Why do Irish people support English teams?

03-06-2019 11:33AM

niallo27 wrote: »

Of course people will turn to England because Irish people love football.

That makes no sense. If they really and truly love football, they'd support it and immerse themselves in the culture of it and it would improve drastically. We're great at doing it at big tournaments for Ireland but not week in and week out.

I take your point about no teams in some places. I hope that changes. I'd love to see Kerry enter a team in the LOI. Kilkenny had one. People didn't show up. Ditto for Monaghan. Dublin City came out with lovely navy and blue county colours... people didn't care.

niallo27 · 03-06-2019 11:36AM

Omackeral wrote: »

That makes no sense. If they really and truly love football, they'd support it and immerse themselves in the culture of it and it would improve drastically. We're great at doing it at big tournaments for Ireland but not week in and week out.

I take your point about no teams in some places. I hope that changes. I'd love to see Kerry enter a team in the LOI. Kilkenny had one. People didn't show up. Ditto for Monaghan. Dublin City came out with lovely navy and blue county colours... people didn't care.

It needs to be marketed better though, there needs to be a plan. Look at Munster rugby, it started out being watched in front of a 100 people and now it's a global brand. People in Clare and limerick absolutely love football but we have no options. Limerick city is a joke of a club.

trashcan · 03-06-2019 11:40AM

Greyfox wrote: »

. I actually do think I should be supporting a LOI team too though

Well, yeah, you can do both you know. You never know, you might surprise yourself. Depends on your expectations really. If you go to LOI football expecting something that can compete with the English premier league then you are going to come away disappointed. On the other hand, take the game on its own merits and it can be just as enjoyable. You can see good football, great goals at times, and plenty of drama. Above all, it's about caring. How many awful Ireland matches have people sat through, but it doesn't matter because there is an emotional investment there.

03-06-2019 11:41AM

niallo27 wrote: »

People in Clare and limerick absolutely love football but we have no options. Limerick city is a joke of a club.

Limerick is badly run. It's a shame as it has great history. If people showed up it would be better. But then you can't blame people for not showing up to badly run clubs. Badly run clubs won't get better without people showing up. It's a Catch 22.

Would you go to see a Clare LOI team if it formed? Would you give it a chance?

Strumms · 03-06-2019 11:41AM

Omackeral wrote: »

Dublin City came out with lovely navy and blue county colours... people didn't care.

That experiment was doomed to failure. Why should people have cared ? Because this newly made up club had a nice blue strip ? With Bohs, Shels and Pats, all established clubs with rich history struggling to put bums on seats, let’s invent a new team to further dilute the market and see what happens, not the brightest move as history proved.

03-06-2019 11:41AM

trashcan wrote: »

Well, yeah, you can do both you know. You never know, you might surprise yourself. Depends on your expectations really. If you go to LOI football expecting something that can compete with the English premier league then you are going to come away disappointed. On the other hand, take the game on its own merits and it can be just as enjoyable. You can see good football, great goals at times, and plenty of drama. Above all, it's about caring. How many awful Ireland matches have people sat through, but it doesn't matter because there is an emotional investment there.

You might also see the next James McClean coming through.

03-06-2019 11:43AM

Strumms wrote: »

That experiment was doomed to failure. Why should people have cared ? Because this newly made up club had a nice blue strip ? With Bohs, Shels and Pats, all established clubs with rich history struggling to put bums on seats, let’s invent a new team to further dilute the market and see what happens, not the brightest move as history proved.

Not disputing that. Was merely countering a point made by another poster saying every county should have a team. I'm wondering who'd show up to see them. Wouldn't work in Cork, Louth, Galway for example... or Dublin as we've seen. Kilkenny and Monaghan look a no-go too if history has shown us anything.

Greyfox · 03-06-2019 11:45AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is like people picking Pepsi or Coke. Some people went mad in the 80's when 'New Coke' was created.

... It is then assumed that you must 'support' a Premiership team! I get funny looks when I say I don't 'support' any of them...
I can see why people get sucked into 'supporting' a successful team at the age of 10 though. Youngsters want to be associated with famous glamorous winners.
How many 10 year olds pick the team that got relegated in the year they watch the premier league.
Many Fulham/Cardiff/Huddersfield fans this year?

Plus I always noticed Irish fans of Premier League teams feel the need to justify how long they are supporting thier team - it almost seems like a guilt thing.
They feel guilty for doing so a little bit dirty?

Your not going to get upset if Coke sales drop off. The emotional attachment and feeling of belonging is real. It can't be helped due to how popular the Premiership is, personally I would find football boring if I didn't support a team.

The thing is that team that got relegated where not enjoyable to watch, a team need to be enjoyable to watch otherwise getting emotionally attached is impossible. Success breeds fans and it's true in all sports at all levels. If i support a local team and never get enjoyment I'd be an idiot if I continue to support them. Your in a dream world if you think people feel guilty, people are proud to be supporting a team for a long time

The Moldy Gowl · 03-06-2019 11:45AM

niallo27 wrote: »

Football in Ireland is for Dublin people, let's be realistic here. I'm from Clare and I would love if we had an all Ireland system with 32 counties but it will never happen because of how badly it is run. Of course people will turn to England because Irish people love football.

On a side note I was in Ennis yesterday and the amount of people that abused their own players was a ****en disgrace, **** gaa fans. Most fickle supporters around.

It is very Dublin centric. A lot of the reason no one knows about it is because of the fai.

Some is down to ignorance, the perception is that it is ****e.

One thing that is sad is the best fans in the world ™ that get wheeled out at competitions and a lot wouldn't have a clue about the LOI.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 11:46AM

8-10 wrote: »

I follow sports that Ireland don’t have any teams in, let alone Dublin!

You are person who enjoys whatever sport it is, as everyone is entitled.
But do you attach a 'we' prefix in-front of a team from that sport and try and ape the locals?

niallo27 · 03-06-2019 11:46AM

Omackeral wrote: »

Not disputing that. Was merely countering a point made by another poster saying every county should have a team. I'm wondering who'd show up to see them. Wouldn't work in Cork, Louth, Galway for example... or Dublin as we've seen. Kilkenny and Monaghan look a no-go too if history has shown us anything.

I agree it wouldnt work, I was just saying I would love it. Ennis was packed yesterday an hour before the game.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 11:51AM

Greyfox wrote: »

Your not going to get upset if Coke sales drop off. The emotional attachment and feeling of belonging is real. It can't be helped due to how popular the Premiership is, personally I would find football boring if I didn't support a team.

The thing is that team that got relegated where not enjoyable to watch, a team need to be enjoyable to watch otherwise getting emotionally attached is impossible. Success breeds fans and it's true in all sports at all levels. If i support a local team and never get enjoyment I'd be an idiot if I continue to support them. Your in a dream world if you think people feel guilty, people are proud to be supporting a team for a long time

People do get upset about thier brands.

People actually preferred the new brand in taste tests. But they just did not like the branding.
The Premier League wins with that branding in a football sense.

People do feel guilty.
If not, why do Irish Premier League supporters always try and justify thier support of a Premier League team in Ireland so?
It is not the same as saying well 'I support that team because it is where I am from.'

The Moldy Gowl · 03-06-2019 11:57AM

niallo27 wrote: »

I agree it wouldnt work, I was just saying I would love it. Ennis was packed yesterday an hour before the game.

Limerick is a funny one. For a county that goes on a lot about sports, a lot are bandwagoners.

I know a lad that loves football, he had never bothered his hole going to a limerick match.
He follows Salford United and man utd.
Will post up Instagram stories saying hon Salford.
He would be the type of lad who would be hooked on live football if he went but it's a shame he hasn't.

Coillte_Bhoy · 03-06-2019 11:59AM

Omackeral wrote: »

Not disputing that. Was merely countering a point made by another poster saying every county should have a team. I'm wondering who'd show up to see them. Wouldn't work in Cork, Louth, Galway for example... or Dublin as we've seen. Kilkenny and Monaghan look a no-go too if history has shown us anything.

Well as regards Galway or Sligo those clubs have county wide supports who identify with them as their own (ok Galway support is poor anyway), turning them into 'county' teams' wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Im from mayo and im not sure would there be much support for a 'Mayo' team in the LOI, i think the best option would be for a club based in Castlebar/Westport that could promote itself as 'Mayo' club. Even so id be dubious of its chances of any success.

niallo27 · 03-06-2019 12:02PM

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

Limerick is a funny one. For a county that goes on a lot about sports, a lot are bandwagoners.

I know a lad that loves football, he had never bothered his hole going to a limerick match.
He follows Salford United and man utd.
Will post up Instagram stories saying hon Salford.
He would be the type of lad who would be hooked on live football if he went but it's a shame he hasn't.

I agree, Munster rugby is a huge example of pure bandwagon supporting but they did it right. There is no promotion of football in limerick, now the junior game is quiet strong in limerick so I suspect these clubs are holding it back too.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 12:04PM

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

Limerick is a funny one. For a county that goes on a lot about sports, a lot are bandwagoners.

I know a lad that loves football, he had never bothered his hole going to a limerick match.
He follows Salford United and man utd.
Will post up Instagram stories saying hon Salford.
He would be the type of lad who would be hooked on live football if he went but it's a shame he hasn't.

I found this gas, I am just wondering how many Salford followers say 'hon Salford' ?

Gary Neville and 'the class of 92's' work really should be praised!
(Again - Strong Brand promotion wins)

The Moldy Gowl · 03-06-2019 12:20PM

niallo27 wrote: »

I agree, Munster rugby is a huge example of pure bandwagon supporting but they did it right. There is no promotion of football in limerick, now the junior game is quiet strong in limerick so I suspect these clubs are holding it back too.

Ya munster are the worse for it but it gets seats on bums. But the atmosphere is awful there. I went to a game few months ago. 13,000 people there and no noise. Think rugby is more a game for TV than going.
I don't like rugby so I'm biased. At least you could drink in the stands.

I don't follow GAA either but there has been an increase of friends posting about limerick GAA when they won the all Ireland.
The city people are fair weather supporters so if limerick fc ever do sort themselves out, a few might join the wagon.

I was out in limerick on Saturday and there was a rake of Liverpool and even spurs fans around so there is football people there

The Moldy Gowl · 03-06-2019 12:23PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I found this gas, I am just wondering how many Salford followers say 'hon Salford' ?

Gary Neville and 'the class of 92's' work really should be praised!
(Again - Strong Brand promotion wins)

Ya that and them throwing millions at getting promoted. They are the man City of the lower leauges.
Richie towell is going to them. Ex LOI player. So hopefully that will get him interested.

8-10 · 03-06-2019 12:29PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are person who enjoys whatever sport it is, as everyone is entitled.
But do you attach a 'we' prefix in-front of a team from that sport and try and ape the locals?

I don’t know what ape means in this context but I say we, yes

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 12:38PM

Plus there is the opposite effect seen the GAA.
They do not even bother to market the games properly, they might do it once in a while like the 125 celebrations/1916.
They are a bit of a joke at branding and marketing most of the time.
If they did it right with restructuring of competitions they could make fortunes.
But they move very, very slowly and change slowly. It drives GAA supporters mad but most still go, most out of a sense of duty to thier place, thier team.

Why do they not bother to market it right? Because they know that people come out of loyalty, to a place where they are from.
And the GAA they are not really bothered/not used to commercialism.

In contrast - the Premier League is heavily marketed worldwide - the changes from the days of Div 1 - Div 2 - Div 3 - Div 4 was a simple masterstroke in re-branding.
Doesn't 'The Championship' sound much better than than Div 2? Or 'League one' sounds much better than Div 3?

It is not only Ireland where the Premier League is heavily marketed, the clubs make fortunes from selling shirts/merch in other far flung parts of the world. Asia in particular. It is why you will see the Premier League teams have a money-spinning game in Asia. USA before coming doing a friendly in Dublin, then home to England.
But I do find it very odd when a LOI team plays Liverpool in a pre-season friendly and it gets a sell out crowd of 50k!
And then be full of Liverpool ' fans' with Irish accents cheering for Liverpool!

Maybe I am just too cynical about the whole thing? And can see through the 'Super Sunday's' - etc.
I would just feel like an absolute complete fake if I suddenly started buying a Premier League teams jersey
And if I pretended to have some sort of attachment. I would be really embarrassed with myself deep down
Just because they won something or I thought x player was great - I would be saying 'we' for a team in a city whose road names I would have to google map.
To me personally that is just wrong, really wrong.

Is it not an insult to the locals who support that big team and struggle to get tickets, because of countrywide interest from other 'fans', and worldwide 'fans' ?
Is it not just a corporate entity like Apple/Coke/McDonald's ?

That is how I feel about the thing - when I think about how I could not bring myself to 'support' a Premier League team.
Also when Irish people say Premier League team 99% of the time they always mean a 'top six' team.

The rest of the Premier League is of no real interest to a follower of a Premier League team in Ireland.
So then I ask myself are they really soccer fans, or do they just like the 'brand association' ? To a strong brand.

omega man · 03-06-2019 12:54PM

Clare in Exile wrote: »

Interesting discussion. As a child I was almost obsessed with Liverpool, but the older I became the more I realised that I had no real connection with them, that this whole thing of referring to them as "we" or "us" was actually quite hollow.

The Premier League is a massive global enterprise these days, as I read some place last week it's an international league played in England. The days of yore when Irish players played for Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal/Spurs are long gone - so that sense of an Irish connection to those clubs is becoming even more tenuous.

The influx of non British or Irish players has totally changed the dynamic of the product - one of the reasons why I feel the Liverpool v Man Utd contest has become somewhat diluted recently.

Regarding what that Liverpool fan in that clip said about the club becoming a haven for tourist fans, I recall reading some You Tube comments a while back, one of which was from a Liverpool local complaining about "Pissed up Paddies" coming to Anfield for matches.

I'd be interested to delve further into the topic of local fans of the big English clubs and how they feel about the influx of foreign fans into their clubs - do they look on with bemusement at the whole thing or just accept that it is part and parcel of the massive product that the Premier League has become?

As others have said, I've grown to appreciate more the GAA and how it accommodates one's sense of county allegiance. Nowadays watching a game I only truly feel a sense of "my" team when it is county or country.

I watch a load of soccer as I'm a big sports fan, and can appreciate and enjoy the games without getting drawn into some tribal dispute about "my" team - each to their own though.

Interesting debate, some good discussion on it...

Very good post and sums up my own experience and without been critical of those who enjoy supporting English teams. There’s no right or wrong opinions...

D14Rugby · 03-06-2019 01:00PM

Strumms wrote: »

People enjoy the Premiership, La Liga etc simply because it’s a much much better, much much more entertaining product than has been on offer here.

Better players
Better teams
Better facilities
Better atmospheres
Better competition
Better entertainment
Better excitement
Better occasions....

BETTER.

In addition there will have beeen in many cases the likes of family loyalty etc..

If you want some invisible credit like pat on the back for preferring to be down Tolka Park on a pissy cold and wet evening in April, in a quarter full ‘stadium’ with little atmosphere, debatable interest, players doing there upmost more power to you, I say why not try both and ENJOY both were possible but the idea that people should be questioned or criticized for liking Premiership football is just fûcking daft and some.

You can have the first 3 but after that nah none of that stuff is better in the English Premier League (not been called the Premiership for over a decade at this stage). Especially not atmospheres, compare even the biggest EPL games to Rovers Bohs and its not even a contest, even neutrals like copa 90 will tell you that

niallo27 · 03-06-2019 01:02PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus there is the opposite effect seen the GAA.
They do not even bother to market the games properly, they might do it once in a while like the 125 celebrations/1916.
They are a bit of a joke at branding and marketing most of the time.
If they did it right with restructuring of competitions they could make fortunes.
But they move very, very slowly and change slowly. It drives GAA supporters mad but most still go, most out of a sense of duty to thier place, thier team.

Why do they not bother to market it right? Because they know that people come out of loyalty, to a place where they are from.
And the GAA they are not really bothered/not used to commercialism.

In contrast - the Premier League is heavily marketed worldwide - the changes from the days of Div 1 - Div 2 - Div 3 - Div 4 was a simple masterstroke in re-branding.
Doesn't 'The Championship' sound much better than than Div 2? Or 'League one' sounds much better than Div 3?

It is not only Ireland where the Premier League is heavily marketed, the clubs make fortunes from selling shirts/merch in other far flung parts of the world. Asia in particular. It is why you will see the Premier League teams have a money-spinning game in Asia. USA before coming doing a friendly in Dublin, then home to England.
But I do find it very odd when a LOI team plays Liverpool in a pre-season friendly and it gets a sell out crowd of 50k!
And then be full of Liverpool ' fans' with Irish accents cheering for Liverpool!

Maybe I am just too cynical about the whole thing? And can see through the 'Super Sunday's' - etc.
I would just feel like an absolute complete fake if I suddenly started buying a Premier League teams jersey
And if I pretended to have some sort of attachment. I would be really embarrassed with myself deep down
Just because they won something or I thought x player was great - I would be saying 'we' for a team in a city whose road names I would have to google map.
To me personally that is just wrong, really wrong.

Is it not an insult to the locals who support that big team and struggle to get tickets, because of countrywide interest from other 'fans', and worldwide 'fans' ?
Is it not just a corporate entity like Apple/Coke/McDonald's ?

That is how I feel about the thing - when I think about how I could not bring myself to 'support' a Premier League team.
Also when Irish people say Premier League team 99% of the time they always mean a 'top six' team.

The rest of the Premier League is of no real interest to a follower of a Premier League team in Ireland.
So then I ask myself are they really soccer fans, or do they just like the 'brand association' ? To a strong brand.

The gaa have introduced the super 8s and completely restructured the Munster and lenister championship. There are 4 or 5 live games every weekend. On your point of loyalty why was there only 3 thousand at limerick and cork on Saturday night while the football was on.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 01:09PM

D14Rugby wrote: »

You can have the first 3 but after that nah none of that stuff is better in the English Premier League (not been called the Premiership for over a decade at this stage). Especially not atmospheres, compare even the biggest EPL games to Rovers Bohs and its not even a contest, even neutrals like copa 90 will tell you that

Even this fella recommending a Premier League team for new foreign supporters to support - he prefaces by saying support your nearest local team first.

He understands the value of supporting your team your place.
Your 'manor' as the East Londoners say.

Others have gone the other way season ticket holder from Liverpool was disillusioned with the modern game.
So went to support a non-league team way down the pyramid - in the Northern Premier League. (Level 7)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_F.C.

I am not sure an Irish person would do this. Most would be afraid of being 'laughed at'.
If you have this mentality you just would never understand why people support lower level teams anywhere, away from the glamour/hype etc

bodhrandude · 03-06-2019 01:24PM

I can imagine UK TV was as responsible in some ways for influencing people following football teams, before Saorview of course when some of the Republic could get the British channels. The same with the pop scene, Top of the Pops, The Tube and The Word, a lot of UK pop and rock which also influenced the soccer scene, wasn't George Best once likened to be the fifth Beatle.

irishguitarlad · 03-06-2019 01:25PM

I remember I used to follow Chelsea like mad, even before the Abramovich days. As I got older I saw the association with that club as extremely hollow. I had never been to Stamford Bridge for example. However, I've been living in Spain for four years and I support the local team here, I even had a season ticket last year. I feel like I have a connection with the club. My friend back in Ireland(a liverpool fan) can't get his head around this and he keeps going on about chelsea to me when I haven't seen a Chelsea game in about 5 years. Then when I say I only watch my local La Liga team he makes some sneering comment about the spanish league and it's quality. I hope he was watching the same champions league final as I was Saturday as it was turgid.

gormdubhgorm · 03-06-2019 01:30PM

niallo27 wrote: »

The gaa have introduced the super 8s and completely restructured the Munster and lenister championship. There are 4 or 5 live games every weekend. On your point of loyalty why was there only 3 thousand at limerick and cork on Saturday night while the football was on.

That was belatedly change for change sake trying to please all and satisfying none.
The Hurling worked more game same level same quality teams against each other.
The Siper 8s was half @rsed change.

There used be a sense of strong community in Irish soccer Cork Hibs v Cork Celtic. Drums v Rovers. Huge crowds
There is a major void in Irish soccer now. A lost of sense of community and sense of place and self. Since the late 60s/70s most Irish soccer people pick a top six English team to try and create that sense of community/that sense of belonging.
It is also gentrified among those top six English teams, the middle class Irish do no have to associate with the working class. As most of them are priced out of it.

The fact there was only 3k at the Limerick Cork game proves my point only 3k of a hardcore have that sense of place.
There are a number of other factors at play here.
The others were seduced by a massive global sporting event, which superseded thier sense of place.
The GAA know the rest of those supporters will be back later in the year - so it does not bother them..
Plus Cork are notoriously poor supporters at football (Plus thier football team is the weakest for a long time), they consider themselves a hurling county first and football county second.
The same with Limerick. Both county's are massive supporters when it comes to the small ball, not the round ball.

DeanAustin · 03-06-2019 01:32PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Basically yeah you are a consumer of brands, super huge global brands. Like the way some people go mad worldwide over apple iphones

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/iphone-8-latest-news-updates-apple-fan-10-days-queues-release-sydney-australia-mazen-kourouche-a7942826.html

Look at this emotion over a material good - a global brand - tears and everything. (The Key Ring did not get much reaction)

I can see why you got sucked into supporting Spurs your brother brought the jerseys, had the Hoddle posters on the wall.

But your brother started supporting Spurs not only because of Hoddle's silky passing skills but because they won things FA Cups, UEFA cups massive exposure for a young fella back then the FA cup was huge. And Spurs were a cup team.

Your brother was never going to pick the likes of Birmingham, Stoke, or Leicester.

When Irish people say they are fans of the Premier League and support a team from there 99% of them really only mean the top six/ maybe eight at a push.
They do not really have much interest in the other teams at all.

My brother supported Spurs before the FA Cup wins or UEFA Cup wins of the 80s but undoubtedly the fact Spurs are one of England’s biggest clubs played a role in his choice.

But it’s disingenuous to equate it with being a consumer of Apple or Coke. Very few iPhone owners react like that to a product release. Most football fans show some level of passion when their team plays.

By your logic every music fan, you included, are nothing more than consumers of brands. Sport and music are far more than that.

Greyfox · 03-06-2019 01:41PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If a person really liked sport for the sake of sport, they would have no problem going to see two teams of a low but similar level compete with each other.

If you love a sport you want to see it played at the highest level. And when your use to watching sport at the highest level it can be difficult to adjust to watching it at a lower level.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

People do feel guilty.
If not, why do Irish Premier League supporters always try and justify thier support of a Premier League team in Ireland so?
It is not the same as saying well 'I support that team because it is where I am from.'

They don't. Because they know there are people out there who dont undetstand why they use "we" when there talking about there club.

8-10 · 03-06-2019 01:50PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am not sure an Irish person would do this. Most would be afraid of being 'laughed at'.
If you have this mentality you just would never understand why people support lower level teams anywhere, away from the glamour/hype etc

i don’t think anyone here is of that mentality. You don’t seem to get it reading your posts.

Why do Irish people support English teams?

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