Why do Irish people support English teams?

03-06-2019 2:02am

22 grown men kicking a ball around a field with a guy in the middle dressed in black blowing a whistle.
Give them all a ball.
Pure tribalism.

On a Monday morning in work you hear - Oh 'my' team lost or 'my' team won - then you ask the question - Oh so you have a team now, what is it and then they say something like 'spurs' and I say what's that - like horse spurs or something ?

It reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msN7HNncHik

8-10 · 03-06-2019 2:19am

65535 wrote: »

22 grown men kicking a ball around a field with a guy in the middle dressed in black blowing a whistle.
Give them all a ball.
Pure tribalism.

Found Mrs Doyle

DeanAustin · 03-06-2019 9:43am

65535 wrote: »

22 grown men kicking a ball around a field with a guy in the middle dressed in black blowing a whistle.
Give them all a ball.
Pure tribalism.

On a Monday morning in work you hear - Oh 'my' team lost or 'my' team won - then you ask the question - Oh so you have a team now, what is it and then they say something like 'spurs' and I say what's that - like horse spurs or something ?

It reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msN7HNncHik

Wow that’s really witty. I’d say you’re the office comedian are you?

Strumms · 03-06-2019 10:02am

chrissb8 wrote: »

I find modern football mind boggling really or at least its fans. The cringe on facebook of people living in Ireland and putting up status' like "come on Pool get in there!" or the "YNWA, 6! History made tonight!" Like what affiliation or real emotional investment is there from an Irish person. I used to be a big Utd supporter than I just had a realisation, I don't actually care. There is no real pull towards me supporting them like there might have been with Keane there. You would be better served to support your local team and have that collective feeling so many fans yearn for but delude themselves into thinking they are "part of the club" by supporting L.Pool or Utd.

All I like to do now is simply watch good football and will catch a game of better quality regardless of who Utd are playing. I realised I'm a fan of football, not any one team. You then get the absolute cringe lads down in the pub shouting at the TV or hands on their heads. Give it a rest and grow up. I'm sorry, but if you're gonna get all worked up like a fanny over a ball being kicked about a pitch for a team you don't even have a tangible connection to then you need to look at yourself and think what the hell am I doing.

.

People enjoy the Premiership, La Liga etc simply because it’s a much much better, much much more entertaining product than has been on offer here.

Better players
Better teams
Better facilities
Better atmospheres
Better competition
Better entertainment
Better excitement
Better occasions....

BETTER.

In addition there will have beeen in many cases the likes of family loyalty etc..

If you want some invisible credit like pat on the back for preferring to be down Tolka Park on a pissy cold and wet evening in April, in a quarter full ‘stadium’ with little atmosphere, debatable interest, players doing there upmost more power to you, I say why not try both and ENJOY both were possible but the idea that people should be questioned or criticized for liking Premiership football is just fûcking daft and some.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 10:11am

Greyfox wrote: »

But my family and friends all support English teams, nobody close to me follows LOI. Well those locals are just been ar**holes. It's not forced it's real, if Liverpool had of lost there would of been a lot of Dubs dreading work on tuesday

It is forced it is a massive brand association on the basis of constant exposure. It is like people picking Pepsi or Coke. Some people went mad in the 80's when 'New Coke' was created.

I don't support any soccer team. I watch any soccer all the same. It is then assumed that you must 'support' a Premiership team! I get funny looks when I say I don't 'support' any of them.
From playing fantasy football I know all the intricacies of the all the teams in the league, from the whole league. Otherwise I would not really have reason to know that much detail.

I can see why people get sucked into 'supporting' a successful team at the age of 10 though. Youngsters want to be associated with famous glamorous winners.
How many 10 year olds pick the team that got relegated in the year they watch the premier league.
Many Fulham/Cardiff/Huddersfield fans this year?

Plus I always noticed Irish fans of Premier League teams feel the need to justify how long they are supporting thier team - it almost seems like a guilt thing.
They feel guilty for doing so a little bit dirty?

chrissb8 · 03-06-2019 10:23am

martingriff wrote: »

My God you sound so elitist. If I am better then you because I support a local LOI team or I am a fan of football as if the rest of us are not. Get off that high horse.If you honestly believe to there owners it's not a business then you are wrong. Cork City maybe because it's a fans consortium.

How do you know those in the pub do not have a connection and what is a connection. They love the sport and they (genuine fans) love the teams. They are no less down the peg just because of you imaginary superiority because you support a LOI team

I don't support a LOI team and I don't think you have to support someone from Clare. I just think that if you're going to support a team do it with a sense of logic.

These fans are not from Liverpool, they might have never been Liverpool and they're in the pub or elsewhere getting right worked up for something that seems so superficially hollow.

Yes support an English team whatever, no harm done. But all this LIVERPOOL TILL I DIE and REMEMBER THE 96.....what is that all about.

It's just pure escapism and sometimes it becomes unhealthy in the obsession with it. Lads genuinely getting down that their team lost, please, it is just a game of football and to let something/anything like that impact your life is the mentality of a child.

AND like that there will always be next season, the season after, another drama. It's like the end of the world for some people.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 10:37am

DeanAustin wrote: »

I picked them because my brother supported them and he did so because he loved Glenn Hoddle and didn’t want to support Liverpool or United like all his mates.

Even a kid who picks LOI over GAA has to force an emotional attachment by picking one sport over another by your logic.

I agree on the Manc/Scouse scum nonsense by the way. But there is an inherent pseudo intellectual condescension in your posts. Calling fans of English teams consumers and assuming they all have beer guts and watch games in pubs.

I took my little boy to Tottenham for the game yesterday. We both sat in the stadium afterwards devastated and about half a dozen Londoners, dealing with their own disappointment, went out of their way to cheer my little fella up. It was really amazing. One of them even thanked us for making the effort to go over. But every time I take my lad over, we share something wonderful that is far more than just a brand and we feel and are made to feel part of it by the locals.

Also, my favourite golfer growing up was Bernhard Langer. Loved him and still do given what he’s done into his 50s and 60s. Am I a consumer of brand Langer too?

Basically yeah you are a consumer of brands, super huge global brands. Like the way some people go mad worldwide over apple iphones

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/iphone-8-latest-news-updates-apple-fan-10-days-queues-release-sydney-australia-mazen-kourouche-a7942826.html

Look at this emotion over a material good - a global brand - tears and everything. (The Key Ring did not get much reaction)

I can see why you got sucked into supporting Spurs your brother brought the jerseys, had the Hoddle posters on the wall.

But your brother started supporting Spurs not only because of Hoddle's silky passing skills but because they won things FA Cups, UEFA cups massive exposure for a young fella back then the FA cup was huge. And Spurs were a cup team.

Your brother was never going to pick the likes of Birmingham, Stoke, or Leicester.

When Irish people say they are fans of the Premier League and support a team from there 99% of them really only mean the top six/ maybe eight at a push.
They do not really have much interest in the other teams at all.

omega man · 03-06-2019 10:41am

jk23 wrote: »

This guy is a Liverpool fan from Liverpool and he was interviewed a couple of years ago on Liverpool and the top clubs in England It's well worth a listen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmNsWzHgxC8

That’s the reality, local fans think of the foreign fans as tourists or plastics. Most have chosen to support an English team on the basis of success, either themselves or through a family member.

There’s nothing wrong with that (I support one myself!) but it’s not comparable to supporting your local or home town team in whatever sport. You can follow English football and not LOI or both it doesn’t really matter but don’t tell me supporting a foreign team with no physical connection gives the same sense of pride as your local team.

I

8-10 · 03-06-2019 10:42am

omega man wrote: »

That’s the reality, local fans think of the foreign fans as tourists or plastics. Most have chosen to support an English team on the basis of success, either themselves or through a family member.

There’s nothing wrong with that (I support one myself!) but it’s not comparable to supporting your local or home town team in whatever sport. You can follow English football and not LOI or both it doesn’t really matter but don’t tell me supporting a foreign team with no physical connection gives the same sense of pride as your local team.

I

It gives me way more pride. I feel less of a connection with my local team to be honest.

Each to their own

omega man · 03-06-2019 10:49am

8-10 wrote: »

It gives me way more pride. I feel less of a connection with my local team to be honest.

Each to their own

I don’t doubt that but just don’t understand it I guess.

I’ve supported arsenal since the 80s but the sense of pride I get from Dublin GAA for example is on another level. I didn’t pick Dublin like I did arsenal and we're stuck at the hip no matter what. You can’t change your county.

I’m not having a dig, just my own feelings on the subject. What enjoyment people get in life is their business and if it’s a positive influence then all the better.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 10:52am

Strumms wrote: »

People enjoy the Premiership, La Liga etc simply because it’s a much much better, much much more entertaining product than has been on offer here.

Better players
Better teams
Better facilities
Better atmospheres
Better competition
Better entertainment
Better excitement
Better occasions....

BETTER.

In addition there will have beeen in many cases the likes of family loyalty etc..

If you want some invisible credit like pat on the back for preferring to be down Tolka Park on a pissy cold and wet evening in April, in a quarter full ‘stadium’ with little atmosphere, debatable interest, players doing there upmost more power to you, I say why not try both and ENJOY both were possible but the idea that people should be questioned or criticized for liking Premiership football is just fûcking daft and some.

This post reads like you feel guilty to me.
And you are trying to justify it to yourself
In your heart you know your motivations are purely superficial, materialistic and vacuous.
It is the 'event' you are after not the actual team and pride of place etc.
Places were created out of boundries and difference to the crowd up the road.

The kind of following you are talking about, is just like people going to see the Rolling Stones from all around the world.

8-10 · 03-06-2019 11:00am

omega man wrote: »

I don’t doubt that but just don’t understand it I guess.

I’ve supported arsenal since the 80s but the sense of pride I get from Dublin GAA for example is on another level. I didn’t pick Dublin like I did arsenal and we're stuck at the hip no matter what. You can’t change your county.

You did pick them though. I’m from Dublin but don’t think I’ve seen them play a full game of GAA. I don’t enjoy it as a sport. I didn’t pick being from Dublin, but supporting their team in a particular sport is absolutely a choice

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 11:11am

omega man wrote: »

I don’t doubt that but just don’t understand it I guess.

I’ve supported arsenal since the 80s but the sense of pride I get from Dublin GAA for example is on another level. I didn’t pick Dublin like I did arsenal and we're stuck at the hip no matter what. You can’t change your county.

I’m not having a dig, just my own feelings on the subject. What enjoyment people get in life is their business and if it’s a positive influence then all the better.

I agree with this I even went to games where Dublin were not playing because I knew it would be tense etc.
Louth were not even playing Dublin but it was in Parnell park.
It really meant something to them, it is where they are from. With thier thick accents.
Club GAA games have the same thing particularly down the country.

I just feel that there is this strange void in soccer in Ireland.
The LOI is viewed as inferior and people jump to the massive exposure premier league.

In England what people do is they support a few teams around thier local area from a few different divisions. They could have a non-league team and a championship team for example.
There is no stigma of supporting an 'inferior product' like there is with Irish soccer fans.

I think it stems from colonialism, where over 100's of years it was drummed into the Irish people.
All things English = good glamorous progressive
All things Irish = backwards inferior.

It started with language and Irish was phased out because of this.
Now it is the same mentality with football teams.

Plus the marketing and exposure has only heightened the gap.

If a person really liked sport for the sake of sport, they would have no problem going to see two teams of a low but similar level compete with each other.
There may not be the glamour and razzmatazz there but there is that competitive spirit.
When it is local and you are a local it is really magnified and is something special.
You did not chose the team, the team chose you.
It is where you are from.

Yet Irish supporters of premier league teams do another strange thing.
They go on about mercenaries at thier club (normally non UK )!
But they do not see the irony, that they are supporter versions of mercenaries!

That always amuses me.
Plus I have learnt it is a no-no to call Celtic a British club (But that is another story)

omega man · 03-06-2019 11:12am

8-10 wrote: »

You did pick them though. I’m from Dublin but don’t think I’ve seen them play a full game of GAA. I don’t enjoy it as a sport. I didn’t pick being from Dublin, but supporting their team in a particular sport is absolutely a choice

That’s just my example as I was brought up playing GAA, I certainly don’t expect that for others of course. I was simply highlighting my own experience supporting a local team versus an English team.
My point was that if your from Dublin and into GAA you don’t support Kerry because they’re better, or vice-versa now! Basically it’s not a choice unlike if you support English football.
You don’t have to agree with me 8-10, it’s just my own experience!

ILoveYourVibes · 03-06-2019 11:15am

Because I wanna be a brit

Britain: Expectation: Downton Abbey Reality: This

8-10 · 03-06-2019 11:17am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You did not chose the team, the team chose you.
It is where you are from.

Nah it’s always a choice, and it’s influenced by much more than just where you’re from. Yes location in general is the dominant factor, but it’s a simplistic view to say that that’s the only meaningful factor.

I follow sports that Ireland don’t have any teams in, let alone Dublin!

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 11:17am

8-10 wrote: »

You did pick them though. I’m from Dublin but don’t think I’ve seen them play a full game of GAA. I don’t enjoy it as a sport. I didn’t pick being from Dublin, but supporting their team in a particular sport is absolutely a choice

He not pick them.
By being interested in the sport - the team chose him!
If he was from Leitrim, Louth, Wicklow he would be following them around the place. And mad into his local GAA club, and giving out about how there should be more of them on the County panel.

I don't really follow rugby.
But if I did I would start going to Leinster games, as that is the area I am from.
It is the same thing.

Omackeral · 03-06-2019 11:23am

Strumms wrote: »

People enjoy the Premiership, La Liga etc simply because it’s a much much better, much much more entertaining product than has been on offer here.

Better players
Better teams
Better facilities
Better atmospheres
Better competition
Better entertainment
Better excitement
Better occasions....

BETTER.

Better players YES
Better teams YES
Better facilities YES
Better atmospheres NO (Can't speak for La Liga but been to some awful EPL atmospheres)
Better competition NOT ALWAYS
Better entertainment NOT ALWAYS (Top 6 rarely changes)
Better excitement NOT ALWAYS (As above)

niallo27 · 03-06-2019 11:25am

Football in Ireland is for Dublin people, let's be realistic here. I'm from Clare and I would love if we had an all Ireland system with 32 counties but it will never happen because of how badly it is run. Of course people will turn to England because Irish people love football.

On a side note I was in Ennis yesterday and the amount of people that abused their own players was a ****en disgrace, **** gaa fans. Most fickle supporters around.

niallo27 · 03-06-2019 11:27am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is forced it is a massive brand association on the basis of constant exposure. It is like people picking Pepsi or Coke. Some people went mad in the 80's when 'New Coke' was created.

I don't support any soccer team. I watch any soccer all the same. It is then assumed that you must 'support' a Premiership team! I get funny looks when I say I don't 'support' any of them.
From playing fantasy football I know all the intricacies of the all the teams in the league, from the whole league. Otherwise I would not really have reason to know that much detail.

I can see why people get sucked into 'supporting' a successful team at the age of 10 though. Youngsters want to be associated with famous glamorous winners.
How many 10 year olds pick the team that got relegated in the year they watch the premier league.
Many Fulham/Cardiff/Huddersfield fans this year?

Plus I always noticed Irish fans of Premier League teams feel the need to justify how long they are supporting thier team - it almost seems like a guilt thing.
They feel guilty for doing so a little bit dirty?

Nobody gives you funny looks and if they are its probably because your probably being a bit of a dick about it.

Clare in Exile · 03-06-2019 11:30am

Interesting discussion. As a child I was almost obsessed with Liverpool, but the older I became the more I realised that I had no real connection with them, that this whole thing of referring to them as "we" or "us" was actually quite hollow.

The Premier League is a massive global enterprise these days, as I read some place last week it's an international league played in England. The days of yore when Irish players played for Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal/Spurs are long gone - so that sense of an Irish connection to those clubs is becoming even more tenuous.

The influx of non British or Irish players has totally changed the dynamic of the product - one of the reasons why I feel the Liverpool v Man Utd contest has become somewhat diluted recently.

Regarding what that Liverpool fan in that clip said about the club becoming a haven for tourist fans, I recall reading some You Tube comments a while back, one of which was from a Liverpool local complaining about "Pissed up Paddies" coming to Anfield for matches.

I'd be interested to delve further into the topic of local fans of the big English clubs and how they feel about the influx of foreign fans into their clubs - do they look on with bemusement at the whole thing or just accept that it is part and parcel of the massive product that the Premier League has become?

As others have said, I've grown to appreciate more the GAA and how it accommodates one's sense of county allegiance. Nowadays watching a game I only truly feel a sense of "my" team when it is county or country.

I watch a load of soccer as I'm a big sports fan, and can appreciate and enjoy the games without getting drawn into some tribal dispute about "my" team - each to their own though.

Interesting debate, some good discussion on it...

Omackeral · 03-06-2019 11:33am

niallo27 wrote: »

Of course people will turn to England because Irish people love football.

That makes no sense. If they really and truly love football, they'd support it and immerse themselves in the culture of it and it would improve drastically. We're great at doing it at big tournaments for Ireland but not week in and week out.

I take your point about no teams in some places. I hope that changes. I'd love to see Kerry enter a team in the LOI. Kilkenny had one. People didn't show up. Ditto for Monaghan. Dublin City came out with lovely navy and blue county colours... people didn't care.

niallo27 · 03-06-2019 11:36am

Omackeral wrote: »

That makes no sense. If they really and truly love football, they'd support it and immerse themselves in the culture of it and it would improve drastically. We're great at doing it at big tournaments for Ireland but not week in and week out.

I take your point about no teams in some places. I hope that changes. I'd love to see Kerry enter a team in the LOI. Kilkenny had one. People didn't show up. Ditto for Monaghan. Dublin City came out with lovely navy and blue county colours... people didn't care.

It needs to be marketed better though, there needs to be a plan. Look at Munster rugby, it started out being watched in front of a 100 people and now it's a global brand. People in Clare and limerick absolutely love football but we have no options. Limerick city is a joke of a club.

trashcan · 03-06-2019 11:40am

Greyfox wrote: »

. I actually do think I should be supporting a LOI team too though

Well, yeah, you can do both you know. You never know, you might surprise yourself. Depends on your expectations really. If you go to LOI football expecting something that can compete with the English premier league then you are going to come away disappointed. On the other hand, take the game on its own merits and it can be just as enjoyable. You can see good football, great goals at times, and plenty of drama. Above all, it's about caring. How many awful Ireland matches have people sat through, but it doesn't matter because there is an emotional investment there.

Omackeral · 03-06-2019 11:41am

niallo27 wrote: »

People in Clare and limerick absolutely love football but we have no options. Limerick city is a joke of a club.

Limerick is badly run. It's a shame as it has great history. If people showed up it would be better. But then you can't blame people for not showing up to badly run clubs. Badly run clubs won't get better without people showing up. It's a Catch 22.

Would you go to see a Clare LOI team if it formed? Would you give it a chance?

Strumms · 03-06-2019 11:41am

Omackeral wrote: »

Dublin City came out with lovely navy and blue county colours... people didn't care.

That experiment was doomed to failure. Why should people have cared ? Because this newly made up club had a nice blue strip ? With Bohs, Shels and Pats, all established clubs with rich history struggling to put bums on seats, let’s invent a new team to further dilute the market and see what happens, not the brightest move as history proved.

Omackeral · 03-06-2019 11:41am

trashcan wrote: »

Well, yeah, you can do both you know. You never know, you might surprise yourself. Depends on your expectations really. If you go to LOI football expecting something that can compete with the English premier league then you are going to come away disappointed. On the other hand, take the game on its own merits and it can be just as enjoyable. You can see good football, great goals at times, and plenty of drama. Above all, it's about caring. How many awful Ireland matches have people sat through, but it doesn't matter because there is an emotional investment there.

You might also see the next James McClean coming through.

Omackeral · 03-06-2019 11:43am

Strumms wrote: »

That experiment was doomed to failure. Why should people have cared ? Because this newly made up club had a nice blue strip ? With Bohs, Shels and Pats, all established clubs with rich history struggling to put bums on seats, let’s invent a new team to further dilute the market and see what happens, not the brightest move as history proved.

Not disputing that. Was merely countering a point made by another poster saying every county should have a team. I'm wondering who'd show up to see them. Wouldn't work in Cork, Louth, Galway for example... or Dublin as we've seen. Kilkenny and Monaghan look a no-go too if history has shown us anything.

Greyfox · 03-06-2019 11:45am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is like people picking Pepsi or Coke. Some people went mad in the 80's when 'New Coke' was created.

... It is then assumed that you must 'support' a Premiership team! I get funny looks when I say I don't 'support' any of them...
I can see why people get sucked into 'supporting' a successful team at the age of 10 though. Youngsters want to be associated with famous glamorous winners.
How many 10 year olds pick the team that got relegated in the year they watch the premier league.
Many Fulham/Cardiff/Huddersfield fans this year?

Plus I always noticed Irish fans of Premier League teams feel the need to justify how long they are supporting thier team - it almost seems like a guilt thing.
They feel guilty for doing so a little bit dirty?

Your not going to get upset if Coke sales drop off. The emotional attachment and feeling of belonging is real. It can't be helped due to how popular the Premiership is, personally I would find football boring if I didn't support a team.

The thing is that team that got relegated where not enjoyable to watch, a team need to be enjoyable to watch otherwise getting emotionally attached is impossible. Success breeds fans and it's true in all sports at all levels. If i support a local team and never get enjoyment I'd be an idiot if I continue to support them. Your in a dream world if you think people feel guilty, people are proud to be supporting a team for a long time

The Moldy Gowl · 03-06-2019 11:45am

niallo27 wrote: »

Football in Ireland is for Dublin people, let's be realistic here. I'm from Clare and I would love if we had an all Ireland system with 32 counties but it will never happen because of how badly it is run. Of course people will turn to England because Irish people love football.

On a side note I was in Ennis yesterday and the amount of people that abused their own players was a ****en disgrace, **** gaa fans. Most fickle supporters around.

It is very Dublin centric. A lot of the reason no one knows about it is because of the fai.

Some is down to ignorance, the perception is that it is ****e.

One thing that is sad is the best fans in the world ™ that get wheeled out at competitions and a lot wouldn't have a clue about the LOI.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 11:46am

8-10 wrote: »

I follow sports that Ireland don’t have any teams in, let alone Dublin!

You are person who enjoys whatever sport it is, as everyone is entitled.
But do you attach a 'we' prefix in-front of a team from that sport and try and ape the locals?

niallo27 · 03-06-2019 11:46am

Omackeral wrote: »

Not disputing that. Was merely countering a point made by another poster saying every county should have a team. I'm wondering who'd show up to see them. Wouldn't work in Cork, Louth, Galway for example... or Dublin as we've seen. Kilkenny and Monaghan look a no-go too if history has shown us anything.

I agree it wouldnt work, I was just saying I would love it. Ennis was packed yesterday an hour before the game.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 11:51am

Greyfox wrote: »

Your not going to get upset if Coke sales drop off. The emotional attachment and feeling of belonging is real. It can't be helped due to how popular the Premiership is, personally I would find football boring if I didn't support a team.

The thing is that team that got relegated where not enjoyable to watch, a team need to be enjoyable to watch otherwise getting emotionally attached is impossible. Success breeds fans and it's true in all sports at all levels. If i support a local team and never get enjoyment I'd be an idiot if I continue to support them. Your in a dream world if you think people feel guilty, people are proud to be supporting a team for a long time

People do get upset about thier brands.

People actually preferred the new brand in taste tests. But they just did not like the branding.
The Premier League wins with that branding in a football sense.

People do feel guilty.
If not, why do Irish Premier League supporters always try and justify thier support of a Premier League team in Ireland so?
It is not the same as saying well 'I support that team because it is where I am from.'

The Moldy Gowl · 03-06-2019 11:57am

niallo27 wrote: »

I agree it wouldnt work, I was just saying I would love it. Ennis was packed yesterday an hour before the game.

Limerick is a funny one. For a county that goes on a lot about sports, a lot are bandwagoners.

I know a lad that loves football, he had never bothered his hole going to a limerick match.
He follows Salford United and man utd.
Will post up Instagram stories saying hon Salford.
He would be the type of lad who would be hooked on live football if he went but it's a shame he hasn't.

Coillte_Bhoy · 03-06-2019 11:59am

Omackeral wrote: »

Not disputing that. Was merely countering a point made by another poster saying every county should have a team. I'm wondering who'd show up to see them. Wouldn't work in Cork, Louth, Galway for example... or Dublin as we've seen. Kilkenny and Monaghan look a no-go too if history has shown us anything.

Well as regards Galway or Sligo those clubs have county wide supports who identify with them as their own (ok Galway support is poor anyway), turning them into 'county' teams' wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Im from mayo and im not sure would there be much support for a 'Mayo' team in the LOI, i think the best option would be for a club based in Castlebar/Westport that could promote itself as 'Mayo' club. Even so id be dubious of its chances of any success.

niallo27 · 03-06-2019 12:02pm

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

Limerick is a funny one. For a county that goes on a lot about sports, a lot are bandwagoners.

I know a lad that loves football, he had never bothered his hole going to a limerick match.
He follows Salford United and man utd.
Will post up Instagram stories saying hon Salford.
He would be the type of lad who would be hooked on live football if he went but it's a shame he hasn't.

I agree, Munster rugby is a huge example of pure bandwagon supporting but they did it right. There is no promotion of football in limerick, now the junior game is quiet strong in limerick so I suspect these clubs are holding it back too.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 12:04pm

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

Limerick is a funny one. For a county that goes on a lot about sports, a lot are bandwagoners.

I know a lad that loves football, he had never bothered his hole going to a limerick match.
He follows Salford United and man utd.
Will post up Instagram stories saying hon Salford.
He would be the type of lad who would be hooked on live football if he went but it's a shame he hasn't.

I found this gas, I am just wondering how many Salford followers say 'hon Salford' ?

Gary Neville and 'the class of 92's' work really should be praised!
(Again - Strong Brand promotion wins)

The Moldy Gowl · 03-06-2019 12:20pm

niallo27 wrote: »

I agree, Munster rugby is a huge example of pure bandwagon supporting but they did it right. There is no promotion of football in limerick, now the junior game is quiet strong in limerick so I suspect these clubs are holding it back too.

Ya munster are the worse for it but it gets seats on bums. But the atmosphere is awful there. I went to a game few months ago. 13,000 people there and no noise. Think rugby is more a game for TV than going.
I don't like rugby so I'm biased. At least you could drink in the stands.

I don't follow GAA either but there has been an increase of friends posting about limerick GAA when they won the all Ireland.
The city people are fair weather supporters so if limerick fc ever do sort themselves out, a few might join the wagon.

I was out in limerick on Saturday and there was a rake of Liverpool and even spurs fans around so there is football people there

The Moldy Gowl · 03-06-2019 12:23pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I found this gas, I am just wondering how many Salford followers say 'hon Salford' ?

Gary Neville and 'the class of 92's' work really should be praised!
(Again - Strong Brand promotion wins)

Ya that and them throwing millions at getting promoted. They are the man City of the lower leauges.
Richie towell is going to them. Ex LOI player. So hopefully that will get him interested.

8-10 · 03-06-2019 12:29pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are person who enjoys whatever sport it is, as everyone is entitled.
But do you attach a 'we' prefix in-front of a team from that sport and try and ape the locals?

I don’t know what ape means in this context but I say we, yes

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 12:38pm

Plus there is the opposite effect seen the GAA.
They do not even bother to market the games properly, they might do it once in a while like the 125 celebrations/1916.
They are a bit of a joke at branding and marketing most of the time.
If they did it right with restructuring of competitions they could make fortunes.
But they move very, very slowly and change slowly. It drives GAA supporters mad but most still go, most out of a sense of duty to thier place, thier team.

Why do they not bother to market it right? Because they know that people come out of loyalty, to a place where they are from.
And the GAA they are not really bothered/not used to commercialism.

In contrast - the Premier League is heavily marketed worldwide - the changes from the days of Div 1 - Div 2 - Div 3 - Div 4 was a simple masterstroke in re-branding.
Doesn't 'The Championship' sound much better than than Div 2? Or 'League one' sounds much better than Div 3?

It is not only Ireland where the Premier League is heavily marketed, the clubs make fortunes from selling shirts/merch in other far flung parts of the world. Asia in particular. It is why you will see the Premier League teams have a money-spinning game in Asia. USA before coming doing a friendly in Dublin, then home to England.
But I do find it very odd when a LOI team plays Liverpool in a pre-season friendly and it gets a sell out crowd of 50k!
And then be full of Liverpool ' fans' with Irish accents cheering for Liverpool!

Maybe I am just too cynical about the whole thing? And can see through the 'Super Sunday's' - etc.
I would just feel like an absolute complete fake if I suddenly started buying a Premier League teams jersey
And if I pretended to have some sort of attachment. I would be really embarrassed with myself deep down
Just because they won something or I thought x player was great - I would be saying 'we' for a team in a city whose road names I would have to google map.
To me personally that is just wrong, really wrong.

Is it not an insult to the locals who support that big team and struggle to get tickets, because of countrywide interest from other 'fans', and worldwide 'fans' ?
Is it not just a corporate entity like Apple/Coke/McDonald's ?

That is how I feel about the thing - when I think about how I could not bring myself to 'support' a Premier League team.
Also when Irish people say Premier League team 99% of the time they always mean a 'top six' team.

The rest of the Premier League is of no real interest to a follower of a Premier League team in Ireland.
So then I ask myself are they really soccer fans, or do they just like the 'brand association' ? To a strong brand.

omega man · 03-06-2019 12:54pm

Clare in Exile wrote: »

Interesting discussion. As a child I was almost obsessed with Liverpool, but the older I became the more I realised that I had no real connection with them, that this whole thing of referring to them as "we" or "us" was actually quite hollow.

The Premier League is a massive global enterprise these days, as I read some place last week it's an international league played in England. The days of yore when Irish players played for Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal/Spurs are long gone - so that sense of an Irish connection to those clubs is becoming even more tenuous.

The influx of non British or Irish players has totally changed the dynamic of the product - one of the reasons why I feel the Liverpool v Man Utd contest has become somewhat diluted recently.

Regarding what that Liverpool fan in that clip said about the club becoming a haven for tourist fans, I recall reading some You Tube comments a while back, one of which was from a Liverpool local complaining about "Pissed up Paddies" coming to Anfield for matches.

I'd be interested to delve further into the topic of local fans of the big English clubs and how they feel about the influx of foreign fans into their clubs - do they look on with bemusement at the whole thing or just accept that it is part and parcel of the massive product that the Premier League has become?

As others have said, I've grown to appreciate more the GAA and how it accommodates one's sense of county allegiance. Nowadays watching a game I only truly feel a sense of "my" team when it is county or country.

I watch a load of soccer as I'm a big sports fan, and can appreciate and enjoy the games without getting drawn into some tribal dispute about "my" team - each to their own though.

Interesting debate, some good discussion on it...

Very good post and sums up my own experience and without been critical of those who enjoy supporting English teams. There’s no right or wrong opinions...

D14Rugby · 03-06-2019 1:00pm

Strumms wrote: »

People enjoy the Premiership, La Liga etc simply because it’s a much much better, much much more entertaining product than has been on offer here.

Better players
Better teams
Better facilities
Better atmospheres
Better competition
Better entertainment
Better excitement
Better occasions....

BETTER.

In addition there will have beeen in many cases the likes of family loyalty etc..

If you want some invisible credit like pat on the back for preferring to be down Tolka Park on a pissy cold and wet evening in April, in a quarter full ‘stadium’ with little atmosphere, debatable interest, players doing there upmost more power to you, I say why not try both and ENJOY both were possible but the idea that people should be questioned or criticized for liking Premiership football is just fûcking daft and some.

You can have the first 3 but after that nah none of that stuff is better in the English Premier League (not been called the Premiership for over a decade at this stage). Especially not atmospheres, compare even the biggest EPL games to Rovers Bohs and its not even a contest, even neutrals like copa 90 will tell you that

niallo27 · 03-06-2019 1:02pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus there is the opposite effect seen the GAA.
They do not even bother to market the games properly, they might do it once in a while like the 125 celebrations/1916.
They are a bit of a joke at branding and marketing most of the time.
If they did it right with restructuring of competitions they could make fortunes.
But they move very, very slowly and change slowly. It drives GAA supporters mad but most still go, most out of a sense of duty to thier place, thier team.

Why do they not bother to market it right? Because they know that people come out of loyalty, to a place where they are from.
And the GAA they are not really bothered/not used to commercialism.

In contrast - the Premier League is heavily marketed worldwide - the changes from the days of Div 1 - Div 2 - Div 3 - Div 4 was a simple masterstroke in re-branding.
Doesn't 'The Championship' sound much better than than Div 2? Or 'League one' sounds much better than Div 3?

It is not only Ireland where the Premier League is heavily marketed, the clubs make fortunes from selling shirts/merch in other far flung parts of the world. Asia in particular. It is why you will see the Premier League teams have a money-spinning game in Asia. USA before coming doing a friendly in Dublin, then home to England.
But I do find it very odd when a LOI team plays Liverpool in a pre-season friendly and it gets a sell out crowd of 50k!
And then be full of Liverpool ' fans' with Irish accents cheering for Liverpool!

Maybe I am just too cynical about the whole thing? And can see through the 'Super Sunday's' - etc.
I would just feel like an absolute complete fake if I suddenly started buying a Premier League teams jersey
And if I pretended to have some sort of attachment. I would be really embarrassed with myself deep down
Just because they won something or I thought x player was great - I would be saying 'we' for a team in a city whose road names I would have to google map.
To me personally that is just wrong, really wrong.

Is it not an insult to the locals who support that big team and struggle to get tickets, because of countrywide interest from other 'fans', and worldwide 'fans' ?
Is it not just a corporate entity like Apple/Coke/McDonald's ?

That is how I feel about the thing - when I think about how I could not bring myself to 'support' a Premier League team.
Also when Irish people say Premier League team 99% of the time they always mean a 'top six' team.

The rest of the Premier League is of no real interest to a follower of a Premier League team in Ireland.
So then I ask myself are they really soccer fans, or do they just like the 'brand association' ? To a strong brand.

The gaa have introduced the super 8s and completely restructured the Munster and lenister championship. There are 4 or 5 live games every weekend. On your point of loyalty why was there only 3 thousand at limerick and cork on Saturday night while the football was on.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 1:09pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

You can have the first 3 but after that nah none of that stuff is better in the English Premier League (not been called the Premiership for over a decade at this stage). Especially not atmospheres, compare even the biggest EPL games to Rovers Bohs and its not even a contest, even neutrals like copa 90 will tell you that

Even this fella recommending a Premier League team for new foreign supporters to support - he prefaces by saying support your nearest local team first.

He understands the value of supporting your team your place.
Your 'manor' as the East Londoners say.

Others have gone the other way season ticket holder from Liverpool was disillusioned with the modern game.
So went to support a non-league team way down the pyramid - in the Northern Premier League. (Level 7)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_F.C.

I am not sure an Irish person would do this. Most would be afraid of being 'laughed at'.
If you have this mentality you just would never understand why people support lower level teams anywhere, away from the glamour/hype etc

bodhrandude · 03-06-2019 1:24pm

I can imagine UK TV was as responsible in some ways for influencing people following football teams, before Saorview of course when some of the Republic could get the British channels. The same with the pop scene, Top of the Pops, The Tube and The Word, a lot of UK pop and rock which also influenced the soccer scene, wasn't George Best once likened to be the fifth Beatle.

irishguitarlad · 03-06-2019 1:25pm

I remember I used to follow Chelsea like mad, even before the Abramovich days. As I got older I saw the association with that club as extremely hollow. I had never been to Stamford Bridge for example. However, I've been living in Spain for four years and I support the local team here, I even had a season ticket last year. I feel like I have a connection with the club. My friend back in Ireland(a liverpool fan) can't get his head around this and he keeps going on about chelsea to me when I haven't seen a Chelsea game in about 5 years. Then when I say I only watch my local La Liga team he makes some sneering comment about the spanish league and it's quality. I hope he was watching the same champions league final as I was Saturday as it was turgid.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 1:30pm

niallo27 wrote: »

The gaa have introduced the super 8s and completely restructured the Munster and lenister championship. There are 4 or 5 live games every weekend. On your point of loyalty why was there only 3 thousand at limerick and cork on Saturday night while the football was on.

That was belatedly change for change sake trying to please all and satisfying none.
The Hurling worked more game same level same quality teams against each other.
The Siper 8s was half @rsed change.

There used be a sense of strong community in Irish soccer Cork Hibs v Cork Celtic. Drums v Rovers. Huge crowds
There is a major void in Irish soccer now. A lost of sense of community and sense of place and self. Since the late 60s/70s most Irish soccer people pick a top six English team to try and create that sense of community/that sense of belonging.
It is also gentrified among those top six English teams, the middle class Irish do no have to associate with the working class. As most of them are priced out of it.

The fact there was only 3k at the Limerick Cork game proves my point only 3k of a hardcore have that sense of place.
There are a number of other factors at play here.
The others were seduced by a massive global sporting event, which superseded thier sense of place.
The GAA know the rest of those supporters will be back later in the year - so it does not bother them..
Plus Cork are notoriously poor supporters at football (Plus thier football team is the weakest for a long time), they consider themselves a hurling county first and football county second.
The same with Limerick. Both county's are massive supporters when it comes to the small ball, not the round ball.

DeanAustin · 03-06-2019 1:32pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Basically yeah you are a consumer of brands, super huge global brands. Like the way some people go mad worldwide over apple iphones

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/iphone-8-latest-news-updates-apple-fan-10-days-queues-release-sydney-australia-mazen-kourouche-a7942826.html

Look at this emotion over a material good - a global brand - tears and everything. (The Key Ring did not get much reaction)

I can see why you got sucked into supporting Spurs your brother brought the jerseys, had the Hoddle posters on the wall.

But your brother started supporting Spurs not only because of Hoddle's silky passing skills but because they won things FA Cups, UEFA cups massive exposure for a young fella back then the FA cup was huge. And Spurs were a cup team.

Your brother was never going to pick the likes of Birmingham, Stoke, or Leicester.

When Irish people say they are fans of the Premier League and support a team from there 99% of them really only mean the top six/ maybe eight at a push.
They do not really have much interest in the other teams at all.

My brother supported Spurs before the FA Cup wins or UEFA Cup wins of the 80s but undoubtedly the fact Spurs are one of England’s biggest clubs played a role in his choice.

But it’s disingenuous to equate it with being a consumer of Apple or Coke. Very few iPhone owners react like that to a product release. Most football fans show some level of passion when their team plays.

By your logic every music fan, you included, are nothing more than consumers of brands. Sport and music are far more than that.

Greyfox · 03-06-2019 1:41pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If a person really liked sport for the sake of sport, they would have no problem going to see two teams of a low but similar level compete with each other.

If you love a sport you want to see it played at the highest level. And when your use to watching sport at the highest level it can be difficult to adjust to watching it at a lower level.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

People do feel guilty.
If not, why do Irish Premier League supporters always try and justify thier support of a Premier League team in Ireland so?
It is not the same as saying well 'I support that team because it is where I am from.'

They don't. Because they know there are people out there who dont undetstand why they use "we" when there talking about there club.

Why do Irish people support English teams?

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