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2018-2027 National Development Plan

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24567…18

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    #32
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-from-the-atlantic-corridor-to-20000-school-places-how-the-116bn-investment-in-irelands-future-will-be-spent-36609590.html

    Tomorrow's Indo makes a vague reference to the Atlantic corridor being included - we'll find out in full tomorrow.

    I wonder will it be the same atlantic corridor mentioned a decade ago


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    #33
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Viviana Colossal Tracker wrote: »
    If Limerick and Waterford are truly to be hubs, a fully upgraded type-2 DC N24 is a no brainer, right?

    The original Atlantic Corridor linked Limerick to Waterford via Cork. So M20, NRR and M25.


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    #34
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Did it also include Tuam to Letterkenny/Derry?


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    #35
    Masala
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Masala


    Anyone got a link to the report???? What does it say on Knock Airport--- I heard it mentioned on News this morning!


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    #36
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The Atlantic Corridor reference so far seems to be Tuam-Letterkenny, as Letterkenny and Sligo have been announced as regional hubs

    I'd imagine the N17 Knock-Tobercurry-Collooney and the N15 Ballybofey-Stranorlar for definite.


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    #37
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Projects included in the new Capital Plan:

    Inter urban roads:

    M20 Cork-Limerick + possible N40 North Ring Road
    N6 Galway Ring Road
    M7 Naas/Newbridge bypass upgrade (already under construction)
    N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange (already fully funded)
    N69 Listowel bypass (already fully funded)
    M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy
    M21 Limerick-Foynes
    N22 Ballyvourney-Macroom (already fully funded)
    N72/N73 Mallow relief road
    N59 Moycullen bypass (already fully funded)
    N25 New Ross bypass (already fully funded and under construction)
    M11 Gorey-Enniscorthy (already fully funded and under construction)

    Accessibility to the North West:

    N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin (already fully funded)
    N5 Westport-Turlough (already fully funded)
    N5 Ballaghaderreen-Scramoge
    N52 Ardee bypass (already fully funded)
    N2 Slane bypass
    N56 Dungloe-Glenties & Mountcharles-Inver (already fully funded)

    In addition, another bundle of projects have been reactivated for preappraisal and certain projects will be prioritised for inclusion:

    * N2 Clontibret-NI Border
    * N2 Ashbourne-Kilmoon Cross
    * N2 Ardee-Castleblayney
    * N3 Clonee-M50
    * N3 Virginia bypass
    * M4 Maynooth-Leixlip
    * N4 Mullingar-Longford
    * N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod
    * M11 M50 to Kilmacanogue
    * N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare
    * N13 Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass
    * N13/N56 Letterkenny relief road + DC upgarde
    * N14 Letterkenny-Lifford
    * N17 Knock-Collooney (encompassing Knock-Tobercurry/Tobercurry bypass/Tobercurry-Collooney)
    * N21 Abbeyfeale releif road
    * N21 Newcastlewest relief road
    * N24 Cahir to Limerick Junction
    * N24 Waterford to Cahir
    * N25 Waterford to Glenmore
    * M50 Eastern bypass Phase 1: South Port Access
    * N52 Kilbeggan to Tullamore


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    #38
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Breaking this down:

    Inter urban roads:

    These two are PPPs so I will omit these entirely:
    N25 New Ross bypass (already fully funded and under construction)
    M11 Gorey-Enniscorthy (already fully funded and under construction)

    This is the 4th time these have been announced, as part of Fianna Fail's 2nd PPP tranche, as part of the 2012-2016 plan, as part of the 2015-2022 plan and now the 2018-2027 plan.


    These 5 projects are part of the 2016-2022 plan and are fully funded under same.

    M7 Naas/Newbridge bypass upgrade (already under construction) - under construction, remainder of funding is ~€55m
    N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange (already fully funded) - 2019 start, 2021 finish, expected cost €100m
    N69 Listowel bypass (already fully funded) - to start before 2021, expected cost ~€30-40m
    N22 Ballyvourney-Macroom (already fully funded) - to start Q1 2020, expected cost €150-160m
    N59 Moycullen bypass (already fully funded) - to start 2021, expected cost €20m

    There is funding of approx €300m requried to finish these projects, all of which will be done before 2022.

    The following projects have funding in the 2016-2022 plan to get them to the "shovel ready stage". It's assumed this plan will fund their construction:

    M20 Cork-Limerick + possible N40 North Ring Road - approx €850-900m, should be ready to go around 2022 if fully funded
    N6 Galway Ring Road - will be shovel ready in 2021, approx cost €600m
    M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy - will be shovel ready by 2020/1, approx cost €160m
    M21 Limerick-Foynes - will be shovel ready by 2020/1, approx cost €250m
    N72/N73 Mallow relief road - will be shovel ready by 2021/2, approx cost €40-50m

    Total cost of the above is around €1.8-2bn

    Total cost of the inter urban section is €2.1-2.3bn.


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    #39
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Any idea what M50 Dublin Port south access this is?


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    #40
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Any idea what M50 Dublin Port south access this is?
    Connecting the South Port to the M50/Port Tunnel.


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    #41
    zmgakt7uw2dvfs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 87 ✭✭zmgakt7uw2dvfs


    marno21 wrote: »
    Breaking this down:

    N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange (already fully funded) - 2019 start, 2021 fi

    M20 Cork-Limerick + possible N40 North Ring Road - approx €850-900m, .

    How can a 100km plus full blown motorway cost only nine times more than Dunkettle? Either the M20 is very cheap, or Dunkettle is very expensive!


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    #42
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Viviana Colossal Tracker wrote: »
    How can a 100km plus full blown motorway cost only nine times more than Dunkettle? Either the M20 is very cheap, or Dunkettle is very expensive!
    Dunkettle is incredibly expensive and complex, given the amount of bridges and the traffic management required.


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    #43
    Shedite27
    Registered Users Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    marno21 wrote: »
    Dunkettle is incredibly expensive and complex, given the amount of bridges and the traffic management required.
    584ab0fd0cd36.jpg


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    #44
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Breaking down NW Accessibility:

    No PPP reannouncements here.

    In terms of what's funded under 2016-2022:

    N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin (already fully funded) - to start 2018, approx cost €100m
    N5 Westport-Turlough (already fully funded) - to start 2021, approx cost €130-140m
    N52 Ardee bypass (already fully funded) - to start 2018, approx cost €20m
    N56 Dungloe-Glenties & Mountcharles-Inver (already fully funded) - 2/8 parts complete, 1/8 under construction, 1/8 at tender and 4/8 at planning - expected remaining cost approx €60m.

    Total remaining for 2016-2022 schemes: Approx €300m

    N2 Slane bypass - should be shovel ready for 2022 barring objections, approx cost €50m
    N5 Ballaghaderreen-Scramoge - decision due July 2018, could start in 2020, approx cost €140m

    The Wildcard here is the A5, which is committed to but remains in an eternal state of limbo and could have border issues along with the lack of a Government in NI. I'll leave it out bar the €50m until 2019 which is already committed

    Total cost of accessibility to the North West: approx €550m


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    #45
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    marno21 wrote: »
    Connecting the South Port to the M50/Port Tunnel.

    I assume this means some sort of bridge/tunnel from the North side Port to the Pigeon House side of the Port?


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    #46
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The interesting part here is that there is €5.7bn allocated to National Roads and €900m allocated seperately to the M20, meaning that taking the above will cost around €1.7bn to do alongside the A5.

    Meaning there should be a balance of €4bn or so to progress other national road schemes. I'd expect a fair chunk of the below to also get done:

    * N2 Clontibret-NI Border
    * N2 Ashbourne-Kilmoon Cross
    * N2 Ardee-Castleblayney
    * N3 Clonee-M50
    * N3 Virginia bypass
    * M4 Maynooth-Leixlip
    * N4 Mullingar-Longford
    * N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod
    * M11 M50 to Kilmacanogue
    * N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare
    * N13 Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass
    * N13/N56 Letterkenny relief road + DC upgarde
    * N14 Letterkenny-Lifford
    * N17 Knock-Collooney (encompassing Knock-Tobercurry/Tobercurry bypass/Tobercurry-Collooney)
    * N21 Abbeyfeale releif road
    * N21 Newcastlewest relief road
    * N24 Cahir to Limerick Junction
    * N24 Waterford to Cahir
    * N25 Waterford to Glenmore
    * M50 Eastern bypass Phase 1: South Port Access
    * N52 Kilbeggan to Tullamore


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    #47
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Something along those lines yes, we haven't been told much else other than that, but it is part of the NTA Dublin Transport Strategy 2016-2035.


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    #48
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Are we still looking at 2+2 for the N24?


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    #49
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Are we still looking at 2+2 for the N24?
    2+2 with possibly some Type 1 approaching Waterford.


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    #50
    Benildus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    Anything on the N22 Killarney to Farranfore?


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    #51
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Benildus wrote: »
    Anything on the N22 Killarney to Farranfore?
    Pre appraisal in 2018, if it merits it will be added to Capital Plan. No movement on construction likely before 2023.


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    #52
    Donegal Storm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donegal Storm


    Haven't had a chance to look through the plan yet but are there completion dates listed for all these schemes or are they to continue at the current snails pace until the they're delayed again in the next downturn?


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    #53
    joujoujou
    Registered Users Posts: 13,499 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    Donegal Storm wrote: »
    [...] are there completion dates listed for all these schemes or are they to continue at the current snails pace until the they're delayed again in the next downturn?

    Very unlikely the government would give themselves deadlines for those schemes. Some of them (I really hope I'm wrong) look like a wishlist rather than a plan. ;)


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    #54
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Donegal Storm wrote: »
    Haven't had a chance to look through the plan yet but are there completion dates listed for all these schemes or are they to continue at the current snails pace until the they're delayed again in the next downturn?
    No timelines in the plan, but feel free to ask on any of the projects and I can give a timeline based on the info I have.


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    #55
    Gonzo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    The N3 Clonee to M50 really needs to happen, some terrible congestion there especially around Blanchardstown.


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    #56
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Reuben1210


    marno21 wrote: »
    No timelines in the plan, but feel free to ask on any of the projects and I can give a timeline based on the info I have.

    I'm interested in the M11/N11 provisions here. It is at a complete standstill past Greystones every morning by about 7:30.

    It seems they have a plan for where the M11 ends at Bray north to Motorway with three lanes to Kilmacanogue, but in my opinion, the three lanes needs to go past Greystones at least, and the remainder of the non-motorway section from there to Coynes Cross to be upgraded to Motorway to finally have this gap upgraded.

    Have you found any more specifics on this? Timeline/funding etc?


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    #57
    Donegal Storm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donegal Storm


    marno21 wrote: »
    No timelines in the plan, but feel free to ask on any of the projects and I can give a timeline based on the info I have.

    Well from a personal point of view the N2, N4 and N17 are the three I'd use most frequently. Wouldn't be surprised if the N2 was put on the back burner until Brexit is sorted but the emphasis on Sligo in the plan will hopefully mean the N4 is prioritised

    Also I see no mention of Tuam - Claremorris which was supposedly back on the table, has this been left out of the plan then?


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    #58
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    marno21 wrote: »
    Breaking down NW Accessibility:

    No PPP reannouncements here.

    In terms of what's funded under 2016-2022:

    N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin (already fully funded) - to start 2018, approx cost €100m
    N5 Westport-Turlough (already fully funded) - to start 2021, approx cost €130-140m
    N52 Ardee bypass (already fully funded) - to start 2018, approx cost €20m
    N56 Dungloe-Glenties & Mountcharles-Inver (already fully funded) - 2/8 parts complete, 1/8 under construction, 1/8 at tender and 4/8 at planning - expected remaining cost approx €60m.

    Total remaining for 2016-2022 schemes: Approx €300m

    N2 Slane bypass - should be shovel ready for 2022 barring objections, approx cost €50m
    N5 Ballaghaderreen-Scramoge - decision due July 2018, could start in 2020, approx cost €140m

    The Wildcard here is the A5, which is committed to but remains in an eternal state of limbo and could have border issues along with the lack of a Government in NI. I'll leave it out bar the €50m until 2019 which is already committed

    Total cost of accessibility to the North West: approx €550m

    As N5 Westport/Turlough is "fully funded", and as CPOs have been approved, why can it not be started before 2021?

    Very busy road to an important tourist centre.
    Also apart from America, the world's supply of Botox is exported along that road.


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    #59
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Gonzo wrote: »
    The N3 Clonee to M50 really needs to happen, some terrible congestion there especially around Blanchardstown.
    The congestion is often far worse everywhere else *except* the N3. The junctions as designed (and then upgraded) are still not fit for purpose though.


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    #60
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.businesspost.ie/news/road-tolls-likely-government-plans-increase-public-private-partnerships-409369

    Article in the SBP today (sorry about the paywall!) about the Government's relaxation on the use of PPPs which mean that more may be used for roads. They namedrop the M20 but that's fully funded in the NDP so I can't see that being one.

    However, there are a number of medium to large size projects that were omitted from the NDP which may be viable as PPPs. Viability as a tolled PPP is questionable but the N7, M11, M17/M18, and N25 PPPs would be a thought provoking model:

    Some (personal) suggestions of projects not funded in the NDP:

    N3 Kells-North of Cavan (2+2)
    N15 Sligo-Leitrim border (HQDC/2+2)
    N17 Tuam-Claremorris (2+2)
    N22 Ballincollig-Ovens (HQDC/motorway)
    N24 Limerick-Limerick Junction (HQDC + 2+2)
    N25 Midleton-Youghal (HQDC/motorway)
    M40 North Ring West (HQDC/motorway)
    M71 Cork-Inishannon (HQDC/motorway)

    In addition, not all of the big ticket N2, N17, N24 projects will be done from the exchequer in the NDP. Could be viable as PPPs


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    #61
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    This is a very ambitious plan and one that I am delighted to see laid out. However, the M20 and N24 and N4 schemes should take absolute priority.

    I really don’t see the need to upgrade the N52 between Tullamore and Kilbeggan. It is of a very good standard. The sections of N52 that really need improving are from Borrisokane to Birr and Delvin to Ardee.


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