Why do Irish people support English teams?

DEFTLEFTHAND

I was born and raised in Tipperary. My mother kept the home when Dad worked.

Dad worked in the merchant navy for yrs and loved soccer.


He lived in Inchicore when I was born. He was an officer on the Holyhead ferry.


We used to go to Richmond Park. Some of my earliest memomories in life are of him swearing and getting angry with me up on his lap.




He was a very emotive man, but very loving.


I just could never get why most of Dublin and the rest of the country supported the English league .

tuxy

DEFTLEFTHAND

Listen I'm not anti English by any means , i follow the Premier League and watch every game I can.

But I don't support any particular team. I follow St Pats.


That's my Dad's team. An Irish team.

Edenmoar

Some of us were freezing our gonads off in Dalymount last night.
The EPL is a slick product with tonnes of marketing behind it and far more attractive to people than irish football unfortunately. Plus every irish Liverpool or Yenira fan has a “Me Uncle worked der on the sites in the 80s and used to bring me back programs nall” story as justification.

Omackeral

Edenmoar wrote: »

Some of us were freezing our gonads off in Dalymount last night.
The EPL is a slick product with tonnes of marketing behind it and far more attractive to people than irish football unfortunately. Plus every irish Liverpool or Yenira fan has a “Me Uncle worked der on the sites in the 80s and used to bring me back programs nall” story as justification.

Ah that old chestnut. Gas how it's never Luton Town or Birmingham City even though the Irish flooded those places.

salmocab

People naturally lean toward the thing with huge marketing budgets and constant coverage, for an awful lot of people they grew up with access to English tv so had more casual access to English clubs than Irish ones. Going to England for players was always seen as the path to playing top level and it’s probably much the same for supporters.

DEFTLEFTHAND

You can never get that feeling from watching a prem match on tele. It's the live atmosphere.

LOI is a lot higher of standard than the detractors try to say. You watch somebody like Christopher Forrester turn on a ball and get back to me.

The White Wolf

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Listen I'm not anti English by any means , i follow the Premier League and watch every game I can.

But I don't support any particular team. I follow St Pats.


That's my Dad's team. An Irish team.

And I follow my dad's team which happens to be Liverpool. I'm sure you know the craic here really.

Ned Led Zeppo

Is it any wonder that people in this country support soccer in the UK.RTE gives a
half-an hour of LOI highlights of our Premier division(excluding the other ten teams in the first division),they rarely show a match as it is,it beggars belief.

force eleven

I started supporting Arsenal around 78'. There were more Irish players than English in the first team back then.

salmocab

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

You can never get that feeling from watching a prem match on tele. It's the live atmosphere.

LOI is a lot higher of standard than the detractors try to say. You watch somebody like Christopher Forrester turn on a ball and get back to me.

Not sure if you were replying to me but I said nothing negative about LOI, you asked why people support English clubs and I offered a possible reason

DEFTLEFTHAND

The White Wolf wrote: »

And I follow my dad's team which happens to be Liverpool. I'm sure you know the craic here really.

Ya but your Dad wasn't from Liverpool was he?

My Dad used to to look out for Palace in the English League owing to connections he had in Croydon.


But we never got fully into supporting them. Wearing jersisies and chanting daft songs.

Omackeral

People usually come out with the standard is better (and it is) but if that's the case, why not follow Spain or Brazil over Ireland? "Eh I'm not from there obviously ..." Ok but you're not exactly from Merseyside either.

Try that with GAA counties and see what looks you'd get. A Westmeath man supporting Kerry because the standard is better. Doesn't happen. Why not?

This will then be followed up with "ah clubs are different to national teams". Then why do the people of Middlesbrough follow Middlesbrough and why do the people of Bristol support Bristol Rovers or Bristol City?

Why do the so-called best fans in the world get such a pass? To me, the best fans are the ones that are there week-in and week-out, wherever that may be. If your argument is "well it's too far away for me to go away, I've to get a ferry/plane/camel to another country like" then maybe that tells you something from a logical point of view.

The next argument is then "do you only watch Irish films and tv?" to which I'd say no but then again I don't claim to be a die hard Fair City fan because my uncle was in the 90's. You're not gonna be planning for Ros Na Run away on the 19th of March. I've seen supermarkets and products put in this kind of reasoning before too. If you can equate supporting a football team to where you get your bread and milk, then I don't think we're on the same page anyway.

Finally, you'll get people saying "ah let people enjoy what they want". Yes, obviously. That's really just something that goes without saying. By all means enjoy what you want but if someone turns around to you and says "yeah but who do you really support" when you've answered Sligo Rovers or Shels or Cork City it's ironic in that you're really supporting them by being there and by contributing financially. They're your team when you're literally always there.

None of the above is bitter or holier-than-thou, it is all exactly how it is. You're often called a martyr or a snob for simply saying these things because it's easier to just say those words than to actually refute what's been said.

FWIW I love watching Champions League, Premiership and international tournaments but, as the GAA says, nothing beats being there. There's room for having a team at home and a team abroad too, they're not mutually exclusive. Most LOI fans have a team across the water they like, that's another misconception. You can still enjoy games on telly but football shouldn't just be a TV show.

tuxy

Omackeral wrote: »

People usually come out with the standard is better (and it is) but if that's the case, why not follow Spain or Brazil over Ireland? "Eh I'm not from there obviously ..." Ok but you're not exactly from Merseyside either.

To be fair the vast majority of Irish people support England in world cups that Ireland do not qualify for.

Macdarack

Could it stem from people's relations over a hundred or so years coming back from all over Britain who supported football teams, they'd bring back a Jersey, Or a program or pictures of a fine big stadium full of people, then the odd kid was brought over to a game and the little cunce wouldn't shut up about it at school and they'd know another lad who went to one and the banter would start then others would pick a team, whoever, Leeds, cause they were going well in the 80s or whenever, or forest, then united or Liverpool bla bla bla they could pick who they like, but it was the chaps who went there to watch a match,they brought back stories from the promised land, old Traffords , anfield and the kop, Highbury, they were hero's!.
You also had goal magazine, matches on sports stadium every Saturday, tune into BBC radio and catch a match or results, and Irish media would also give what seemed like an hour long run down of English football results.Irish football didn't have a buzz like English football maybe unless you lived in a city but it was nothing like the English setup.
I was shocked one time when a limerick sinn fein was doing an personal interview and was asked what football club does he support, he said arsenal, Maurice quinlivan,

Omackeral

tuxy wrote: »

To be fair the vast majority of Irish people support England in world cups that Ireland do not qualify for.

Oh fuck I can't tell if this is tongue in cheek or not!

Pkiernan

A lot of Irish really wish they were English, I reckon.

Ardillaun

It's the anxiety of influence felt by any smaller nation next to a much larger one that speaks the same, or a similar, language. We have such problems in Canada too with the elephant beside us. Many Irish people are probably unaware that we have our own unique code of football which attracts fewer viewers in our own country than the US version. And don't get me started on movies, news etc.: my immigrant in-laws watch MSNBC 24/7 and seem to think it's Canadian news, and I can't summon the energy to correct them.

Yamanoto

Coddle by the Poddle
vs.
Hoddle & Waddle.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The likes of Waterford Utd used to draw crowds in excess of 50000.

The big Dub derby of that era was Drumcondra FC and Shamrock Rovers.


BBC and Match of the Day was the turning point.


Paddy started supporting the likes of Leeds and Tottenham Hotspur.

8-10

No local team but I did go to all the internationals as a youth and started supporting Liverpool as a decent bunch of Irish players played for them so I could see them on tv

Ardillaun

Omackeral wrote: »

Oh fuck I can't tell if this is tongue in cheek or not!

Such events can evoke unexpected allegiances from the depths. Although being back and forth between the countries in my early years, I was definitely in the Irish camp but something about the Germans got my back up. When West Germany played England in 1990, I found myself rooting for Gazza and the lads who were definitely the underdogs. During the match, he took a ferocious body slam of ice hockey proportions, and yet, Reymar take note, he hopped up and cheerfully patted his Teutonic assailant on the head.

flazio

I think it's because our best players have always joined British teams to make themselves even better and to play in higher competitions like European Cups and naturally we would want to cheer them on. Look at FAI national teams over the past 100 plus years and see where those players played club football. Vast majority would be an English (or Welsh or Scottish) club.

Avatar MIA

tuxy wrote: »

To be fair the vast majority of Irish people support England in world cups that Ireland do not qualify for.

Pkiernan wrote: »

A lot of Irish really wish they were English, I reckon.

I know it's AH, so will take the above with a pinch ofcurry salt.

When I was growing up it was MOTD, LOI existed (so wiki tells me)*, but how were the lads on the school yard going to know diddly squat about anything LOI?

I can also remember a huge contingency of Irish (natural and declared) playing for my and other clubs.

As for quality, for years LOI clubs were battered by their equivalents from small countries in europe*. Things have improved of late, but they can't compete. LOI soccer lurches from one financial crises to another. They cannot even give their players contracts beyond a season/ a year. Take Cork City (who know a thing about going bust), who have been super competitive in the last number of years, winning the title the season before last and this year they lost nine regular players and are struggling. The Dublin teams (which used to dominate) have imploded over recent seasons.

*I did keep an ear out for LOI results on the radio and of course remember the mighty Cork team and their mighty GAA contingent give those German upstarts a run for their money.

TL/DR LOI is literally not in the same league as the PL, and while I wish them well any sanctimonious LOI can incredulous as to how any Irish person could follow English teams (and we can use that term loosely given the number of actual English players in each team) fan, respectfully, DO ONE!

DEFTLEFTHAND

I getting all this Liverpool sh1t at the moment . Boys in my local crying about them. Why don't they support Everton? The Catholic club in the city.

Ardillaun

flazio wrote: »

I think it's because our best players have always joinedmany British teams to make themselves even better and to play in higher competitions like European Cups and naturally we would want to cheer them on. Look at FAI national teams over the past 100 plus years and see where those players played club football. Vast majority would be an English (or Welsh or Scottish) club.

Our best players aren't major stars over there any more. I grew up supporting Man U, George Best intitially, in the First Division but the Champions League is the ultimate level in terms of quality now and the players in the top teams are drawn from the same countries as the Premiership. These days, if you're supporting a particular 'English' team, you're really only cheering for a transient jersey design. In fairness, I guess in this Facebook era, it's not so bizarre to swear allegiance to a 'global product'.

Edenmoar

flazio wrote: »

I think it's because our best players have always joined British teams to make themselves even better and to play in higher competitions like European Cups and naturally we would want to cheer them on. Look at FAI national teams over the past 100 plus years and see where those players played club football. Vast majority would be an English (or Welsh or Scottish) club.

Well we don’t have any “our best players” any more. Pretty much every irish player in England is a donkey now compared to the standard there.
I don’t know if it’s because they get more time on the ball or what but you see fantastic football in the LOI, they play it out from the back and you don’t see much hoofball something Ireland never do and something none of our so called stars could do in England. It’s hot potato football when Ireland play, we are just so bad, and mick isn’t going to have us playing tici taca any time soon.

Avatar MIA

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I getting all this Liverpool sh1t at the moment . Boys in my local crying about them. Why don't they support Everton? The Catholic club in the city.

Because they evolved, got up off their knees?

8-10

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I getting all this Liverpool sh1t at the moment . Boys in my local crying about them. Why don't they support Everton? The Catholic club in the city.

When is the last time you have seen Everton describe themselves as Catholic?

Religion is not part of football

blade1

We made good goalposts and fishing nets for nets in our back garden in the 70's.
All the kids in the area would call where a match would take place most days during the 70'and 80's.
We dreamt of being the players we saw on the T.V. and read about.
Nobody would have aspired to be a L.O.I. player.

flazio

8-10 wrote: »

When is the last time you have seen Everton describe themselves as Catholic?

Religion is not part of football

Try telling that to the Scottish Old Firm.
Also some good points about Irish player not being what they used to be, but the seeds are already sown, our parents supported British clubs so we do too. Same as a lot of countries really.

Edenmoar

blade1 wrote: »

We made good goalposts and fishing nets for nets in our back garden in the 70's.
All the kids in the area would call where a match would take place most days during the 70'and 80's.
We dreamt of being the players we saw on the T.V. and read about.
Nobody would have aspired to be a L.O.I. player.

Jumpers for goal posts, isn’t it?

8-10

flazio wrote: »

Try telling that to the Scottish Old Firm.

That’s a topic for a different thread. The OP is basically saying Irish Catholics should support Everton just like they should support Celtic.

I disagree with both, we should be far past using religion as the basis for doing anything. We have free will, we are no longer obliged to follow the church blindly

But overall I don’t even agree with the assertion the Everton is a Catholic club and Liverpool isn’t. Both are far more diverse and international these days, I don’t think that opinion is based in reality. If they’re officially Catholic they don’t show it and haven’t mentioned it anytime recently

demanufactured

What I can never understand is how English teams are made up of foreign players.
Their top player is "Luciani mato Gestapo", yet the team is named "insert English town" United.

8-10

demanufactured wrote: »

What I can never understand is how English teams are made up of foreign players.
Their top player is "Luciani mato Gestapo", yet the team is named "insert English town" United.

Luis Amour Rodriguez at Harchester United

Story checks out

Avatar MIA

demanufactured wrote: »

What I can never understand is how English teams are made up of foreign players.
Their top player is "Luciani mato Gestapo", yet the team is named "insert English town" United.

Google Bosman ruling. Players a lot freer to follow the money.

Achasanai

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I just could never get why most of Dublin and the rest of the country supported the English league .

MOTD and live matches would have been the start of it. Not everyone's interest in football is going to see it week-in and week-out. It's handy having it on the tv, particularly so if you're a kid. A kid will usually support whoever is successful at the time which makes sense if the tv thing is true. The elaborate stories about how you chose the one team that your father hated, just as a way to annoy him, the team just happening to turn out to be Chelsea, these would come later.

Ardillaun

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I getting all this Liverpool sh1t at the moment . Boys in my local crying about them. Why don't they support Everton? The Catholic club in the city.

That's another historical fact lost in the wash. My Liverpudlian cousins were all fanatical Everton fans but the whole thing wasn't that overt even in my time unlike the Glasgow rivalry. I think Liverpool's pre-Fergie dominance created a legion of new Irish supporters which is why I would urge any oligarch with hot money to park to find a smaller London club. Loyalty can be bought.

Omackeral

Avatar MIA wrote: »

TL/DR LOI is literally not in the same league as the PL

Nobody thinks it is. Nobody.

Avatar MIA wrote: »

While I wish them well any sanctimonious LOI fan incredulous as to how any Irish person could follow English teams (and we can use that term loosely given the number of actual English players in each team) fan, respectfully, DO ONE!

I love how you finished that with the most English of English sayings. Hope that was intentional. Bang of Jeremy Kyle off it :pac:

Omackeral

Ardillaun wrote: »

Our best players aren't major stars over there any more. I grew up supporting Man U, George Best intitially, in the First Division but the Champions League is the ultimate level in terms of quality now and the players in the top teams are drawn from the same countries as the Premiership.

Who wants to tell him...

Omackeral

Ardillaun wrote: »

Our best players aren't major stars over there any more. I grew up supporting Man U, George Best intitially, in the First Division but the Champions League is the ultimate level in terms of quality now and the players in the top teams are drawn from the same countries as the Premiership.

Who wants to tell him...

Avatar MIA

Omackeral wrote: »

Nobody thinks it is. Nobody.

So the thread is answered.

Omackeral wrote: »

I love how you finished that with the most English of English sayings. Hope that was intentional. Bang of Jeremy Kyle off it :pac:

Obvious is obvious.

rafatoni

Pkiernan wrote: »

A lot of Irish really wish they were English, I reckon.

what you talkin about Guvnor

Yamanoto

Achasanai wrote: »

MOTD and live matches would have been the start of it.

Club like Everton had considerable support in Dublin from the 1920's onwards. Support for other English teams would also have long preceded MOTD.

Edenmoar

Any irish person who says “Do one” should be excecuted

Omackeral

Achasanai wrote: »

Not everyone's interest in football is going to see it week-in and week-out.

That's fair enough. I think it's fair to say the fella or girl going week-in and week-out is definitely more of a die hard though than someone sitting on a couch. So when someone derides a person for following LOI or their local team by saying ''who do you really support?'', they're sneering at an actual match-going fan and football without fans is nothing.

Omackeral

Avatar MIA wrote: »

So the thread is answered.

To a degree but then why not support Spain or Germany over Ireland? Why not support Kilkenny over Wexford in the hurling?

Avatar MIA

Edenmoar wrote: »

Any irish person who says “Do one” should be excecuted

And you can do one, an' all. You Pillock.

blade1

Omackeral wrote: »

To a degree but then why not support Spain or Germany over Ireland? Why not support Kilkenny over Wexford in the hurling?

Because you play for your school/club In the county and can progress to playing for your county.
Also no other countries have famous gaa players.

Avatar MIA

Omackeral wrote: »

To a degree but then why not support Spain or Germany over Ireland? Why not support Kilkenny over Wexford in the hurling?

Equally as obvious.

Vanishingly few Irish players played for those teams, and virtually absent from the TV up until late. Barcelona and RM have a growing following though, and second teams for a lot of Irish people.

The GAA have a good PR system and ever present in Irish media. And it's very county specific, and everyone is proud of their county.

Edenmoar

Avatar MIA wrote: »

And you can do one, an' all. You Pillock.

Jog on mate