Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Shefwedfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

What he showed at other clubs is not really as relevant as what he showed at Leinster. And at Leinster he was grand, but that was about it. There is a reason he is heading to the Dragons next season and not somewhere better.

The French and English clubs are nearly bankrupt.....the SH clubs are worse. He was always going to be limited to clubs who are backed by a Union and potentially still have money. Dragons are probably one of the few teams in the World with a budget at the moment because of the WRU backing.....


I think that has to be taken into consideration. Not who wanted him but who could actually afford him

Shefwedfan

It's a pity to see Ferg bow out like this if he doesn't get a chance again to play. He really was a true Leinster player. Great servant and always a good guy for a bit of niggle.

I remember the season he was taking the kicks for Madigan, 2011 I think, he was at the highest percentage success rate and then had a nightmare one night in RDS and dropped back. I always had him down as the replacement for Darcy but it never happened really. Injuries hit him at the wrong time. Like he was flying in 2019 and then that tackle when scoring and he missed the Aus tour when he would have got time on for Ireland.....

Great player, met him once and was really nice as well. One of those Leinster squad player that you miss when he is gone. Not too bad a medla haul either at club and international level

El_Duderino 09

On Tomane I think he was not as good as expected when he arrived first. I think he improved a lot but I think his first impression stuck in people's minds.

I remember seeing him as a grand Pro14 player but I worried when I saw him in champions cup teams. But actually he was good this year and well worth his place in the team. He wouldn't have got there ahead of Henshaw or Ringrose, but he wasn't a weak link either.

I think at the moment the academy lads are not as solid as him but they have great potential so I'm fine with investing in them.

I'd wish him well at Dragons. He'll be a big addition to them.

sydthebeat

every one forgets about poor Hayden Triggs

Now theres a guy who came with no reputation and proved to be a solid squad player.

Podge_irl

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The French and English clubs are nearly bankrupt.....the SH clubs are worse. He was always going to be limited to clubs who are backed by a Union and potentially still have money. Dragons are probably one of the few teams in the World with a budget at the moment because of the WRU backing.....


I think that has to be taken into consideration. Not who wanted him but who could actually afford him

This is just fanciful stuff. Tomane is not going to the Dragons because they are the only team who can afford him. He was always unlikely to be staying at Leinster no matter what - if there was any interest in him he would have been signed for a good club before the latest problems hit. Ultimately for the last two years he has been middling to pretty decent as a player. The disruptions obviously haven't helped and we'll never know what might have been, but I do not expect us to be looking wistfully at the Dragons next season.

salmocab

sydthebeat wrote: »

every one forgets about poor Hayden Triggs

Now theres a guy who came with no reputation and proved to be a solid squad player.

I mentioned him recently when we were discussing best overseas signings. I really rated him.

salmocab

salmocab wrote: »

I mentioned him recently when we were discussing best overseas signings. I really rated him.

He was really great his final season despite suffering personal tragedy.

Fardy kinda stole the show when he came on board though. Such a quality signing and a big impact straight away.

I don't care in what capacity it happens but I really want to see Fardy stay with Leinster. Have heard so much positive feedback about his attitude on and off the field.

salmocab

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He was really great his final season despite suffering personal tragedy.

Fardy kinda stole the show when he came on board though. Such a quality signing and a big impact straight away.

I don't care in what capacity it happens but I really want to see Fardy stay with Leinster. Have heard so much positive feedback about his attitude on and off the field.

Yeah Fardy has been a brilliant signing no doubt, with the amount that Leinster lose to Ireland camps players like him and Isa are really important as I’d say even if they aren’t playing a particular game it’s having old hands like them around that helps keep standards up.
Again though Triggs was an excellent signing and I remember when he was leaving someone suggested on I think the Connacht page that he’d be a good signing and quite a few people mocked it.

irishbucsfan

Triggs is another player who came good after being given time to settle. He was a liability at times early on for both penalties and crucial errors in open play. JGP as well.

Richie_Rich89

It's unsurprising that Tomane struggled initially at inside centre considering he'd played all his international rugby and Super Rugby on the wing. It'd be like asking Dave Kearney (simliar number of international caps) to go down to play 12 in Australia for one of the SR franchises after standing at centre for a few games of Top Quatorze arm-wrestle rugby.

He was actually very good this season - much better than Te'o was at 12. Te'o had no understanding of running lines or how to time passes as an inside centre. I suppose the improved coaching played a role in that too.

sydthebeat

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

. Te'o had no understanding of running lines or how to time passes as an inside centre.

strange that a year after Te'o left leinster he was a starting Lion at 12

must be a quick learner to go from not being able to time a pass or run a line, to starting for the lions.

prawnsambo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It's a pity to see Ferg bow out like this if he doesn't get a chance again to play. He really was a true Leinster player. Great servant and always a good guy for a bit of niggle.

I remember the season he was taking the kicks for Madigan, 2011 I think, he was at the highest percentage success rate and then had a nightmare one night in RDS and dropped back. I always had him down as the replacement for Darcy but it never happened really. Injuries hit him at the wrong time. Like he was flying in 2019 and then that tackle when scoring and he missed the Aus tour when he would have got time on for Ireland.....

Great player, met him once and was really nice as well. One of those Leinster squad player that you miss when he is gone. Not too bad a medla haul either at club and international level

If anyone watched the replay of the 2011 final against Northampton on BT3 yesterday (it's on catch-up btw), BOD and Dylan Hartley are watching the game and talking about it and the players involved (very entertaining). When McFadden came on, BOD spent some time talking about him and what a good player he is. Very complimentary of him.

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

every one forgets about poor Hayden Triggs

Now theres a guy who came with no reputation and proved to be a solid squad player.

Another slow burner too, his first season was fairly underwhelming. Really came good in his second season though.

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

strange that a year after Te'o left leinster he was a starting Lion at 12

must be a quick learner to go from not being able to time a pass or run a line, to starting for the lions.

That's probably because Gatland picked him in spite of his limitations because he was looking for Jamie Roberts 2.0.

Let's be honest, the Leinster coaching probably wasn't the best with rookies Leo Cullen and Girvan Dempsey in situ so he probably improved somewhat under the coaching of Eddie Jones with England. Even at that he got dumped after the first Lions Test because his limitations were an issue. There was that time he checked back inside instead of passing when it might have been on wide right.

I wanted to see Te'o at 12 as much as anybody in '15/'16 to clear a path for Ringrose at 13 but the issues with that quickly became clear. He didn't get that he had to run square to preserve the space for those outside him. And it was always run it up and then look for the offload out of contact instead of sometimes giving it early.

I think Te'o in the centre only really worked if it was him at 13 and an outhalf-style 12 inside him to tee him up and get him running wider out and crashing over the gainline to generate go-forward (and maybe offload), i.e. what MOC signed him for. He would have needed a lot of individual skills and technical coaching - like he'd maybe get at a NZ SR franchises to bring him up to speed on how to play 12.

Shefwedfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

strange that a year after Te'o left leinster he was a starting Lion at 12

must be a quick learner to go from not being able to time a pass or run a line, to starting for the lions.

Te’o walked out of Leinster and straight into the England squad for the Australia tour which they won, not sure how much he played in that end of season but for someone so awful it was amazing how quick he jumped nearly every Centre in England to walk into the squad :-)

molloyjh

clsmooth wrote: »

If a big money NIQ doesn't perform better than a locally developed player, he's going to struggle to win the affection of the home crowd. Happens in every sport. Everyone wants to see the local lad do well. To suggest an element of racism is a unfair. I think you could make an argument of xenophobia with Gopperth, but that was more likely frustration of having lost Sexton, our regression under MOC, and Madigan being kept out of the team although Gopperth was consistently out performing him. He unfairly became the fall guy. I don't remember any issue when Healy and VDM were alternating, or when Fardy was picked ahead of Rudduck/Moloney at any stage.



Maybe the feeling is more pronounced in Leinster with some of the home grown talent available as opposed to the other provinces who don't have the same conveyor belt. Fans take a certain pride in the fact that Leinster have accomplished what they have with a team (of mainly) home grown players. To suggest that players won't want to come from abroad is ridculous too. Contepomi and Isa are seen as Leinster legends. Lowes getting there if not already in that bracket. Rocky Elsom would struggle to buy himself a drink at the RDS. Plenty of others in that bracket too. Bottom line, its like any professional environment, come in, work hard, perform well and you'll have the full support of the crowd. Even if you're from Munster.

Just to note, thomond didnt mention anything about any of those points you made. He simply referenced Luke's attitude to Tomane. He didnt mention racism, xenophobia or foreign born players not being interested in Leinster. Even though he is from Munster.

Venjur on the other hand did raise the racism element. Even though he is from Leinster.

Buer

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

On Tomane I think he was not as good as expected when he arrived first. I think he improved a lot but I think his first impression stuck in people's minds.

I think this is definitely part of the problem. People make up their minds very quickly and it's hard for them to shake that. In some cases, they've talked sh*te and are too arrogant/proud to admit they're wrong and double down or won't give credit when it's due after berating the player previously.

Tomane got some over the top criticism from some fans and Fitzgerald (he was embarrassing) over errors that multiple players were making. His showings this season have been very solid and I'd say around 7/10 for the season. I'd have been hoping for more from a test player but I'm not disappointed with him overall. He took time to click and when he did, he started to show his value.

In some cases, people make up their minds about guys before they arrive though. Gopperth was never going to be a fan favourite. Looking back at posts here, there was a widely held belief that he was signed as a back up (which I don't think was ever the intention of Leinster). The Tomane signing was getting whinges from some before he arrived as he would be harming the development of others. Ironically, his time here coincided with a rapid development of backline talent suddenly appearing in our match day squads in the likes of Keenan, JOB, COB and TOB.

Scottmactom

So possible wing options for next season?

Senior
Dave Kearney(31)
James Lowe(28)
Barry Daly(28)
Rory O'Loughlin(26)
Adam Byrne(26)
Cian Kelleher(26)
Hugo Keenan(24)
Jordan Larmour(23)
Tommy O'Brien(22)

DK was having an excellent season, with 12 tries, after struggling with injury in recent seasons, Lowe is clearly 1st choice for Leinster, how much he will be away with Ireland going forward? We will have to wait and see. Daly hasn't played for leinster this season due to injury, is out of contract this summer afaik. ROL has focused on centre since his breakthrough season, but could be an option on the wing. Byrne has rarely played for Leinster this season, only 5 appearances, and is also out of contract this summer, some rumours around him leaving but that remains unclear given covid situation. Kelleher had 4 tries in 7 appearances, and looked like he was adapting well on his return to the province. Keenan has played 15 exclusively this season, but can cover wing. Larmour played 15 mostly this season also but obviously another option on the wing. O'Brien is capable of playing centre and wing, interesting to watch to see where he focuses on next season.

Academy
Michael Silvester(22)
Liam Turner(21)
Aaron O'Sullivan(20)
Andrew Smith(20)

Silvester has played 15 mostly but could appear on the wing. Turner has played 13 mostly but could also play on the wing. O'Sullivan and Smith are pure wingers.

clsmooth

molloyjh wrote: »

Just to note, thomond didnt mention anything about any of those points you made. He simply referenced Luke's attitude to Tomane. He didnt mention racism, xenophobia or foreign born players not being interested in Leinster. Even though he is from Munster.

Venjur on the other hand did raise the racism element. Even though he is from Leinster.

Didn’t even look at the username when I quoted that post and was only referencing the fact that I agreed with his assessment of Tomane and Kirchner! Suddenly my little joke about even Munster born players being accepted looks like I was a having a go: apologies thomond, that was definitely not the case

Shefwedfan

Talked to a couple of Dragons fans, they are over joyed to have him and expect to be competitive with him included next year so will be interesting

In terms of wing

Senior
Dave Kearney(31) - Would expect to be in first team, especially for international weeks
James Lowe(28) - Will be with Ireland all the time so will only really play in Europe
Barry Daly(28) - Unknown really
Rory O'Loughlin(26) - Pro 14 really
Adam Byrne(26) - I would expect to leave to Connacht
Cian Kelleher(26) - Could be season for him to break into European side
Hugo Keenan(24) - Will be looking to break into European side
Jordan Larmour(23) - Fullback
Tommy O'Brien(22) - DOnt know enough about him

That's my breakdown at the moment. Larmour is clearly marked for the 15 jersey so really will only play wing if injury crisis. Expect Rob to leave so who would play 15 instead of Larmour?

Clegg

Buer wrote: »

I think this is definitely part of the problem. People make up their minds very quickly and it's hard for them to shake that. In some cases, they've talked sh*te and are too arrogant/proud to admit they're wrong and double down or won't give credit when it's due after berating the player previously.

Tomane got some over the top criticism from some fans and Fitzgerald (he was embarrassing) over errors that multiple players were making. His showings this season have been very solid and I'd say around 7/10 for the season. I'd have been hoping for more from a test player but I'm not disappointed with him overall. He took time to click and when he did, he started to show his value.

In some cases, people make up their minds about guys before they arrive though. Gopperth was never going to be a fan favourite. Looking back at posts here, there was a widely held belief that he was signed as a back up (which I don't think was ever the intention of Leinster). The Tomane signing was getting whinges from some before he arrived as he would be harming the development of others. Ironically, his time here coincided with a rapid development of backline talent suddenly appearing in our match day squads in the likes of Keenan, JOB, COB and TOB.

This is what annoyed me the most. There was a game when the opposition were camped a few metres from Leinster's line, one of our backrows failed to make his hit and the oppo ball carrier was inches from the line. Tomane tried to stop him, but he was bowled over by the bigger man. In the match thread the posts were all about Tomane failing to stop the try. Nothing about our backrow being the actual culprit. Once the line was broken Tomane was never stopping the grounding.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

This is what annoyed me the most. There was a game when the opposition were camped a few metres from Leinster's line, one of our backrows failed to make his hit and the oppo ball carrier was inches from the line. Tomane tried to stop him, but he was bowled over by the bigger man. In the match thread the posts were all about Tomane failing to stop the try. Nothing about our backrow being the actual culprit. Once the line was broken Tomane was never stopping the grounding.

I recall the try. That was in no small part thanks to people parroting Fitzgerald who was looking for any vehicle to kick Tomane. Fitzgerald never really came across brilliantly in his punditry but he has tried to carve out a niche for himself as an outspoken and blunt pundit. The problem is that he doesn't back it up with actual logic or sense.

Scottmactom

So centre options next season:

Robbie Henshaw(27)
Rory O'Loughlin(26)
Garry Ringrose(25)
Conor O'Brien(24)
Jimmy O'Brien(23)
Ciaran Frawley(22)
Gavin Mullin(22)
Tommy O'Brien(22)

Henshaw and Ringrose are clearly 1st choice centre partnership for Leinster, ROL has missed most this season with an injury but he has often filled in at 12 in europe and been Ringrose's primary backup. COB has had a quieter 2nd season this year but will have an opportunity to push on next season with Tomane leaving. JOB has featured at 13 this season but could also play 15. Can he overcome his size in the centre at the highest level? Frawley is an option at 12 if he moves away from 10. Mullin has been a pure 13, wait and see can he get some gametime there next season. TOB can play all across the backline, will he settle at centre?

David Hawkshaw(21)
Liam Turner(21)

Hawkshaw is a 10/12, who has been injured. Will he focus on 10 or 12 on his return? Turner has been focusing on 7's, will he play 13 or wing on his return to 15's?

Clegg

Jaysus. Look at that baby face.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1257613211349798912?s=19

Buer

And around 6 months later he did this little move against Glasgow. The in and out move is something Hickie would have been happy with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlIdRxKFjQQ

Scottmactom

what an athlete.

Clegg

You forget sometimes that Healy was a freak when he first burst onto the scene. Never seen an Irish prop as dynamic as him. Still haven't either. Porter and Furlong are great athletes, but don't have that explosive mix of pace and power.

AdamD

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

You can add Kane Douglas to that list. Unless a foreign player hits the straps immediately they are given a rougher time by a section of support.

Well it didn't help that Douglas never seemed to look like he wanted to be here, along with being fairly useless on the pitch. Then left his contract early which feeds into it looking like he was never that arsed in the first place.

Clegg

Remember Steven Sykes? He was in the same boat as Douglas. Was rubbish and clearly didn't want to be here either.

We had to wade through a lot of rubbish before we found some good locks to sign. And now we're at the stage where we can develop our own quality players.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

Remember Steven Sykes? He was in the same boat as Douglas. Was rubbish and clearly didn't want to be here either.

We had to wade through a lot of rubbish before we found some good locks to sign. And now we're at the stage where we can develop our own quality players.

We're too quick to criticise. Sykes was 26, signed for Leinster which was the other side of the world and came here with his other half who was heavily pregnant (she wasn't pregnant when he signed). They had a kid with no family or support anywhere around and they were homesick.

He was a good player but being a good player in South Africa in the sun and at home doesn't mean you're going to be at the same level in Ireland. It's a shame as it appeared to completely unravel his career and he never go to the same level that he was at prior to leaving SA (he was an unused sub in the final Lions test).