact on the club?

There was a short interview on Pundit arena where one of the Runy coaches was talking about outgoing guys, Bastaraud and Marsh both mention..

Scottmactom

Clegg wrote: »

VDF is every bit as good as Leavy. They've different skillets that see them excel at different things, but they're both excellent. VDF has been Leinsters best player this season imo.

Don't agree Leavy as his best is another level higher than JVDF, which is only revealed at the very highest level against teams like Saracens etc. His injury was a huge factor last season.

irishbucsfan

Scottmactom wrote: »

Don't agree Leavy as his best is another level higher than JVDF, which is only revealed at the very highest level against teams like Saracens etc. His injury was a huge factor last season.

Certainly wasn't "revealed" when Van Der Flier started against New Zealand in 2018.

They're both top players. I'd prefer VDF against some opposition, I'd prefer Leavy against others

Faugheen

Leavy 6, VDF 7.

Easy.

RugbyLover123

Leavy and VDF have had an overlap of about 3 weeks when they’ve both been fit in the last 3 years. Absolute no need for either of them to move anywhere. I wouldn’t be thinking of going anywhere if I was Connors or Penny either. The likelihood of 3 of them, let alone 4 of them, all being fit for an extended run is highly unlikely.

Shefwedfan

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Leavy and VDF have had an overlap of about 3 weeks when they’ve both been fit in the last 3 years. Absolute no need for either of them to move anywhere. I wouldn’t be thinking of going anywhere if I was Connors or Penny either. The likelihood of 3 of them, let alone 4 of them, all being fit for an extended run is highly unlikely.

Exactly, also Leinster each season plan to play to finals of Pro 14 and HC...


Plus a good percentage will plan to play with Ireland


Everyone seems to be planning on moving players out ASAP, lots of rugby going around

Clegg

On in 20 minutes for anyone interested.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1254043750978015236?s=19