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Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

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    #242
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,473 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    HamSarris wrote: »

    I’m happy for elderly people to be forcefully evicted by loyalist militia if it results in a percentage point decrease in my mortgage interest rate

    You are intentionally misrepresenting what is being said.

    Forget the "loyalists", that is irrelevant to the core point.

    A loan is a loan. If you can't repay then the assets you offered up as protection to the bank against them granting you the loan are siezed.

    It's a very simple system really.


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    #243
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    P_1 wrote: »
    Is challenging the authority of the state from time to time such a bad idea though?

    We have courts and a legal system for that...resorting to thuggery when you don't like the decision cannot be tolerated or the place becomes another version of Somalia


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    #244
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    tigerboon wrote: »
    If that's the case fair enough. The issue is hiring loyalist goons to do their dirty work. Are you ok with scum, who hate us southerners, being paid to assault our citizens? Have you no shame?

    Couldn’t care less really where they’re from- you’re not going to be dealing with high society in this instances- that’s why most of us pay back or make an effort to pay back what we borrowed. You sign the dotted line and that’s what you agree in exchange for money


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    #245
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,754 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    archer22 wrote: »
    The makey uppy excuse (to garner sympathy) is that they were attacking loyalist paramilitaries :rolleyes:

    The reality is they were attacking an IRISH HIGH COURT order which granted the repossession.

    Its a challenge to the authority of the state and nothing else.
    yeah because its not known that paramilitaries are involved in security business


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    #246
    Ordinary man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭Ordinary man


    tigerboon wrote: »
    If that's the case fair enough. The issue is hiring loyalist goons to do their dirty work. Are you ok with scum, who hate us southerners, being paid to assault our citizens? Have you no shame?

    Would it have been better if it was dubs that were sent down to do the job? Would they have got a better reception from the locals?


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    #247
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    You are intentionally misrepresenting what is being said.

    Forget the "loyalists", that is irrelevant to the core point.

    A loan is a loan. If you can't repay than the assets you offered up as protection to the bank against them granting you the loan are siezed.

    It's a very simple system really.

    It’s the very foundation of borrowing. Without it the vast majority of us couldn’t afford to live in the houses we are in


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    #248
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    tigerboon wrote: »
    If that's the case fair enough. The issue is hiring loyalist goons to do their dirty work. Are you ok with scum, who hate us southerners, being paid to assault our citizens? Have you no shame?

    An ex garda making some attempt to stay there after it went to court ?


    Try this :

    get pulled for something and ignore all the post you get

    It will eventually go to a bench warrant, when the gardai show up, try telling them you're not going

    post up results here :)


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    #249
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    no details of the court case would like to see how long this case has been going on


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    #250
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    handlemaster wrote: »
    no details of the court case would like to see how long this case has been going on

    Exactly, facts usually very different from the hype. This type of outcome doesn’t come about overnight or without all other avenues having been exhausted.


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    #251
    JCJCJC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC


    tigerboon wrote: »
    If that's the case fair enough. The issue is hiring loyalist goons to do their dirty work. Are you ok with scum, who hate us southerners, being paid to assault our citizens? Have you no shame?

    Good to know there’s no sectarian hatred south of the Border, thank God.


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    #252
    h2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭h2005


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Kermit.de.frog wrote:
    Don't see the issue. The bank is perfectly entitled to take control of the property.
    These people took out a loan.
    They could not pay it back.
    Non story.
    Do you remember when the banks took out loans and couldn't repay them?
    Well I do and guess who paid their loans, me and you and every other tax payer in the country. They did get kicked out of their buildings.
    So an ordinary man isn't able to repay and you have no sympathy for him and back the banks?

    The Irish tax payer didn’t bail out KBC. So unless you pay your taxes in Belgium that post is total rubbish.


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    #253
    the world wonders
    Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭the world wonders


    archer22 wrote: »
    The makey uppy excuse (to garner sympathy) is that they were attacking loyalist paramilitaries :rolleyes:

    The reality is they were attacking an IRISH HIGH COURT order which granted the repossession.

    Its a challenge to the authority of the state and nothing else.
    Surely unregulated private security forces are a challenge to the authority of the state?


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    #254
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,289 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    If people can't/won't pay off what they owe then banks do have to get their money back but bringing lads who identify as British from another jurisdiction and manhandling elderly people is not the way to do it.

    Emotions always run high in cases like this when neighbours of the people being evicted gather at the scene and yer man calling himself a Brit was like throwing petrol on a fire.

    I feel sorry for the dog but it was no harm to give Lizzie Windsors fan club a few slaps.


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    #255
    JCJCJC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Was it some branch of the Ra who showed up around 5 am this morning to dole out the beatings?

    Ah no. ‘‘Twas the girl guides. They are well known for keeping baseball bats handy for emergencies.


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    #256
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    These people took out a loan.

    They could not pay it back.

    Don't see the issue. The bank is perfectly entitled to take control of the property.

    Non story.


    There are a number of issues. One issue is that people acting for the bank used force to remove people from a property. This is not legal. The Gardaí did not intervene because it was private property. This is not a correct interpretation of the law or their powers. A large group of people then came back and committed multiple serious offences including assault and arson. This is actually a fairly big story which ideally should see dozens being prosecuted in court.


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    #257
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    archer22 wrote: »
    We have courts and a legal system for that...resorting to thuggery when you don't like the decision cannot be tolerated or the place becomes another version of Somalia

    We have them yes, however unfortunately quite a lot of people have lost faith in the courts and legal system. What does one do in such circumstances. Not condoning but just asking the question


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    #258
    0cp71eyxkb94qf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 198 ✭✭0cp71eyxkb94qf


    HamSarris wrote: »
    It’s times like these when you realise how far removed boards.ie is from the real world.

    The most common argument seems to be:

    I’m happy for elderly people to be forcefully evicted by loyalist militia if it results in a percentage point decrease in my mortgage interest rate

    Under the veil of anonymity, i would guess a good few British people post on boards.ie and therefore they would endorse these scumbags like their security services did during the troubles.

    In other words, brits gonna brit.


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    #259
    blueythebear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭blueythebear


    I don't think that this whole scenario is very difficult to figure out...

    i) the owners of the farm borrowed from the Bank and did not pay them back as per the contract
    ii) the Bank brought the borrowers to court and got an order for possession
    iii) the Sheriff obtained possession and several people had to be forcibly removed
    iv) Security guards were put in place to protect the property
    v) a bunch of people decided to retake the property despite the fact that it was subject to a court order.

    It's simply a criminal act to do what the 70 strong mob did and the Gardai will have to arrest people for it. They should be charged with assault and locked up.

    Nothing about this scenario has anything to do with Bank bailouts as KBC did not get bailed out by this State. It does not matter that the security guys were from the North. With the lunatic fringe heavily involved in anti eviction / anti bank rhetoric, no Irish security firm will do this work so there's no choice but to get guys in from elsewhere.


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    #260
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    If people can't/won't pay off what they owe then banks do have to get their money back but bringing lads who identify as British from another jurisdiction and manhandling elderly people is not the way to do it.

    Emotions always run high in cases like this when neighbours of the people being evicted gather at the scene and yer man calling himself a Brit was like throwing petrol on a fire.

    I feel sorry for the dog but it was no harm to give Lizzie Windsors fan club a few slaps.

    What would you do? Send in cuddly kittens with notes asking them nicely to leave?


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    #261
    0cp71eyxkb94qf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 198 ✭✭0cp71eyxkb94qf


    road_high wrote: »
    What would you do? Send in cuddly kittens with notes asking them nicely to leave?

    You evict them like human beings and if they refuse to leave then you get the IRISH police to remove them. These thugs assaulted the evictees and they were suitably taught a lesson. Whoever hired this firm of loyalist scum knew exactly of their methods and hired them on this basis. Just desserts.


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    #262
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,986 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    archer22 wrote: »
    The makey uppy excuse (to garner sympathy) is that they were attacking loyalist paramilitaries

    The reality is they were attacking an IRISH HIGH COURT order which granted the repossession.

    Its a challenge to the authority of the state and nothing else.

    it's not possible for it to be an attack on a court order given one cannot attack a court order. there was also no challenge to the authority of the state given to my knowledge at least, no actual state officials such as a gard or judge, were attacked.
    hired in individuals, members of a private security firm, were attacked, however, i would find it hard to believe or except that a private security firm could be considered "the state," especially officials of the state. if otherwise, then my opinion would be that we would be heading into territory that would not be a good territory to visit. also, from what is contained on the thread at least, it seems the members of this private security firm were in no way innocent in terms of their behaviour?
    so therefore, i would suggest that the state or it's authority, and the court, have in no way been challenged.
    road_high wrote: »
    Do you think after obviusly a very long time of non engagement with the said bank for non payment of a loan they'd be sending people around to read them a bedtime story?
    They choose not go without a fight, can hardly protest when the softly softly aproach comes to an end.

    if we were talking about the gardai, then yes . hired private security on the other hand, no . they can complain.
    HamSarris wrote: »
    It’s times like these when you realise how far removed boards.ie is from the real world.

    The most common argument seems to be:

    I’m happy for elderly people to be forcefully evicted by loyalist militia if it results in a percentage point decrease in my mortgage interest rate

    what worries me more so then one holding that view, is their belief that the rates would actually decrease if they got their way. my personal view is that may not be so likely.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #263
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Was it some branch of the Ra who showed up around 5 am this morning to dole out the beatings?


    Probably just the same cop who beat up the two men last Saturday night in Castlerea.


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    #264
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    RIP to the two dogs

    As for the men in black not so tough now are we


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    #265
    blueythebear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭blueythebear


    end of the road wrote: »
    it's not possible for it to be an attack on a court order given one cannot attack a court order. there was also no challenge to the authority of the state given to my knowledge at least, no actual state officials such as a gard or judge, were attacked.
    hired in individuals, members of a private security firm, were attacked, however, i would find it hard to believe or except that a private security firm could be considered "the state," especially officials of the state. if otherwise, then my opinion would be that we would be heading into territory that would not be a good territory to visit. also, from what is contained on the thread at least, it seems the members of this private security firm were in no way innocent in terms of their behaviour?
    so therefore, i would suggest that the state or it's authority, and the court, have in no way been challenged.


    if we were talking about the gardai, then yes . hired private security on the other hand, no . they can complain.



    what worries me more so then one holding that view, is their belief that the rates would actually decrease if they got their way. my personal view is that may not be so likely.

    Gardai cannot execute an Order for Possession. They cannot interfere in what is a civil matter plus the perception would be that the Gardai are acting as private securty for the Banks.


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    #266
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,986 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    gctest50 wrote: »
    An ex garda making some attempt to stay there after it went to court ?


    Try this :

    get pulled for something and ignore all the post you get

    It will eventually go to a bench warrant, when the gardai show up, try telling them you're not going

    post up results here


    not a comparible situation. the gardai are the legitimate enforcers of the state.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #267
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,528 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    archer22 wrote:
    We have courts and a legal system for that...resorting to thuggery when you don't like the decision cannot be tolerated or the place becomes another version of Somalia
    You don't seem to get it. I don't think people would be quite so annoyed if this was done in a peaceful manner by people from this side of the border.
    Sending in a bunch of thugs from Northern Ireland is going to infuriate a lot of people.


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    #268
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Can see the point of not expecting to keep a house indefinitely without paying your mortgage but this method of repossession is pretty repugnant.

    And pretty shocking to see our own Gardai standing idly by while alleged loyalist thugs operate like that.

    And not only that but it's just going to unleash extreme reactions like last night.


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    #269
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    eagle eye wrote: »
    You don't seem to get it. I don't think people would be quite so annoyed if this was done in a peaceful manner by people from this side of the border.
    Sending in a bunch of thugs from Northern Ireland is going to infuriate a lot of people.

    You mean that the crowd(including former members of An Garda Siochana) would have simply left if a group of lads from Inner City Dublin turned up instead? Not a hope.


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    #270
    JCJCJC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    RIP to the two dogs

    As for the men in black not so tough now are we

    The cost of the security, which could include the vans, dogs, 24-hour presence etc will all come off the bottom line as collection costs, so ultimately the three former occupiers could pay for the whole lot from any money left over from a sale when the loan is taken off the sale proceeds, therefore the baseball bat artists mightn’t have done them as big a favour as they thought.


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    #271
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,986 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    blueythebear wrote: »
    Gardai cannot execute an Order for Possession. They cannot interfere in what is a civil matter plus the perception would be that the Gardai are acting as private securty for the Banks.

    agreed, however we need to change from the use of private hire goons. if the gardai can't do it, then some sort of other state force should be set up. they can act in relation to all matters of civilian enforcement. but the reliance on hired goons needs to go.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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