Strokestown Mod Note in Post #4461

Sycamore Tree · 16-12-2018 9:26pm

I cant wait for the reconstruction on Crimetime!

pablo128 · 16-12-2018 9:28pm

end of the road wrote: »

they actually do understand it. however, when in general (forget about this particular bank) banks have not been seen to have been punished where they have been wreckless, then it's not surprising people will decide what is good for the goose is good for the gander. it's not right, but it is what it is .

I get your point in general, but in this case you have posters saying ' but but but the banks', when in this case the bank in question got no bailout. Then you get 'but but but the loyalists'. They could be but I've yet to see proof.

My point is the people are quick to point the finger but not so quick to actually help their neighbours. Forget about coming to burn a few vans at 4 in the morning, I'm talking about getting these people back on their feet, and help them keep the bank from the door. Surely some of their farming neighbours could have come in and given them advice how to maximise their business, no?

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:28pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Any proof they weren't?

So if there’s no proof then we assume they were? And even if they were they’re disqualified from working security? As if shady people or former IRA are never given security jobs this side of the border or the other side.

16-12-2018 9:29pm

Malcolm Tasty Salamander wrote: »

I'm well aware theyre called Garda Síochána I just had to dumb it down for a few people. I was merely pointing out that our irish police force should have the duty as opposed to hiring scum to carry out these types of evictions..

Gardai have enough to do with actual criminal matters, it is not up to the police force of the country to involve themselves in civil matters.
Gardai are not to be used as private security for banks.

backspin. · 16-12-2018 9:30pm

Ordinary man wrote: »

Would it have been better if it was dubs that were sent down to do the job? Would they have got a better reception from the locals?

Yes. Night and day. Bringing loyalist scum into the south to evict Irish people was a big mistake.

Gringo180 · 16-12-2018 9:31pm

Effects wrote: »

Don't pay your mortgage, you lose your house. Is that too simplistic?

Wait. What? Is this an Irish forum? Are you Irish? How on earth can you defend this, your a disgrace.

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:33pm

backspin. wrote: »

Yes. Night and day. Bringing loyalist scum into the south to evict Irish people was a big mistake.

Why would a Dutch bank care about the political ties of the security they hire? As I said above. Do u think former IRA scum are never given security jobs.

koheim · 16-12-2018 9:34pm

I am all for that people should pay their debts!, BUT in a modern country in 2018 this should not happen. 3 Elderly siblings that lived all their lives in on a farm. their parents before them, thrown out on the side of the road by foreign "security" people. That is more than bad optics, there must be a better way.

As a society you can't abandon people on the street because they made bad decision, where unlucky or maybe got sick. As a society we can't keep growing the gap between the rich and the poor. As a society violence from the authorities is 100% unacceptable.

i think this might be a important event, will be interesting to follow. And hopefully the media will cover it properly

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:35pm

Gringo180 wrote: »

Wait. What? Is this an Irish forum? Are you Irish? How on earth can you defend this, your a disgrace.

I’m Irish and I’ll defend it all day long. Banks or any private lender should have the right to unload non performing loans. Totally fair commercial practice.

Gringo180 · 16-12-2018 9:36pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I’m Irish and I’ll defend it all day long. Banks or any private lender should have the right to unload non performing loans. Totally fair commercial practice.

In this fashion? Are you for real?

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:37pm

koheim wrote: »

I am all for that people should pay their debts!, BUT in a modern country in 2018 this should not happen. 3 Elderly siblings that lived all their lives in on a farm. their parents before them, thrown out on the side of the road by foreign "security" people. That is more than bad optics, there must be a better way.

As a society you can't abandon people on the street because they made bad decision, where unlucky or maybe got sick. As a society we can't keep growing the gap between the rich and the poor. As a society violence from the authorities is 100% unacceptable.

i think this might be a important event, will be interesting to follow. And hopefully the media will cover it properly

So how would you have handled it if you were the bank? And is violence from private individuals is not also unacceptable?

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 16-12-2018 9:37pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Gardai have enough to do with actual criminal matters, it is not up to the police force of the country to involve themselves in civil matters.
Gardai are not to be used as private security for banks.

Jesus somebody get me a piece of chalk...

I'm aware that the guards cant be used as security firms, however they can be used if someone is refusing to leave the house as instructed. Which is much better than getting a few jumped up scumbags to beat the evictees up. Now is that much clearer? Shall i draw you a picture to illustrate?

Also, wouldn't it be a shame if our police force had to do some actual work outside fabricating speeding tickets and ruining whistleblowers' lives.

TCM · 16-12-2018 9:37pm

Sean.3516 wrote:

Why would a Dutch bank care about the political ties of the security they hire? As I said above. Do u think former IRA scum are never given security jobs.

What's the IRA got to do with this particular issue - nothing.

expectationlost · 16-12-2018 9:37pm

the_syco wrote: »

If the national banks went bust, you'd need to reply on foreign banks for loans and mortgages.

But why would a foreign bank loan you anything when the national bank went bust for doing just that?

KBC isn't a national Irish bank, however, so your point is not relevant in this case.

It seems the house & farm was put against a remortgage to expand the farm, and said farm was in the family for generations.

It's alleged that a "2020 white paper" for farming encouraged farmers to expand, and if this is true, there'll be more farm evictions in the coming months/years. How these will be handled, after the events today, shall be interesting.

is that EU Cap 2020 white paper ‘The Future of Food and Farming’. https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/cap-reform-post-2020-moves-one-step-closer-in-brussels/ or this Food Harvest 2020 from 2010 https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/foodindustrydevelopmenttrademarkets/agri-foodandtheeconomy/foodharvest2020/2020FoodHarvestEng240810.pdf

Guy:Incognito · 16-12-2018 9:38pm

end of the road wrote: »

neither would be fine. security shouldn't be involved in the actual eviction. they should only be able to do the basic security job after the eviction is finished.
evictions and similar should only be caried out by an arm of the gardai.

If people ****ed off out of property they haven't paid for of their own accord when the bank asked them, nevermind gathering up local vigilante scumbags, then nothing would be required.

h2005 · 16-12-2018 9:38pm

koheim wrote: »

I am all for that people should pay their debts!, BUT in a modern country in 2018 this should not happen. 3 Elderly siblings that lived all their lives in on a farm. their parents before them, thrown out on the side of the road by foreign "security" people. That is more than bad optics, there must be a better way.

As a society you can't abandon people on the street because they made bad decision, where unlucky or maybe got sick. As a society we can't keep growing the gap between the rich and the poor. As a society violence from the authorities is 100% unacceptable.

i think this might be a important event, will be interesting to follow. And hopefully the media will cover it properly

What should have been done?

Grayson · 16-12-2018 9:39pm

HamSarris wrote: »

It’s times like these when you realise how far removed boards.ie is from the real world.

The most common argument seems to be:

I’m happy for elderly people to be forcefully evicted by loyalist militia if it results in a percentage point decrease in my mortgage interest rate

I haven't seen anyone say that.

People are saying that if you get a loan, you are expected to pay it back. And if you don't there are consequences.

Evictions take a long time. It's not like you miss a payment and that's it. There's a long stage of negotiation and court dates.

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:39pm

Gringo180 wrote: »

In this fashion? Are you for real?

What’s a bank supposed to do with an unperforming loan? Just forget about it? I would rather have Gardaí carry out forced evictions rather than private security. But there is no excuse for assaulting the private security afterwards.

handlemaster · 16-12-2018 9:39pm

eagle eye wrote: »

You don't seem to get it. I don't think people would be quite so annoyed if this was done in a peaceful manner by people from this side of the border.
Sending in a bunch of thugs from Northern Ireland is going to infuriate a lot of people.

What would happen under a unitied ireland ? You cant work in the former republic and visa versa

gctest50 · 16-12-2018 9:41pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Why would a Dutch bank care about the political ties of the security they hire? As I said above. Do u think former IRA scum are never given security jobs.

Dutch ? A Flemish farmers association

In the core shareholders :

MRBB (part of the Flemish farmers' association) controls around 11%,

KBC Ancora controls 19%,

CERA (the largest cooperative in Wallonia) 3%

a group of industrialist families controls another 7%

16-12-2018 9:42pm

HamSarris wrote: »

It’s times like these when you realise how far removed boards.ie is from the real world.

The most common argument seems to be:

I’m happy for elderly people to be forcefully evicted by loyalist militia if it results in a percentage point decrease in my mortgage interest rate

G.B. Shaw: "Put an Irishman on the spit and you can always get another Irishman to turn him". Apt for this thread I think.

mulbot · 16-12-2018 9:43pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I'm sure KBC aren't employing 'heavies' themselves, its more they are employing a private security or repossession firm, and KBC have no control over who a private firm hires.

To say "KBC are bringing in loyalist paramilitaries to evict people" is a mistruth.

Rubbish-From time to time I sub-contract to a main contractor who has had to get myself and crew Garda vetted(at the requests of the clients) to allow us to work.

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:43pm

TCM wrote: »

What's the IRA got to do with this particular issue - nothing.

What I’m saying is that people wouldn’t be half worked up by the bank’s security were not former UVF. Why do we care that they were UVF. I’m no fan of the UVF but it’s got nothing to do with the reason they were there and the job they were doing.

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 16-12-2018 9:44pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

G.B. Shaw: "Put an Irishman on the spit and you can always get another Irishman to turn him". Apt for this thread I think.

The same people who condemn "dem dirty hippy protesters" for using violence are perfectly ok for it to be used when evicting people.

ohnonotgmail · 16-12-2018 9:44pm

Some gob****e has added this to the KBC Bank Wiki page.

KBC are the bank that initiated a high profile violent property repossession utilising ex UVF members in Strokestown, in County Roscommon in December 2018 [3]

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:45pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Dutch ? A Flemish farmers association

In the core shareholders :

MRBB (part of the Flemish farmers' association) controls around 11%,

KBC Ancora controls 19%,

CERA (the largest cooperative in Wallonia) 3%

a group of industrialist families controls another 7%

Apologies, I thought they were Dutch

Beechwoodspark · 16-12-2018 9:45pm

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I cant wait for the reconstruction on Crimetime!

All the fair city extras will be required

And rover the dog too

rn · 16-12-2018 9:46pm

A lot of speculation here on here.

Central roscommon does have a strong IRA under current. That part of Roscommon does have a strong traditional/conservative mindset that has taken a battering on a good few social and economic issues in last 10 years. So faith in civil structures of state would not be high.

There's a desire for hands on action to fight back against perceived lack of state support or sympathy for the ordinary citizen typical in these parts.

Evicting an old farming family from a house two weeks before Christmas by men in British registered vans was always likely to be a dangerous move.

None of that is an excuse.

Going to be difficult to secure arrests and convictions, I'd imagine there'll be a strong "Robin Hood" effect.

P_1 · 16-12-2018 9:46pm

Seemingly the "raid" for lack of a better term may have been led by Ben Gilroy and the rest of the loolahs leading the Irish Yellow Vest movement. This is what happens when you get the optics so wrong.

Beechwoodspark · 16-12-2018 9:47pm

P_1 wrote: »

Seemingly the "raid" for lack of a better term may have been led by Ben Gilroy and the rest of the loolahs leading the Irish Yellow Vest movement. This is what happens when you get the optics so wrong.

Ben of the family Gilroy you mean

gctest50 · 16-12-2018 9:50pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Apologies, I thought they were Dutch

I was more pointing out the "betrayed by their own " part :

MRBB (part of the Flemish farmers' association) controls around 11%,

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:50pm

rn wrote: »

A lot of speculation here on here.

Central roscommon does have a strong IRA under current. That part of Roscommon does have a strong traditional/conservative mindset that has taken a battering on a good few social and economic issues in last 10 years. So faith in civil structures of state would not be high.

There's a desire for hands on action to fight back against perceived lack of state support or sympathy for the ordinary citizen typical in these parts.

Evicting an old farming family from a house two weeks before Christmas by men in British registered vans was always likely to be a dangerous move.

None of that is an excuse.

Going to be difficult to secure arrests and convictions, I'd imagine there'll be a strong "Robin Hood" effect.

A pity. Unacceptable they can be that badly beaten and little chance of justice.
A bit of law and order needed in Roscommon then

Guy:Incognito · 16-12-2018 9:50pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you remember when the banks took out loans and couldn't repay them?
Well I do and guess who paid their loans, me and you and every other tax payer in the country. They did get kicked out of their buildings.
So an ordinary man isn't able to repay and you have no sympathy for him and back the banks?

Say the banks had shut up shop all of a sudden and everyone in the country lost every penny they had on deposit. What would people have said then? All the "poor pensioners " people love to drone on about in these threads. Ones whod paid off their mortgages and had life savings in the bank left with nothing when the bank shuts down. Then what? And the thousands of people suddenly not paying tax and claiming the dole instead. Sure **** it, the country can borrow more to fill the gap.

Sure we don't need banks anyway.........

Plus. Most of the money has been or is being paid back. Never a mention of that form the permanently outraged.

Larbre34 · 16-12-2018 9:51pm

No more direct the democracy than a lynch mob.

Na Veistí Buí

enricoh · 16-12-2018 9:51pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

What I’m saying is that people wouldn’t be half worked up by the bank’s security were not former UVF. Why do we care that they were UVF. I’m no fan of the UVF but it’s got nothing to do with the reason they were there and the job they were doing.

Why do we care that they were uvf? seriously? What age are u?

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:52pm

gctest50 wrote: »

I was more pointing out the "betrayed by their own " part :

MRBB (part of the Flemish farmers' association) controls around 11%,

But I think this overlooks the point. Commercial lenders do not have to put up with i performing loans and they shouldn’t if they wish to turn a profit. Lenders aren’t charities.

twowheelsonly · 16-12-2018 9:54pm

blueythebear wrote: »

Gardai cannot execute an Order for Possession. They cannot interfere in what is a civil matter plus the perception would be that the Gardai are acting as private securty for the Banks.

They can execute a Debtors warrant. They can also assist with a Distress Order. Why did the bank not go down this route ?

the_syco wrote: »

Said security firm was acting on behalf of the bank who had gotten an eviction order from the Irish court.

=-=

This eviction, and the high profile eviction in Dublin both used a Northern Irish security firm to evict people. It'll be interesting to see how future evictions are handled, as it seems that people don't understand that if you can't pay, leave the house when you're told to do so.

Acting on behalf of the bank is fair enough but who gives them the power to physically manhandle people ? If somebody was seriously injured or (stretching it here a bit.....) even killed where would the buck stop ?
Security personnel may use force to prevent injury to themselves or others. They cannot instigate the use of force and just grab random people and throw them out. That applies whether it's in a nightclub in Limerick or Dublin or a farm in Strokestown. A High Court order does not mean that they can ignore the laws of the land.

NIMAN wrote: »

I'm sure KBC aren't employing 'heavies' themselves, its more they are employing a private security or repossession firm, and KBC have no control over who a private firm hires.

To say "KBC are bringing in loyalist paramilitaries to evict people" is a mistruth.

KBC pays the bill. The buck stops with KBC. Ignorance is not a defence.

expectationlost · 16-12-2018 9:55pm

P_1 wrote: »

Seemingly the "raid" for lack of a better term may have been led by Ben Gilroy and the rest of the loolahs leading the Irish Yellow Vest movement. This is what happens when you get the optics so wrong.

yeah they can hardly complain about violent evictions now

gctest50 · 16-12-2018 9:55pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ben of the family Gilroy you mean

Hardly Peeeeple b4 Profit or one of those other showers that pumped those three dry of money ?

Heard of similar with the Corrib gas line, one or two got leached until they were broke

expectationlost · 16-12-2018 9:56pm

how many years has there been a payment issue?

Panthro · 16-12-2018 9:56pm

Fcuk the banks, back the farmers.

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:57pm

enricoh wrote: »

Why do we care that they were uvf? seriously? What age are u?

If it is shown that these specific men have committed murder or some serious violent crime or that they were not licensed security then I’ll say they shouldn’t have been there. I don’t think you would care if they were former IRA or any other group of scumbags that agree with you politically

johnnyskeleton · 16-12-2018 9:57pm

Patww79 wrote: »

But getting the likes of that to come into our country to force people out? They should have been chopped up the minute they came near the property.

As long as the UK is still part of the EU, they have to award the contract to the cheapest consortium, regardless of which member state they are from.

the_syco · 16-12-2018 9:57pm

P_1 wrote: »

Honestly I wouldn't think they would do.

From watching the video and seeing how the person said they were British, combined with their appearance (he was somewhat round and had the sort of moustache you'd associate with a traditional DUP voter) I doubt hed have had the intelligence to conduct such a deception

I suppose. Robbing banks, making pipe bombs and smuggling diesel is more the republican angle.

Malcolm Tasty Salamander wrote: »

I was merely pointing out that our irish police force should have the duty as opposed to hiring scum to carry out these types of evictions.

Again, it's not the Garda who do this, it's the Sheriffs.

mikeym wrote: »

Im sure those lads would spit on the tricolour if they seen one.

Both sides would probably spit on the tricolour, as the tricolour symbolises the peace between the republicans and loyalists.

Fann Linn wrote: »

Any proof they weren't?

Whoever claimed they were loyalists either post up the proof, or we'll ignore the claim.

end of the road wrote: »

then it's not surprising people will decide what is good for the goose is good for the gander. it's not right, but it is what it is .

We never bailed out KBC.

Said neighbours stayed away when the eviction took place, as there was Gardai keeping the peace. I'd wonder if this plan to attack the security personal started Saturday night in a pub?

koheim wrote: »

thrown out on the side of the road by foreign "security" people. That is more than bad optics, there must be a better way.

The better way would be to leave when the courts told them to do so.

Oh, wait, that already happened, and they ignored the courts instructions.

Gringo180 wrote: »

In this fashion? Are you for real?

What other fashion is there?

expectationlost wrote: »

is that EU Cap 2020 white paper ‘The Future of Food and Farming’. https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/cap-reform-post-2020-moves-one-step-closer-in-brussels/ or this Food Harvest 2020 from 2010 https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/foodindustrydevelopmenttrademarkets/agri-foodandtheeconomy/foodharvest2020/2020FoodHarvestEng240810.pdf

Unknown. The poster didn't expand, thus I said alleged.
But on page 41 of https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/foodindustrydevelopmenttrademarkets/agri-foodandtheeconomy/foodharvest2020/2020FoodHarvestEng240810.pdf it mentions that "the dairy sector in the medium to long term are positive", and that "the industry at all levels must engage on alternative options for financing the expansion in capacity to process anticipated volume growth" would seem to mean that farmers should expand their capacity to process the anticipated volume? Fairly sure the price of milk then tanked.

eagle eye · 16-12-2018 9:57pm

pablo128 wrote:

You mean that the crowd(including former members of An Garda Siochana) would have simply left if a group of lads from Inner City Dublin turned up instead? Not a hope.

Obviously your reading skills are not up to scratch.

mulbot · 16-12-2018 9:58pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

As long as the UK is still part of the EU, they have to award the contract to the cheapest consortium, regardless of which member state they are from.

No they do not.

Omackeral · 16-12-2018 9:58pm

P_1 wrote: »

Is challenging the authority of the state from time to time such a bad idea though?

end of the road thanked this yet cries his eyes out anytime there's scumbags being scumbags saying ''well the law should be enforced''. Hypocritical AF.

joe swanson · 16-12-2018 9:59pm

The amount of people (scum) on social media promoting and encouraging this is disgusting. What is so hard to understand that if you don't pay your mortgage or loan this is what happens. Being evicted does not condone attempted murder. Scumbags

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:59pm

Panthro wrote: »

Fcuk the banks, back the farmers.

So what? Banks should just forget about all loans and start giving away money from now on? I don’t think it would catch on. Might be lack of a profit incentive

eagle eye · 16-12-2018 9:59pm

johnnyskeleton wrote:

As long as the UK is still part of the EU, they have to award the contract to the cheapest consortium, regardless of which member state they are from.

This is the sort of thing that could lead to Irexit

Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

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Strokestown Mod Note in Post #4461